Heh, I didn't say I didn't appreciate science... but in the end, it is guessing.
I should perhaps be more specific. When I say "guessing", I mean anything that is not verifiable by logic. But I digress, this is not the subject at hand so I should just be quiet about it, for now. Thanks for the reply

Ok. I went to fitday, and entered in 1 cup of romaine lettuce. It said it was 59% protein, 24% carb, and 16% fat.

Going to nutritiondata.com, romaine is 67% carb, 15% fat, and 18% protein.

Going to nutridiary.com, romaine is 63% carb, 13% fat, and 24% protein.

I think I know what is going on.

The carb calories contain the fiber calories on nutritiondata and nutridiary. The carbs are 1/3 sugars, and 2/3 fiber. Well, if you throw out the fiber, since we don't digest the fibers, the percentages in nutritiondata and nutridiary start looking like fitday.

That being said, a pound of romaine only has about 100 calories. That means with the fitday numbers, thats about 59 calories if you eat an entire pound.

In any case, all I ever said was that romaine has a high percentage of protein per calorie consumed. This is not the same as saying that it has a high amount of protein per volume or weight eaten.

I've been eating a 100% raw diet for over 4.5 years. I have never had any protein deficiency problems.

Thank you ThomasLantern!

Bryan,

I'm wondering too why fitday's caloric ratio data on the romaine is so much different from nutrition.com. Maybe it's for just the reason you wrote about above, but it would be nice to know for sure.

I know that nutrition.com gets their information from the US Dept. of Agriculture. But I couldn't find any references sited anywhere on fitday.

Maybe the references are there, so if you see them, could you let us know?

I had previously emailed nutrition.com because there was a discrepency between their data and the CDC's data on an item. Nutrition.com emailed me back within just a few hours. (I was impressed!).

So I decided to email fitday about the discrepency. I asked them why the data was different, and where their information came from. I also suggested that they add a protein chart to their REPORTS section under their NUTRITION subsection. The NUTRITION subsection includes charts on vitamins and minerals and analyses on whether the user is getting enough of each, but for some reason, there is no chart on protein (that I could find).

I think that might be confusing for some people, because the caloric ratio pie with it's information on protein percent is so big and bold, but then there is no further protein information.

Anyway, I'll let you and others know if I find anything out.

But if you do see references on the site, or if you see anywhere else that has a protein chart (maybe I missed it), could you let us know?

You know, I think this discussion is important really only because I like to see people on the right page as far as available data, but I've never personally felt the need to check whether my protein was adequate. My concerns in the past have always been more for mineral consumption, and that's the only reason I've ever used the charts. I've always figured I was getting enough protein because in order to get all the minerals, I eat a variety of nuts and seeds, which also contain a lot of protein. But maybe I'll learn something through this, I guess I could be lacking in one or another of the amino acids.

This forum is great because so far I've come across so much new information, not to mention the supportive atmosphere of the people.

Best wishes, Ally

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok. I went to fitday, and entered in 1 cup of
> romaine lettuce. It said it was 59% protein, 24%
> carb, and 16% fat.

NO,wrong. Please look here:

[www.fitday.com]

It says romaine is 2% protein. There's a funky thing
about this web site: after you choose romaine lettuce, you have
to change the amount to one cup shredded, then tell it to "refresh
nutrients." Then you get the right data for one cup of shredded
roamine. I can't psot that link directly. Then you have to look at
the ugly black and white table that is titled: "nutrition facts,"
on the left.

>
> Going to nutritiondata.com, romaine is 67% carb,
> 15% fat, and 18% protein.

you are _still_ looking at the caloric ratio chart.

Whne this screen comes up:

[www.nutritiondata.com]

you have to scroll down past the pretty graph charts, down
to the ugly tables with green and black bars on the tops.
On the right side, there is one titled "protein and amino acids."
That is the one with the info you need to look at. Ugly green
and black bars, not pretty graph charts. Ok?

Again, this site also says that romaine lettuce is about 2%
protein.

>
> Going to nutridiary.com, romaine is 63% carb, 13%
> fat, and 24% protein.

[tinyurl.com]

No, wrong. You are still looking at the calorie distribution.
Forget the pretty graph chart, and look instead at the ugly
"Nutrition Analysis" table on the left. That's what you need
to look at. See where it says Protein 1.2 grams. That's
1.2 grams out of 100 grams of lettuce.

So let's say I have $100, and I only give you a dollar and twenty
cents out of it. That's not very much, is it? You can't even buy
a half pound of raw cashews for that much. But I still have $98.80.
I can't use it for cashews, but I can get lots of other things with it.


>
> I think I know what is going on.
>
> The carb calories contain the fiber calories on
> nutritiondata and nutridiary. The carbs are 1/3
> sugars, and 2/3 fiber. Well, if you throw out the
> fiber, since we don't digest the fibers, the
> percentages in nutritiondata and nutridiary start
> looking like fitday.

NO, they are all using the same basic substance, raw,
unprocessed lettuce, which is mostly water! It's
95% water! See that on nutritiondata.com!

<snip>

>
> In any case, all I ever said was that romaine has
> a high percentage of protein per calorie consumed.
> This is not the same as saying that it has a high
> amount of protein per volume or weight eaten.

That's not quite what you said. Here's what you said:
"
Lettuce (say like Romaine) is close to 50% protein in
terms of percentage of calories. Thats about as high as
raw meat."

The problem with putting it this way is it gives people the
impression they can get all the protein they need from eating
green veggies, when in fact, green veggies are low in protein.

That is why I'm going to such lengths to dispel this idea.

Question: why don't more of you eat raw sprouts?


>
> I've been eating a 100% raw diet for over 4.5
> years. I have never had any protein deficiency
> problems.

Again, and yet again, I'm not arguing against a raw food diet.

I hope you might go back and read Ally's illustration about
Mr. lettuce and Mr. peanut. It might really help.

ok, I'll make it easier:

Here's the info from fitday, corrected for
the amount of one cup of lettuce:

Nutrition Facts

Amount Per 1 cup shredded
Calories 7.84
Calories from Fat 1.01

% Daily Value *
Total Fat 0.112g 0%
Saturated Fat 0.0146g 0%
Polyunsaturated Fat 0.0594g
Monounsaturated Fat 0.00448g
Cholesterol 0mg 0%
Sodium 4.48mg 0%
Potassium 162.4mg 5%
Total Carbohydrate 1.33g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0.952g 4%
Protein 0.907g 2%
Alcohol 0g

Vitamin A 29 % Vitamin C 22 %
Calcium 2 % Iron 3 %
Vitamin D 0 % Vitamin E 1 %
Thiamin 3 % Riboflavin 3 %
Niacin 1 % Folate 19 %
Vitamin B-6 1 % Vitamin B-12 0 %
Phosphorus 3 % Magnesium 1 %
Zinc 1 % Copper 1 %

*Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your
calorie needs.
________________________________________________

see: Protein 0.907g 2%

It's 2% protein. We now have four sites that confirm it -
these three along with the one rawgosia posted.

To conclude: green veggies do not give enough protein.
They have other good things in them, but not enough of
protein.

seaweed has an amazing amount of protein, its hard to find and get though,
i get my protein from

almond butters,
raw meat (sometimes),
raw eggs(mostly)
Brewers Yeast,
raw cocoa
Hemp protein powder, (raw)
Bee pollen
and apple cider vinegar



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2006 02:57AM by jdc5390.

That's good info from fitday, Kohlrabi! Thanks!

Id like to change one thing I wrote in my last post. Looking back, I do remember having protein concerns, and that was because I was not feeling as satisfied after eating as I thought I should. That's when I began adding raw wheat germ to my salads, and that seemed to help a lot. Wheat germ is packed with protein.

On May 25 Rosemary posted a topic she called "Sprouts Chart" where she gives a link to www.easygreen.com. You can go to the page called "Protein Comparison of dried Sprouts vs. Common Foods" and then scroll down to the chart called "Protein Content of Sprouts and Other Vegetarian Foods". There you will find a list of 34 different vegetarian foods and their protein count in terms of how many grams protein for 100 grams of each food.

Wheat germ was listed as providing the third most protein of all the other items on the chart (26.6 grams of protein per 100 grams of wheat germ). Since the first two items were dry alfalfa grass (not sprouts) and soybeans (dry, unsprouted), the wheat germ topped the chart as far as items I would consider edible in their raw state.

Peanuts were just under wheat germ at 26.0 grams of protein per 100 grams of peanuts.

Other items on the list included alfalfa sprouts, supplying 4.0 grams of protein per 100 grams of sprouts and looseleaf lettuce supplying 1.3 grams of protein (third from the bottom of the list). The lettuce figure jives almost perfectly with what Kohlrabi is saying.

I didn't see the reference for the charts.

-Ally



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2006 03:30AM by Ally.

Ally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's good info from fitday, Kohlrabi! Thanks!

yer welcome Thanks for explaining it all better
than me.

Raw wheat germ...there ya go. What do you do with it?

ThomasLantern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heh, I didn't say I didn't appreciate science...
> but in the end, it is guessing.
> I should perhaps be more specific. When I say
> "guessing", I mean anything that is not verifiable
> by logic. But I digress, this is not the subject
> at hand so I should just be quiet about it, for
> now. Thanks for the reply


That's Ok thomas, thanks for the appreciation.

kohlrabi_Croce,

Of the calories I get from lettuce, a reasonable percentage is from protein. Even fruit has 3% to 5% protein. I don't care about grams, but about percentages of calories consumed. The percentage of weight that you are mentioning is meaningless to me, as all of raw foods is high in water weight. The reason cooked vegetables have a higher percentage of protein by weight is because the water is cooked away. Does this make cooked vegetables more important for protein consumption that raw vegetables? No. Why? Because the cooked protein is dead and coagulated and is considered a waste product by the body. Is there much usable protein in a hambuger? No. The protein has been tainted by cooking, the amino acids rendered useless. So even though a pound of lettuce might have only a few grams of protein, all of it is usable by the body. There may be zero grams of usable protein is a hamburger patty.

I have been eating this way for over 4 years, at 100% raw, and I don't experience any protein deficiency. My guess is because produce that humans are supposed to eat have high enough amounts of protein for humans to thrive.

kohlrabi_Croce, it's not 2% protein, look again, it's 2% of the US RDA in protein.

Of course arguing one way or another is silly. I'm sure we all can agree romaine lettuce is not exactally a protein powerhouse.

It's certainly good in salads though.

Cheers you percentage lovin' fools!

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kohlrabi_Croce,
> Because the cooked
> protein is dead and coagulated and is considered a
> waste product by the body. Is there much usable
> protein in a hambuger? No. The protein has been
> tainted by cooking, the amino acids rendered
> useless. So even though a pound of lettuce might
> have only a few grams of protein, all of it is
> usable by the body. There may be zero grams of
> usable protein is a hamburger patty.
>

Bryan, that's bunk man and surely you don't believe it. Would you be willing to put your life savings on the line saying that a human being eating a burger with lettuce on it will absorb more protein from the lettuce than the burger?

There are plenty of reasons to go raw without specious arguments like "tainted by cooking", "cooking renders amino acids useless". If that were the case most of the world's population would have died of protein deficiency years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2006 08:14AM by NNNNNarz.

NNNNNarz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kohlrabi_Croce, it's not 2% protein, look again,
> it's 2% of the US RDA in protein.

Narz,

What it says is % daily value. It's not clear to me that they mean
RDA.

If I go by pure percentage, it's even less. 1.2 grams out of 100
is only 1.2 %, not 2%.

>
> Of course arguing one way or another is silly.
> I'm sure we all can agree romaine lettuce is not
> exactally a protein powerhouse.



Well, that's the thing. It has been argued that lettuce
and other green veggies are in fact protein powerhouse enough,
and they aren't. Maybe for you it seems silly, because you get
it, but not everyone does.

>
> It's certainly good in salads though.

no argument there.

>
> Cheers you percentage lovin' fools!

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kohlrabi_Croce,
>
> Of the calories I get from lettuce, a reasonable
> percentage is from protein. Even fruit has 3% to
> 5% protein. I don't care about grams, but about
> percentages of calories consumed.


Well, the problem with calculating it that way has already
been pointed out, so if you're not interested in learning
about that, that's up to you. It's not a good thing to try
to spread around to other people though.

>The percentage
> of weight that you are mentioning is meaningless
> to me, as all of raw foods is high in water
> weight. The reason cooked vegetables have a higher
> percentage of protein by weight is because the
> water is cooked away. Does this make cooked
> vegetables more important for protein consumption
> that raw vegetables? No. Why? Because the cooked
> protein is dead and coagulated and is considered a
> waste product by the body. Is there much usable
> protein in a hambuger? No. The protein has been
> tainted by cooking, the amino acids rendered
> useless. So even though a pound of lettuce might
> have only a few grams of protein, all of it is
> usable by the body. There may be zero grams of
> usable protein is a hamburger patty.
>
> I have been eating this way for over 4 years, at
> 100% raw, and I don't experience any protein
> deficiency. My guess is because produce that
> humans are supposed to eat have high enough
> amounts of protein for humans to thrive.

Are you saying that you try to get the majority of your protein
from green veggies, and that you get enough protein that way?
It's important to clarify this, and you haven't clearly
stated that.

No, I get the marjority of my protein from fruit. If I eat 1500 calories in a day, maybe 1300 to 1400 of those calories are coming from fruit. Only 100 calories is coming from greens for me. Since the bulk of my calories come from fruit, the bulk of my protein comes from that same fruit.

By the way, when I am determining how much food to eat, I don't calculate grams of protein or grams or carbs to see if I have eaten enough. My body asks for fruit, and I eat enough fruit until I no longer desire any more. When I first started raw, I was unable to eat enough fruit to get full. But my body has changed - my stomach can hold more fruit, the markers about hunger versus fullness have changed, and my caloric intake from my SAD days have dropped because there is so much more usable nutrition in raw foods than in cooked foods. But though I eat fewer calories that in my SAD days, it takes me much longer to eat that food. I could go through a 1500 calorie meal at MacDonalds in 10 minutes before. It now takes me an 30-45 minutes to eat a 800 calorie meal of fruit and greens.

Narz,

Look at that guy who make the Supersize me movie. When he ate only at MacDonalds, he started getting super sick. We don't have any examples of people living only on cooked hamburger patties. The human body is amazing in how it can adapt to all kinds of input. But even in the SAD world, how many of those people will thrive on a monodiet of cooked hamburger patties? I have to wonder if a person eating only romaine lettuce versus a person only eating cooked BigMac patties would have more or less difficulty with their energy and their health after 1 month of such a diet.

Bryan,

Do you eat all just fruits and greens 7 days a week? Do you ever eat any nuts or seeds or any products from nuts or seeds?

If you don't ever eat nuts or seeds, why not?

-Ally

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Narz,
>
> Look at that guy who make the Supersize me movie.
> When he ate only at MacDonalds, he started getting
> super sick. We don't have any examples of people
> living only on cooked hamburger patties. The human
> body is amazing in how it can adapt to all kinds
> of input. But even in the SAD world, how many of
> those people will thrive on a monodiet of cooked
> hamburger patties? I have to wonder if a person
> eating only romaine lettuce versus a person only
> eating cooked BigMac patties would have more or
> less difficulty with their energy and their health
> after 1 month of such a diet.


One month doesn't prove anything.

Anyway, I'm not fan of cooked hamburger patties but the Supersize me example is an extreme one because he also ate fries, drank sodas and all kinds of other crap. Lots of tribal people have the bulk of their diet as cooked meat.

I don't think it's optimal (which is why I'm vegetarian/mostly vegan) however it might help to refine your argument if you want to reach a larger (and more scientific minded) audience.

I respect the fact that you are passionate about the raw vegan diet, specifically your high fruit/low fat version thereof, however if you genuinely believe it's best and want to convert people that you also believe it can help perhaps you should try to move past some of the old-school raw vegan propaganda.

Your body talks and this is also called INSTINCT! Instinct isn't saying you should eat cooked, drink sodas and fries. Not even cooked vegan diet.

Does this sound "unscientific"? Read then this:

[www.geocities.com]

I cannot persuade you, only yourself can do that leap over to the "green side". =)

Yours // Jacob
www.levandefoda.se

Ally,

I do eat nuts and seeds. I just limit the quantity to a small amount, and not every day. I prefer seeds over nuts, and nowadays I consume hemp seeds and sesame seeds.

I've noticed that when I do eat a significant amount of fat in a meal, I feel slow and groggy afterwards, and even the next morning. Also, sometime after a fat meal I have a desire for something sweet. I feel much better when I start a meal with fruit, let it digest for a while, and then eat mostly greens afterwards and a little bit of fat in the form of whole foods (no oils), say avocados or seeds or nuts. When I eat seeds, they are typically blended into a dip or a dressing.

That being said, I also ocassionally enjoy macadamia, pistachios, and almonds.

Bryan,

Isn't it interesting, your diet is almost exactly like mine, only for some reason I have a harder time with greens than with nuts or seeds.

The greens have the same effect on me that the fats have on you - they make me feel slow and groggy. In fact just like you and the nuts, I definitely feel groggy the next day after eating greens, especially early in the morning. After a few days without the greens though, I start to crave them. If I only eat a salad a couple of times a week, I can handle the greens a lot better.

Anyway, I find that interesting. Also, I'd be willing to bet you're getting most of your protein from the seeds and nuts you eat even though you're eating only a little bit, but I guess that debate could go on forever!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kohlrabi,

You asked me what I do with the wheat germ. I sprinkle about 1/4 cup on my salads(although it might be more since I've never measured it). Then I use a dressing of cold pressed olive oil and fresh lemon juice. I like the red leaf lettuce, and now I'm putting chopped fresh parsley and dulse in my salads, as well as cucumbers, tomato, arugula, spinach, kale or whatever I happen to have Anyway, the wheat germ tastes REALLY GREAT that way! Something about the olive oil and the wheat germ and the lettuce together like that. REALLY GOOD (I think). Refrigerate the package after you open it.

Love, Ally

Love, Alley

Ally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bryan,
>
> Isn't it interesting, your diet is almost exactly
> like mine, only for some reason I have a harder
> time with greens than with nuts or seeds.
>
> The greens have the same effect on me that the
> fats have on you - they make me feel slow and
> groggy. In fact just like you and the nuts, I
> definitely feel groggy the next day after eating
> greens, especially early in the morning. After a
> few days without the greens though, I start to
> crave them. If I only eat a salad a couple of
> times a week, I can handle the greens a lot
> better.
>
> Anyway, I find that interesting. Also, I'd be
> willing to bet you're getting most of your protein
> from the seeds and nuts you eat even though you're
> eating only a little bit,


yes, that is most likely. Fruitarianism is way out there
on the edge, so I will try not to comment on it, except to say
that this is not quite a fruitarian forum, and I hope that
fruitarians won't spout their own beliefs here.




>but I guess that debate
> could go on forever!
> --------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------
>
> Kohlrabi,
>
> You asked me what I do with the wheat germ. I
> sprinkle about 1/4 cup on my salads(although it
> might be more since I've never measured it). Then
> I use a dressing of cold pressed olive oil and
> fresh lemon juice. I like the red leaf lettuce,
> and now I'm putting chopped fresh parsley and
> dulse in my salads, as well as cucumbers, tomato,
> arugula, spinach, kale or whatever I happen to
> have Anyway, the wheat germ tastes REALLY GREAT
> that way! Something about the olive oil and the
> wheat germ and the lettuce together like that.
> REALLY GOOD (I think). Refrigerate the package
> after you open it.


Thanks, I'll try that.

Fruitarian = eats fruit
fruit = raw food
This is a raw food site, fruitarians can express their beliefs as they see fit.

ThomasLantern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fruitarian = eats fruit
> fruit = raw food
> This is a raw food site, fruitarians can express
> their beliefs as they see fit.

And when they try to slip in their ideas unannounced,
as though others should accept them, I take exception to
that.

They should say something like, "I am a fruitatiarian,
and these are my ideas as a result," not just: "This is
the way things work." That's the attitude I pick up from
people like Bryan and rawgosia.

I don't see how what they are doing is really any different from what you have been doing...

ThomasLantern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see how what they are doing is really any
> different from what you have been doing...

well, here's the thing:

I am not trying to present any fringe ideas, that have no
scientific proof. I'm trying to do the opposite.
I am not trying to convince anyone to stop eating
a raw diet. I'm trying to focus on how one could get
proper nutrition with those parameters.

I don't feel that knowing these two are largely fruitarian
has undermined what I've been trying to do on this thread,
because I would have done it anyway, even if I had known
from the beginning.

The thing that bothers me about it, is when some poor newbie comes
in asking for advice, and wants to know about geting enough protein,
and some fruitarian pops up and tells them to eat like he
or she does. The newbie may or may not want to go that far out on the
fringe. Most of us are more reasonable, and more concerned about getting
a balanced diet. Diet is serious stuff; and dietary advice is getting
close to being something like medical advice.

I guess the solution is for someone to warn the newbies about who the
fruitarians are, and how their view of diet differs from that of
regular raw vegans, since the fruitarians themselves won't take
the responsibility to do that.

I see that this surprising discussion is still going on. I am really surprised, because I have never seen and statistical or even anecdotal evidence that specifically raw foodists should worry about becoming protein defficient. On the contrary. I see raw foodists who heal themselves from all sort of problems, and transform their bodies. I see kids growing up on an all-raw diet in all-raw families, beginning from being in the womb. Myself, I have never observed a hint of evidence that I should worry about protein deficiency and tailor my diet to avoid it. Not at all. I simply eat when hungry and eat what tastes good at the moment. Same with my husband. Same with my children. Same with my many friends. Surely, if there were any reasons to worry about protein deficiency, I would have noticed something by now.

Do I know to count, do I read published research? Yes to both questions. PhD and MSc in Applied Maths here, with a solid background in probability and statisitics. I am a scientist. My scientific conclusion of the analysis of the various approaches to raw food diet is that it is not our intelect that holds the answers to the question about the ideal diet, but our body. Intelect is usuful of course, but should not be used to override the information that body provides.

Am I a fruitarian??? Well, I have never defined myself as such. I eat what I want, and I do not follow any external rules. I do not strive to become this or that. I love eating raw foods. Bulk of what I eat happens to be fruit, and this is not because I think that I should be eating fruit, but because I find fruit most satisfying and hydrating food.

By the way, I have been on this board since 2003. Hardly unannounced.

If you are a newbie, rest assured that you do not need to do anything to avoid protein deficiency. You do not need to tailor your diet, you do not need to try making it a balanced diet, and you do not need to focus on getting enough of something in your diet (such as protein, for example). I have one word of advice though. It seems to me that many problems that arise during transition process correspond to overintelectualizing, instead of trying to regain one's touch with one's body. Take for example, eating raw foods that one thinks they should eat, rather than eating raw foods that one loves. This type of behaviour could lead to deficiencies, in my opinion. I recommend that, instead, you eat raw foods you love*** and be open to transformation. Transition is a very interesting and sometimes surprising process. It can actually be very enjoyable watching oneself progrees to levels one would never expect to get. Once can learn a lot through this. I certainly do.

***Interestingly, this type of approach has a good biological explanation. Scientists do begin to support it with some research:
Gietzen DW, Rogers QR
Nutritional homeostasis and indispensable amino acid sensing: a new solution to an old puzzle
TRENDS IN NEUROSCIENCES 29 (2): 91-99 FEB 2006
(see also a plain language commentary at [www.bio.com])

Regards,
Gosia.
(http://www.rawgosia.com)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2006 11:20PM by rawgosia.

Hi all

just a couple of points:

firstly, re the comparison between computer science and biological science: I feel this isn't really a very useful analogy. Despite what biomedicine has tried to convince us for the past couple of hundred years, the human body is not a 'machine'. It is a living, breathing entity; affected not just by toxins and microbes but also by many diverse social factors. Biological science does not consist of objective ‘facts’. It is merely a succession of theories which are constantly being disproved and reshaped in keeping with current beliefs.

Secondly, re the fruitarian issue: I personally welcome the input of the fruitarians who post here – I generally find them an inspiring influence on this ‘community’. And just one more thing - raw vegans who happen to eat a large percentage of fruit are not fruitarians – they are raw vegans. How would one define a ‘regular’ raw vegan anyway? Are we all to fill in a questionnaire so that our diet can be ‘approved’ before we answer any newbie questions?

Kohlrabi_Croce,

When writing about the wheat germ, I forgot to mention one very important thing. Don't buy it bulk out of the bin. It's much better and fresher if it's prepackaged. You can usually find the packaged wheat germ in the baking section of the health food store, or even in the refrigeration section. The wheat germ from the bulk bins is kind of nasty little stuff compared to the nice, big sweet fresh flakes in the package. The bulk stuff could very well be rancid.

Sorry about that,

Ally

Rawgosia said it all don't worry about a protien deficiency.

I agree as long as you eat enough to satisfy your everyday needs you should have no problem but if you decide to live on air then that is a different story.

I have been hearing about a protien deficiency for thirty three years when I first became a Vegetarian I was told that I might get a protien deficiency and when I became a Vegan they said I would not get enough calcium.

It is not a lack of protien that is the problem it is to much.

Just make sure you eat enough and there should be no problem.

I have been on this board since 2001 back and forth thru all the changes and always enjoy the long drawn out debates.

Love Peace and Happiness,
Cherimoya