I'm a newbie so maybe this topic has been discussed but how do you get enough protein when you eat raw. I've been raw for about 3 months, I love the clean feeling but I'm tired all the time, I know I need protein that I don't get from nuts and seeds, beans and raw egg yolk. What else? Does anyone eat raw meat? Thanks.

Plenty of grass juice is what's needed when transitioning to raw.

you could try spirulina

-Please do a google on 'Nutrient Database'. Then go look up the protein counts in various fresh fruits and vegetables. Ounce for ounce....I don't think you'll be disapointed...or waste away!

-David Mason

1) Put raw foods in mouth
2) Chew thoroughly. Swallow.
3) Repeat if necessary.

Raw Hemp Hearts are major loaded with protein too.

If you are worries baout protien intake, please change that worry into enjoyment of eatting the most healthy, supportive and assimilable protiens available!! Raw Veggetables!!!!

nuts and seeds are loaded with protiens
so are sprouts
so until you feel comfortable trusting the veggie protien power, add more of them to your meals

I haven't figured out about weight gain however.

I also intend to eat the more bothersome members of this board if I seem protein deficient.

---
Doug Graham on protein:

From: Jack the Rawguy (cpe-66-69-223-171.austin.res.rr.com)
Subject: Dr. D on Protein
Date: March 2, 2006 at 1:42 pm PST

In Reply to: Re: Always less than 10% protein in 80/10/10 posted by daveuk01 on March 2, 2006 at 1:14 pm:

Fruit averages about 6% protein, though some fruits are over 10
and the lowest are about 4.
Veggies run from 20-80% calories from protein, and the average is
about 40.
Nuts and seeds offer about 10% of their calories from protein.
I keep my own protein intake in the upper single digits.
Dr D

Proteins are used only in their component parts, amino acids, the
building blocks of protein. While you must consume all 8 essential
amino acids, they are all in most fruits and veggies.
I think the real myth isn't about whether you need complete
proteins at every meal, but about why we should eat our amino
acid ratio in quantities that mimics that found in muscle tissue.
There is just no logic in that one.

As for protein, fruits range from 4-10%. Veggies, about 4-70%
protein.
There is no shortage, in fact, not even a name for a shortage.

Q. Do bodybuilders and athletes need extra protein?
A. I don't think that athletes need exceptionally more protein, but
they do need more calories. A well designed raw diet should supply
sufficient calories for any bodybuilder, and that has been my
experience as well.

Avocadoes are an extremely low protein food, in fact they have no
more
protein per calorie than does a banana. Even nuts and seeds
contain nowhere near the protein per calorie of most vegetables,
which on average contain more than twice the protein per calorie of
nuts and seeds.
I have not yet run into the protein deficient person that was not
also
calorie deficient. My experience has been that when we eat
sufficient
calories from whole foods, our protein needs are quite
satisfactorily met.

----
from [www.healthpromoting.com]:

Where Do You Get Your Protein?
Everything You Need to Know to Answer This Frequently Asked Question

By Alan Goldhamer, D.C.

The role and need for protein is a much misunderstood topic in our society. In this article you will learn how to better understand the role of protein in your diet.

First, let me provide you with a rather technical definition of a protein. A protein is any one of a group of complex organic, nitrogenous compounds, which form the principal constituents of the cell protoplasm. In other words, proteins make up the "guts" of the cells that are the building blocks of our body.

Many of the structural and functional components of our cells are made up of various proteins.

In man, proteins function in many capacities. They act as organic catalysts in the form of enzymes, as messengers such as peptide hormones, as antibodies that protect us from the effect of microorganisms, and as carrier agents in our blood to transport oxygen and other gases, as well as forming structural components of the cell.

The exact human needs for dietary protein are not known. According to The New England Journal of Medicine: "As for human protein requirements, the pendulum is still swinging because our knowledge of precise human requirements and the inter-relationships among them is far more fragmentary and tentative than generally realized."



Amino Acids

All proteins are composed of amino acids. An amino acid is any one of a class of organic compounds containing a certain amino and carboxyl group. The amino acids are the chief building blocks of proteins; that is, proteins are made by putting various amino acids together into specific combinations.

Although there are dozens of naturally occurring amino acids, the proteins in our body are derived from just twenty. Of these twenty amino acids, our body is able to adequately synthesize twelve internally. The other eight amino acids must be derived externally; that is, we must get them in our diet. These eight amino acids that we must get in our diet are called essential amino acids.

Although our body can recycle the essential amino acids, it cannot produce them. Therefore, the diet must provide a supply of them so that the body has enough raw materials in the form of essential amino acids to replace the normal, everyday losses.

These obligatory losses involve the use of amino acids in the production of products that are not recycled, such as purine bases, creatine, and epinephrine. These are degraded to uric acid, creatinine, and epinephrine - and excreted.

Without an outside source of amino acids, the body's reserves of protein would become depleted, and this starvation process would eventually lead to death.

We get these essential amino acids by eating foods that contain them. But eating is not the only consideration. The proteins of plants and animals are useless to us unless our digestive system is able to break them down into their constituent amino acids and absorb them.

Our digestive systems are not designed to absorb the very large protein molecules, only the smaller amino acids and peptides. Once absorbed, these amino acids become the raw materials from which our body can synthesize the many proteins that serve so many vital functions.


Protein Metabolism

Let's look at the actual metabolism of protein. The digestion of dietary protein begins in the stomach with exposure to the enzyme pepsin, which is secreted in the digestive juices and is activated by hydrochloric acid. Contrary to popular opinion, hydrochloric acid does not digest protein, it merely creates an appropriate media in which pepsin can work.

This secretion of hydrochloric acid is followed by the production of other protein digestion factors or proteolytic enzymes by the pancreas and the mucosal cells of the small intestine.

Once the large dietary protein molecules are broken down to their constituent amino acid components, absorption can take place through the mucosal cells of the small intestine.

Amino acids from dietary digestion are not alone, because the ingestion of food-even non-nitrogenous food-stimulates the digestive tract to secrete endogenous protein, derived from the sloughing of intestinal cells and used up digestive enzymes. These recycled proteins are a rich source of essential amino acids.

Studies by Nasset show that regardless of the amino acid mix of the meal, the intestinal tract maintains a remarkably similar ratio of essential amino acids.

This mixing of endogenous and dietary protein is a key concept. Until this was discovered, it was generally believed that in order to absorb and utilize the essential amino acids in the diet, the diet must contain all the amino acids in certain proportions and presented all at the same time.

This mistaken belief dates back to 1914 when Osborn and Mendel studied the protein requirements of laboratory rats. They found that rats grew faster on animal sources of protein than on vegetable sources. This was followed up by studies by Elman in 1939 using purified and isolated amino acids in rats.

We have learned a lot since 1939. But even today many so-called nutrition experts continue to advance this ancient concept, and many of the protein combining and protein quality arguments are based on this misconception.

According to Nasset, writing in the Journal of the American Medical Association, this mixing of endogenous protein is the body's way of regulating the relative concentrations of the amino acids available for absorption.

We now know that the body is quite capable of taking incomplete proteins and making them complete by utilizing this recycling mechanism. It is now clear that more than 200 grams of endogenous protein is added to the 30 to 100 grams of daily dietary protein.

I would like to point out that the earlier research, which is still so often used to support the mistaken idea that all the essential amino acids must be present at the same time at each meal for amino acids to be absorbed, did not even deal with amino acid absorption. It falsely stated that the essential amino acids must be present at the site of protein synthesis, within the cells of the liver, kidney or muscle. Since the recycling effect of the body's amino acids was not yet understood, the assumption was made that the only source of protein was from the diet.

Not only do we get the majority of our amino acids from recycling, but in 1961 Bender showed that an animal was able to maintain slow growth with proteins completely lacking one essential amino acid.

These concepts have been confirmed by Monroe and are reported in the 1983 edition of Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease by Goodheart and Shills.

The important fact here is that the majority of amino acids absorbed from the intestinal tract are derived from recycled body protein. We are in a sense all flesh eaters, a form of self-cannibalization.

Once absorbed, this combination of endogenous and dietary protein passes by way of the portal vein to the liver. The liver monitors the absorbed amino acids and adjusts the rate of their metabolism according to bodily needs.


How Much Protein Do We Need?

We must have a source of protein to replace the amino acids that are not recycled. The question is, "How much?"

This question has been a hotbed of scientific-and not so scientific-debate since 1830 when a Dutch scientist named Mulder coined the term protein.

In 1865 Playfair in England presented studies that led him to believe that the diet of the average healthy man should contain 119 grams of protein a day.

Later a man named Voit studied Munich brewery workers and found they consumed 190 grams of protein a day. Based on his studies of these brewery workers, Voit advocated 125 grams of protein per day. It was not until 1913 that Hindhede looked up the mortality rates of Voit's brewery workers and discovered that most of these individuals died very young.

In 1947 the University of Rochester laboratories had a project to establish the essential amino acid requirements of the adult male rat. In order to keep the intake of calories and nitrogen constant, the animals were fed a synthetic diet by means of a stomach tube. Attempts to relate extrapolations made from this type of study to humans are obviously questionable.

More recent studies of protein metabolism in man have been made using nitrogen balance data as a parameter. Nitrogen balance studies measure the total amount of nitrogen in the form of dietary protein that is consumed and compares that with the total amount of nitrogen excreted in the urine, feces, integumental losses, sweat, hair as well as semen, menstrual fluid and even the breath. The idea is that if the amount of protein eaten is as much as that given off, the body must be getting enough to maintain balance.

All natural foods-from lettuce to nuts-contain varying amounts of protein.

If a varied diet sufficient in calories is consumed, it is virtually impossible to get an inadequate protein intake. Even a diet devoid of concentrated sources of protein such as animal products, nuts and legumes will meet optimum protein needs.

Most conventional nutritional thinking ignores the tremendous contribution of plant foods to our protein needs. Most conventional diets contain only token amounts of these foods, relying instead on high fat, high protein animal products and a conglomeration of refined carbohydrates.


Are We Built to Eat Meat?

Even a brief look at comparative anatomy illustrates quite clearly that man is not designed to be a carnivore. And just because our bodies have a vital need for a substance does not mean that twice or three times our need is even better. In the case of protein, the concept that more is better is dead wrong.

It is interesting to note that most of our teeth are flat for grinding grains and vegetables-and that our hands are better designed for gathering than for tearing flesh apart. Our saliva contains alpha-amylase whose sole purpose is the digestion of carbohydrates. Alpha-amylase is not found in the saliva of carnivorous animals. Carnivores have the capacity to eliminate large amounts of cholesterol, whereas our livers can excrete only limited amounts. Like herbivores, we sweat to cool our bodies rather than pant like carnivores.

Of all animals that include meat in their diet, man is the only animal that is unable to break down uric acid to allantoin. This is due to the fact that man does not possess the necessary enzyme uricase. This leads to an increased possibility of an accumulation of uric acid in the body when animal products are eaten. (Uric acid is an intermediary product of metabolism that is associated with various pathological states, including gout.)

Problems with Meat

Compared to vegetarians, meat eaters have been shown to have massively increased levels of bile acids.

Animal products are a source of parasites and contamination. Uncooked or improperly cooked meat, fish, fowl and dairy products are the source of parasites such as Trichinosis found in pork and pork-contaminated beef, bacterial infection from Salmonellosis found in milk products and other contaminated animal products. There are multitudes of chemical agents such as carcinogenic nitrates, etc. that are added to animal products to slow down their decay, improve their color and alter their taste. Most animal products undergo significant heat treatment before consumption.

The use of heat presents serious problems. For example, a one-kilogram charbroiled steak contains as much of the cancer-causing benzopyrene as from 600 cigarettes. Methyl choanthrene is another example of a carcinogenic substance derived from heated meat. The heating of any fat, including the fats in animal products, can cause peroxidation and the formation of free radicals.

Free radicals are extremely reactive molecules that are capable of damaging almost any cell of the body. Free radicals have been shown to cause alterations to collagen and elastin tissue leading to premature aging of the skin and connective tissue. They contribute to the accumulation of intra-cellular debris such as lipofuscin and creoid and are thought to be an important component in the aging process.

In addition to parasites, bacterial infestation, toxic poisons, carcinogenic agents, and free radicals, animal products all suffer from the problem of biological concentration. Animals consume large quantities of grain, grass, etc., which are to a greater or lesser extent contaminated with herbicides, pesticides, and other agents. In addition, animals are often fed antibiotics and treated with other drugs and toxic agents. These poisons concentrate in the fat of the animal and are present in highly concentrated amount in an animal's milk and flesh. This biological concentration of poisons poses significant threats to the health of humans who consume these concentrated sources of poisons.

As if this weren't enough, animal products are completely devoid of fiber and are extremely high in protein and in spite of what millions of dollars of meat and dairy industry advertising would have you believe it is excess, not inadequate protein, that is the threat to health. Excess protein intake has been strongly implicated as a causal agent in many disease processes including kidney disease, various forms of cancer, osteoporosis and a host of autoimmune and hypersensitivity disease processes.

If animal products are included in the diet in significant quantities, it is virtually impossible to design a diet that is consistent with the overwhelming bulk of evidence in the scientific literature dealing with nutrition.

It is ironic that the chief argument used to promote the use of animal products-that is, the purported need for large quantities of protein-is the greatest reason for avoiding them.

A diet of sufficient caloric intake derived from fresh fruits and vegetables with the variable addition of nuts, whole grains and legumes will provide an optimum intake of protein and other nutrients, 30-70 grams per day, depending upon the particular foods eaten.

Thomas, man, you are hilarious (o:

brome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Plenty of grass juice is what's needed when
> transitioning to raw.

I thought I already covered this in a previous thread:

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

titled:
"are you sure you're not getting enough protein?" please grant me patience

No, grass juice won't give enough protein.
But you'll find that out for yourself when you find
you contnue to be tired.

Lettuce (say like Romaine) is close to 50% protein in terms of percentage of calories. Thats about as high as raw meat.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lettuce (say like Romaine) is close to 50% protein
> in terms of percentage of calories. Thats about as
> high as raw meat.

Yes, maybe it is, but you would have to eat a hell of a lot of lettuce to get as much protein as from a portion of meat!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lettuce (say like Romaine) is close to 50% protein
> in terms of percentage of calories. Thats about as
> high as raw meat.

No, it isn't 50% protein in terms of percentage of calories.
It's around 17% protein in terms of calories.

Also, there's the issue of the limiting amino acid, which
I went over with the broccoli.

Ok with lettuce, the essential amino acid that lettuce provides
the least of, is tryptophan at 12 mg per 100 grams.

I'll re-post this:
________________________________________________________
ok, here are the daily adult requirements for six of them
(Idon't know what saa or aaa stand for):

isoleucine: 1.370 grams
leucine: 3.230 grams
lysine: 2.840 grams
threonine: 1.670 grams
tryptophan: .540 grams
valine: 1.720 grams
___________________________________________________________

So, you need 540 mg of tryptophan per day, and 100 grams
of lettuce only gives you 12 mg. That's only 2.2% of
540 mg. You'd have to eat 45 servings of 100 grams of lettuce
to get 540 mg of tryptophan from lettuce. That's 4,500 grams
or 10 pounds of lettuce.

To quote "The Teahouse of the August Moon": never happen.

Bryan, where do you get these numbers?

hiya,

I don't think grass juice is the key.. it sure helps but I agree with bryan that romaine is great. One thing you can do is have smoothies with a couple of lettuce leaves and some blueberries. Victoria Boutenko has some great ideas on green smoothies. I find that greens help a lot with protein intake.

morrisson66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hiya,
>
> I don't think grass juice is the key.. it sure
> helps but I agree with bryan that romaine is
> great. One thing you can do is have smoothies with
> a couple of lettuce leaves and some blueberries.
> Victoria Boutenko has some great ideas on green
> smoothies. I find that greens help a lot with
> protein intake.

Geez, doesn't anybody want to think about this even
a little around here?

no man I think it's great thing.. I wish I could grow it without mold... but I'm still working on it. My only concern was that 2 people who have started eating raw after talking to me were both concerned about grass juices. I told them they are great and they will feel great drinking them, but both really didn't like the taste of grass juices at all. For one person it made them vommit. With that stuff in mind, I told them they can get their needs met with greens in general and green smoothies and green drinks and sprouts. Does that make more sense now?

I didn't mean to just harsh on your grass juice idea.

kohlrabi_Croce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geez, doesn't anybody want to think about this
> even a little around here?

Yes, but your figures are as bad as Bryans. No-one is going to get all of their trytophan from lettuce. Bananas are high in tryptophan (iirc) so if you work out your figures for a banana and lettuce smoothie then you would have some figures worth discussing.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Funky Rob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kohlrabi_Croce Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Geez, doesn't anybody want to think about this
> > even a little around here?
>
> Yes, but your figures are as bad as Bryans.
> No-one is going to get all of their trytophan from
> lettuce. Bananas are high in tryptophan (iirc) so
> if you work out your figures for a banana and
> lettuce smoothie then you would have some figures
> worth discussing.
>


No, my numbers are not as bad as Bryan's. I can and did do the math
correctly. I do get that you're talking about a semi-balanced diet.
I have to limit myself to being specific about the specific food in
question. I am not going to sit around all day trying to calculate
what everybody's protein is for their entire diet, especially when
most of the time nobody puts any thought into it anyway. I already
did this for broccoli and kale too I believe. That's enough.

But you're not going to sit around and do it for yourself either,
are you?





> Rob

In my opinion, Wheat grass helped me with the transition and helped me detox safely....I didn't mind the taste at all. I also had E3 Live and vitality soup made in the blender every morning that included: kale, collards, rainbow chard, rejuvelac, sprouts, kelp, dulse, and half an avo. This soup still makes me buzz with energy, it's great!

I could see some people vomiting after taking grasses if they are really toxic. I always drank lots of water afterwards and could feel the toxins being released in my blood.

Jen Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion, Wheat grass helped me with the
> transition and helped me detox safely....I didn't
> mind the taste at all. I also had E3 Live and
> vitality soup made in the blender every morning
> that included: kale, collards, rainbow chard,
> rejuvelac, sprouts, kelp, dulse, and half an avo.
> This soup still makes me buzz with energy, it's
> great!
>
> I could see some people vomiting after taking
> grasses if they are really toxic. I always drank
> lots of water afterwards and could feel the toxins
> being released in my blood.

I'm not questioning that there might be something healthy about
wheat grass juice. I'm questioning the protein claims.

Ah, gotcha

kohlrabi_Croce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But you're not going to sit around and do it for
> yourself either, are you?

No, I'm sure I'm getting enough protein - as well as lots of hemp seeds and a variety of other nuts and seeds, I eat some raw dairy and some insects.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

insects?



Studies have shown that Spirulina has 3x more protein than beef and that it is 4x more absorable than beef protein.

Microalgae contain the essence of protein. Relatively umatched, algae is abundant in essential amino acids. (the building blocks of protein)

Ummm....hi. I'm new here -- I thought this was a vegan raw foods area....did I misunderstand? *asked sincerely*

Yummi,

no it's mostly raw vegan.. but take what you want..


Kholorobi... why be so grumpy?

Yummi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ummm....hi. I'm new here -- I thought this was a
> vegan raw foods area....did I misunderstand?
> *asked sincerely*

Yes it is, but it seems to be the best raw forum on the net so some of us who hang out here are not completley vegan. Tell me to shut up if I'm out of order!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Cup for cup, and gram for gram, nuts and seeds contain the highest amount of vegan protein. 1 cup of brocolli (91 grams) contains ONLY 2.6 grams of protein, compared to 1 cup of sesame seeds (144 grams) that contains 25.5 grams of protein and 1 cup of peanuts (146 grams) that contains 37.7 grams of protein.

Comparing the PERCENT of protein in a food to the NUMBER of calories to find foods high in protein is kind of like comparing apples and oranges (pun intended).

All foods are made up of protein, carbohydrates and fats. The PERCENT of protein in a food only tells you how much of that food is protein COMPARED TO CARBS and FATS. A food may be made up of a high PERCENT of protein, but still have a very low AMOUNT of protein, even in very large quantities.

For example, compare the percent of protein in red leaf lettuce to the percent of protein in sunflower seeds (hull included). The lettuce is made up of 31% protein and the seeds are made up of only 14% protein. However, a leaf of the lettuce weighing 17 grams contains only .2 grams of protein with an amino acid score listed as N/A, whereas 15 grams of the seeds contain about 3.5 grams of protein with a high amino acid score.

No matter how much you eat of any kind of food, the PERCENT of protein in that food will remain the same, but you'll be getting more protein if you eat more of the food. The PERCENT of protein in a food will not tell you anything about the AMOUNT of protein you are eating, or whether you are eating ENOUGH protein.

www.nutritiondata.com. gives you all this information on a lot of raw foods.

Also, check the post on this bulletin board by rosemary. It links to a chart on protein. The same post has some very good information on the health problems associated with TOO MUCH protein. In my opinion, the RDA (recommended daily amount) for protein is too much, at least for me.

Many (if not most) vegan foods that are high in protein are also high in fat and calories. That's just a fact of life, but you have to get your calories somewhere. I think we're supposed to work em off.

About the egg yolk - gram for gram, you would get about the same amount of protein and calories from raw peanuts.

Raw wheat germ is an excellent protein source with a very high amino acid score.

Hey ThomasLantern - you are funny!

i've been getting protein from..

flax seed
nutritional yeast
hemp seeds
lentils
spinach
almonds
seeds like sunflower and pumpkin

is tempeh raw.. ?

Ally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Many (if not most) vegan foods that are high in
> protein are also high in fat and calories. That's
> just a fact of life

Maybe for raw vegan foods, but not for vegan foods in general. Legumes and grains are low in fat and full of protein. Like Quinoa, Peas, Lentils, Soybeans, Black Beans, and other beans etc. 22 grams of protein per cup of Quinoa. Hemp has a lot of protein too. I don't know why anyone would rely on lettuce for protein. By eliminating nuts, seeds and legumes etc. you are also limiting a great deal of minerals, not just protein.

Anyways, there is nothing limiting about the amino acids in plant foods if you get the right amount of variety. Many are complete proteins and high in lysine etc. like Quinoa. I agree though that the volume of food that we can and will eat as normal portion sizes for that food and how much protein is in that portion and meal is more important then % of calories or grams. Spirulina might be 60-70% protein by weight but a portion size of it is only like 3 grams and it's low in calories, so how many grams of protein is that? Only like 1.7 grams according to Earthrise. [www.vitacost.com]

I think one of the biggest myths out there though is that fatique is a symptom of protein defficiency. It's almost always not. It's more likely detox, low iron or low B vitamins. Or adrenal fatigue. Try Maca and Royal Jelly. And eat more B vitamin foods.