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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: April 18, 2011 06:57PM

KA has a version of the same blender that has a glass carafe? If so, do you think it's safe to operate a 700-watt machine with a glass carafe?

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: April 18, 2011 07:45PM

BW,

My Oster has a glass carafe and operates safely with about a 1000 watts.

Paul



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 07:49PM by pborst.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: April 18, 2011 07:58PM

syadasti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was a single result and there is not clear
> factor to determine BPA leaching in lined cans -
> there are so many variables involved when dealing
> with mass produced products too (they might change
> can vendors or have multiple vendors, a canning
> machine/processing machine might be calibrated
> different, etc). The other two studies did not
> show this result, so one cannot state pH is a
> factor without further research and a body of
> studies confirms or denies its role. This is
> going far off-topic anyways and the key takeaway
> is that the most significant source of BPA in US
> diets is canned goods, not occasional quick use of
> PC blender carafe or juicer that contains plastic
> parts like PC.

It seems like if the data show that solubility is highest at a ph of 5 that this demonstrates PH is a chemical property that affects BPA. Since many vegans don't eat large amounts of canned goods, it seems like a sensible way to minimize exposure from BPA is to choose containers free of the material preferring ceramics, glass and stainless steel to plastics, or at least preferring polymers with a lower potential to leach.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 18, 2011 09:35PM

There were four canned BPA leaching studies (No Silver Lining - The National Work Group for Safe Markets, Dec 2009 - Consumer Reports/Union, Nov 2010 - University of North Texas, and June 2010 - Health Canada) and only one study (UT) had the sample with a pH of 5 that rated highest in that specific study. In science lack of consensus means further studies are needed until an emerging body of studies can explain what factors are linked to leaching. The emerging body of studies is the thing the general public doesn't get when they hear about some single study in the news that contradicts general knowledge. A single study might spur more research (well designed) or it might be poorly controlled and worthless.

Two of the studies had green beans scoring highest (green beans have the record for BPA leaching - highest ever recorded). The Canadian study found that canned tuna had the highest levels (some people think that fats and sodium also enhance BPA leaching). Another possible hypothesis is that manufacturers use leach and corrosion resistance linings for very acidic foods which is why tomato and pineapple products scored so low in these tests.

In one of the studies they specifically mentioned cost and source as not being a factor - they found canned organic food at Whole Foods also leaching BPA.


Krefcenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems like if the data show that solubility is
> highest at a ph of 5 that this demonstrates PH is
> a chemical property that affects BPA. Since many
> vegans don't eat large amounts of canned goods, it
> seems like a sensible way to minimize exposure
> from BPA is to choose containers free of the
> material preferring ceramics, glass and stainless
> steel to plastics, or at least preferring polymers
> with a lower potential to leach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 09:36PM by syadasti.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: April 18, 2011 10:37PM

This study seems to suggest a different why acidity accelerates the leaching of BPA rather than solubility as the study you cited above about the ph 5 being the highest for an amphoteric compound. [rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org].

"The data presented in figure 1 reveal that all products leached detectable levels of BPA, although there were differences in the amount of leaching from different manufacturers' products. As expected, the cans that had contained the acidic tomato sauce resulted in the highest BPA values, since acid accelerates hydrolysis of the ester bond linking BPA molecules in polycarbonate and resins."

It seems to suggest that the acid liberates free BPA monomer from polycarbonate.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: juicin' john ()
Date: April 19, 2011 01:13AM

check this out......


[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]



jj

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 19, 2011 02:11AM

Here are the 4 canned BPA studies I mentioned:

[www.hc-sc.gc.ca]

[www.consumerreports.org]

[pubs.acs.org] (login required)

[ej4all.org]

So in 60 years the Waring product now has 3 times the RPM. I always make cold or frozen smoothies with my blender so I'm not so worried about significant oxidation. The high speed ones only require 15-30 seconds of blending for about a 24 oz emulsion, not 5 minute super sessions. With certain warmer and more liquid emulsions you do get some aeration in something like a Vitamix/Blendtec/Waring/etc so I can see how some people prefer a less powerful traditional blender.

I wonder how those giant commercial Waring immersion stick blenders work (1HP input - 6.25A). I've seen one at a local restaurant before but never asked what they make with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2011 02:12AM by syadasti.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: adamlogan ()
Date: April 21, 2011 07:11PM

Yeah like WY said don't get a two speed blender. It is incredibly annoying to have the ingredients splash to the top of the carafe. This means some things like greens get stuck up there and don't get blended. Low to High is easy enough to do on a Vitamix, you don't have a choice if you get a 2 speed blender tho.

If it were me shopping for a blender now, I would stick with the Vitamix I have now (5200 or Turboblend) which works well enough, with the occasional need to use the tamper. Considering what I put in it and the fact that it's a 2.5 hp motor that's not bad. Even still I wish it had more power. Considering other brands and models, without the benefit of a tamper, the real world power of the motor that I would buy would be a huge deal to me.

I prefer the design of the Omega B2400 as it's variable speed and sans timer, but would feel compelled to get the $550 BL630 model. It is just critical to have that power there if you're not going to be using a tamper. But yeah those would be outside of the price range you are looking for, so then Blendtec blenders would become a consideration again as flimsy as they might seem their, their motors seem to have the power apparently, although I don't recognize a difference between my Vitamix.

Considering that you were doing fine with a regular blender, you must not be putting large quantities of tough to blend things in your blender. So a 2HP Omega B2400 or even the Waring MX1000XTX Variable Speed version might be a better fit for you. Then of course all the other consumer brands models you mentioned such as kitchenaid oster, etc.

Maybe you should just try to sleep on it for a few days and try NOT to think about it, then come back and look at the choices with a slightly fresher mindset.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: April 21, 2011 08:48PM

Thanks for the advice, Adam!smiling smiley I am once again leaning towards the VM after watching some demos.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 21, 2011 10:20PM

A tamper is only necessary in a container than does not create the ideal turbulence. Its an extra step and unacceptable in a commercial environment where time is money (which is also why commercial blenders tend to be high powered). With modern computer aided design, its easy for manufacturers to test this and design appropriately. Blendtec's Wildside container wasn't snake oil which is why Vitamix copied this design for commercial applications (and Blendtec sued and blocked them from continuing to sell it):

[www.cleveland.com]

You can check with 3Blenders to see if they are still selling tampers for other blenders if your carafe does not blend well without one (they now only promote their 8A Omni V blender.):

[www.3blenders.com]

Thomas Fox has 72 videos on blenders on youtube, check his channel - it might be helpful:

[www.youtube.com]

Banana, what are you using your blender for primarily? If you don't blend large quantities or difficult things and don't mind a longer blend cycle, a standard blender will be fine. As I said before some people also don't like the added aeration of high powered blenders - have you compared it to what you are use to?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2011 10:22PM by syadasti.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: April 22, 2011 12:00AM

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the advice, Adam!smiling smiley I am once again
> leaning towards the VM after watching some demos.

I am too BW. I really like the design and ergonomics of the VM Pro 500. The manager of the Williams Sonoma was kind enough to let me demo it in the store. It is very quiet compared with my Blendtec and doesn't move at all. The rubber in the handle and base provide sound dampening. I think if you blend every day, Vitamix is a good investment.

Paul

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: April 22, 2011 12:22AM

Syadasti: It depends on what you consider 'difficult.' I would like to make green smoothies that really break down the cellulose. I also would like to make seed mylks where they are so smooth that straining bags are unnecessary. I think there is so much nutrition thrown out when we strain and yet sometimes the texture is too lumpy without straining. Do you think there is a clear difference in blending seeds in a Vitamix?

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 22, 2011 12:52AM

You'll probably need something like a Vitamix/Waring/Blendtec then.

Some videos I recall from 3blenders (I haven't seen many):

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 22, 2011 02:39AM

Here is an overview of Vitamix's top of the line blender - Blending Station Advance. Since Vitamix was sued and no longer can use the 5-sided Blendtec carafe design, they designed their new top of the line Advance Carafe. Like the Waring and the especially effective Blendtec Wildside Carafe, no tamper/plunger used through better design:

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2011 02:41AM by syadasti.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: adamlogan ()
Date: April 22, 2011 02:58AM

I agree somewhat with Syadasti to some extent but not entirely about the tamper being a crutch for what could be a better designed carafe and vortex. A tamper is probably not necessary if you put things in as you go if you do things in the correct order and in stages. But if you fill up your carafe with dense nutritious food, I have a hard time believing that a blender in the half a grand price range is going to suck that straight down and cycle that back up with most of that dense stuff still sitting up there blocking the way AKA over blending portions.

When I first started blending, I was just putting things in as I went because before I got my Vitamix when I was using an immersion blender with a food prep attachment (lol) that was pretty much mandatory. But now that I'm using the Vitamix, I still use the same process sorta but I can just kinda layer it all in the carafe and do it in one go, then I do a second run. After the first blend run the once full carafe is about half full or so. I can then put more stuff in there. So the tamper isn't just making up for a bad vortex or something, it can pack more content into the volume of the carafe. I love this because then I can taste the blend then decide if it needs more flavor (fruits) or more good stuff (greens etc).

It's very useful with very thick dense blends. I'm kinda crazy though. I'm the kid who wanted to see how much and what objects the vacuum cleaner could suck up. I'd love to see if my Vitamix can handle a Avocado seed, but won't go that far. Fortunately I have the ability to restrain myself ;-). I didn't go all out and buy a commercial grade blender either although I still fantasize and would love to see what they can do in person ha ha.

Vitamix has it's work cut out for it in terms of one upping their competitors in terms of whipping out another innovation and I'm sure it hurt in a number of ways that they lost that patent infringement lawsuit to Blendtec.

At this point I'm really happy Omega is coming onto the scene. This sector needs some more competition. Is hoping that this stops being a two party battle: government included heh. I'm glad Waring is still around, but Waring and Omega will need to market better and start doing demos to keep up with Blendtec's far reaching sensationalistic advertising.

As far as seeds, you really would need to get the most powerful motor you're willing to part money for such as the Vitamix Blendstation Advance if you don't want to feel any seeds and want the smoothest smoothie possible. Otherwise all of the blenders we are discussing will pulverize them for the most part, but they will still be felt here and there if you're thinking about it. It depends on the seeds too. I don't think that hard when I'm drinking my smoothie so I don't notice them. I notice the overall flavor of a smoothie more than texture.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 22, 2011 03:34AM

Actually the Blendtec/Ktec Smoother(and the ICB7 for home users) 20A is noticeably more powerful than the Vitamix Advance at 15A but I don't see how most people could justify any $800-900 blender (and the dedicated wiring+NEMA 5-20R receptacle in the case of the Blendtec 20AMP motor).

People with high-end anything are usually arguing over VERY diminishing returns - often marketing points even - rather than significant differences. Especially for the home user, the bang for buck on these models is very low and the cognitive dissonance is off the charts. The differences and end results aren't going to blow you away so unless you revolve around your blender, don't sweat the minute details.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2011 03:38AM by syadasti.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: April 23, 2011 12:09PM

hey adam, check out the blendtec total blenderin person or on youtube, youl see it sucks it all down, mine is the total blender, cost me $417, every morning I fill it up with all sorts of stuff, mostly fruits and greens, some frozen, I pay no attention to order, just toss it in, then use on average between 1-2 cups liquid, I dont really measure it, I just go by sight, and it sucks everything down, and blends it all smooth, no problem... personally if there had been a blendtec and a vitamix in front of me at the time for the same price,, and counter space wasn't an issue, I probably would have gotten a vitamix, mostly because its quieter, but lets be honest here, the blendtec does what it says it does, you may have a hard time believing it, but it does... they are both awesome blenders however, I dont think a person can really go wrong either way, in the end depends mostly on whether somebody wants a tall but quieter blender (which also might do greens a tiny bit better from what I can tell do to the sharper blades, as long as one doesnt use ice in it a lot), or a shorter noisier blender you dont need a tamper for...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: April 23, 2011 02:09PM

All of these high-end blenders are noisy.

You can buy aftermarket sound enclosures for Vitamix and Blendtec which reduce the noise by 1/5-1/4:

[www.blendersoundbox.com]

Waring sell a factory solution for not much more:

[www.theblenderplace.com]

If you buy from some resellers (like TBP for the Waring link above) they sometimes have a 30-day return policy for blenders. I don't know the return policy details or specific brands this applies to, but it would be a good option if you aren't certain about your decision.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: Krefcenz ()
Date: April 25, 2011 04:49PM

depending on your circumstances, a good pair of foam earplugs could do the trick.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: Curator ()
Date: April 26, 2011 08:24AM

yeah, the funny thing is my last cheap blender was almost as noisy as my blendtec, now I wonder if there was something wrong with it,LOL... but I dont really have a problem with the noise, even with the worlds quietest blender, I still wouldnt be able to use it in the middle of the night,lol...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: April 26, 2011 02:01PM

About the VM 4500: I checked on rawfoodword site and they are selling a version that supposedly is an improvement: doesn't heat up as fast, quieter, lid comes off easier, etc. I wonder if the stuff doesn't splash into the lid, too? (By the way, couldn't you just keep the speed on low?)

[www.therawfoodworld.com]

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: adamlogan ()
Date: April 26, 2011 10:07PM

@ Curator

I'll call up Costco and ask when the next Blendtec demo is. I trying different wares.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: Wheatgrass Yogi ()
Date: April 27, 2011 01:32AM

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....(By the way,
> couldn't you just keep the speed on low?)
Unless the mixture is very liquid, keeping the
blender on Low for more than a few seconds puts a strain
on the Motor.....WY

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: shazz150 ()
Date: May 11, 2011 02:46PM

www.horchow.com has a sale on till may 18th on the VM pro500. Vitamix mentioned when I called them last year, that the name may vary for the high-end stores but the product is the same ...........they are on sale from $599.00 with 30%off for $419.00 plus shipping and tax.
Just thought I'd throw that out there, not in the market for a blender since I already own a Vitamix so I don't know if the price is competitive or not........
can't hurt to take alook!!

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: May 11, 2011 04:27PM

I looked at that sale and it's $599 on sale!

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: syadasti ()
Date: May 11, 2011 06:42PM

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I looked at that sale and it's $599 on sale!

You forgot to read the description

Quote

Pro500 Blender
Everything Sale: 25% to 30% off entire site with code HCEVERY. 25% off furniture, rugs, and curtains; 30% off everything else. Savings reflected in checkout. Sale ends May 18, 2011, at 6:00 a.m

I think you'd agree - it would be more helpful for the average consumer if Vitamix didn't market their products under so many models.

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: May 11, 2011 07:59PM

Just applied the code, etc. and it came out to $498. They charged $50 for "processing." LOL

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: shazz150 ()
Date: May 12, 2011 01:44AM

My apologies! I purchased a VM5200 from Horchow about a year and a half ago and there was no processing/shipping fee. Guess they must have had free shipping at the time since there were no additional charges on my order. I assumed this was the case this time....know what they say about assuming!!!

Well, it was worth a look!!

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: shazz150 ()
Date: May 12, 2011 01:44AM

My apologies! I purchased a VM5200 from Horchow about a year and a half ago and there was no processing/shipping fee. Guess they must have had free shipping at the time since there were no additional charges on my order. I assumed this was the case this time....know what they say about assuming!!!

Well, it was worth a look!!

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Re: I think my search is over!smiling smiley
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: May 12, 2011 06:31PM

shazz150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My apologies! I purchased a VM5200 from Horchow
> about a year and a half ago and there was no
> processing/shipping fee. Guess they must have had
> free shipping at the time since there were no
> additional charges on my order. I assumed this was
> the case this time....know what they say about
> assuming!!!
>
> Well, it was worth a look!!

Shazz, thanks for the tip. I have been looking for a sale Pro 500 price for some time now. And you just saved me $110. I just purchased a Vitamix Pro 500 from Horchow. I may or may not sell my Blentec with its 3 quart carafe on Craigslist depending on how much I like the Vitamix. I will report on it latter.

Paul

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