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stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: juicin' john ()
Date: December 03, 2010 02:48PM

I think that a very important feature to consider when making the purchase of a juicing machine is to check out if the gear that does the grinding is made of staniless steel or plastic.

despite the many claims made by several juicer manufacturing companies that the plastic they are using is safe and durable, i would like to shine a new light into this dark area.

plastic is cheap in comparison to stainless steel...... not to mention the milling process (which is much more expensive) which stainless steel must go through to make a high quality juicer gear. the short cut of using plastic instead of the higher quality stainless steel is a short cut which allows them to make extra profits by their substitution of plastic for stainless steel.

the stainless steel will not only last longer but it is also a much safer and healthier material to choose in regards to the long term consumption of juices on a daily basis over a period of many years.

there are many reports about the adverse effects which plastic can have on the body. why would anyone take up a healthy program of juicing and then take a chance on using a plastic gear which could wear away small amounts of the plastic into their healthy juices.

juicing is not a passive operation.... it uses crushing and friction between the grinding mechanism and the vegetation which is being crushed and ground up to release the juices.

my point is that anyone considering a juicer purchase should give some thought as to whether or not they would like to take a chance of possibly ingesting small, almost microscopic quantities of plastic into their body with each glass of fresh juice made with a machine having a plastic augur.

here is a cool video from plastic planet:

[www.moviemaze.de]

juicin' john



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2010 04:00PM by john.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 07, 2010 10:34PM

If you are a sincere advicer on juicing for health,not just for quenching thirst, I think this is one of the first thing you must recommend to check before anyone buys a juicer. I am wondering why no supportive posting on this important issue by juicing experts who love to demonstrate their expertism on this board..... just a curiosty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 10:35PM by Helloob.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 08, 2010 03:35PM

I can't speak for everyone. But "Helloob", you joined in August, have 5 posts and everyone of them is tied to JJ and his Greenstar Elite. You don't have a single post on another subject not related to Juicin John and his juicer. I will let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.

Regarding the merits of JJs original post, it's just his opinion. Nothing more. No leach data for polymers in the juice. The gear in the Greenstar Elite isn't all metal is it? It's part plastic, am I wrong? I don't think so. So after the veggies in the "Greenstar Elite" get crushed by metal gears, they get to go through what????? "plastic". Sorry, JJ, it's a horse that won't run. Hope you are happy with your GSE purchase. Just stop putting everyone else's down.

Kref

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 08, 2010 04:50PM

Kref,

Good point you found! But I don't understand why you bring up the gear of GSE here. Are you a competitor to GSE? That is not the subject of this thread, is it? Neither JJ nor me supported or turned down any juicers with plastic grounding mechanism. He brought up something important to think about and I was just curious about what would be the other experts' opinion but no one posted for a few days. That was it. I actually visit this board pretty often but I normally just watch and don't leave any comments. I have learned by my observation that JJ was the one of the many sincere advicers on this board.

May I ask you a question, Kref, if you want to buy a juicer for fighting against a serious disease, or if you are a new product developer, what would you take as the grinding mechanism for your juicer? Stainless Steel or Plastic? Or, you don't care?

About GSE Jumbo Twin Gear, I have bunch of information but I don't want to post them here as it is off the subject of this thread.

Peace!

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 08, 2010 05:24PM

yeah right..... busted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2010 05:32PM by Krefcenz.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Jgunn ()
Date: December 18, 2010 08:58PM

the metal part of the gears is what does the crushing .. the plastic part of the gears is what moves the pulp along to be ejected

i think this is a valid point/concern .. at least to me anyways

im sorry this post degenerated once again into personal attacks

i *personal* dont like the idea of broken down plastic in my juice

i <3 my greenstar

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 20, 2010 11:28AM

Jodi,

Thanks. Glad you like your Greenstar. No doubt it is an excellent juicer. But the plastics vs. metal in JJs post above is a little oversimplified. Don't ya think? First, the comments about stainless steel being healthier and safer are just his opinion. No data to support them. Second, "plastics" is an oversimplification given that the materials have changed (melamine to ultem). And if stainless steel will last longer than ultem, then why does the greenstar have a 5 year warranty and an Omega 8006 have 15 year warranty over 3 times longer? Even the old Omega single augers with melamine such as the 8003 and 8005 have 10 year warranties over twice as long as the Greenstar elite.

Durability is one thing, safety, another. I agree that melamine has risks. [en.wikipedia.org]. [www.sciencelab.com]

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 20, 2010 11:29AM

Can be toxic and is partially soluble in cold water. Ultem is a different story. The MSDS (material safety data sheet, required by OSHA) doesn't indicate either toxicity or solubility.[de.quadrantplastics.com] So, in addition to being safer than melamine, it's more durable which is why the Omega 8006 warranty is longer than that of the 8005 simply because it is a better resin.

A better question would be, what is the resin used in the Greenstar elite gears? One might be better off with an Omega 8006 if the sole question is price, warranty and safety if the Greenstar resin is melamine. Just a thought.

Kref

p.s. even stainless steel oxidizes and wears. It also contains chromium which can leach, albeit benign in metal or trivalent form. Unlikely to oxidize to hexavalent which is carcinogenic. That said, metal may or may not be as durable or safe. That's speculation.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2010 11:37AM by Krefcenz.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: December 20, 2010 03:31PM

I could be wrong, but I believe that anything high in acid (citrus, tomatoes) causes chromium to oxidize into hexavalent form, which is why anything meant to be eaten out of that had a green glaze with chromium in the recipe on it had to come with a disclaimer and MSDS safety data sheet, and instructions to never eat anything acidic out of it, I never researched whether or not it was truly toxic or if it was just the instructors opinion however, So I do not know for sure at this time, But I believe I remember reading something about acids and chromium being a dangerous combination in my chemistry class...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Jgunn ()
Date: December 21, 2010 02:23AM

Kref (and this is just my personal opinion) personally i think people take too much stock in *warranty* , to me it is the next greatest scam since *insurance*

my family came from a time where you took care of your equipment (whatever it may be) and it took care of you

i have read so many warranty horror stories and pretty much any and all equipment i have researched and if there is a way for the manufacturer to invalidate your warranty they can and will

my old greenstar was used 10 years before it was donated to me an burned out after some seriously hard end life use 7 years that i had it .. that to me says alot more then warranty

Curator: funny you mention chromium my good ol' hippy friend and i were just discussing the merits of beer being the only natural source of bio-available chromium lol smiling smiley

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: December 21, 2010 03:51AM

normal Bio-available chromium in beer is far different than hexavalent... just like teflon on your pans, and teflon oxide are far different as well, especially in thermogenic reactions... I;ll explain more if ya want when Ive had more sleep, but im not saying thats any reason not to use a greenstar, im sure they are awesome,the one ive seen was pretty great! but as far as longevity goes, I have never heard of anyone getting anything but awesome service with an omega warranty, and Ive heard many many many stories of people who have one of the first juicers produced by omega, and it still works to this day... so I think their warranty is longer, because they know their juicers are capable of lasting potentially twice as long as their warranty... so its a safe bet for them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Jgunn ()
Date: December 21, 2010 04:19AM

i waited almost 15 weeks for a cheque for the omega 8004 i returned this last summer .. i seriously didnt think that was very good service and didnt in anyway endear me to future purchases from them smiling smiley

i used to work for hamiltan beach warranty/repair call center , and we got paid minor token bonuses for convincing people that their warranty issues were their fault and id even say so far as many at 7 out of 10 people would accept that and never call back ..couple that with making it super hard to return something via a strict return policy .. and warranty is a scam

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 21, 2010 10:33AM

Jodi,

I understand your feelings about warranty based upon your experience. I value long warranties as long as they are original and not extended warranties. I have submitted two warranty claims with Omega, one for an upgrade for a tighter fitting lid for my Omega Big Mouth and one for a cracked screen for my Omega VERT. Both claims were serviced within 5 business days. I have no personal problem with Omega, though I understand you did with your Omega 8004 return.

To me apart from the trolling (using alternate IDs to create interest in a thread that noone is responding to), is that the statements in JJs original post are not based on either reports or his personal experience (he did not claim he personally had bits of plastic in his juice or cite any other authority). That makes the post both supposition and in my view needless fear mongering. I own both a twin gear metal juicer and a vertical single auger and use them both. They are both great juicers. But I'm not going to worry because one has gears that are plastic and metal and the other is a an ultem auger. For all I know, the ultem is safer because the resin on the twin gear may be melamine or something softer.

The claims about durability are also supposition and unsupported supposition at that. Warranties while not predictive of durability are in my view helpful. So, I agree to disagree. I'm going to enjoy both of my juicers and not worry about hypothetical risks which are unsupported by either data or experience. Too many other risks to give concern to.

Kref

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Santa Claus ()
Date: December 21, 2010 11:38AM

Kref,

You are now on the naughty list!!! Too many big words, and one that I hate "hypothetical"... almost as bad as imaginary. People keep using those words about me. So all you get for Christmas is Harley Johnstone singing Silent Night in Serbian you potser!!!

Ho ho ho. Santa.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2010 11:39AM by Santa Claus.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 21, 2010 05:16PM

:::confused smileyanta:::::

You are just crabby from smelling reindeer dung because of the economy
Admit it!!

Kref

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: December 22, 2010 04:44AM

O.o

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 27, 2010 09:34PM

you guys suck. i actually wanted some advice on buying a new juicer 'cause mature coconut meat makes my omega screech in agony and that's what i want to put through it. dang it all you guys! if i can't ask here, where exactly and i supposed ta go?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: December 28, 2010 06:06AM

John kohler, email him, he cuold have tried to sell me a more expensive juicer, but I told him what my needs where, he asked some more questions, and helped me pick out the right one for my needs... I was pleasantly surprised when he didnt even suggest the most expensive ones he sells... he's a good guy, and has used almost every juicer out theresmiling smiley

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 28, 2010 09:31AM

Alrighty, I'll do that then. Thanks you smiling smiley

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: December 28, 2010 09:34AM

No prob, your welcomesmiling smiley John is awesomegrinning smiley

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: juicerkatz ()
Date: December 28, 2010 12:55PM

I don't believe I've ever juiced mature coconut meat. I ran it through my Omega VERT (old design screen) & it cracked the screen/pulp basket. 'Course, carrots will crack the old style pulp basket.


It didn't juice, but came out more like pudding.

I made almond milk with the new "tough" specially designed pulp basket & it cracked too... sad smiley

As far as coconuts go, I always make milk with my hi-speed blender using the water/meat of the young ones.

It doesn't seem that we can have a juicing discussing on this forum, 'cause one or two guys on here think that their's is only one model to purchase,

and anyone who doesn't believe in that particular model is an idiot & bears the brunt of endless bashing... Q_q

I give up on offering juicer advice, for the most part...I may pm a person privately about it...


Go with Curator's advice, contact John Kohler... smiling smiley

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: December 28, 2010 01:12PM

yeah, and thats why I dont discuss juicer specifics anymore, and just suggest looking at the yahooo vids and talk to John Kohler...he is a great guy, and seems completely unbiased.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 28, 2010 09:06PM

Ok guys, good to know.

I'd never even checked in here before and it's ruined already. Boo.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: December 29, 2010 04:00PM

Why is a subforum ruined by one thread? What ruined it?

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: proteus ()
Date: February 09, 2011 07:28PM

i think the total cost of ownership for GSE and VERT are approximately equal considering that GSE has better yield in terms of volume, and especially in terms of nutrients.

given that it becomes a question - are you willing to put in the extra effort in operating and cleaning the GSE versus VERT to get juice with less plastic in it?

as John Kohler said you only get the health benefit of a juicer if you actually use it.

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Cetana ()
Date: May 23, 2012 02:20PM

My Angel Juicer 5500 gears have small dents -not at the Helical part, the first stage, but at the second stage- the "Slow Corn screw" part- the dents are pretty small -- can this be a health hazard though-metal leeching etc? They are expensive to replace- $240

Thank you,
Cetana

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: juicin' john ()
Date: May 23, 2012 03:56PM

Cetana....

think about it....you have two heavy jumbo sized stainless steel gears touching each other and turning turning at 80 rpm over and over again.

it is inevitable that a small amount of stainless steel powder is scraping off by mechanical action into the juice with each rpm. stainless steel powder is in the category of heavy metal poisons..... would anyone feel good about finding out that they were unknowingly ingesting minute quantities of metal with their juice? i think they would not like it at all.

your situation illustrates the weakness of the Super Angel gears especially since the damage was done on the section of the gear away from the feeding tube and in the section of the gear where the pulp is squeezing out the juice.

my point is that it is not unreasonable to postulate the possibility of small amounts of stainless steel powder scraping off from the mecanical action of two stainless steel gears touching as they rotate over and over again.

i have heard more than one story about the Angel company being unfair with people when it comes to money owed and not providing very good service to owners of their procucts who are in need.

perhaps your credit card company can help you get your money back by filing a dispute with the company you purchased your machine from. Visa is the best company for helping out with getting your money back.

i wish you success in solving your problems.

juicin' john

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: May 23, 2012 06:16PM

juicin' john Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cetana....
>
> think about it....you have two heavy jumbo sized
> stainless steel gears touching each other and
> turning turning at 80 rpm over and over again.

That's not true. The gears do not touch but have a 0.1 mm (4/1000 inch) clearance. [www.usjuicers.com]

>
> it is inevitable that a small amount of stainless
> steel powder is scraping off by mechanical action
> into the juice with each rpm. stainless steel
> powder is in the category of heavy metal
> poisons..... would anyone feel good about finding
> out that they were unknowingly ingesting minute
> quantities of metal with their juice? i think they
> would not like it at all.

not true. stainless steel is relatively inert. You might have greater issues with a plastic auger than a steel one.

>
> your situation illustrates the weakness of the
> Super Angel gears especially since the damage was
> done on the section of the gear away from the
> feeding tube and in the section of the gear where
> the pulp is squeezing out the juice.

we don't know how the nics happened but if it a manufacturing defect, its under warranty.

> my point is that it is not unreasonable to
> postulate the possibility of small amounts of
> stainless steel powder scraping off from the
> mecanical action of two stainless steel gears
> touching as they rotate over and over again.

it is unreasonable if it is not factual. And it is not factual.

> i have heard more than one story about the Angel
> company being unfair with people when it comes to
> money owed and not providing very good service to
> owners of their procucts who are in need.

let's not prejudge the outcome. It's possible the company will reimburse him or if it was operator error, they may credit him on a new set of gears.

> perhaps your credit card company can help you get
> your money back by filing a dispute with the
> company you purchased your machine from. Visa is
> the best company for helping out with getting your
> money back.
>
> i wish you success in solving your problems.
>
> juicin' john

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: Cetana ()
Date: May 23, 2012 06:22PM

Thank you John. USjuicers has asked me to send them photos. I'm still waiting for a reply. Hopefully I can get them replaced. Harvest Essentials recommended I contact the manufacturer- Crown Equipment. I watched your youtube video..very informative--- especially RE: the warranty when a Co. goes out of business

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Re: stainless steel vs. plastic......
Posted by: juicin' john ()
Date: May 23, 2012 10:24PM

Pborst

let it be known that the statement you made regarding the .004 clearance of the Super Angel dual gears is false.

obviously US Juicers has taken the liberty to copy the Tribest Twin Gear marketing information and in their own ignorant way applied it to the Super Angel.

the alls stainless steel dual gears of the Angel absolutely MUST touch in order for the drive gear to turn the free wheeeling gear. (laws of physics) otherwise you would have to attribute the turning to magic or something beyond belief.

therefore the toxic stainless steel particles which contain nickel..... a known carcinogen and DNA repair inhibitor ..... are scraped off in minute quantities and introduced into the juice each and every time a person makes juice in the machine.

if the second stage gear nicks and pits so easily....consistent friction from the drive gear turning and possibly also from the gear teeth themselves "intermeshing" as this drawing from the Angel website seems to illustrate.(see link below) indicates no doubt that stainless steel powder containing the carcinogen nickel are in the juice produced by the Super Angel.


[angeljuicercompany.com]

i hope give a warning to any who may be concerned about maybe "walking down a dark alley".

juicin' john

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