Hi all.. I'd just like to open this topic up for discussion after reading this artical [www.living-foods.com]
on the subject.
What are experiences have you all had with this product ?

It doesn't agree with me, which doesn't surprise me.

I thought I could use it occasionally (for cravings) as a transition food, but it makes me feel worse than not eating it does.

It made me wired. My guess is the lighter one eats, the more wired you get. I suspect that there are a lot of raw folks whose diets are heavy enough that they don't get wired from raw cacao.

Cooked food used to make me sleppy, so drinking coffee was helpful. I find that eating high fat makes me sleepy too. Cocoa, like coffee, stimulates me. But, me thinks that waking myself up with stimulants is not the optimal solution.


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wow i never would have suspected this. then again, i've never been a chocolate person so i wouldn't know anyway! i've never understood chocolate or why people like it so much. it's bitter tasting.

i grew up hearing "don't feed the dog chocolate it's bad for them they could die!" and it all makes sense now ..

Eating chocolate puts me in a good mood and makes me want to take on the world. But too much and I get jittery and I dont like that. Ive never had raw chocolate so I wonder if that is a different high. I see nothing wrong with using foods and herbs to alter ones mental state as long as potential harmful effects are minimal.

According to that article "The native people who ate it only ate the fruit of the theobroma (which contains all the benefits and none of the detriments)"

So where can we get some cacao fruit if that's better than the bean?

[images.google.ca]

Cacao makes me SUPER dizzy and nauseous.

The other day I had some "raw" hot chocolate....I had to lie down for 2 hours because I was extremely dizzy. I don't usually eat/drink cacao...and after that experience, I don't think I'll be injesting it anymore!

love,
*m*

Cacao may not be raw... check this article out:

Cacao: After harvest cacao pods are piled up to ‘sweat’ or ferment for 3 to 4 days. During this time the temps can reach up to 140f. They are often heated again during the drying process. We would like to find a source for fresh cacao pods, if anyone has one.


For those who are interested here is a link to the article about "raw" foods which we believe are raw, but they aren't really:

[www.purelyraw.com]

Cheers,
Ferg.

This article seems anecdotal to me. Are there studies that substantiate this "My friend Jeremy says" testimony?

I tried some raw cacoa and didn't really notice any effect at all. So I tried eating more of it next time and still didn't notice any effect.

I hate feeling wired & giddy. I like to feel serene & mellow. I'm an energetic person, so I don't need cocoa.

People who eat cocoa and don't feel the effects are like drug addicts who don't feel the effects of their chosen drug if they don't consume a sufficient quantity, or a coffee drinker who needs a second cup in the morning before s/he can function. In other words, stimulants create tolerance levels as the body is forced to accommodate their presence by building protection for itself. Anyone who doubts this needs only to stay raw and eat simply (without stimulating substances like cocoa) for 6 months. Then have some, and feel the effects. It is not a matter of opinion.

Having said that, cocoa is not the worst thing to eat, there are others that are worse. If eating some raw cocoa concoction keeps a person from eating things like donuts, coffee, candy bars, etc., that they might otherwise eat, then a case can be made for keeping them in the diet temporarily, as a bridge food. The person should ultimately strive to give up cocoa completely, however. It is not a healthy food.

Nora
www.RawSchool.com

rawnora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> however. It is not a healthy food.
>

Do you have any info to support this rawnora ?

Isn't there tons of info about the negative effects of cacao?

When I searched it months ago, I found lots of negative opinions in addition to the favourable ones.

In the Hippocrates magazine (Vol 26, Issue 4), the subject of the magazine is "False Foods and Harmful Substances", there is an article on page 16 called "Chocolate: Superfood or Poison?". Here are some tidbits from that article:

Researchers Dr. Paul Crawford and Dr. Michael Simons, in the Journal of Family Practice 2006; 56:62, exposed a direct link between migraines and chocolate consumption.

Another concern is chocolate is always consumed with concentrated sweetners that mess up the blood sugar.

Cacao contains caffeine, a noxious chemical that destroys nutrients and raises the impurity levels of the blood.

Cacao contains theophylline, which has a similar effect as caffeine.

The author of the article shared her experience of eating cacao without a sweetner. On day three of eating it, she wanted to increase her cacao intake. A few days later, she was constantly thinking about eating it, became agitated, and had a hard time sleeping. She had become agressive, yet withdrawn, and hyperactive.

Frederic Patenaude says cacao is a stimulant disguised as a healthy food.

Cacao is fermented, not fresh.

Cacao active ingredient, called methylxanthines, which include the theobromine, caffeine, and theophylline cause a host of symptoms including abnormal glandular growth, nervousness, depression, anxiety, insomnia, gastrointestinal problems, itching, hearth and circulatory issues, nervous disorders, osteoporosis, birthing abnormalities, stomach maladies, nausea, and vomiting. Further, all three are classed as carcinogens. Carcinogenic mold called aflatoxin has been found in large quantities on cacao beans. Cocoa butter and other active ingredients provoke acne outbreaks and dermal infections.

BUT IT MAKES ME FEEL SO GOOD!

Cocaine and heroin make people feel good too. Does that mean the raw versions of those drugs are superfoods?

Hey Bryan,

The wink at the end of my post meant I was kidding (and that I agree with you).





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2007 04:01AM by learningtofly.

Hmm.. so basicly all those who proclaim its benifits and are supposedly health advocates are either brainwashed or greedy then ? .. seems strange.

The whole "raw chocolate" movement was begun by David Wolfe a few years ago. He's a GREAT businessman. Sold it for $32/pound when he first brought it to market (with no competition) in 03/04.

Lightform,

In the original post, the article about cacao spoke of Jeremy Saffron, who first thought raw cacao was great, and he told all his friends. But as he acquired more experience with it, it found out that cacao had problems, and then he quit recommending it and quit selling it and told people about its problems. To me, this demonstrates that has quite a bit of integrity, and is willing to share about his mistakes.

learningtofly,

I missed that point. Thanks for clarifying.

wow, I'm surprised by this, especially considering the current popularity of raw cacao and books like 'Naked Chocolate' by David Wolfe and Shazzie.
I just ordered (and received) a small bag of raw cacao nibs, to try out. I added a spoon of it in a fruit smoothie this morning, and I think it made me slightly 'buzzy', in a pleasant way though.
I had no idea it could be so damaging to the body, I'm shocked.

I'm really surprised to hear all of these not so good responses to cacoa. I've been 100% raw for about 3 1/2 months and consuming a lot of raw cocoa from Sunfood Nutrition (definitely raw). I have also been listening to a lot of David Wolfe and all the wonders he says about cacoa, including it's good impact on the environment and lengthy historical use in central/south America for opening the mind in ritual.

My personal experience has been very positive. These comments are correct in that a lot of you have said that raw chocolate is a stimulant, I can definitely feel that but I think it is a good stimulant. Not at all like coffee or a drug that agitates the nervous system or adrenals. The reason for this is it's high content of several minerals (mg, fe, etc) and antioxidents. Would the body not feel amazingly energized if consuming large amounts of food like this (maybe 10-20 beans a day)?

Also, I've experienced a lot of subtle changes in my perception of the world. I can absolutely sense things at a much deeper level and my eyes pick up any movement around me. I have to say that it feels a bit like a subtle, but manageable "trip." Evidence does show that raw cacoa begins to activate certain parts of the brain which are usually dormant.
Someone mentioned that they experienced sleep disturbance. I also noticed this but I don't feel tired at all! It reminds me of times when I've done long and extended meditation and sleep and waking become almost indistinguishable.
Another major difference that I have observed while eating raw cacao is vivid lucid dreams throughout the night.

One more thing, I work at an all organic juice bar and so I see a lot of people coming in and out every day from all walks of life. We started putting cacao into a superfood smoothie and I've never seen anything like it! People flock to the stuff and come back for more! When my boss starts getting irratic or moody, I just give her one of these cacao drinks and she is giggling with me and happy to be alive within seconds of taking a sip! I've never in my life seen such a universally contageous food, with positive effect. Not like a damaging drug that people are skeptical of.

Well, that's my two sense. I hope you will all respond with your comments, because cacao has clearly become a major part of my raw life.
Best wishes,
Stay raw, stay in the flow!

That's funny to hear about the mind-expanding effects of raw cacao.

There are people who never need such stimulants.

My mind has always been richly endowed with curiosity, ideas, memorization, concept-linking and recreating, borrowing ideas from one body of knowledge to imbue into another, constructing what's discrete, deconstructing what's concrete.......it works on a surface level, a deep philosophical level, levels between the two, with parsimony, with largesse, etc etc etc.


I think it's all there for everyone.

aquadecoco,

I'm sure you don't mean in that way, but your response sounds a bit belittling. it's great that your mind seems to be doing all that by itself, but that does not necessarily count for everyone.
personally, I have always had a clear mind and a great memory, but I got a severe depression two years ago (I'm 29), and the results were quite devastating. I came to a point where I couldn't even remember a phonenumber, or the simplest things. my mind (together with the rest of me) has just recently been recovering from it.

sometimes people need a 'pick me up', or a stimulant; whether it's short- or long-term. and yes, I know that the healing should come from things like nutrition, rest, (mental) exercise, but if people wanna use something like raw cacao, I don't see that much wrong with it. better that than drugs, right?

We are ALL wired with fully functional brains. I have only one brain I can speak about from personal experience, so I used it to illustrate what I wanted to say and then I expanded by saying, "I think it's all there for everyone".

I'm sorry you have had depression.......my coffee-drinking and chocolate-eating exacerbated my depression though I kept using them in an increasingly-futile effort to improve my moods.

That's why I'm expressing doubt about the real effects of cacao.

I think I'm always upset to see other people misled by the same things that I was misled by. I want to urge people to feel their best because I have felt very unwell for over half my life.

Well I learn a lot debating and discussing these foods. My beliefs have come full circle and my practices will catch up eventually.

When I argue about something, it's not aimed at any person, though I am aruging with people - it's a philosophical excercise - I don't know the secrets of the universe, I am just interested in making sense of it.

I strongly believe that all real truths are universal - true for every being regardless of culture, species, etc. and I am interested in these.

Some people are mostly interested in eliminating cooked foods from their diet - which is one end of the spectrum of rawfoodists.

The other end might be the people who are interested in transcending their own best interests and making the best choices they can for all the elements and beings in their environment.

Of course there will be lots of debate sparked as people hash out ideas and carve new beliefs.

I say it leads to other bad things.