When I first got into raw foods, back in 1981, it was a rare interest and looked down on by almost everyone. But now -- thanks mostly to the internet -- the word is getting around and the raw community has grown tremendously. Unfortunately, with a growing demographic come the leaches. Every time I turn around now, someone is trying to make big bucks off of raw foodism. Does it make you angry or do you think it's a good thing? Why?

Personally, I'm annoyed by it.. but you could tell that already, couldn't you? :-)

its probably a misconception that people are making BIG BUCKS

there are people selling foods or products that might not be the most health forming, and may be in fact misleading people about their benefits...or the process of health in general. This is a problem of sorts, Although as long as these products are no more dangerous then rice crispies treats...I think WE as a community tend to give these types of folks more grief then they deserve

holding on to our old ways: pride.

Someone giving the wrong stigma to 'your community' is a wrong way to look at it IMO, especially since there really is no one approach to health, and many of these people (selling products) are very passionate at what they do, how they are living, and of course they want to spread what is working for them..at that moment...THAT is only natural.

And the only way to bring people in...really is through the back door of capitalism and its methods...this is what people accept and its 'A' place to start. Others just stumble on eating fruits and vegetables...so go figure.


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I think people CAN and should be abundant in any way that they can. MANY people don't really assign a value to something/knowledge unless it DOES have a monetary value.....and that's OK. There ARE many folks - like myself - who do not charge for services and support. This board does not charge for use. Many forums do not. There are many people who eat well.....that do NOT do that particular thing for a LIVING.

-On the other hand, many people feel so enthusiastic/miraculous about these tools....that they WANT to make it their living. So be it.

-In any event, there is plenty of non-commercialism in raw food circles. It's there.....if you want it (of course the commercialism is too! ha! ha!).

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Today I was at Whole Foods and I noticed a tiny raw food section filled with things like nuts, granola, cookies et cetera. Everything was prohibitively expensive. I did indeed find that annoying because everything was basically nuts and seeds with "raw" on the packaging. I really hope that most people do not fall for those marketing schemes. These are things that would be easy enough to prepare at home for a fraction of the cost. I become annoyed when our intelligence is insulted.

i think it`s a double edged sword...on one hand it`s good because it gets the word out and advertising and what not so people won`t think of rawees as weirdos and hippies. personally i don`t mind being called a hippie i`d rather be a hippie than a rich beaurocrat(sp) who cares nothing about the planet, its people, or anything other than money and power. i`d rather hug a tree than the dollar bill. the more it gets mainstream the more accepted it`ll become. but...the more money hungry people it will attract also. so yea, it pisses me off sometimes but i also see the good that`l hopefully come from it
just my opinion
patty

I think that there is an evolution of knowledge taking place. Money and greed are great motivating forces (but with obvious downsides). Eventually all of the dis/misinformation will be sorted out, and competitive prices on fresh foods will prevail.

my main concern is how are people who cant afford an organic healthy lifestyle ever going to experiance that very thing, if they can not afford to pay for it. It's so much cheaper to pay for a meal at your local fast food reasturant, than to venture 15 miles across town to a whole foods market. that's not my scenario, but I bet it is someones.

It doesn't have to be annoying. Simply don't purchase items from them.

And Educate people that a successful raw and living lifestyle can be done without all the 'superfoods' and dehydrated goodies that many of these stores sell.

allone01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my main concern is how are people who cant afford
> an organic healthy lifestyle ever going to
> experiance that very thing, if they can not afford
> to pay for it.

i think that`s a huge concern and mainstream big business will make it difficult. if one can`t afford organic then don`t buy it. but what`s on sale and in season. i think the cost goes up when you get away from simple. utilizing sales and freezing can save tons of cash in the long run.
patty

I agree. When people see the prepackaged raw foods at the grocery store with the insanely high prices attached to them, many may think they cannot afford to go raw. But in my reality since eating raw, my food costs have been considerably lower-even buying all organic. When I buy raw, from the produce section, I don't have to pay for the fancy packaging and slick marketing. I also have found that almost 100% of my meals are prepared at home. This saves even more money. If you are on a very tight budget, in season buying will save you even more. You won't be paying for the cost of distance shipping and you will be doing the planet a huge favor as well. You will also be enjoying the healthiest, freshest foods. We just have to make sure we don't succumb to their marketing ploys.

i'm not in the least bit annoyed
i have a CHOICE

if i want something
i'll get it

if i don't want something
i won't

there is a time and a place for everything

there are so many businesses/jobs out there that are totally ruinous to the environment

marketing raw foods is not one of them

i don't have a single thing against them

i hope they continue to do what they do

to spread the seeds

besides, organic foods is not only at whole foods

its at farmer's market

your own backyard

etc.

if someone "falls" for a ploy

that was their prerogative

i could feel sorry for a lot worse things

lot people not having decent water to consume

I get sad when I see how expensive things are. Raw cacao powder, for example, and raw honey. They're just so much more expensive than their cooked counterparts and I just can't afford them! But that's because there's more demand for the cooked stuff so they can produce it cheaply. I hope people who have the money keep buying, that the raw lifestyle will spread and that one day it'll be less expensive!

For now, the only way for me to be raw is to forget about the speciality stuff, never look at a raw cookbook and just improvise with fresh veg and home-grown sprouts.

i dont begrudge anyone making a buck .. i choose how i spend my $$ not forced into it



...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

No, but it irritates me to see people making money from cooked food and eco-toxic businesses.

i find that raw ingredients that go into raw food packaged items are simply more expensive than non-raw ingredients. just making my own raw cookies...if i were to package and sell them myself they would have to be pretty expensive to pay for the ingredients, plus my time to make them, package them, and market them. add the graphic design work for the labels, the cost of using a food grade kitchen, the bookkeeping it takes to track inventory, do billing, etc...it all adds up!

people don't have to buy raw food items that are for sale. they can make them at home if they want to, or not eat them at all. but for some people it's a service that they don't mind paying for.

i support freedom in all ways..making raw food products for sale, buying them, or not..

peace

Communism is the enemy. So is socialism.

Be free and let yourself have the freedom to make money as you wish.
Money is the root of all good.

Wealth is good.People using brains to have a business , good.

Peace and love.


If everything was free, we would have the horrors of soviet russia. We would have no fruit, or vegetables and we would kill each other for moldy millet.

anyone that tells you money is evil, run from





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2007 04:14AM by coconutcream.

The only leeches are those that do not work, but live off lazily, the production of others.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2007 04:27AM by coconutcream.

Coconutcream,

Do you truly believe that philosophy to be true? what do you think about the unemployable elderly? Are they less than worthless now they don't make a buck? What about stay-at-home parents? Their labour of love, raising the next healthy generation, is unpaid. What about people who experience debilitating disabilities? They may not be able to participate in the work force; are they not people deserving of dignity and entitled to the same rights as people who are able bodied and mentally sound? What about american children? They don't work, are they leeches? Where do you draw the line at lazy?

Wealth and abundance are beautiful things. Unfortunately the distribution of resources is disparate. Unfortunately in our SAD economy people have to choose what they will peddle; some to keep themselves and their families alive, some to get their next fix, some to stash more wealth and yet others to adopt a raw vegan lifestyle.

We all have to make difficult decisions. When I remain compassionate and free of judgements I feel I contribute to a healthier society and a more peaceful me.

Socialism is not evil all systems of government have good and bad in them. I for one am glad we have socialize medicine. It shocks me had some people worship money and think everything else is evil.

Well said, anna_elle.

Money is neither good nor bad ... it's simply a tool -- a means of trade.

However, the old adage, "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil" is quite true.

Read Suvine's blog and you'll get an idea... she's libertarian and capitalist to the core now. It's been an interesting transformation to watch. On one hand I completely agree with her in an altruistic sense. However greed tends to push everything over the edge. I don't think that over regulation is good at all. I also know what happens in a vaccuum. It's an interesting paradox to consider.

Go read her blog and be a follower, be insulted by what she says, or simply take her ideas and be inspired to find and create for yourself.

I personally am going to make some money from raw food endeavors. I don't plan to make it my living. I plan to make my living in many different ways. No matter what, our society is based on a monetary system and we live within that system unless we choose to remove ourselves from it. Currently I choose to not participate in the corporate culture because I don't find it personally valuable. I'm not using my "brains" in a way that I see personally and globally beneficial. However, my wife worked at Microsoft this summer and she loved the corporate culture there and found it very rewarding.

I think there is tremendous wisdom in what DavidZaneMason says. Life is your choice and you really do choose your situation. No one made or keeps you poor. People can keep you financially rich, but that comes with a cost as well. If you don't like your situation then change yourself or the world you live in. It's a process but anything can and will happen if you choose to make it so. It's not luck, it's work coupled with tenacity, belief and dedication.

So in essence I think it's fine to make money off raw food if people will pay for it. You don't have to pay for it. I don't have enough $$ currently to participate in a lot of these things, however I don't feel cheated, wronged or annoyed that people are making money off raw food. I live for me and my life and my family and the world. I don't plan to live in envy of others ever again. It'll probably happen in single moments but I'll still be me and I'll still have the capicity to choose whether or not I hold onto that envy.

Choose choose choose

Ha ha, I noticed a change in the tone of her posts, but my views at her age were vastly different from what they are now, and they have evolved and changed as much as was necessary for me to gain something. It's a very desirable thing, I think, to be able to reframe your outlook to support your 'life steps'.


As for life choice, once that idea becomes comfortably ensconced in a mind, it seems to evolve to wanting to help others, not from pity or victim-predator dynamics, but because the strong see a recent version of themselves in the weak. From a position of strength, reaching out and caring is second nature.

morrisson66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go read her blog and be a follower, be insulted by
> what she says, or simply take her ideas and be
> inspired to find and create for yourself.

Not to make this thread about cc, but I personally am not inspired by someone who admires the soulless Ann Coulter, who famously wrote of the 9/11 widows, "I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much."
(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/07/entertainment/main1690954.shtml).

From cc's blog:

"He has a friend AnnCoulter, in Washington DC, who is a writer and very prolific. It really inspires me to write even more, knowing women can be really successful at it. I want to ask him all sorts of questions about her. One day I want him to introduce me to Ann. Although I may be intimidated. I have seen her on tv. She is so cool and a real force. I always thought she was beautiful. She earned her fame that is for sure. You can tell she uses her brain and works. so inspiring. What I notice most, isn't what she says, but how she says it, she is very self confident."
(http://suvine.com/2007/08/14/814.aspx)

Ann Coulter is venomous -- full of hate -- and I am flabbergasted that a self-described fruitarian could admire her.

So, no thanks to reading cc's blog.

OMG.

Ann Coulter = evil incarnate.

initially I had the same response... however I took it as admiration of a woman who took a belief system and created a life around it and a system of wealth. I don't agree with Ann Coulter's methodology or her abject conservatism in the face of idiocy, but I do choose to look things a little differently and choose not to discredit her message based upon who CC admires.

anyway... that's all from me

"[On my saying,"What have I to do with the sacredness of traditions, if I live wholly from within?" my friend suggested--"But these impulses may be from below, not from above." I replied, "They do not seem to me to be such; but if I am the Devil's Child, I will live then from the Devil." No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this, the only right is what is after my constitution; the only wrong what is against it...]" - Emerson

the world is VERY mediated, it can make lots of stuff look good or bad.

anyone not able to look past their value judgment of celebrities, gurus, etc...is in some state of suffering.

for whats its worth howerver, I have heard that fruits and vegetables ARE actually quite abundant in Russia and recently learned that part of it is actually sub tropical..with palm trees LOL.

_____________________



it could be your thoughts...

[www.writerwriterwriter.com]
[www.lulu.com]


short and sweet....and DEEP

_____________________________________________________ ...and FREE



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2007 01:28AM by anaken.

I don't think it's really fair to malign Coconutcream-or anyone else for that matter- because of what she beleives or who she admires. My guess is that each fruitarian is unique, and as a group it seems to me that raw vegans subscribe to a wide range of political, spiritual, and cultural beliefs.

Although, I admit, I challenge some of Coconutcream's pronouncements.

Each of us is a complex individual trying to make the best sense that we can of our world and our place in it. I really think respectful dialogue will further the exploration of the subject at hand (as I see it); money, food and ethics.

interesting discussion

poverty is a frightful thing and few would willingly choose it

the extremely wealthy and the extremely poor are in each others pockets; the one creates the other - this is hard to see, but it is so.

To me, freedom is the ultimate value, not wealth. Therefore I oppose the presumed superiority of wealth and the wealthy. People are successful who follow their hearts, not the money; just ask the millions of monied miserable droning around in their Mercedes SUV's. I oppose the tyranny of wealth that robs the imagination of its fodder and tamps down the creative spark in the service of a security that is largely illusory. I oppose greed and unconscious consumerism that never gives a thought to the ramifications of expensive and unnecessary purchases OR the lasting good that could be accomplished with that money instead.

Recently one of my clients accompanied me to a plant nursery where we were to choose bedding for one of her flower gardens. We both left our purses in the car while we browsed the largely outdoor shop. Her bag was a $800.00 leather designer label get-up that she bought on sale and mine is a $75.00 Travelone made of man-made materials. When we got back to the car, both of our lipsticks had melted; hers a 35.00 tube of Estee Lauder...mine a $7.00 tube of Revlon. See what I'm getting at? The designer bag and lipstick do not work any better than the less pricey; their value is entirely superficial and consensual, not REAL at all, and yet people are knocking themselves out, working jobs that they hate to obtain this kind of false value, and then resenting the needs of even their own relatives and close friends. That I am opposed to.

Otherwise, I think people should make money doing what they love. Money is nothing more or less than energy and we should all expect a fair exchange. Unfortunately, this rarely happens in America. There is too much entitlement and greed here.

khale

khale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The designer bag and lipstick do not work any better
> than the less pricey; their value is entirely
> superficial and consensual, not REAL at all, and
> yet people are knocking themselves out, working
> jobs that they hate to obtain this kind of false
> value, and then resenting the needs of even their
> own relatives and close friends. That I am opposed
> to.

Absolutely! It's like you'll get some rapper or movie star on telly, telling people they need to hand over their money for some charity or another. These are the same people who spend $250,000+ on champagne at their big lavish parties. I don't think I could waste that kind of money and consider myself a good person each time I watch a charity advert of children dying in Africa, knowing what the money would mean to them.

As long as the raw food word gets round, it's all good. The raw food movement isn't about a small, elite group of people who are better than everyone else. It's for everyone, as far wide as it can go, to ensure better health, better environment and better ethics.

Rather than thinking "Pah! ANOTHER raw food shop.", it should be "YAY! ANOTHER raw food shop! That means there's more of a demand and more of a demand = more raw foodists!!!"

Besides, only a certain amount of money can be made out of raw foodism. You don't need cacao or goji berries to live

rawnoggin wrote:

"These are the same people who spend $250,000+ on champagne at their big lavish parties. I don't think I could waste that kind of money and consider myself a good person each time I watch a charity advert of children dying in Africa, knowing what the money would mean to them."


Exactly. Not long ago a friend of mine called me up from New York to tell me about a $12,00 dollar margaretta with gold flakes or some such nonsense that he had enjoyed at a fancy shcmancy club. He got mad at me for making him feel guilty. But, what kind of enjoyment is that really? To me it is the enjoyment of the sound asleep; the numb-nut who mistakenly believes that life consists of accumulating pleasure and to hell with everything and everybody else. This man and I lived together for 12 years and it was exactly this chasm in values that ultimately split us apart. This type of "wealth" bores me to tears. Though I adore him to this day I can not maintain a partnership with someone who has no passion for anything beyond the latest upgrade.

To my vision the raw food movement is most valuable for those who are not medically insured; who are not in possession of tons of cash that they can easily dump into an allopathic physicians lap. (although the rich are not getting better care; they only have easier access and then only to a degree. Nothing levels the playing field between rich and poor more than does a visit to an emergency care facility. This situation does not yield to money. A minimal five hour wait is standard for both rich and poor.) The suffering of the poor who are sick is not something I would wish on anyone. The poor have the greatest incentive of all to take full responsiblility for their own health and even the highest priced supplement is small change compared to the cost of dependency on pharmaceuticals and hospital and doctor bills. And I would agree with Suvine; socialized medicine is a nightmare concept. The solution to the health care crisis in this country is NOT government subsidy but prevention, education and self responsibility.

khale