Hi - I just registered here because I'm also very interested in finding a high speed blender that doesn't use plastic.

pborst - the article you linked to is from 2010, was written by the manufacturer of Tritan, and I'd assume that the "third party test" was funded by the manufacturer too. Seems like there's plenty of shady behavior from Eastman (see the Mother Jones article).

Actually, I'm not even trying to convince you, which seems pointless. Just want to get that info visible in this thread for folks like SueZ.

BrianG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi - I just registered here because I'm also very
> interested in finding a high speed blender that
> doesn't use plastic.
>
> pborst - the article you linked to is from 2010,
> was written by the manufacturer of Tritan, and I'd
> assume that the "third party test" was funded by
> the manufacturer too. Seems like there's plenty of
> shady behavior from Eastman (see the Mother Jones
> article).
>
> Actually, I'm not even trying to convince you,
> which seems pointless. Just want to get that info
> visible in this thread for folks like SueZ.

BrianG, I have several high speed blenders. The only one I have that has ss carafes is from India. I love it but I burn them out a lot as they are built very poorly otherwise and are not UL approved. The carafe's also do scratch up sometimes inside so with all of the blender options there are as yet unworked out problems.

If you are interested in my preferred Indian mixer with ss carafes, which even flashes a spark when it's turned on and when the speed is changed, which can be easily seen through the thin plastic body, let me know.

Thanks, Sue. The SS sounds awesome, but the burning out, sparking, and non-UL approval is a bit scary. But perhaps others here might be interested.

BrianG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, Sue. The SS sounds awesome, but the
> burning out, sparking, and non-UL approval is a
> bit scary. But perhaps others here might be
> interested.

You're welcome. Yeah all of that, and that the ss scratches and there are no safety features that keep you from having it remove a hand for you if you aren't careful, is a bit scary but it's sooo easy to clean and the blades are so nice and low. It's kind of built like those south facing McMansions that have solid mahogany front doors held up cardboard walls - doomed to end fubar pretty quickly.


Anyway, if you ever find someone who's engineered and brought to market that easy to clean dream machine high speed blender with ss carafes that's up to American safety and electrical standards then please come back here and spread the word!

Right now, I think I'm inclined to just buy an old VitaMix from eBay with a SS carafe!

BrianG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right now, I think I'm inclined to just buy an old
> VitaMix from eBay with a SS carafe!

If you do please let us know how that goes!

BrianG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi - I just registered here because I'm also very
> interested in finding a high speed blender that
> doesn't use plastic.
>
> pborst - the article you linked to is from 2010,
> was written by the manufacturer of Tritan, and I'd
> assume that the "third party test" was funded by
> the manufacturer too. Seems like there's plenty of
> shady behavior from Eastman (see the Mother Jones
> article).
>
> Actually, I'm not even trying to convince you,
> which seems pointless. Just want to get that info
> visible in this thread for folks like SueZ.


THANK YOU, BrianG for pointing that out. I'm a newbie here too. My research lead me here. I'm researching an alternative to the plastic Vitamix container. Reading through the old posts, I can't believe how "pborst" attacked "JohnA" for mentioning that there maybe other toxic Bisphenols present.

Research it for yourself people, there are BP-A, BP-S, BP-Z, etc. So, Vitamix maybe BP-A free, yes, but, who knows what other toxic chemical would be leaching out.

It sounds like "pborst" maybe 'employed' by Triton or Vitamix, the way he defended plastic jug, time & time again, the way he attacked JohnA just seems very suspicious. Oh well, if plastic doesn't concern you, then move on. But, obviously there is a proportion of people on this planet that do not agree with plastic containers.

It's funny how the original post is from 2009. It's now Dec 2014 and we still have not found a "safe" non-plastic, non-toxic, high-powered blender. Arrgh, frustrating!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2014 08:21AM by SharonD.

bethfly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi everyone. I came here following a Google
> search for "Vitamix" and "plastic". My name is
> Beth Terry, and I write the blog "My Plastic-Free
> Life". I have been researching the issue of
> chemicals in plastics for six years, and if you
> talk to an endocrinologist (not a toxicologist),
> they can explain why it is that the chemicals in
> plastics (phthalates, BPA, and others) are very
> harmful to humans at low doses. The Vitamix is
> now made with Eastman Tritan Copolyester, which
> has shown hormone-disrupting effects in some
> studies.
>
>
> I have put up a petition on Change.org asking
> Vitamix to offer a stainless steel alternative...
> basically to bring back the original stainless
> steel pitcher that they used to offer. Yes, you
> can still get them on eBay, but as someone else in
> this forum said, wouldn't it be great if the new
> machines had stainless steel as an option?
>
> Here is the link to the petition:
[www.change.org]


THANK YOU, Beth. I had no idea such petition existed. You posted this in Nov 2013, and it's now Dec 2014. I've just visited the petition, it seem that there are only 2000 odd people that have signed it?

Perhaps people didn't know about this. Maybe you can spread the message via Facebook. Think if we all try and support that petition and get as many people onboard, maybe Vitamix will listen!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2014 08:30AM by SharonD.

BrianG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right now, I think I'm inclined to just buy an old
> VitaMix from eBay with a SS carafe!

If I were a mechanic I would do the same - if those old parts are even still available that is. Please let up know how it goes if you buy a one!

"Research it for yourself people, there are BP-A, BP-S, BP-Z, etc. So, Vitamix maybe BP-A free, yes, but, who knows what other toxic chemical would be leaching out.

It sounds like "pborst" maybe 'employed' by Triton or Vitamix, the way he defended plastic jug, time & time again, the way he attacked JohnA just seems very suspicious. Oh well, if plastic doesn't concern you, then move on. But, obviously there is a proportion of people on this planet that do not agree with plastic containers."


Please remember this is a raw vegan site. We eat very clean and low on the food chain. We do not use our plastic blender carafes for hot (or heated up )foods so our exposure to chemical leeching is vastly less, if not nonexistent, compared to most people who find themselves here from original sites catering to homesteaders, etc., who use their blenders at heating temperatures.

Now if we were to do things like can the crap out of dead animal carcasses, (which we find abhorrent), or even real food, using reusable plastic canning lids, etc., at very high temperatures and pressures then yeah we would be worried about plastic leaching into our foods as much as homesteading dead animal eating activists are. As it stands, we think we have found a better way, which also uses almost no plastic at all, to avoid the almost entirely high heat induced leaching. See?

You can't assume just because Eastman quoted a 3rd party lab that they funded it. The other thing is that there methodological problems with the way the Certichem conducts its analysis of estrogenic effect.

Chemjobber Is Tritan estrogenic?

The MCF-7 assay is questionable at best. Both Certichem and Plastipure are founded by the same guy, makes question the legitimacy of the dual claims.

In 2012, analysis showed the Copolymer was not estrogenic or androgenic for that matter. Tritan Copolymer not estrogenic

In the end, the jury found for Eastman. I'm not saying Eastman Tritan Co-polymer doesn't have estrogenic effect. I'm saying based on what I've read the science isn't there the way it is for BPA. It's not proven. Maybe stainless steel carafes from India leach chromium or manganese in toxic amounts into your smoothie? I don't know but that's not proven either.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2014 04:14AM by pborst.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Maybe stainless steel
> carafes from India leach chromium or manganese in
> toxic amounts into your smoothie? I don't know
> but that's not proven either.



Hey, I use my VitaMix to make smoothies and raw vegan soups, etc.. I use my ss carafe mixer from India, which I also love to make things every other type blender, and food processors, suck at.

I have six different types of working blenders that I use in my kitchen. All have their special reasons for being there and I use them all. So there.

I'm not being critical of a stainless steel carafe Sue. I'm pointing out that any material could pose risks. But we select what we prefer based on what we know. I view the idea that the copolymer is estrogenic is unsubstantiated. I was merely making an analogy that you could make similar unsubstantiated statements to other materials. That's all.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not being critical of a stainless steel carafe
> Sue. I'm pointing out that any material could
> pose risks. But we select what we prefer based on
> what we know. I view the idea that the copolymer
> is estrogenic is unsubstantiated. I was merely
> making an analogy that you could make similar
> unsubstantiated statements to other materials.
> That's all.

Yeah, I know. The thing is, though, the people who most want the ss carafes are the ones that want to use them for heating foods and will probably be the first to sue when they, or their kids, get burned if they get their way. Steel gets very hot, we live in a very litigious country, and VitaMix is doing the best job of anyone when it comes to making and selling high speed blenders.

Until and unless someone comes along that revolutionizes the blender business - as Japan did to Detroit with cars - I don't see benders changing in way beyond mechanicals/computer upgrades anytime soon. It would be a very expensive retooling.

I am also not wanting to get a blender made of plastic, weather it is bpa free or not, it is still platic which decomposes very quickly. The people i am currently living with use bpa free plastic cups for everyday use and i started using them. I would take a cup of water to my room to drink overnight and in the morning, the water had a horrible chemical flavor and was just gross, so i would throw it out. i would do this every night. Then One night i used a glass cup, only because i thought it was pretty and the next morning, the water tasted perfectly fresh like it was right when i put it in. It was the gross plstic the whole time, slowly degrading into my water in only a few hours of time. I only use glass now and will never use any type of plastic again and my water always taste amazing. if this isn't a cause for concern, then i don't know where everyone's head is at. I am currently using the glass jar blender, company name oster, that the family i am staying with bought at costco. it is a great blender, but only has 450 watts of power and although i am in love with the blender because it is actually very powerful and even strong enough to make my vegan banana ice cream from frozen bananas, i don't want to break the blender by pushing it continuously to the max. Everywhere i have looked so far, all of the powerful blenders are made of plastic. i am seeing quiet a few posts with some glass blenders that are pretty high powered, i will be checking them out on youtube, as i will often watch different videos from people who own those blenders and are testing them out. I usually test for nut butters, ice creams, and green smoothies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2015 12:20PM by raindroptree.

I have an Oster beehive blender - stainless steel base and glass carafe - extremely durable. Not "high-speed" like a Vitamix or Blendtec and only 2 speeds but it works great for me.

Tribest recently released the Dynablend, which is a high-speed blender with a glass carafe and looks quite promising. However many complain that the gearing that connects the carafe to the base ends up breaking because it is plastic and there is nothing that secures the carafe to the base as there is on traditional blenders like my Oster (it is more like a Vitamix in this respect). If you are careful about holding the carafe in place while blending, it may work out okay, and does fit the bill of a high-speed blender with a glass carafe. They do include a nice warranty and will replace the broken part as many times as required within the warranty period. I am personally waiting to see if they fix the issue in a future iteration.

[www.discountjuicers.com]

However since I use my blender to blend smoothies, not to juice or grind or make hot soup, I find the Oster Beehive model to be more than acceptable for now!

[www.oster.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 10:12PM by raptelan.

I have an older Vita-Mix 1363 CIA that I paid $498 for in July 2011. It would constantly burn out after about a year, and the motor began to loose significant power to the point of being unacceptable after three.

It's been sitting in a cabinet for a year since I bought the Oster Beehive which I mostly use it with standard glass mason jars (small mouth). It's inexpensive and blends smoothies better and faster than my Vita-mix ever did! Plus clean up is easy since I can blend directly into the jar that I'm drinking out of.

Hope this helps someone looking for an efficient and inexpensive glass blender solution.

I have an older Vita-Mix 1363 CIA that I paid $498 for in July 2011.
It would constantly burn out after about a year, and the motor began to loose significant power to the point of being unacceptable after three.

It's been sitting in a cabinet for almost a year now since I bought the Oster Beehive 400 which I mostly use with standard glass mason jars (small mouth).

It's less than 1/5 the cost, and blends smoothies, dressings, and soups just as nice as Vita-mix did when it was new. Plus clean up is easy since I can blend directly into the jar that I'm drinking out of.

For me it's turned out to be great glass blender solution.

c64kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have an older Vita-Mix 1363 CIA that I paid $498
> for in July 2011.
> It would constantly burn out after about a year,
> and the motor began to loose significant power to
> the point of being unacceptable after three.
>
> It's been sitting in a cabinet for almost a year
> now since I bought the Oster Beehive 400 which I
> mostly use with standard glass mason jars (small
> mouth).
>
> It's less than 1/5 the cost, and blends smoothies,
> dressings, and soups just as nice as Vita-mix did
> when it was new. Plus clean up is easy since I
> can blend directly into the jar that I'm drinking
> out of.
>
> For me it's turned out to be great glass blender
> solution.


Why not return your Vitamix again for servicing while it's still under warranty so you can sell it? There are many people who buy them used.

I used to use the Oster/canning jar method, too. These days, though, the jar's glass is much thinner and I don't trust them with the heavy duty loads I subject my Vitamix to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2015 08:36PM by SueZ.

There is passionate and there is downright nasty. Mr Paul Borst falls under the second category.

In Mr Borst's defense, however, he doesn't seem to be employed by Eastman or Vitamix. He seems to be a longtime EPA Environmental Protection 'Specialist".

He is most likely a very enthusiastic "Groupie Level" fan of a certain expensive high speed blender and cannot stand any criticism levelled against it.

Oh, by the way, there are some new complaints about black specs with new vitamixes. You can go to amazon or just google "vitamix black specs". They may be teflon specs and of course, Mr EPA will declare that teflon is quite safe, many of us would not want little black specs in our smoothies, thank you very much.

By the way, Paul, here is your CAS number (and I believe another poster had already supplied it before)

http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_77-40-7.htm

You had, at first refused to believe that there is such a thing as BPB, but when you were supplied with proof, you did not follow through with an aplogy that you had promised.


Let us be nice to each other here, folks. No legitimate question should be labelled as "trolling" just because you don't agree with it..
pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please provide the full name of the BPB and risks
> with full references. Thanks. btw, according to
> your profile you just joined this forum one hour
> ago (at the time of this writing) and dragged up
> and old potentially controversial thread with an
> arcane unsupported post that affects many members
> here. I just googled BPB..nothing came back. got
> ya. You are a troll and you are bsing. I will
> gladly apologize when you answer my request
> substantively with references. But until then,
> post reported.
>
> Just curious, why didn't you introduce yourself
> first? One other point BPb with a small b is
> lead. There is no lead in any Vitamix product.
> But you made a capital "B"... I doubt if you were
> sincere the acronym would be the same.
> Toxicologists and risk assessors are kind of funny
> like that... they don't like confusing metal
> toxicants with organics.
>
> Paul

Just in case people are not aware, there are high speed blenders with stainless jar which are better quality than the vitamix albeit less warranty. Not glass.

[www.webstaurantstore.com]

I've been using mine everyday for like +5 years and never had any problem. I bought it with the plastic jar but then switched to stainless once I knew about toxic plastics. I blend for like 2 minutes and it does not get hot at all. Warning, it is a tall blender. A glass blender would not hold up to high power.

It would not be very logical to think that ice, nuts, frozen items, etc etc being hurtled around at 30,000 RPM inside a high speed blender will not catch miniscule amounts of the plastic jar (or even steel jar for that matter) while spinning around. People who use these blenders use them at least once every day, and these miniscule amounts can add up.

Whether or not these small amnounts of plastic will cause harm, is a topic for discussion, but members of this forum have the right to be concerned

I am not convinced that we need such high speed blenders to make smoothies. Yes, they make very "smooth" smoothies, but at what cost?

I have been using a $20 blender with a glass jar for over 10 years. I have been tempted too many times to buy a Vitamix or a Blendtec, and yes I can afford to buy them, yet I have been on the fence because I am still not convinced that they are 100% safe.

The FDA and EPA have a history of accepting safety studies on materials sponsored by the very people who stand to gain by selling products made out of these materials. It is like the proverbial fox guarding the chicken coop.

Remember, the tobacco industry, for years, told all of us that tobacco does not have any ill effects. Chemical companies had been maintaining that BPA was safe, and suddenly it seems that it is not safe under certain conditions. It is a well known fact that many government employees later on become lobbyists for these very companies, and for that reason, they do not want to bite the "future hand that feeds". As they get closer to retirement, they drool over the prospect of being courted by the very companies they were supposed to have been "monitoring" for years. If an EPA employee close to retirement age suddenly became a rabid supporter of some chemical substance and started to berate anyone who uttered a word of caution against these chemicals, I would be a little suspicious of his/her motives.

Most (if not all) of these expensive high speed blenders are manufactured by companies that use heavy marketing, (and nowadays) extensive use of social media and a wide network of affiliates who stand to gain from the sale of these machines. In my opinion, there is an unreasonably wide difference between the perceived value of these blenders and their actual value.

Yes, it takes a little more effort with a twenty dollar, 400 watt blender (I spend 5 to 10 more minutes cutting the ingredients before blending them, and yes, a little more liquid is required, and yes, the result is not a completely "smooth" concoction. To be honest, I don't know if I want a completely smooth concoction that I can just gulp down. I think a little bit of chewing is essential to start the action of the salivary enzymes which help in digestion. I am not sure if gulping down large amounts of green smoothies without a little bit of chewing is a good thing...

As far as nut butters, flours and such, there are other machines that do these jobs better.

A $500 blender, in my opinon, is ridiculously overpriced and I am not going to get sucked into this vortex....(pun intended)

vegan_chow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, it takes a little more effort with a twenty
> dollar, 400 watt blender

Well kudos for keeping that thing babied enough to keep purring away for 10 years instead of relegating it to a cupboard, or deeper storage, where most of the unbroken ones of it's kind and genre exist.

Hey Sue
I also know people who have bought 20 year old regular cheap blenders with glass carafes at garage sales for $1 and those are working fine (but I am sure those older ones were built to last a long time compared to a lot of the cheapo stuff out there these days)

Yes, I do baby my old cheapo blender. I cut up the greens with stainless steel kitchen shears and chop carrots etc into 1 inch pieces before throwing them in.
I do use a little more liquid than one would use with a high speed unit. Lately I have been experimenting with adding home made beet kvass as the liquid base to green smoothies. It helps blend the veggies together and also gives me a nice probiotic shot...

One trick I learned was to pulse rock salt pieces (more like 1/4 inch chunks) inside the dry jar every few months and that sharpens the blades like a charm.

I have also found that using cold water and cold ingredients helps to keep these inexpensive blenders from burning their motors. I think (and this is just my opinion) that their low duty motors do not burn out as quickly as one might think because they do not spin at very high RPMs like the expensive ones do

People tend to treat inexpensive items with less care and that is one of the reasons they tend to break down easy. To give you an example, I used to buy cheap sunglasses at walmart and I really did not take good care of them - I just threw them around the house, in the car..did not put them in a case etc etc and had to replace them very often because they would get broken or scratched. I then bought a real expensive pair of Oakleys which I really babied until I left them in a rental car and lost them.... I was not going to buy another pair of expensive sunglasses, so, the next pair of cheapo sunglasses I bought - I have been taking real good care of them like my Oakleys - keeping them in a case while not in use, keeping them clean, etc etc and they have lasted much longer

Lesson is, treat your cheap blender like you would treat your vitamix and you will get years and years of use out of it..

There are many people out there who would like to get on a healthy diet but are on a tight budget. $500 would buy them a halfway decent inexpensive blender with a glass jar and still have enough money left over for almost 2 months worth of good quality organic ingredients to blend.

One does not need a $500 blender to get healthy just like one does not need a Ferrari to get from point A to point B - and even if one could afford the Ferrari, it may not necessarily be a good thing...


SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vegan_chow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, it takes a little more effort with a
> twenty
> > dollar, 400 watt blender
>
> Well kudos for keeping that thing babied enough to
> keep purring away for 10 years instead of
> relegating it to a cupboard, or deeper storage,
> where most of the unbroken ones of it's kind and
> genre exist.

Vegan_Chow, That's a great tip for sharpening the blades on a cheap blender by pulsing salt in it - if it works. Now I'm going to have to dig my cheap blender with the glass carafe out of deep storage and try your methods. Thanks!

Hey Sue
plain salt will not work. It would have to be rock salt that comes in larger crystals (like 1/4 inch crystals)

I was searching youtube for tips to sharpen blender blades, and found this video. The guy speaks in a different language, but English instructions are posted on the video and the visual instructions are pretty clear for everyone to understand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlx0gd9IGKc

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vegan_Chow, That's a great tip for sharpening the
> blades on a cheap blender by pulsing salt in it -
> if it works. Now I'm going to have to dig my cheap
> blender with the glass carafe out of deep storage
> and try your methods. Thanks!

rawtional Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is passionate and there is downright nasty.
> Mr Paul Borst falls under the second category.
>
> In Mr Borst's defense, however, he doesn't seem to
> be employed by Eastman or Vitamix. He seems to be
> a longtime EPA Environmental Protection
> 'Specialist".
>
> He is most likely a very enthusiastic "Groupie
> Level" fan of a certain expensive high speed
> blender and cannot stand any criticism levelled
> against it.
>
> Oh, by the way, there are some new complaints
> about black specs with new vitamixes. You can go
> to amazon or just google "vitamix black specs".
> They may be teflon specs and of course, Mr EPA
> will declare that teflon is quite safe, many of us
> would not want little black specs in our
> smoothies, thank you very much.
>
> By the way, Paul, here is your CAS number (and I
> believe another poster had already supplied it
> before)
>
> [www.chemicalbook.com]
>
> You had, at first refused to believe that there is
> such a thing as BPB, but when you were supplied
> with proof, you did not follow through with an
> aplogy that you had promised.
>
>
> Let us be nice to each other here, folks. No
> legitimate question should be labelled as
> "trolling" just because you don't agree with it..
> pborst Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please provide the full name of the BPB and
> risks
> > with full references. Thanks. btw, according
> to
> > your profile you just joined this forum one
> hour
> > ago (at the time of this writing) and dragged
> up
> > and old potentially controversial thread with
> an
> > arcane unsupported post that affects many
> members
> > here. I just googled BPB..nothing came back.
> got
> > ya. You are a troll and you are bsing. I will
> > gladly apologize when you answer my request
> > substantively with references. But until
> then,
> > post reported.
> >
> > Just curious, why didn't you introduce yourself
> > first? One other point BPb with a small b is
> > lead. There is no lead in any Vitamix product.
>
> > But you made a capital "B"... I doubt if you
> were
> > sincere the acronym would be the same.
> > Toxicologists and risk assessors are kind of
> funny
> > like that... they don't like confusing metal
> > toxicants with organics.
> >
> > Paul

Thanks. There is a BPB, no reference for it's use in Eastman Tritan Copolymer or it's risk. We don't even know if it's a monomer. I assume you are "John A". I'm flattered that you took time to google me. Let's let sleeping dogs lie and move on shall we. Glass and stainless steel are preferable materials. My point was only that the risk of Eastman Tritan Copolymer used in Vitamix carafes was not per se risky, not that it couldn't be proved risky. If it did, I would be the first to upgrade to a Waring stainless steel carafe that fits the Vitamix base. For now that's not necessary.

pborst is very defensive at the beginning if this thread, aggressive with shouting "troll". Sounds to me also like he's getting paid to advertise something, maybe vitamix... everybody can write whatever the heck they want and state their opinion, I googled and found this article: [civileats.com]’re-not-in-the-clear/ now not sure if it's correct or whatever, but let people use their own brains to figure things out, no reason to protect anyone from information... Oh and if I should introduce myself to the forum lol, I'm someone looking for a good blender, preferably made of glass.