...and now I'm looking for something better.

I've read all the posts that I can here, but I still have a few lingering questions because of the fate of my previous blender. Here's some info that might help.

I'm not on a raw foods diet, but I like smoothies with lots of raw vegetables in them. I'm sure it's nothing fancy for you guys, but here is my current set of ingredients: about 2 big handfuls of baby spinach, a banana, a large handful of baby carrots, a little flaxseed oil, about 100-150cc of whey protein powder, and about two 16oz cups of ice. (I think it's the protein powder that killed the blender.) This yields a little more than three 16oz cups of thick smoothie.

Unfortunately, I burned out the Vitamix's motor about a week ago. It's under warranty, and they'll be replacing it, but I have a feeling that I need something more powerful. I seem to be extremely hard on motors, but I'm not sure how not to be:

1. I like them thick. (lots of ice) I drink them through a straw, but I like to work for my smoothie. :-) Plus, it paces out the meal.

2. I like my protein powder. (and I wasn't kidding about that being a blender-killer) BTW, I'm open to suggestions if there's a better way to get protein in my smoothies.

3. I like making large quantities. I usually drink them all while playing on the computer or watching TV, and don't want to be bothered with making more.

I usually have the blender on a mid-level speed as I add the spinach, then use the banana to tamp it down while adding the banana. When that's starting to circulate, I sprinkle in the carrots. Then I add the protein powder and turn it on high to blend everything to a nice smoothness. Then I turn it back to mid-level for the first cup of ice. If I don't, it's prone to make a mess... Then, while it's grinding that ice, I get another cup of ice, add that, and turn it on high.

(probably more than you needed to know...)

Anyway, it was that combination that burned out the Vitamix motor. Yes, I know - it has it's own protective breaker, but it only protects if you let it trip and then wait 15 minutes to reset. I thought I was doing the motor a favor by turning it off when I sensed it was close to tripping, removing the carafe, then running it on high for about 20 seconds to allow the motor to cool. That way the breaker wouldn't trip and I could keep making my smoothie. Yeah, I know - call me an idiot.

The end result for my Vitamix is that it gets put under growing stress until I add the ice. The combination of ice and protein powder produces a viscous mixture that requires everything the motor can give, while not letting it operate remotely close to it's max speed. I was honestly amazed by what it was able to accomplish, but I clearly need more.

I don't like the Blendtec/K-tec because of it's lack of switches and dials. That, and it doesn't seem built for me to add food to it while it's going. And, no, I'm not going to run a separate circuit for their new 20 amp blender.

That leaves the Vita-Prep or the Waring MX1200 series (I like the variable speed dial). Given what I've told you, do any of you have opinions about either of these blenders, or my smoothies, that might help me?

Thanks in advance.

geekinthehood

I'll recap briefly some points that I've made in previous posts, although for more complete info I'd suggest going into search mode & finding my earlier posts..

First, by moving up to the Vita-Prep 3 you will be purchasing a motor that is designed for continuous everyday usage in juice bars, restaurants, by caterers, etc..A better motor then is spec'd in the 4000 & 5000 series blenders..

That being said, it is still all too easy to ruin the motor in the Vita-Prep 3 if your primary reason to use it (75% of the time, or more) will be to create smoothies that are as you have described..

What you need to understand is that ALL blenders, regardless of the wattage & horse power ratings of their electric motors, are designed to break down foods, read blend, from larger pieces into smaller pieces while in a liquid medium that comprises AT LEAST 50% of the volume of the finished product..

When blenders were first invented this is what the engineers discovered was the optimum ratio of solids to liquids that would allow for the quickest blending times, as well as maximum motor longevity..

This is why blenders were almost exclusively used for bar drinks & other liquid concoctions for the first 30-40 years of their existence..

It was only when Vita-Mix invented & marketed the first truly powerful blender that they began to be used for blending thicker & thicker foods..One reason for this is that the original Vita-Mix blenders were sold direct to the consumer..They had a very small advertising budget & their ads were generally found in the back of magazines like Organic Gardening; which for those of you unfamiliar with those times was a cult-like low circulation magazine..

As a result they pushed the envelope as to extolling it's capabilities so as to convince people to spend what was then A LOT of money for a blender..Vita-Mix's have never been inexpensive, so making them seem like a true multi-purpose kitchen tool was virtually a necessity in order to sell them..

Because this type of advertising has persisted to this day & is now the commonly accepted way to promote the new blenders, people have come to think that the newer more powerful blenders (regardless of brand) are capable of ANYTHING; which they obviously are not, as you have discovered..

If the type & thickness of smoothies that you describe will comprise 75%, or greater, of your blending tasks ; then as I see things you have three choices..I list these in the order of preference as I see them..

1. Modify the recipe & your habits so as to make the smoothie less thick & more liquid..It is the ratio of solids to liquids that will eventually kill even a Vita-Prep 3..It will just take longer, but eventually it will still happen..

2. Fork out the money for a true top-of-the-line commercial smoothie blender..These come with enclosures to deaden the incredible noise that the vastly more powerful motors put out..Expect to pay from between $1500.00 to $3000.00 for such a machine..The electric motors in these blenders are designed to withstand very high torque loads when both starting up from a cold start, & when adding ingredients to an already blended mixture..

For the user unwilling to compromise on thickness, unwilling to put less ice in a mix, or unwilling to perform blending in multiple steps; I see NO other choice..

3. Keep purchasing the less capable blenders, burning up the motors, & returning them while under warranty..To me this is morally repugnant..However thousands upon thousands of consumers do this all the time, which is one of the main reasons that the cost of appliances is so high..Someone pays, & it is ALWAYS the consumer..

Hopes this helps..

Bruce

How much is the Vita-prep 3?

Bruce -

Thanks a lot for your lengthy response. I've been poking around this board and think that maybe your first suggestion is the one I should follow. (Perhaps my protein intake is a little excessive...) I'm going to start looking for some good smoothie recipes and do some more research into the raw foods diet.

Oddly enough, if my Vitamix hadn't burned out because of too much protein powder (rather symbolic, don't you think?), I would never have found this board.

veggiefreak

The current going price, before shipping, for the Vita-Prep 3 will range from between $425.00 to $475.00; depending upon where you purchase it..

I'm not sure, but I believe that the suggested retail price is $595.00..

Bruce

Interesting - that is about what I paid for the vita-mix 5200. Huh. Maybe I should send it back and get the vita-prep. What do you think? Where can you get the Vita-prep? I only saw it online from individual sellers - working for Vita-prep. I would love to get one for $425-450.

I wonder if I saw a commercial blender, the $1000+ kind, at a second hand store or garage sale I would be able to tell that it was such?

hi geekinthehood

i don't have a high opinion of vitamix
i am not sure why my friend shelled out such big bucks for such a product

the times i had the opportunity to use his blender ....
it was just the most surprisingly inept thing... its performance was SO much the very OPPOSITE of how they advertised it to be... it was quite astonishing

it didn't blend ANYTHING.. it left things in chunks
it always acted as if it was wheezing and sputtering and dying

it always made me afraid to use it
seemed like such a fragile contraption

and the sounds that came out of that thing... sounded like a MONSTER was screaming out hellfire

and it didn't take very long
before it finally just rest its tormented soul and just die

and i don't think i killed it either

shoots... it wouldn't even blend banana and parsley

the parsley would get all stringy

it just REFUSED to blend

i think vitamix is the biggest joke on the planet

then again

i think most blenders are

they just DON'T blend

you have to shake it and cajole it and pray to it and say nice things to it

then u have to get a wooden ( please no metal) little thing and twirl the thing around so that the blades can work on it

then u get afraid that the blades might just work its way up the wooden thing and just BITE you for trying to twirl the ingredients around ( cuz the blender never seem to do what they are supposed to do after a few weeks of use)

blenders are such a trip

that's why i like my greenstar by far


well... blenders, however are the least of my worries

they give me a good laugh though

god bless their tormented LOUD spirits

they sure work hard though ( or at least SOUND as if they do

sometimes loud spirits open and close wounds that wouldn't have had a chance to heal in any other way.

geekinthehood

My experience, & that of the friends and acquaintances that have owned Vita-Mix blenders is the exact opposite of la_veronique's..

The problem with ALL modern kitchen appliances is that the majority of them are not used properly..

Allow me to expand on this theme a little..

I was born into a family of artisans, mechanics, good cooks, & people who generally understood how machines worked..As a result I have seldom ever ruined the electric motor in any appliance, kitchen or otherwise, by misusing it..I sometimes forget that the people that I know intimately, as well as those I meet & know casually, do not have my knowledge..

Most modern men & women are growing up in households where the conventional oven, the microwave oven, & take-out food play a predominate role in heating up already prepared food prior to consumption..

The traditional household, where 90-95% of ALL the food consumed is prepared from scratch, is rapidly becoming a thing of the past..Between the 1930's & the 1980's the cook who learned how to prepare a meal from scratch using only hand tools gradually began to purchase & use machines to help save time in the preparation of the daily meals..

When a cook with an extensive knowledge base of hand cooking techniques & procedures is presented with an electric kitchen appliance they have a MUCH better chance of NOT abusing the tool..This is due to an intuitive understanding of how to take raw ingredients & transform them into the final desired product..With this intuitive understanding comes a good sense of what an appliance can & can not accomplish before the appliance is ever used..This sense allows the cook to decide just how an appliance may shorten the process of taking Ingredient A, Ingredient B, Ingredient C, & Ingredient D, & transforming them into Final Product E..

Knowing all these things helps tremendously in the learning process when a cook is first beginning to use an unfamiliar kitchen appliance..My experiences growing up & cooking with my grandmother, my mother, & all of the various cooking jobs that I have had professionally has led me to the following inescapable conclusion..People who purchase expensive kitchen appliances that do not have this type of background & knowledge base, almost ALWAYS end up abusing their kitchen appliances..

With the outrageous way that some of the newer blenders are being promoted it's no wonder that a lot of people are constantly ruining their expensive blenders..

"I mean, after all, if my new blender will chop up golf balls & cell phones, it must be able to do ANYTHING??..Right??.."

Raw foodists are constantly trying to use a blender for tasks to which they ARE NOT designed for..

As I have posted before the proper ratio of solids to liquids when blending should be AT LEAST 50% liquid..Any less & the blender will eventually struggle to complete the task..Period..This statement flies in the face of what is commonly accepted on raw food forums when it comes to the ingredient lists for virtually every green smoothie recipe that I have read..

Blenders were originally designed to have at least a 50% liquid content when they were first manufactured & brought to market..More powerful electric motors do not negate the fact that without the proper ratio of liquids to solids, the blender will not perform properly..Period..

When you take 2 cups of water, add 2 cups of ice CUBES (not crushed ice), add frozen chunks of banana, 1-4 cups of fruit, & 2- 4 cups (sometimes more) of greens with thick stems (and LOTS of stringy fiber) is it ANY wonder that even a Vita-Prep 3 blender will fail to properly blend such ingredients??..And this IS NOT that atypical of an ingredient list ..

I mean, come on folks, these are NOT miracle machines..

Blenders DO NOT have sharp blades..The blades of a blender are squared off & dull..The blades of a blender depend upon SMASHING & CRUSHING in order to reduce foods to smaller & smaller size particles..They do not CUT foods into smaller pieces, they smash it into smaller pieces..

Without a sufficient ratio of liquids to solids in the carafe the blender CAN NOT create a vortex..Without a vortex, the solid foods in the carafe WILL NOT be pulled down into the blades where they can be broken down to the desired size..Sufficient liquid is necessary in order for the solids to freely move about the carafe, suspended within the liquid, being pulled down into the blades by the vortex, over & over again, until the desired consistency is reached..

Has anyone ever wondered WHY Vita-Mix blenders come STANDARD with a tamper??..And other blenders do not??..It is because when Vita-Mix decided that in order to convince people to pay so much for their blender (compared to the Hamilton-Beach & Waring blenders of the time), they realized that they were going to have to promote their blender as being capable of blending tasks that the other two were not capable of..This meant emphasizing that a Vita-Mix could blend much thicker (less liquid) mixtures then could the Waring or Hamilton-Beach..Their engineers soon realized that a tamper was a necessity in order to stir thick mixtures around by hand..Because once a mix reaches a certain thickness (it will depend, varying upon the power of the electric motor, & the efficiency of the blades to create a vortex) hand stirring becomes a NECESSITY..

If a Vita-Mix blender is properly utilized, & not overloaded there is no reason that it will not reduce thick, stringy greens to a small particle size in order to drink them in a smoothie..If you want your smoothie to have the texture of very thick soft-serve ice cream (where you can stand up a heavy stainless steel spoon in it without the spoon falling over) then you need to purchase a commercial smoothie blender with enclosure that will cost a whole lot more then a Vita-Prep 3..

Bruce

nori

<<sometimes loud spirits open and close wounds that wouldn't have had a chance to heal in any other way.>>

hmmm... interesting
yes, i agree sometimes calamity precedes calm

bruce

the thing is
i babied those blenders
and i put in such small amounts

liquids: yes
small amounts of greens chopped : yes
small amounts of fruit ( never frozen) : yes

i had no other choice
if it didn't do medium ( let alone big ) amounts very well
i logically just teased in small amounts but sizable so it could have something to work with

i never used ice or powders either
well, the vitamix wasn't my blender anyhow

and like i mentioned
i would put in small amounts then cajole it a bit
sometimes i had to kind of sway it to and fro so that the blades would "take" it



it was a friend's
and i used it when i went over his house

which is another reason i took care to be careful with it
but even he admitted " i can't believe i spent so much money for this. look at its performance"

the blenders that i bought however
were pretty cheap

and that too may have been the problem

but i figure "hey, if the vitamix... the supposed rolls royce of blenders is working to such below par standards, why shell out any extra dough?

i'm glad that your mechanical artistry allows your blender to have a greater half life

this is a very good thing

the only machine in the homogenizing department that has worked for me is

GREENSTAR

i've had it for a few years now ( works like a dream)
previous to that , i had a centrifugal OMEGA juicer for several years ( no problems at all whatsoever)

so the trend seems to be that i get along with my juicing machines

with blending machines.... i sort of ( and i say sort of because i always leave a margin of hope)

kind of relinquished the idea of any blender working to its advertised shelf life

my juice machines seem to have a half life of "eternity"

blenders... seem to have a half life of " forget it"

but like i said
i haven't given up ALL hope

vitamix doesn't speak for all the other more decent blenders

it was just my experience

so it has kind of been two extremes

VITAMIX ( top of the line)

cheap blenders ; bottom of the line

maybe something in between and betwixt would solve this

but for now

it really isn't a dilemma for me

i blend my smoothies through the greenstar too and it works well

it has a blank slip that u put in it and it allows the greens to come out tasting fantastically flavorful with no water whatsoever

and i can put small amounts of fruits ( though not a lot because it was meant for GREENS mostly)

so i'm appeased

Everyone -

Thanks again for the comments. I really didn't have a problem with the Vita-mix as a blender - I thought it did a great job. Would I like more power? Sure, but I think that as Bruce pointed out, I bought into the advertising that goes along with it - that it's indestructible.

That, and I was using a smoothie as a substitute for a milk shake, not a well thought out nutritious and delicious drink. I've gotten to where I am by accident, but now I'm on the hunt for some seriously good smoothie recipes to use with my soon-to-be reincarnated Vita-mix. If it breaks after 5 years, it'll be out of warranty and I'll buy something else. For now, Bruce is right - I need to learn how to use it properly.

I know I've said this before, but a thick mixture without protein powder isn't nearly as viscous as a thick mixture with protein powder. It's like trying to mix honey - you can mix it slowly, but mixing it fast is much, much harder.

As I said, I'll be searching for good smoothie recipes, but if anyone knows of a good repository if them, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

geekinthehood

The major problem that I have with any type of supplement powder that significantly thickens a smoothie during the short time that it is being blended is this:

If it is thickening a smoothie in the 30-60 seconds that it is being blended, then it MUST be absorbing the liquid in the smoothie..

And if it's absorbing the liquid in the smoothie, then by design it must also be absorbing liquid while being digested in the stomach & colon..

And if the powders are absorbing water while being digested, then additional water NEEDS to be consumed in order to compensate for this..

However, the problem, as I see things, is that virtually none of the manufacturers of these powder products will tell the consumer what ratio of extra water per tablespoon of powder used that you need to consume in order to allow for proper digestion, much less to avoid dehydration..

And as much as ALL of these products cost, a hit & miss approach to water consumption is unacceptable..

I won't even start to get into the true effectiveness of these products (questionable, IMO)..I'll leave that to others..

Bruce

la veronique,
You are so inspiring. I like that idea of using the Greenstar with the homogonizing blank instead of a blender. Probably less oxygination & heat. I've been thinking about that. Isn't there a fruit attachment you can get for the Greenstar? I wonder if that would help with adding more fruit? I wonder if the Omega 8003 could do green smoothies too.

geekinthehood,
If you haven't already, check out the thread on this site "I hate green smoothies" for lots of green smoothie recipes. I'm planning to try them all.

hi la pieta

they do have an attachment for fruit "juice" which basically looks the same as the attachment for the green juice except that the holes in the sieve are a tad big larger in diameter

the plastic cylinder attachment that has a squarish opening is what i use for the smoothies

you are correct in that

1) the heat is cut down substantially since the two grooved blades rotate very slowly ( u can actually discern its rotation with your eyes.. which is not true for the centrifugal juicers as they go so fast.. it is just one blur)

2) the flavor is a LOT more pronounced ( and i feel it too)

3) u don't need to add any water

the down side of using greenstar for your smoothies is that it may take a tad bit longer, and there is the clean up

however... if u are used to doing it for a while

u can do it blindfolded and time yourself

and well... its really not that much of a chore for me ... i'm used to it

i mostly use it for the green juices

but when i 'm hankering for a smoothie

it works

Thanks la veronique.
DDo you think the fruit attachnment is worth it, or could you get by just using the green juice attachment instead for most fruit juice?

Hi La pieta

excellent question

the fruit juice attachment has holes in it that are just a tad bit larger
however it DOES help if you use the fruit juice attachment instead of the attachment for green juice because fruits are very sloshy and you need the slighter larger holes in order for you to strain it better

u can still get by using the green juice attachment but if you had a choice to:

1) park your car in a space where you didn't have to squeeze yourself out of the door ( like toothpaste) because your car is parked so closely to the car next to you


OR

2) park your car in a space where you could actually OPEN the car door and just walk out of your car since you had a LITTLE bit more space to the car parked next to you,
which would you pick?

anyhow... that's kind of like that..

but i will say that it does smoothies(using the rectangular opening ) a lot better than it does fruit juice ( like i said fruits are sloshy and a strain for any juicer to extract more than a few)

but it is great for green leaves ( does it in a snap )

Thanks again la veronique, that helps.