Its me again. I have another inquiry. My sister, my dad, and my man and I 9and hopefully other family and friends) are looking to homestead ASAP! Does anyone know of any land for sale? ANYWHERE? Or suggest looking in a certain area or places to avoid? This is a two part question...I have read Survival in the 21st Century and I have been feeling the urgency to be somewhere safe and self sufficient. I freak out at times actually. I don't know all of your opinions on the apocalypse or what the future holds, (I guess that could be another subject entirely), but let's just say we want to find somewhere fast because its not too fun (for anyone I realize, especially those who are aware of the lack), and especially not too fun now that I am raw vegan and realize that there is hardly any real food available unless you search out the co-ops and pay way too much money for basic survival and necessities that should be free anyway, I'm sure you all agree... So, what are your ideas on the safest places to live? Is Big Island Hawaii a good idea? Viktoras said to find a place that no one else would want to go..the Essenes went to the Dead Sea...and he said wait until the rebirth to find your tropical home in the mountains. I hear of so many raw foodists trying to get away to the tropics...but is it the appropriate thing to do? Should we be trying to live in less welcoming areas? Anyway, just your thoughts on the subject would be awesome! I guess Big Island would be pretty secluded unless people start swimming across. I am just so lost in this big world! Does it really matter where? Well the tropics would be damned nice! Is anyone looking for financial partners?

Opinions:

I have done A LOT of research into this. Here's the skinny:

-Land prices (and housing are STILL very high)....but there are always deals and auctions out there....when you have cash (or credit) in hand!

-So: financing aside....you need to decide on a place. First decide if you want to be in America. If you do, then decide if you want to be in a non-snow area.....or if snow is all right for you.

-If you want to be in a warm area (like myself) then you are talking the far southern states (like California, Texas & Florida....or Hawaii).

-If you are talking personal survival....I would avoid low-lying coastal areas (to avoid floods / tsunamis) at sea level. I would also avoid highly volcanic areas like California, Hawaii & the Northwest.

-I would build at a higher elevation....somwhere where there is good drainage (not much standing water)....and where a good well can be sunk.

-I would buy agricultural zoned land.

-I would purchase land that is well away from an urban area....but still connected to a paved road.

-My personal preference is for Central Florida...well above the flood plains. I'm 150 ft. above sea level here in Avon Park. That is where I'm building my farm...on 3 acres of land! The house should start construction in a month or so! I bought my land for $8,000 an acre....now it's $27,000 an acre. Land prices are scary....but this should be at least leveling off in a few years.

-There is NO substitute for going to the area where you decide to be....and driving around...and seeing what's for sale. Rural properties will OFTEN not be listed with a realtor (although I found mine through a local realtor).

-Again: make sure there is no standing water...and no easements on liens on the property. Make sure the buyer has an official site survey or pays for one as a condition of the sale (about $500.00).

-Find out if there are any 'impact fees' in the county you wish to build in (call the county Builder's Office). They can be extensive.

-I'm standing by to answer any questions, or talk about any of my own experiences.

-David Mason

Woh! Its so much to think about! I have been incredibly overwhelmed by it all. But I am taking it one day at a time. Taking deep breaths. There is a whole world out there! I grew up in New England so I can handle snow. Definitely. I think it would be fun and creative to homestead in a place with four seasons, but THERE ISN'T ENOUGH FRUIT! Oh man...eventually we could have a lot of good stuff going but just the thought of the cravings I am going to have until I have a garden going is making me sad. 150 feet above sea level doesn't seem too high but I guess the ocean is only supposed to raise about 20 feet in the next 100 years anyway...hmm..Florida sounds somewhat inviting. Someone else suggested it to me too. I just always ruled it out because of hurricanes. Its hard to make any judgment about an area until you actually go there. I would like to find a place in the U.S. If I didn't have family in the U.S. I would probably leave and never come back, but for now the U.S. is going to have to do, so I guess I have that much figured out. Thanks for your suggestions though. I will probably refer to them a couple times. Oh wait, do you know of any rural mountainous places down south, the deep, warm south, I should look into with hippie communities? Hmm...yeah...I should check out the south a little more...Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee...warm rural mountains. Sounds so nice. Do you know anything about Arizona? What is your area in Florida like?

LOL.

-I'm partial to Florida. I grew up here (although I went to school in Utah & Idaho). I like the growing options that living in a non-snow zone provides. I find it sunnier, warmer & just more inviting. There are no State income taxes in Florida (or in Texas for that matter).

-Housing prices used to be VERY inexpensive in Central Florida........these days I have little advice....except to shop around thoroughly with cash in hand until you can cut a deal. Getting pre-qualified for a mortgage is almost a necessity - I think.

-I'm in the region that grows most of the oranges here in Florida (Highlands County). I can walk out my front door and pick enough oranges to last months! Ha! ha!

-I'm far enough North to have actual seasons.....but only an occasional frost......and of course...no snow. Florida gets very warm over the summer.....but not the same kind of desert heat you'd get in Arizona. There are rolling hills here in Central Florida (although South Florida is very flat). You don't start getting mountains....I think.....until you get out of Florida and into the southern states....but then you've got snow and very cold temperatures.

-After you get a good idea where you want to go....then you just have to do your budgeting and acquire whatever job / finances you are going to need. I'm afraid, in America, they aren't really giving land away anymore! At least - not to MY knowledge! Ha! ha!

-More land is great......but you CAN get less expensive land in agricultral Zone. Just look for an isolated lot. THEN you can put a fleetwood home on it: www.fleetwood.com. That will only cost you a mortgage of about $65,000. Much cheaper.

-Just some suggestions.

-David Mason

The NorthWest is "highly volcanic"?

By the marika, where do you live now? How much money do you have? What is your work experience?

If "society" did collaspe tommorrow (which I doubt it will, maybe 2009, 2010) how would you want to spend the rest of your life? What type of climate?

Personally Florida is too flat for me and with too many hurricanes and too isolated, Southern California is too dry. The NorthEast gets too cold and is too crowded. That's why I'm still looking, same as you. I've heard really good things about Northern California and Oregon. People say it rains too much in the NorthWest but personally I like the rain. And in survival terms (if water supplies ever get disrupted) more rain is better than too little. If major power, food and water disruptions do occur certain places (like Arizona, New Mexico) will probably have rapid, rapid emigration and depopulation. Florida is a little dry for my tastes too. A lot of fruit, vegetables, a few nuts can grow there but only with massive amounts of irrigation.

I'm curious to study more about various areas. Let me know if you find any good books, resources or websites.

Cheers,
Narz

Full-on man. This is just in the last couple of weeks!

[www.pnsn.org]

-David Mason

Yeah that's some great advice. Umm, I am living in Arcata, California right now and its too close to the ocean to homestead I think. If I were to homestead here it would be east a little, maybe Mt. Shasta area or in Oregon? I don't know. I have only been here a couple of months and I am headed back east to hook up with family and friends who have the same vision. We are going to pool our money. We are hopefully going to decide on an area soon and go live there to get an idea. What do you think of Hawaii or South America, or Spain? I have been looking into all of those places. But what you have heard is right, it rains a ton here, but you make a good point in that it would be a good thing if drought occurs...and it probably will. Viktoras says to go to places that people would not want to go to, so mountains are good. He's up in the rockies I believe. I think north central California or Oregon would be great. I have my doubts about Hawaii and Spain and I don't know about South America enough nor do I have funds to go explore. Its so hard. Have you thought about going in with some other people? We are kind of thinking about it. We would love to do it with people with a similar vision and I would love to have a raw foodist become another member of our community. my email is ascaricangypsy@hotmail.com
yeah, I am wondering about nor cal and its being highly volcanic. what do you mean?

davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Full-on man. This is just in the last couple of
> weeks!
>
> [www.pnsn.org]
>
> -David Mason


Those are Earthquakes not volcanos.

Also, there is nothing in the eastern parts of the states.

Also, nothing bigger than a 2 or 3. I probably would barely feel 'em. Besides I'd rather go thru small scale Earthquakes than seven or eight hurricanes a year.

Hey Marika. How many people are down with your plan?

I will e-mail you.

-I support you 100%!

-David Mason

I think all of us are searching for that place or call it garden of eden,paradise maybe even nirvana whatever.

There are a lot of good things and bad things wherever you go but the main thing is to go and search the the suggestions you recieved are pretty good.
You could make a case for central Florida or Northern California the Northwest part of the USA and Canada is stunning in scenery and there is a lot of organic farms in that area like Northern California.

It also depends on what you want to grow and to me that is the most important reason I prefer places like Florida or anywhere in the tropics what you eat is what you will most likely want to grow.

In some tropical regions of the world you can have the best of both worlds where there is a higher elevation nearby you can have a variety of fruits and veggies growing and buy the food you can not grow coming from an area that does grow it nearby not 6000 miles away.

If you are worried about a economic collapse or whatever just look at recent history.The breakup of the Soviet Union while all the main cities were lacking in food the farms had plenty and all the roads coming into the cities were lined with people waiting for the food to come in.

It is best to be or very nearby where the food is grown.

Peace Love and Happiness
Cherimoya

take it easy marika........ why would you like to survive if the world was destroyed?

plz write to me about the whole idea, coz i dont quite understand it... marta:
mitsuagi@hotmail.co.uk thnx

Write it here. Share with the group. This discussion intrigues me.

Davidzanemason - how about the MOSQUITOES(!) in Florida?
i guess they don't bother U???

i found some cool places to wwoof in Florida, but the thought of
mosquitoes stops me from going there
also
in Hawaii, on the big island, on the east side, is same story...
MOSQUITOES!!!, the beasts bothered me half of each day..

LOVE,
Namaste, Basia

For growing fruit in cooler climates, Uncommon Fruits by Lee Reich is worth a look.

The mosquitoes? I tell you: this is mostly dependent on whether you live close to standing water (like a lake or canal). Even so, it is my experience that you can't go TOO many places without running into our little friend the mosquito. They don't seem to bother me much these days. Plus, Florida sprays the hell out them every season now for decades...especially with the whole disease spreading thing......

-My personal thing? I have 2 or three requirements for MY farm. It had to be well above sea level (at least 100 ft) and inland (100 miles) to avoid flooding or Tsunamis. It had to be in the tropics or semi-tropics (plenty of sun, warmth and no snow). It had to be well away from a major city...but still have access to power, cable, telephone and PAVED ROADS). It had to be in a non-earthuake volitile zone. It also had to be in the most economically feasable area.

-Florida fit all these bills for me. No state income tax.....cheap land (at the time...ha! ha!).

-As far as the hurricanes go? They are over-rated....especially if you are in a 'simplistic living mode'. EVERYONE has homeowners insurance these days. Worst case scenario is that the winds damage your home....and you get a new roof - curtousy of the insurance company.

-People DO get hurt during and after hurricanes - mostly the undocumented migrant seasonal farm workers that live in shacks or othe makeshift housing.

-My point is that the 'danger' and undesirability of living in a hurricane prone area is mostly crap. The real 'danger' of any disaster or world changing event is that you don't want to be ground zero........and the real danger is the traffic and social collapse in those areas.

-Just my opinions.

-David Mason

I also live in Florida, in the south, and it's too hot to grow anything here from May to October. We do our best growing in the winter.

Everytime I tried doing a backyard garden, I was lucky to keep 1/3 of the crop. Birds, bugs and diseases got the rest. Ah, but that remaining 1/3 was TOTALLY KICK! I grew the best arugula, parsnips, tomatoes, radishes and turnips ever!

And citrus, well, just c'mon down and pick what you want! Well, that was several years ago before we lost the starfruit, lime, lemon, grapefruit and orange trees...I planted more but they take a while to make fruit.

I also grew dwarf bananas, the apple-banana, OMG this was such a treat. Unfortunately, they didn't space themselves out correctly so they all ripened at once! Talk about banana-rama!

Mosquitoes, so what. They aren't totally horrendous, and I don't even get the bumps like I used to when I was a kid in upstate NY - where the mosquitoes will make you look like you had chicken pox!!! They are annoying in the early morning and evening, so I just don't go out then. During the day they aren't around. Now those red ants, THEY are a problem!

Look, everyplace is going to have the good, the bad and the ugly. Or it will be heaven, it's all what you make of it.

You might want to check out Dancing Rabbit alternative eco-living community in Michigan I think, go to www.dancingrabbit.org and check out what they have going over there. The site is terrific, and you'll get some great ideas.

You may even want to visit them at some point, to get an idea of what a group of willing people can do to make life the way they want it to be.

And, BTW, in Arizona there is an area which duplicates the Mediterranean climate, and you can grow olives, figs, nut trees, etc. like crazy! See? Something great about everywhere!

Have fun looking, don't be in a panic or you could make a bad decision, just be calm and research like crazy and you'll find your own piece of heaven on earth.

Basia Holy Healer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Davidzanemason - how about the MOSQUITOES(!) in
> Florida?
> i guess they don't bother U???
>
> i found some cool places to wwoof in Florida, but
> the thought of
> mosquitoes stops me from going there
> also
> in Hawaii, on the big island, on the east side, is
> same story...
> MOSQUITOES!!!, the beasts bothered me half of each
> day..
>
> LOVE,
> Namaste, Basia

Yeah, forget about sleeping outdoors (without netting surrounding you) in the spring or summer in Florida. They will tear you up!


davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Plus, Florida sprays the hell out them every
> season now for decades...especially with the whole
> disease spreading thing......

Ah, got to love pesticides!

>
> -As far as the hurricanes go? They are
> over-rated....especially if you are in a
> 'simplistic living mode'.

You mean like living under a tree cause your house blew apart?

As for over-rated they seem to be getting worse and worse every year.

> EVERYONE has homeowners
> insurance these days. Worst case scenario is that
> the winds damage your home....and you get a new
> roof - curtousy of the insurance company.
>

Haha, lets all depend on the insurance companies and the government then. Worked for New Oreleans.

> -People DO get hurt during and after hurricanes -
> mostly the undocumented migrant seasonal farm
> workers that live in shacks or othe makeshift
> housing.
>
> -My point is that the 'danger' and undesirability
> of living in a hurricane prone area is mostly
> crap. The real 'danger' of any disaster or world
> changing event is that you don't want to be ground
> zero........and the real danger is the traffic and
> social collapse in those areas.
>
> -Just my opinions.
>
> -David Mason

I agree with you on the second part (that the "real danger" is social collaspe). But what if social collaspe AND mother nature's wrath both hit you similtaniously?

Hey hey y'all. I'm gonna get land in Vermont I think- northeast kingdom. I have a lot of support here from family and friends. I am already back east getting resources together and getting my family to eat raw! Its great!

I live why out in the TN woods in what I'd call north central south east, 20 years ago we bought 80 ac for less than $20K, mountain side with 3 springs on it. but sence then land price has gone funny. I think it's about as good an area as can be had anywhere, probably about the same climate as S Misouri. I like it here, only seem to get a little hint of the heat of the south and the cold of the north.
winter gets below 10 only occasionally, (10 was the low last winter, but i have seen it hit -17 once) and summer goes over 90 very rarely. As for growing food and fruit, you can grow about anything tropical in a greenhouse, and it can produce right through the winter if it's set up right. and there's an abundance of good fruits that are good for temporate climates, of course they tend to have a crop once a year. Both religianists and secular prognosticaters have predicted coming hard times, I see the imminant signs of it myself and don't expect freedom for too much longer, but something has kept holding it off for a long time.
I have a long list of reasons that i don't think this world has much time left till major upset. but i think it'd take several books to get through them all.
I like growing food, fixin to do it full time, but when it's 90 and high humidity, it's hard to work. Plan is to set up a small swimming pool near the field and run cold spring water into it. then we'll cool off every time the heat get's uncomfortable.

Marika

Good to hear about your plans to Vermont sounds good never been there but read a lot of good things about that area.

Reuben

Sounds like Tenn is a good spot If I remember correct the authur of Survival in the 21 first century lives nearby in Arkansas.

I think anywhere away from big cities but near to some small towns is a good choose.

Love peace and Happiness
Cherimoya

I am not sure exactly what the future consists of-I believe neither in doomsday or a sudden wiping out of all that is evil- there is a lot to be positive about and look forward to...the Mayan calendar predicts a new golden age in 2012 (people think that all of a sudden something is going to happen but I believe that it just marks the beginning of change for the better), but I believe that things are going to get much worse until they get better...our answers are within us- we can prepare for disaster wherever we are, but I think having a self sufficient home base is very important. seeds are the money of the future...I think something huge is happening right now whether people realize it or not- it is not so obvious like a nuclear explosion but it is comparable to that evil...I am kind of not feeling well right now so I don't know if I am making sense. I just got back from a 4 day bus trip across Ascarica. It was a nightmare. Things are worse than I could ever have imagined. People are really disgusting...wow. I was shocked. I am still in shock. I need to clear my mind a bit...that's for sure. I mean I have been to some "third world" countries...and I believe that most of the people in this country live in a much sicker world than even the helpless people in so called third world countries. I mean there is no use comparing how much pain we all endure. We are all in this together, really. we are all one, but I think I would rather be born to a loving family and be starving than to some of the parents and into the lives of the people I met on our bus ride...it is so sad. If I was born into those situations, completely brainwashed, I think that I would probably be just like them. They are so miserable. They had no chance. No one showing them the way when they were born. I am rambling, but I am afraid for a lot of people. Not so much for myself...but for people who are brainwashed. Disease is the future. Epidemic. a not so sudden wake up call. hmm. i hope that made sense.

Ascarica?

Where is Ascarica?

That is a new one on me I know carica that is a papaya but Ascarica.

Love Peace and Happiness,

Cherimoya

A- SCARE- ica = America
Ha.