I think your ace richard!

Your body resembles perfectly what a human being should look like.

Im 22 years old, currently at about 80% raw and also love to workout. I hope to one day get to where your at. Your a big inspiration.

Supersaurus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RusticBohemian wrote "You guys might want to check
> out Charlie Abel".
>
> I bought his Ebook. He's a fake. He has no
> pictures in it. The pics on his website are back
> when he was not a raw foodist. He's just trying to
> fool people into thinking that he built that body
> on raw food. He mentions about winning third place
> in some BB competition a few years ago but doesn't
> say if he was on raw or not. I'm betting he wasn't
> otherwise he would proudly say it. On top of that
> I saw him in a video at an organic athlete forum
> and you couldn't even tell if he was a
> bodybuilder. Pity I didn't see that video before
> buying his Ebook. I emailed him a few questions
> and he never replied. What a fake.


What kind of weights are you doing? I heard compound movements like deadlifts, squats and presses are what really pack on the weight. However, most gyms are kitting out to isolate.

Try drsquat.com they are pretty into hardcore training. Albeit, not diet...

Kombai, I have free weights and a home gym. I know most of the exercizes and the different methods. I've working out for about 25yrs now.

Boyd, Richard is a small guy. He's ripped but small in stature. His calves are underdeveloped. Mine are the same way. I try hard to build my calves and they show evidence of growing but they are not where I'd like them to be and the change is too slow. After 2 years of working out(on raw) my calves shouldn't be like this. If I start eating cooked food with animal products now, within 6 weeks I would have well developed legs.

The only thing that keeps me on raw right now is the fact that I feel 100 times better than when I was on cooked. There absolutely isn't any feeling comparable to being a 100% raw.

Supersaurus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard is a small guy. He's ripped but
> small in stature. His calves are underdeveloped.
> Mine are the same way. I try hard to build my
> calves and they show evidence of growing but they
> are not where I'd like them to be and the change
> is too slow.

not sure why you would say this .. or do you know Richard in real life and have seen his legs for real. All ive seen Richards legs in pics .. and his calves actually seem quite nicely developed ...assuming they are developed enough to keep him upright lol

I think richards muscles have that nice lean long look in comparison to the short bulky steroid looking blocky knobs on other types of bodybuilders

what do you mean by well-developed if you think his are are underdeveloped ? what does well-developed look like ? maybe a link to what you mean?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2008 03:14AM by Jgunn.

For the record, I think Richard has a perfectly beautiful body, including his calf size.

I have seen a preponderance of obsession with calf size among bodybuilders, they work so hard to make their calves bigger and it really isn't attractive.

[ If I start eating cooked food with animal products now, within 6 weeks I would have well developed legs. ]

As they say in the legal profession,

"insufficient predicate."

Supersaurus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kombai, I have free weights and a home gym. I know
> most of the exercizes and the different methods.
> I've working out for about 25yrs now.
>
> Boyd, Richard is a small guy. He's ripped but
> small in stature. His calves are underdeveloped.

talk about focusing on the negative !



> Mine are the same way. I try hard to build my
> calves and they show evidence of growing but they
> are not where I'd like them to be and the change
> is too slow. After 2 years of working out(on raw)
> my calves shouldn't be like this.

shouldn't ? they are, right? so they should be what they are.


> If I start
> eating cooked food with animal products now,
> within 6 weeks I would have well developed legs.

take some pictures and prove it.


>
> The only thing that keeps me on raw right now is
> the fact that I feel 100 times better than when I
> was on cooked. There absolutely isn't any feeling
> comparable to being a 100% raw.


oh is that all?

:-)

There is only one way to get ripped -__- Yes one only -__-
As evidenced - when we remove the cast from a broken bone °__°
It won't mater how many high Vitamin, Mineral and Protein
Supplements - beef, fish or chicken stakes - super green
Smoothies or Organic raw fruits and vegetables eaten - , -
With the cast removed - we see atrophied muscles ......
They will not be ready to jump up and go for it !__!
After their nice long rest -__- To be strong
And healthy they must get exercise -__-

Professional body builders continue to increase
The weight and intensity Each work-out -__-
It's the only way muscles will grow -__-
(teroid supplements or not -__-

running by itself, cannot develop super chiseled calves
because muscles will plateau to their need +__-

We cannot compare ourselves to SAD's @__@

What the SAD fooder's eat - causes - , -
Them to retain toxins and water -__- That's - , -
Because any thing cooked, especially anything - , -
Roasted-toasted, baked-flaked, fried or dried is going
To cause so many negative effects - from water retention =__=

Other than professional body builders .,. that beafy - bulked up
Look comes from water retention -__- Beginners dieting loose
Mostly water -__- All dairy products cause a puffy apple doll
Texture to the body (there to provide protection for infants
fragile bones and Sensitive organs) °!° It is so easy to ID
The adult ;( meat .,. wheat .,. sugar and dairy eaters -__-

Occasionally we need to remind ourselves of
The consequences of lapsing into SAD -__-
For the incentive necessary to stay
Lean - , - Clean and Healthy - _ -
Fresh - Organic and Raw ~__~

Peace - pAL

yeah, but helloo, i think the point is you might need more protein then the diet is providing ...could be some argument over the key role in protein up in here; so as food will not MAKE you gain muscle, it could certainly play a role in muscle building and efficiency, as supersaurus has observed for himself

raw food can cause water retention just as much as cooked food
"sad" food is way different from cooked food; one is more general

''Other than professional body builders .,. that beafy - bulked up
Look comes from water retention ''

I disagree,
our bodys are made up of 80% water and LEAN muscles are made up of 75% water.

so to say it comes from water retention is a little silly.

When you see a pro natural bodybuilder (DRUG FREE) go on stage or when they are
cutting - they eat lots of protein and low carbs and low fats and they have a very tight DRY look,
That look they have 'then' is not from water retention.

Your right !__!
silly is as silly does -__-
"Other than professional body builders"

A problem with meat eating bodybuilders is water retention though...I saw a documentary about bodybulding and this guy was loosing a lot of weight for a competition and was really frustrated about this water he was retaining in his body...He would literally swish it about in his body and you could see and hear it. It was really weird. He actually didn't win because of it.

I'm not sure if natural bodybuilders have this problem as well...

how do you know it was the meat causing his water retention

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how do you know it was the meat causing his water
> retention


I don't

Yep....that's right, I am small in stature and always have been, I was usually the smallest in the rugby teams or sports I played in,having said that, I made up for it in attitude so it never really became a personal emotional issue for me, just means you gotta work harder to prove people wrong, ha,ha, all my family members are that way, we all are small boned...it's nothing to be ashamed of, so if someone thinks I have small calves then that's cool, come do some sprint training with me and see how under developed they are, my legs are built for speed, they are small at the bottom and naturally big up top but nobody ever sees my thighs because there's no reason to, plus, I always where shorts but anyway, I'm perfectly happy with the skin I'm in and can do most things that I thought was impossible years ago.

I do not wish to train to have anything made bigger like I used to back in the day, now I train to be able to be healthier, stronger and more conditioned also because I actually enjoy it.

As it happens nobody that I know of from this board has seen me in the flesh, unless they have been to Doug grahams Health & Fitness week or to one of my boot camps in Dallas. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's easy to judge or make negative comments about a persons size/build over the internet when you don't know them or never seen them in the flesh...I've never really been a bodybuilder per se but I've found Charlie Abel to be a good guy and he's always answered my e-mails promptly in the past, as for his pics, well that's his business, he's raw now, so he's not going to have that bulk that he did when he was cooked, which was the whole point of my original post but in my opinion he still looks fit and healthy regardless of his age, so to call him "a fake" seems a bit unfair but that's just me, I say give him a pat on the back instead of sticking a knife in it.

Like I've always said...if your looking for the muscles you see in the bodybuilding mags you won't get it when you go longterm raw vegan because your not doing what those guys are doing...so stop setting yourself up for failure and change your role models!

Here's a vid that might be of interest.
[www.youtube.com]

Juss ma 2 cents worth.

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2008 12:59AM by richard blackman.

There is a brilliant book called Raw Power by Stephen Arlin which has recipes for bodybuilding while on a raw food diet.

I tried his recipes as I too get quite thin while eating raw,even to the point of emaciation, the only problem is that he uses large quantities of nuts. which can not be good in the long term. But it may be good for some who can process nuts efficiently.

It would be brilliant to find someone who knows how to put on good clean body mass while on a raw food diet. Perhaps raw foods and good healthy body weight does not go hand in hand.

For people who have started off normal or overweight would benefit the most. Being underweight is not an attractive look and I'm a woman.

Richard

I think that you look great..

For the life of me I cannot understand why so many men feel that we all should stand 6 feet 4 inches tall, weigh in at 230 pounds, & look like Arnold Schwarzenegger..

I learned an essential lesson during my three years in the U.S. Army..Big. tall, muscular men that are very fit have to work A LOT harder than do small, short, equally muscular & equally fit men in order to accomplish the same task..There are certain undeniable advantages to being tall & strong..On the long marches when things got really tough it was generally the shorter (under 5 feet 8 inches) and lighter (under 175 pounds) men that finished first, & finished in the best condition..

As a society we have allowed Hollywood, the media, & advertising agencies to define what the so-called ideal woman or man should look like..

You have pointed out many times that it is essential for raw vegan athletes to become comfortable in their new bodies, & to NOT try and define their new athleticism by the old cooked food standards..

Bodybuilding has always seemed to me to be an exercise in frustration..Constantly trying to obtain an unobtainable goal..Perfection..

In centuries past there is no denying that being very large & muscular would hold some advantages for a warrior on the battlefield..As long as all that strength & size was accompanied by equal amounts of SPEED..After a certain point, strength & size without speed becomes a liability, instead of an asset..

Very few of the very large & strong men that were body builders that I have met could be considered fast..Most were what is commonly called muscle bound..Which is to say that their muscles were developed to the point that their muscles interfered with the normal functions of their bodies..

I think that a lot of the men that question your body's shape, & that of other raw vegans that are very muscular & fit, are missing the point..

A body building cooked food man that becomes a raw vegan will in all likelihood lose a considerable amount of weight when their body finally stabilizes into its new size..They will lose some muscle, as well as fat, water, & waste products..

When all is said and done, and this former body builder regains the muscle definition that you now enjoy; their muscles will be FAR more efficient than they ever were when they were a body builder..Their muscles will be more efficient because their bodies will be processing & eliminating the waste products from intense exercise far more quickly & efficiently than when they ate cooked food..Their muscles will be more efficient because these new muscles will be moving around a lot less total body weight than they did on a cooked food diet..These muscles will be more efficient because they will not be interfering with their body's normal movements..

Is this how you see things??..

Bruce

That's EXACTLY right Balto....

I've been a pro rugby sportsman and I've played with world class Rugby league players in the past and for several years the only people I hung out with were body builders and rugby players because it was my job, I've seen how things are done and the mentality that comes with it, you have to be a certain type of individual to be into bodybuilding, just like you be a certian type of person to play a contact sport like rugby.

I found that unlike rugby players for example, bodybuilders were always distracted by a love for themselves and a certain image that they had of themselves and the image that they wanted for themselves, I also found that if your not careful this image can get distorted to the point where you need to take steroids to grow further and the bodybuilding mags and fitness industry is the leading cause of this bigger is better mentality. I've got nothing against bodybuilding at all if that's what you love to do,heck, I was into it a little bit myself for years, throwing weights around and getting bigger was always a factor in rugby,you had to be bigger and stronger to take the hits, bodybuilding has it's good points and it's bad points just like everything else or any other hobby for that matter.

The issue I have is when athletes new raw veganisim or bodybuilders new to raw veganism get upset, quit and then trash the raw lifestyle and anybody else that's raw and inshape because there don't understand the transitioning process, like I said, to be a bodybuilder you have to be a certain type of person that thinks in a certain "critical" way that may come across as negative or overboard. I also have issue with raw vegans using bodybuilding and bodybuilding methods to "gain weight" because they feel they are "too skinny" now they are raw vegans, then beating themselves up because they are not making weight or they are getting too fatty/bloated from over eating.

To be honest,the few people that trash me are those that I've upset some time/somewhere on some forum, I don't think other people are really that interested or really care that much about how I look to the point where they want to critize or be mean, after all, I've been doing this long enough to really not give a hoot about how I look anymore because I know that it's just material and it's what's going on inside that matters, infact I believe that what is going on on the outside isa reflection of what's going on inside.

RB

SunShazzer

I think to make an accurate judgement about natural weight, muscle growth and the raw lifestyle people have to go through their transitioning process fully...instead of making judgement when things just start to get uncomfortable, most people do not stay with the raw lifestyle long enough to get past the initial weight loss stage but yet think that is the sum total of the whole raw lifestyle, when infact they haven't even begun to scratch the surface.

Yeah that book/author relied on blocking up the digestive system with avocado's and nuts and overeating on raw foods at all kinds of unhealthy times of the day and night to get bigger, just look at the few pics of the author to see the results of that, I got that book when I first started Fruitarianism and I threw it in the trash within an hour of it arriving in the mail.

Just my 2 cents

RB





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2008 07:18PM by richard blackman.

I think there areee a little too many quick-to-judge things going on here. It's not that someone may feel emaciated because it is raw food, but because there isn't enough nutrients in the food they are eating. It's easier to get more calories from cooked food, yes, this would be the only thing you could give to that right away as their reasoning - other then calories in raw food like nuts and fats which also have protein. Then again, some people don't think that much fat is healthy, and so on. It's all in opinion and experience, then again. I don't think it's rational to say cooked food is all the problems someone may experience with weight and neither is raw food. It's just grouped too easily. Now, if you're eating like...fast food compared to salad, of course there will be a difference.. BUT if you eat a cooked protein, and so on for meals, and you have energy and can work out and get big, versus, a bunch of salads (that would mean you're not eating enough -- just comparing a fault), you're not going to put on muscle mass, because you won't have the energy or calories to store muscle and actually build it. Muscle needs calories to stay on your body. Simple. Now, if you eat enough raw food, like these raw bodybuilders suggest with their nuts and stuff - you're going to see results probably because you're eating more calories, and your body can then metabolize what it needs to in order to keep that muscle..

So saying "oh it was the cooked food that was faking out my muscle mass, It probably isn't natural to be big" It's not full-proof. Neither is my answer, but I accept that..One person says they feel healthy with a smaller muscle mass while another feels they feel healthy bulkier and find it easier to do so a certain food way. Basically, I'm only trying to broaden the thinking spectrum here. People usually end up comparing extremes, like a huge bodybuilder that takes supplements or eats cooked food vs. someone who is more of a slim muscle type on raw food. It would be more sufficient to state exactly what diet each person is on. And also, the unknown fact of what is typical of a person's "look". It should be feel, yes, like richard said. He's happy doing his thing, but some people too FEEL better when they're not eating all raw food - and are able to have more energy. So feel. If someone thinks you're too bulky from stimulants and cooked food, but you feel good, keep going. If someone thinks your emaciated from raw food, but you feel good, you know, keep going. But the body will let you know if something isn't right.

Very nice post iLIVE.

thankyou paulie

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " Yeah that book/author relied on blocking up the
> digestive system with avocado's and nuts and
> overeating on raw foods at all kinds of unhealthy
> times of the day and night to get bigger,"

I can totally relate to this statement as this is what I did after 2 years being raw in 2006. Of course the results were not good at all and I did indeed clog my system.

IMHO, I have heard blackman say that its about toning muscles that you have rather than "building" in the traditional bodybuilding sense. I believe this is correct. If one is raw, I believe we should indeed NOT seek to use non-raw criterion to define our health, bodies, look....etc. Raw health is more of a long-term approach as opposed to most of society who think of health in terms of simply weight-loss over a short time period or building muscles very large and very quickly.

thats my two cents.......lol

It would be an interesting experiment however, if you gave a potentially great body builder a diet of pure raw fruit/veg but over 5,000 calories of it (if possible) and an average amount of steroids which bodybuilders use and see if he grows like a bodybuilder or will simply tone up.

Fruitarianone, you look absolutely fantastic!

Except maybe you need a new dentist (just kidding!)

Hi Supersaurus,

I'm just wondering. If you feel you're too thin, why is your diet "low fat"? Why not bring it up to "medium fat"?

Of course, if you have a lot of trouble digesting nuts/seeds/avos, then it wouldn't be a good idea. But if you're like me, and "medium fat" is OK for you, then why not? Seems like it would be better than going back to cooked food, if you feel best on 100% raw.

Another raw vegan option is raw wheat germ. That'll put some weight on ya! It's great in salads, with a dressing of cold-pressed organic olive oil and lemon juice.

I draw the line at raw vegan, but within raw vegan, my standards are very loose. It works for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2008 08:51PM by suncloud.

I think it would be even more interesting than using bodybuilders to take several world-class marathoners, long-distance runners (50 miles plus), cross-country skiers, and long-distance bicyclists (Tour de France, etc.) and see if athletes in these sports could sustain winning careers while eating a 100% raw vegan diet..

Athletes in these sports possess body types closer to Richard Blackman's than do body builders..

You might also throw in professional soccer players, mountain bikers, long-distance swimmers, and triathletes..

All these sports require that athletes participating in them sustain long periods of intense physical effort that usually end up with the athlete using 4000-10,000 calories of energy per session..

Arguably, professional cyclist have it the hardest..The Tour de France lasts 21-23 days, depending on the course and the year..There are usually 1-2 rest days..An average days caloric intake during the Tour de France is 8000-10,000 calories..On certain really hard stages every few years there are 12,000 calorie days..

I think that the Tour de France might be the ultimate test for validating, or disproving, the raw vegan diet..

Any comments??..

Bruce

baltochef Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "I think that the Tour de France might be the
> ultimate test for validating, or disproving, the
> raw vegan diet..
>
> Any comments??.."

> Bruce

I dont know Bruce. Maybe its because of where I am on this journey (my 5th year), but I dont think the Raw vegan lifestyle has to prove anything. To me, to be disease-free, healthy, active and happy is all the proof that is needed.

Todd

The point that I was trying to make is that if athletes participating in sports where the human body experiences extreme physical demands were able to compete successfully within their sport against cooked food eaters while consuming a raw vegan diet, then there would be no excuses for other humans with less demanding needs to question the raw diet..

I respectfully disagree with you Todd that the raw vegan diet has nothing to prove..

To the vast majority of the planet's citizens the raw vegan diet is at best looked at with skepticism, at worst with outright hostility..

Regardless of how we ourselves feel, the raw vegan diet is never going to be legitimate in the eyes of most people until discernable, provable results are available for all to view and compare..

I can think of nothing that would validate the raw vegan diet more than if a world-class winning athlete were to convert from cooked foods to a raw vegan diet, and to return to his, or her, winning ways after a period of transition..

This would shout to all the world that if a hard-core athlete could change their eating habits and be successful consuming a raw vegan diet; than an ordinary person could surely do the same..

Bruce

Well, if the goal is to win over the non-raw athletic world to the raw lifestyle, then i see your point. It appears almost like a witness I suppose.

But that aside, to me its enough to prove it in my own person for me to know it works. But, more to your point, seeing is believing to the cooked world.

Todd

I agree baltochef, that would be most interesting.

Also boxer and Mixed Martial Artists because they need strength per LBS of bodyweight and very fast reactions.

Athletes are the first people to try new things to improve their performance. Whenever there's an article in the paper about a new kind of performance enhancing drug, the scientist is inundated with athletes wanting to get their hands on it.

The best thing about it being unproven athletically is that we can be the innovators with the head start

That Raw Running guy has done amazing things. Also I've heard people say that even though they go down in dress size, they actually go up in weight. This obviously suggests that they are building more muscle.

Hey tglasco4, how you doing stranger!?

I agree with ya buddy nobody really has anything to prove but on the other hand as you say if your aim is to make a statement....then that's your cross to bear but having done that myself for years, I know that in the end the mainstream public couldn't care less at the end of the day, if you look crap they will tell you all day and night about how bad the raw lifestyle is but if you look good and your healthy...nobody will say a word or they will try to reasons other than the raw lifestyle as to why your thriving, plus going through the mental and physical purging that comes with going raw is too much of a commitment/ordeal for many....especially athletes becausethey don't want to mess with their performance.

Be good man...

RB





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 05:34AM by richard blackman.