hey all, this is 2 questions in one, thanks in advance for your input!

first question- i've heard that it's very good to get 30 minutes of unprotected sun exposure per day for vitamin D. i go for a walk or run outside nearly every day for 30 mins. to 60+ mins. i havne't been wearing sunblock and don't get burned in this short amount of time. but as the summer gets closer i am getting a little concerned about getting burned, and all those skin cancer PSAs and spreads in magazines don't help. is it better to use sunblock and not get as much vitamin D, or what? i've also heard that raw fooders are much less prone to skin cancer b/c the SAD diet creates the sort of toxic environment that can cause the UV rays to have negative effects, but the raw diet has less toxins...or something like that...can anyone explain this to me or tell me if this is correct? thanks1

also, do you take a multi vitamin? are there any raw ones out there? i want to get my vitamin b-12 in, but i've stopped taking my multi (along w/ my iron supplements) since going 100% raw. i haven't had any negative side effects that i can think of but i do still think the b-vitamins are important and i don't want to be lacking. thanks!

I also don't use sunblock and try to get at least 30 minutes of sun everyday. I have super fair skin and haven't had problems yet. As long you don't get burned you should be fine. According to my understanding, the only way for your body to utilize vitamin D is via sun exposure and not via supplementation contrary to what many people claim.

Also, the reason raw foodists are not as prone to illness and disease is because their bodies are more alkaline due to eating a diet that is high in alkaline forming foods (all raw veggies, nuts and fruits pretty much). I bet if you compare the PH levels of a raw foodist to a SAD eater, you'll find that the raw foodist has a healthy PH and the SAD eater has an acidic PH value. Best way to obtain a healthy PH value is by eating raw foods as well as detoxifying your body regularly. When your PH is between 6.7 to 7 your body is able to fight disease and it is not very likely that you get skin cancer or any other illness.

For B-12, it would be best to take it in liquid form as pills don't really do that much..I am still looking for a good reliable source for it.

I don't take any vitamin supplements currently, only minerals.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2007 02:48AM by CherryBlossom.

i don't really have an answer to your question, but i have a statement...

since i broke my leg a month ago, i have made sure to get at least an hour of sun each day... most of my sun is filtered through a meshy shade, but i get plenty enough to burn LOL...

I acutlaly get several hours a day of this indirect light for the purpose of healing quickly..

i put sunscreen on my kids who like to torture themselves with 8 hours or more of direct sunlight.. and i dont use anything "natura" i use banana boat..

i took non raw supplements sfor about a month and relized something felt VERY wrong... and threw them out, as a result i don't give my kids vitamins either... hubby always is taking a supplement ( and switching brands etc instead of reazling they are ALL worthless IMO LOL)...

i don't think i answered any of your questions, but i did get the chance to talk about my favorite subject.. my family! hee hee

Love and Light

Tiffntwins

`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.´¯`•...¸><((((º>

SWIM FREE FISHES!

I might get knocked for this but this is my true answer to help you see the bad logic of you question.

Do you use air block
Do you use water block
Do you use food block
Do you use "love" block
Do you use laugh block
Do you use exersice block
Do you use sleep block

Thats probably enough to get the jist of it.

Look at my picture under Juicing is totally natural
I lived in and ate sun for hours a day months at a time. It was the biggest part of my "diet".
100% natural
elnatural

The only true "sunblock" is a tan.

That is the purpose of a tan.

If you'd like to develop this natural sunblock, start by tanning 5 minutes per side for a week, then increase by 2 or 3 minutes per day until you reach the desired amount of daily sun exposure. You will then have a true "sunblock!"

I believe commercial sunblock only prevents the skin from turning red, which is in fact Nature's warning signal that you've had too much sun for your level of pigmentation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2007 07:50PM by learningtofly.

There is no such thing as sunblock. Even the best sunscreens only filter.

A deep tan will provide only protection of factor 3-4, you can still get damage.

Burning is not the only marker of damage. You can get plenty of damage before you burn. There are instruments sensitive enough to measure the kinks your DNA gets from sun exposure even for one exposure lasting less than 10 minutes. Even the darkest pigmented people get them. They just don't get as much damage as the palest people.

Such kinks in the DNA are not always repaired properly. Even in the best circumstances only 99.9999% of the damage will be repaired.

Just five minutes exposure per day is enough to keep the enzymes elevated in your skin that break down collagen.

I would absolutely not want to have the skin of many raw foodists who are 10 or more years younger than I am, to say nothing of those my age and older. They have accumulated a great deal of damage.

The ones in their early 20s usually still look good, though. But if they keep it up, no.

We get the faces we deserve as we get older!

thank you so much for your replies. i can't respond in detail right now because i'm at work, but i didn't want anyone to think i started this thread and then forgot about it. i will reply later!

thanks again, i am learning so much from all of you. elnatural, i loved your answer, it really made me think!

so true!!i was wondering about this also bc i exercise with my sister riding bikes early in the morning, around ten,, and we are having so much fun that we lose track of time and end up spending up to 5 or 6 hours in the sun! im fair skinned 2,, i used 2 b olive skinned wen i was a kid, but not now,, neways, im burned!! and it hurts, only wen,, get this,, i go out in the sun,, it dosent hurt wen i touch it just wen i go back in the sun lol :p o well i cant give up my exercise or the time wen i do it, so i just hope my skin will toughen up

hey everyone, thanks again for your input. i'm brand new to raw and in the past few weeks i've basically started questioning everything i used to believe! it's awesome but confusing at the same time, lol.

CherryBlossom, thanks for mentioning the alkaline thing- that's what i was trying to think of but i couldn't remember it exactly. this makes more sense than what i was trying to say!

i read on shazzie.com (love her journals!) the raw foodists don't burn nearly as easily as those who eat standard types of diets. i'm not sure why this is, but have you guys found this? i've always burned pretty easily and i also just moved to the west coast where it's sunnier and hotter. but with all the skin cancer hype and people being diagnosed younger and younger nowadays, i started thinking about whether people in ancient cultures, or even earlier times in the modern era, used to get skin cancer. i really don't think they did, although i'm not sure. and people used to be out in the sun a lot more. but their diets were more natural and unprocessed and maybe this was their defense against skin cancer and sunburns.


elnatural_1, love the answer! as i said before, this really made me think about "sunblock" and how ridiculous of a concept it is!

so arugula, i'm guessing you do use sunblock/sunscreen then? do you use one of those natural/organic ones? i guess i'm sort of wondering about the chemicals in traditional sunscreens and how that could effect the body...

i also recently read "living green" by Greg Horn, the founder of Garden of Life, and he is adamently against sunscreen and refuses to put reglar sunscreen on his kids b/c of the chemicals in it. it's a really cool and useful book for anyone looking for a quick read, it made me think about the way i live day-to-day and how i can change to become more environment-friendly and healthy!

anyway...it's good to get the ideas flowing, thanks people!

[arugula, i'm guessing you do use sunblock/sunscreen then? do you use one of those natural/organic ones? i guess i'm sort of wondering about the chemicals in traditional sunscreens and how that could effect the body... ]

The "organic" ones are not really organic. They use a lot of commercial synthetics. In addition, they are not very protective and often unstable, they break down when UV light shines on them.

There are a few UV filters that penetrate the skin: the ones with low molecular weight and fat solubility. You can avoid those. Mainly it's benzophenone-3 that has gotten the bad press. It's also known as oxybenzone. You will sometimes see that one in the ingredients list of the "natural" sunscreens. That's the one to avoid if you are afraid of the chemicals.

The newer filters block out UVA as well and they have high molecular weights so they will not penetrate the skin. They are also completely stable when light shines on them.


[i started thinking about whether people in ancient cultures, or even earlier times in the modern era, used to get skin cancer. i really don't think they did, although i'm not sure. and people used to be out in the sun a lot more. but their diets were more natural and unprocessed and maybe this was their defense against skin cancer and sunburns.]

1. they lived at latitudes more appropriate to their skin type.
2. they died a lot sooner. Most people died in the 40s or earlier until relatively recently.
3. Yes they did sustain damage. But not nearly as much as say a caucasian 60 yo living in Florida or Australia.
4. they did not have this huge hole in the ozone layer that lets more of the damaging rays get through.


[raw foodists don't burn nearly as easily as those who eat standard types of diets. i'm not sure why this is]

Yes, this would be true if they were eating lots of highly colored f+v. After digestion, some of the pigment molecules get into your dermis and epidermis and provide not only antioxidant protection but also some filtering and in addition some damage control aside from antioxidant properties. But not as much as you might like, at most a factor of 4 and not 30 or 60 which is what you would need to stay relatively undamaged, depending on where you live, what your skin type is, and how highly you are exposed.

By all means get as much protection from your food as you can. But if you are going to be out and about all day, also use other means of protection, too.

i know it sounds old fashioned, but really clothing can be a very good filter for UV....

most of those people on national geographic expeditions aren't wearing sphaghetti strap tank tops and daisy dukes... they are wearing short sleeve ( to the elbow) khaki shirts with two layers ( tshirt underneath) and pants ( or knee length shorts) and a WIDE brimmed hats to keep the sun off them... is it for UV protection? i dunno, but i think that type of dress is intended to be functional and that covers a wide range from bug protection, small animal attacks, and to keep the sun "off" them....

Another thought is if you do a google search you can also find clothing that is designed to allow less UV light to filter down to the skin ( mostly marketed towards skin cancer survivors or people who are prone to it)

just a thought

Love and Light

Tiffntwins

`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.´¯`•...¸><((((º>

SWIM FREE FISHES!

In response to the raw supplements question: There is a couple companies that have many supplements that could be considered raw, or at least raw-er than most... Megafoods ( [www.megafood.com] ) recently started processing their supplements in a process they call "cold fusion", all their nutrients are derived from food or fermented with foods that contain a lot of whatever nutrient (eg c's with citrus and peppers) so the co-factors and naturally occuring substances you would find in food are all present. And all done at under 100 or so degrees, and they have assured me they are all enzymatically active. Their iron (blood builder) is great, you can take it on an empty stomach cuz it's vegetable iron. Call the company about their vit D if you want to try their multi or Bone formula, I know some of their D comes from lanolin but not sure which products.
Also Healthforce Nutritionals ( [healthforce.com] ), many of their supplements are raw, and vitamineral green, a green powder, is their answer to a multi vitamin. I work in a vitamin department, so I'm around vitamins all day, and get lots of freebies, but I don't take most of em cuz I think they're largely uneccissary if you eat correctly. Vitamins are supposed to come from food, and food is fun to eat, I'm sure everyone here agrees with that As far as sunscreen, don't usually wear it unless I'm going to be in midday sun for more than a couple hours, and I am very fair. I like Aubrey, they make non- micronized titanium dioxide sunscreen without a bunch of garbage in it. Oh, and Arugala, how'd you get so smart???

I make my own sunblock and (for the past three years) have found it works great - but has to be reapplied after swimming.

Not much toxicity in it and I only use it occasionally, but get other ppl to use it and they like it too.






Tiffany said: i put sunscreen on my kids who like to torture themselves with 8 hours or more of direct sunlight.. and i dont use anything "natura" i use banana boat..
I used to use that on my kids but I think it has artificial scent added, which is sooo toxic. I think there are better ones around.




Fuzzysox! - ouch!!!!!! be kind to your skin!

aww crap i got sun poisoning, i spent4 hours out today and now i feel like barfing :p guess i better sart applying the sun block :[ i hav aubrey organics brand is that ok 2 use? nebody kno..

Aubrey has a good reputation, even purists have recommended it to me.

[www.aubrey-organics.com]

No, Aubrey does not have a good reputation. He routinely adds synthetics that are not listed on the label and fails to include ingredients in the formulations that are listed on the label. He has received a number of warning letters from the FDA.

Good reputation for sunscreen: L'Oreal Anthelios formulations. They are the best in the world.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, Aubrey does not have a good reputation. He
> routinely adds synthetics that are not listed on
> the label and fails to include ingredients in the
> formulations that are listed on the label. He has
> received a number of warning letters from the
> FDA.
>
> Good reputation for sunscreen: L'Oreal Anthelios
> formulations. They are the best in the world.


Where did you get this info, arugula, cuz several concerned ppl have told me Aubrey makes pure stuff! They definitely have a good reputation. Whether they really are good or not is another thing. Would love to be able to read more about what you know.......thnx

[cuz several concerned ppl have told me Aubrey makes pure stuff! ]

They don't know. A lot of people will act like they know things and not know much about cosmetic chemistry or dermatology or photobiology. Of these, the chemistry is probably the most demanding to learn. I'd rec taking general and organic chemistry at the local community college and then reading a lot of papers and good books.

[ Whether they really are good or not is another thing. Would love to be able to read more about what you know.......thnx]

Go to the fda.gov website and search on Aubrey Organics, some of the warning letters are there. His stuff is just as fake as they drugstore stuff. But most people have no clue as to what his ingredients really are.

If you want all natural you have to make it, 3 days worth at a time, store in the fridge, throw out at that point, remake etc. Bacterial and fungal levels can grow to unacceptable in a very short period of time when appropriate preservatives are not used.

Another thing is emulsifiers: the best ones are synthetic. He uses synthetic ones but he gives them creative names. This is also against FDA regulations.

I have problems with some FDA decisions but one aspect that I do like is that they go after violators when they find out about them.

I don't like what Aubrey is doing because he is taking advantage of a trusting populace.

I'd rather see people make their own stuff than support him.

I always recommend New Chapter. They are a well-known, established, and trusted company offering whole-food, cultured, supplements. Their founder, Paul Schulick, is recognized as a leading authority on ginger. And they obtained the assistance of Paul Stamets, owner of Fungi Perfecti, in the formulation of their mushroom products.

-Erin
Raw Done Light
dogma-free RAW
Gazpacho For The Soul

I believe, in theory, that we should not use sunscreen because our bodies should be naturally resistant to the sun's rays (think about it: back in our hunter-gatherer days, did we have sunscreen when trekking for days, weeks, months in the hot sun in search of food and shelter? Nope!). HOWEVER - nowadays, I believe that not only is it a good idea to slather on sunscreen, it would be stupid NOT to. Like arugula said, we have a thinning, punctured ozone layer to worry about that our ancestors did not. I think it's worth seeking out the most natural sunblock you can find (or making your own - anyone have a recipe?) and using it whenever you're out in the sun for significant periods of time. That's my opinion.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Go to the fda.gov website and search on Aubrey
> Organics, some of the warning letters are there.
> His stuff is just as fake as they drugstore stuff.
>




Arggh - I found nothing! Maybe you could give me search tips or a link if you have time. Thnx




> I don't like what Aubrey is doing because he is
> taking advantage of a trusting populace.
>
> I'd rather see people make their own stuff than
> support him.


Me neither, me too, Lots of ppl only see an advantage in the marketplace rather than caring for integrity.

"love" block and "sleep" block were staples of mine for awhile. I recommend NOT using them.

getting the level of sunshine that works for you and progressing seems like the best advice (works for diet as well), as opposed to adding chemicals ('organic' or not) to your skin. That said if you know your going to be out ALL day in the sun somewhere, why not use sunblock and avoid the pain of suffering (whether it protects against long term damage or not).

if you are new to raw, I don't think your body would respond THAT negatively to it, considering the plethorqa of chemicals most people usually 'supplement' with

I disagree completely about Aubrey. Have you read the ingredients? They are sooo much better than most of the stuff that is out there. It's all relative but it is so much better that Lo'real. I feel uncomfortable with saying a company is bad because they use a few questionable ingredients when they are so much better than what is out on the market.

Hi meow,

I'll only answer what I know.
I don't take supplements. I've had bouts of taking them in the past but they never seemed to benefit me in noticeable ways. Perhaps if my diet hadn't of been atrocious they might have had a chance!

I'm in the sun a lot. I used to use sun block trying many brands looking for one that wouldn't clog my skin and feel creepy. I think the one I liked best was a Zia brand. But even that bugged me so I finally stopped using sun block and actually feel better with that decision.

Mind you I cover what I can with a hat and clothing. I also use a home made wash and rinse before I go out. If I was only out for 30 or so minutes it would be less of an issue for me.

Like many of the folks on this forum have advised, I find that whatever feels right or the least of the evils works best for me. At the end of the day sun block was bugging me more than the actual sun exposure.

Kit

Aragula,
>I have problems with some FDA decisions but one aspect that I do like is that they go after violators when they find out about them.<

Just an observation--
Seems like they are quick to go after alternative violators, but very slow to go after pharmaceutical violators.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Cecilia Ines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I disagree completely about Aubrey. Have you read
> the ingredients? They are sooo much better than
> most of the stuff that is out there. It's all
> relative but it is so much better that Lo'real. I
> feel uncomfortable with saying a company is bad
> because they use a few questionable ingredients
> when they are so much better than what is out on
> the market.



Cecilia, do you know of any documented (or other) problems with Aubrey, cuz I couldnt't find anything negative on the fda.gov site. Don't know where Arugula got the info.

I was told by a natural cosmetic worker-producer,that it's extremely difficult to ensure the products they are supplied with are of the same quality from shipment to shipment. It seems suppliers have trouble getting premium stuff, too. And so it goes on down the line............ They had to constantly search for suppliers of certified organic ingredients and constantly question the suppliers re: changes or additives to the ingredients cuz the suppliers aren't required to announce such things to their customers!
There's a local Vancouver company who just started marketing higher quality hair products and tho it's sooooo expensive, I buy it for family and friends cuz it's blissfully unscented.

i wear floppy hats and keep things lightly covered with light cotton skirts and shirts , also sunglasses all the time (my eyes have always been light sensitive)

i think floppy hats should be in style forever

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Someone sent me this article on vitamin D and sunlight exposure. I thought it was pretty informative:

[www.newstarget.com]

Fifteen Facts You Probably Never Knew About Vitamin D and Sunlight Exposure
(Compiled by Mike Adams, based on an interview with Dr. Michael Holick, author, The UV Advantage)

Vitamin D prevents osteoporosis, depression, prostate cancer, breast cancer, and even effects diabetes and obesity. Vitamin D is perhaps the single most underrated nutrient in the world of nutrition. That's probably because it's free: your body makes it when sunlight touches your skin. Drug companies can't sell you sunlight, so there's no promotion of its health benefits. Truth is, most people don't know the real story on vitamin D and health. So here's an overview taken from an interview between Mike Adams and Dr. Michael Holick.

1. Vitamin D is produced by your skin in response to exposure to ultraviolet radiation from natural sunlight.
2. The healing rays of natural sunlight (that generate vitamin D in your skin) cannot penetrate glass. So you don't generate vitamin D when sitting in your car or home.
3. It is nearly impossible to get adequate amounts of vitamin D from your diet. Sunlight exposure is the only reliable way to generate vitamin D in your own body.
4. A person would have to drink ten tall glasses of vitamin D fortified milk each day just to get minimum levels of vitamin D into their diet.
5. The further you live from the equator, the longer exposure you need to the sun in order to generate vitamin D. Canada, the UK and most U.S. states are far from the equator.
6. People with dark skin pigmentation may need 20 - 30 times as much exposure to sunlight as fair-skinned people to generate the same amount of vitamin D. That's why prostate cancer is epidemic among black men -- it's a simple, but widespread, sunlight deficiency.
7. Sufficient levels of vitamin D are crucial for calcium absorption in your intestines. Without sufficient vitamin D, your body cannot absorb calcium, rendering calcium supplements useless.
8. Chronic vitamin D deficiency cannot be reversed overnight: it takes months of vitamin D supplementation and sunlight exposure to rebuild the body's bones and nervous system.
9. Even weak sunscreens (SPF=8) block your body's ability to generate vitamin D by 95%. This is how sunscreen products actually cause disease -- by creating a critical vitamin deficiency in the body.
10. It is impossible to generate too much vitamin D in your body from sunlight exposure: your body will self-regulate and only generate what it needs.
11. If it hurts to press firmly on your sternum, you may be suffering from chronic vitamin D deficiency right now.
12. Vitamin D is "activated" in your body by your kidneys and liver before it can be used.
13. Having kidney disease or liver damage can greatly impair your body's ability to activate circulating vitamin D.
14. The sunscreen industry doesn't want you to know that your body actually needs sunlight exposure because that realization would mean lower sales of sunscreen products.
15. Even though vitamin D is one of the most powerful healing chemicals in your body, your body makes it absolutely free. No prescription required.

On the issue of sunlight exposure, by the way, it turns out that super antioxidants greatly boost your body's ability to handle sunlight without burning. Astaxanthin is one of the most powerful "internal sunscreens" and can allow you to stay under the sun twice as long without burning. Other powerful antioxidants with this ability include the superfruits like Acai, Pomegranates (POM Wonderful juice), blueberries, etc.

Diseases and conditions cause by vitamin D deficiency:

* Osteoporosis is commonly caused by a lack of vitamin D, which greatly impairs calcium absorption.
* Sufficient vitamin D prevents prostate cancer, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, depression, colon cancer and schizophrenia.
* "Rickets" is the name of a bone-wasting disease caused by vitamin D deficiency.
* Vitamin D deficiency may exacerbate type 2 diabetes and impair insulin production in the pancreas.
* Obesity impairs vitamin D utilization in the body, meaning obese people need twice as much vitamin D.
* Vitamin D is used around the world to treat Psoriasis.
* Vitamin D deficiency causes schizophrenia.
* Seasonal Affective Disorder is caused by a melatonin imbalance initiated by lack of exposure to sunlight.
* Chronic vitamin D deficiency is often misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia because its symptoms are so similar: muscle weakness, aches and pains.
* Your risk of developing serious diseases like diabetes and cancer is reduced 50% - 80% through simple, sensible exposure to natural sunlight 2-3 times each week.
* Infants who receive vitamin D supplementation (2000 units daily) have an 80% reduced risk of developing type 1 diabetes over the next twenty years.


Shocking Vitamin D deficiency statistics:

* 32% of doctors and med school students are vitamin D deficient.
* 40% of the U.S. population is vitamin D deficient.
* 42% of African American women of childbearing age are deficient in vitamin D.
* 48% of young girls (9-11 years old) are vitamin D deficient.
* Up to 60% of all hospital patients are vitamin D deficient.
* 76% of pregnant mothers are severely vitamin D deficient, causing widespread vitamin D deficiencies in their unborn children, which predisposes them to type 1 diabetes, arthritis, multiple sclerosis and schizophrenia later in life. 81% of the children born to these mothers were deficient.
* Up to 80% of nursing home patients are vitamin D deficient.


What you can do:
Sensible exposure to natural sunlight is the simplest, easiest and yet one of the most important strategies for improving your health. I urge you to read the book, "The UV Advantage" by Dr. Michael Holick to get the full story on natural sunlight. You can find this book at most local bookstores or through BN.com, Amazon.com, etc. Note: This is not a paid endorsement or an affiliate link. I recommend it because of its great importance in preventing chronic disease and enhancing health without drugs or surgery. This may be the single most important book on health you ever read. If more people understood this information, we could drastically reduce the rates of chronic disease in this country and around the world. Sunlight exposure is truly one of the most powerful healing therapies in the world, far surpassing the best efforts of today's so-called "advanced medicine." There is no drug, no surgical procedure, and no high-tech procedure that comes even close to the astonishing healing power of natural sunlight.

And you can get it free of charge. That's why nobody's promoting it, of course.

My daughter is 3 and I am really concerned about putting sunscreen on her because of the chemical and because of sheilding out rays from the sun that produce the vitamin D she needs. Does anyone know of ANY SAFE product or maybe a home recipe for a sunblock that will help her body absorb the rays but not get sunburn? She is outside A LOT. Please help!

Hi sndance


I use products from this place: it changed owner a few years ago and they don't have the integrity the original owners did, but the original owners stayed on as consultants for 3 years after sellling it.

I don't know a better place to buy or I would, and still recommend it.


If you're actually going to make sunblock though, please let me know before you order anything - I've learnt a couple of things that will make a much better product (for less) than the recipe they offer - by simplifying the ingredients.



[www.cranberrylane.org]