I'd love to hear what the difference is in the impact on one's body & health when one is high raw vs 100%. I am abot 90% raw and am looking for motivation to go 100%. WHy would it be better for me?


www.inaia.com

Opinion:

-Because keeping the body in a costant state of crisis by introducing compounds into it that they body will interpret as toxic matter cannot be a good thing.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Hi Inaia--

I don't really feel qualified to speak much from personal experience, although I will say that I do best at 100% even in transition, which I've done a few times...hence my hesitation to speak much.

But I have read so many accounts of there being a large difference --- positive, of course. Physically, emotionally, mentally, etceterally.

One account which I re-read recently was in Joe Alexander's book "Blatant Raw Foodist Propaganda". He read Ehret and went on mucous free diet, still eating some cooked. He went through quite a lot of detoxing, and lost weight, and felt much better, but he wondered why he didn't feel the amazing benefits of clarity and such that he had read about. This is when he had lost so much weight and then regained weight on the very same diet, but still with one cooked meal a day. He couldn't figure out what the missing link was to what he calls "paradise health" that he wanted also, until he read an account of all fruit diet. He went on all fruit for a few days and had an increase and surge of clear beautiful energy. He added raw vegetables and found that didn't sully the newfound energy, and he realised the key was in 100% raw diet.

As for you...there is a way to find out!

Best wishes on your journey!

Elakti

There is no argument on the point that a 100 percent carefully chosen diet plan can lead to a healty life and there are many people on this board who can attest for that. For me, food is also cultural and there are certain coooked meals that bring me joy and happiness especially when mixed with some raw items. That feeling for me surpass any additional benefit I may gain by eating 100 percent raw. And beside there is no empirical evidence that cooked food introduce toxics in the body as some people want us to believe.

Thank youfor all your diverse opinions. I would love to hear more.

I was also listening to Rawkin Radio yesterday- which is a podcast with Alissa Cohen & Revvell. They also had interesting things to say. But I guess Elakti is right. There is really only one way to find out. Maybe I've been tring to avoid tsking the leap and finding out for myself- and there is no substitute for doing the work.


www.inaia.com

djatchi wrote:

"And beside there is no empirical evidence that cooked food introduce toxics in the body as some people want us to believe."

Yes, I wondered about this assertion as well. What toxins, for example, are present in lightly cooked broccoli that are not present in raw broccoli? I doubt very seriously that any are. The methods by which foods are cooked is very very important. Fried broccoli, as another example, is probably toxic because of the chemical breakdown in the oils used to fry it. But broccoli, cooked au sec, or without water, just until the outer layer of the vegetable is softened, should not be toxic at all, and the loss of viable enzymes would be only about 2% (as opposed to 30% steamed).

The biggest problem with cooked, in my opinion, is that very few people know HOW to cook properly, for health instead of taste alone. So, if optimal health and nutrition is your goal there will still be a schism between you and the vast majority of your world. And as long as there is any cooked in your diet the opportunity for compromise is constant. When you are raw, you're raw, there is no compromise.

Just some thoughts,

khale

From what I've read in many sources, cooked food is recognised by the body as toxic. The heat had altered the food to such a degree as to mess up the amino acids (there is a better way to say that but I can't remember it, de-aminize or something ), kill the enzymes, and carmelize the sugars, and whatever else, rendering the food toxic. It is no longer food, and sometimes was never our food to begin with. It has been measured that the lycocytosis (sp??) (the elevation of white blood cell count denoting fact that body has detected toxins and is trying to deal with them) occurs after eating cooked food. I don't believe there is a proper way to cook anything, except maybe light steaming of vegetables, or baking a potato, as the lesser of the evils, as Khale points out.
I believe what I have read in Natural Hygiene books...very simply: if what we put in our mouths is not our real biologically appropriate food (which is fruit, some greens and vegetables, seeds, and nuts/we are not carnivorous nor are we grainivores nor are we omnivorous) which the body can use to feed its' cells, then it is treated as unwelcome and toxic and must be eliminated, using energy and gaining nothing.) Our mind might take pleasure for whatever reason in the comfort food, but to the body's cells the only thing that matters is if it is food for the cells. If it is not food for the cells, it is useless to the body, and is in the category of more crap to be eliminated.

It's just like the ole car/gas analogies. The car only runs on the kind of gas intended for it. We can't just throw anything in the tank and say, 'oh, car, what do you care, you're in Paris!'

I found when I had a slip up about 6 months into transitioning, when I was hitting around 90% having cooked food completly messed me up, physically and emotionally I was a wreck.

So being 100% is important for me and critical for my health (former crohns sufferer)


Guess you have to find what works for you

For some people allowing some cooked at the weekends works fine, for others its all or nothing.

You have to find what works right for yourself.

Just my two cents so to speak!

xx

djatchi Wrote:

>there are certain coooked meals
> that bring me joy and happiness especially when
> mixed with some raw items.

this is a very interesting statement is it not?
is it food that we should be looking to to bring us joy and happiness?

i would think maybe the sharing of food with others may bring us certain feelings, but the food itself?

this would indicate that the food item is more of a stimulant or drug, it seems to me.

i mean, i enjoy my food, but joy and happiness is giving, loving, experiencing life. food is simply sustenance to me.

not my intent to negate your feelings or experience, it just seemed a bit odd when filtered through my perspective.

>And beside there is no
> empirical evidence that cooked food introduce
> toxics in the body as some people want us to
> believe.

"cooked" is of course not specific enough, because there are a hundred types of cooking, but if you look into leukocytosis and maillard molecules and acrylamide you will find that you will discover plenty of empirical evidence.

I'm still learning and deliberating on this subject myself and have not made up my mind 100% as to the value of 100% vs high raw, even though at the present time I am gunning 100%.

But let's take a look at what a healthy, cooked diet would look like (presuming that there is such a thing):

No oils or fats of any kind used in the cooking process - fats can be added in small amounts after cooking - which means no fried foods of any kind, no traditional stir fry, no traditional saute'

No salt, or very, very little salt should be used in cooking with a preference for fresh herbs and seasonings instead

Vegetables should be cooked sparingly without water - or oil

Fruits should NEVER be cooked (bye bye apple pie)

All food should be cooked at very low temperatures for longer periods than is normal - particularly flesh food (no bbq, no roasts, no high temperature baked, and in fact, boiled in water is best for flesh food - appetizing huh?) or slow-cooked in a moderate oven and all flesh foods should be free-range and raised without hormones, antibiotics and etc. etc. (plan to spend at least $12.00 for a chicken unless you raise your own) Plus, there is strong evidence that flesh foods are not healthy for the body, and may best be left out of the diet entirely

All grains should be steamed and whole

Bread should be of sprouted grain: no french, ciabatti, focaccio and etc. : /

Dairy should be fresh and raw (no aged cheddar, sorry)


Well...you get the picture. Following these guidelines I believe that it is possible to include healthy cooked into the diet. But how many of us will truthfully follow such guidelines? Most of us, myself most of all, are not thinking of this when we think of including cooked - we are thinking, along with djatchi, of cultural and family favorites that, I'll bet my life, are NOT cooked in a healthy way.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not at all convinced that an occasional festive meal with family and friends is the devastation that some here claim, but I am sure that the occasional becomes more and more frequent until before you know it you are right back into the frying pan with everyone else, ie, eating crap.

Therein lies the rub.

khale

Thanks, all for the input!

Khale: for me a "healthy cooked diet" would never include ANY dairy. The definitions are as diverse as the population of the earth. And I hear you on everything else.

Fresh: Thanks for the reference.

Elakti: VERY good point.

But ANYWAY, I have decided to try 30 days raw with no cheating and see what difference it makes after being 90 -100% raw for 3 months. I think this will be the only way to find out for sure. Let's see what happens...


www.inaia.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2007 04:00PM by Inaia.

fresh,
Food is ONE of the things that bring me joy and happiness. I am sure in your rawness there are some raw food you do not eat because you do not like them. The same with me. We all have experienced mouth watering emotions when put in front of certain meals. We could say it is not the thing istself but our reaction to it, it is not the flower but how we perceive it.

I think Khale made a good point explaining the importance on how the food was cooked.

We in the rawfood camp should stop making statements on toxicity of cooked food when there is little empirical evidence of it, we need to invite new comers, people who just want to be less than 100 percent.

Here is a good article on this:

Quote

"Cooked food is toxic.”

This type of bold statement is what weakens our message and puts unnecessary fear into people. Cooking food doesn’t immediately turn it into something toxic. If it were true, no one would be alive. It is true that certain methods of cooking, such as frying and barbecuing create many carcinogenic substances in the process, it is false to say that all cooked foods are “toxic.” This is the type of statement that make people say that raw-foodists are fanatic and make them discredit our message at once. Why not say instead “raw food is superior”?

[www.fredericpatenaude.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2007 06:00PM by djatchi.

One piece of credible evidence is that a diet that is 50% lower in glycotoxins has extended lifespan by 10% in mice. It isn't 50% life extension, only 10%.

But I suspect that from a glycotoxin standpoint a 100% reduction would probably not make that much of a difference compared to say, 80% because the normal healthy body clears 90% of the glycotoxins. Going from 80% reduction (in which you net about 1.8% of the glycotoxins) to 100% reduction (in which you net 0% of them) probably doesn't buy much in terms of health. I doubt it would be even a year on top of a typical 80 year lifespan.

Unfortunately we do not have precise figures, nor are mice people. But that's all we have. The rest is hunches.

But we also know that reducing calories while keeping nutrients high is also life extending. And also that many of the beneficial phytochemicals are more available when not heat damaged and provide more protection from cancers when raw. These things all add up.

Some people will want every last iota of advantage. Others will be satisfied with aiming in the general ballpark.

Ugh...now I'm remembering why I stay away from raw message boards...So much energy of judgment here. I do 90-100 percent raw myself. I've been high raw for 19 months...I did 100 percent for a long time. When I eat the "toxic" (oh gawd) food that is cooked, I eat things that are steamed and very simple. I also practice proper food combining. I haven't died yet from overdosing on these toxic foods LOL.

You can still be very, very healthy and do high raw...

I've done both ends of the spectrum for "years" at a time each. Low fat vegan or 100% raw is only one part of the equation. The key is educated food choices as well as rest, exercise and overall healthy living.

Both have their goods and bad. 100% is the way to go theoretically, BUT, many times it can have negative effects. Where I live, for example, 100% raw can be counterproductive and difficult to do in good health for anyone not fully educated. Fruit availability and quality is a serious consideration. Lack of sunshine, and so many overlook exercise. Put this with under eating calories and ones health is greatly compromised. Many won't see it till many years later though. Most haven't done 100% long enough to witness these things.

Be carfeful, get educated in good nutrition and LEARN to listen to one's own body is key. Next, BE CAREFUL as to so many spouting the benefits of this and that. I've found the majority base their findings, good and bad on a relatively short period of time or based on ideal conditions.

Thank you so much. This sounds like very good advice. I do workout 6 days a week- which-if I don't I see a huge impact on my health. I think this is VERY important. Also, I feel like I need to eat much more fat @ times when I'm 100% raw. I can see ow in that case it may be better to focus on the quality of th food ingested rather than just the fact that it is raw.

I just want to be as healthy as I possibly can be.

Food for thought...


www.inaia.com

I also find that when I do 100 percent raw, I have to eat much more fat. Of course, I workout every day and was competitive athlete. I say "was" because my body needs to rebuild itself after so much detox. I find I do better on a 80 percent raw diet with some steamed gluten free grains (not rice though) and some lightly cooked veggies. Nuts and seeds as well as other fats seem to really make me tired and dragged down. So, I tried to eat more of the 80-10-10 way and it was disastrous for me. I've been high raw for 19 months and I am learning what works and what doesn't. I've also learned that I have to do what works best for me versus trying to fit into some theory or dogma about how I "should" be

Thanks for that.. Today I had a better day. I included corn. I am also trying out different things to see what works best for me too. And I totally agree with you. I'm not trying to gain anyone's approval- just do what makes me feel the most vibrant & healthy & happy & free.


www.inaia.com

All living plants have immunological systems that fight off bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc . When eaten live the plant's immunological system goes to work for you fighting off pathogenic critters. Cooking, however, destroys the plant's immunological substances and pathogenic organisms have a greater chance of thriving and poisoning you.

RG wrote:

"I find I do better on a 80 percent raw diet with some steamed gluten free grains (not rice though) and some lightly cooked veggies."

I'm still quite intrigued by this way of eating too...though, I'll tell ya, there are many things that I'm loving about all raw...and I DO think the more raw the better, BUT I can't shake the feeling that there is value in moderate to low use, of bland, properly cooked, food. At heart, I'm flexi-raw (just made that up) and plan to continue experimenting on myself after the 7 weeks I'm committed to...but then again I may do a juice fast after the seven weeks...i'm chill like that.

khale

Certainly no one should go 100% before they are ready. Eating this way makes a person more vunerable, as the shielding and density from eating cooked foods melts away. For many, this is a showstopper just by itself.

Bryan wrote:

"Eating this way makes a person more vunerable, as the shielding and density from eating cooked foods melts away. For many, this is a showstopper just by itself."

I can imagine. And I think you've made a good point Bryan. I think the density of cooked IS a "shielding"..., and a grounding too. It's a tempering process that I think I'm looking for. A wen of knowing when shielding and grounding is necessary. This is essentially what I've been trying to articulate, and yet still can't quite say what I mean.

I watched a video of a well-known young woman who lost an enormous amount of weight on raw and who recently underwent a 92 juice feast. The video documented the very day she returned to solid food...some of you have probably seen this. There was something extremely attractive about the blue of her eyes; and the clean, almost elfen youthfulness of her overall character. She said that she would prefer to stay on juices, but knew that for the health of her body that she must return to solids eventually...and so, rather painfully, ended by eating a soaked prune. She didn't run the video long enough to tell us whether or not the prune was delicious. I wanted it to be delicious for her.

What concerns me about raw is that the feeling of being clean is extremely stimulating, and people, people like me, can get carried away by it; ungrounded. I think that there are good reasons to temper perpetual cleansing w/ grounding, solid, and warming food...as a shield, so to speak, against overstimulation.

I'm not "married" to this idea guys...its just stuff that I think about. For me, its always good to question what ya do.


khale

being clean and being ungrounded would not be mutual terms.

I wouldn't equate it with stimulation either.

sometimes when someone is cleaning out, like on a fast, there are lots of excito-toxins pouring into their blood. making them feel fantastic. thats one reason why it takes even greater dicipline to continue to rest

not making any comment about any inidividual

as for this 'shielding' idea, its certainly a good point. but not just in this emotional way where food 'grounds; you, its also quite physical. Your body knows how to adjust quite well (too well for some) to what you are eating given time, but sometimes 'you' don't, which Is why when people flip between 100% and not..they feel ill, different, emotional swings, guilt etc...

I've been off nuts for awhile..if I wanted to start eating em again, I
d have to start with very small ammounts. but in the world of cooked foods. you can cleanse your body in time of various 'foods' that one can easily, unconsciously incorporate in that world, and you get ill. If you are eating a variety of foods and very dense raw foods often (once or more a day), this type of cleansing won't be taking place anyway, so its not as much of an issue what '%' raw you are


I think someone can be plenty healthy as long as they are bringing greater consciousness to what they are doing, whatever that means to the person, it doesn't even have to be a raw diet. But don't think its healthy, past transitioning, to use foods as 'grounding' tools or for 'social' reasons. These mainly highlight emotional and thought addictions that a conscious eating plan should bring to the table healthfully.

I think if someone is eating cooked non-gluten grains and steamed vegies sparingly (while mainting a progressive policy of leaving all other foods out entirely) and are allowing their body sufficient digestive rest with their other eating/non eating practices it would be a VERY healthy plan. To me, I tried this and found it nearly impossible, for all grains are addictive, steamed vegies don't work for me without grains or condiments, and that if I wanted to comfortably eat moderate to large ammounts of fruit, I couldn't inteligently do so if I had cooked grain in my system 16-18 hours prior.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2007 12:23AM by anaken.

All very interesting points coming up. Thanks.

I, personally am on my 7th day of 100% right now. After being 90= 100% for 4 months, I do notice some subtle differences. I plan to go for 30 days and take it from there- unless for some reason I feel it healthy and balanced to try something else vefore.

I find the 'sheilding' thing to be true for me. I found this from the beginning when I went high raw as well. I find that I can't medicate or numb myself with raw foods. If I start feeling anxious or unsafe, I'll want some green tea to stimulate me rather than being with my feelings and acting from a place of powerful truth. Our own boundless power can be scary to the ego. I find a part of me almost wants the boundaries and limits. Our limits are so self - creted. It's soo clear to me when I eat this way.


www.inaia.com

anaken wrote:

"I think if someone is eating cooked non-gluten grains and steamed vegies sparingly (while mainting a progressive policy of leaving all other foods out entirely) and are allowing their body sufficient digestive rest with their other eating/non eating practices it would be a VERY healthy plan. To me, I tried this and found it nearly impossible, for all grains are addictive, steamed vegies don't work for me without grains or condiments, and that if I wanted to comfortably eat moderate to large ammounts of fruit, I couldn't inteligently do so if I had cooked grain in my system 16-18 hours prior."


Yep. I see what you mean. If I've learned anything during this 4 weeks raw (and actually I've learned a lot,) it's that one has to DO a raw diet to know a raw diet. Many points made by seasoned raw fooders that I disagreed with when first frequenting this forum are now..., "ohhhh, NOW I see what he/she meant". And you are right, adding cooked grains would definitely require a major readjustment to fat and fruit intake and so on...

khale Wrote:

>
> Yep. I see what you mean. If I've learned anything
> during this 4 weeks raw (and actually I've learned
> a lot,) it's that one has to DO a raw diet to know
> a raw diet. Many points made by seasoned raw
> fooders that I disagreed with when first
> frequenting this forum are now..., "ohhhh, NOW I
> see what he/she meant". And you are right, adding
> cooked grains would definitely require a major
> readjustment to fat and fruit intake and so on...

it is very nice to see the change that you have undergone, khale.
kudos to you for doing it and being open to it.

Why thank you fresh!

both you and anaken have strong influence in this process of mine...so, it means a lot coming from you...

khale

Im sticking to 80% and up. I tried 100% and all I did was fart.

I used to be all or nothing. If I couldnt do something perfectly, I thought I was a failure. Now I give myself a break and allow myself to be human.

80% is a far cry from where I was a year ago. I look at how far Ive come, WOW! Thats good enough for me