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California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: March 02, 2010 10:24AM

I went into Whole Foods a few weeks ago, and they had this warning on the "raw" almonds. In california, they are allowed to still call the almonds "raw", though they are all steamed in order to sterilize the skins of disease. Or treated with a toxic gas. This is sad, in the sense that jeez, california is one of the worlds largest producers of almonds, for sure the biggest producer in USA. I just want people who are truly striving to eat living foods, to know the truth. As we must stick together, this is the purpose of this awesome site is to spread the knowledge, and share or experiences.
What I know thus far is that for most folks, raw cashews are not raw at all, unless you spend A LOT of money ordering them from like one company. I'd assume like 90% of the "raw" almonds we get are probably steamed.
I have started buying these almonds that are TRULY raw, they come from the east coast somewhere. Oh well. we gotta just keep on truckin' !

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: March 02, 2010 03:25PM

RAWLION Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went into Whole Foods a few weeks ago, and they
> had this warning on the "raw" almonds. In
> california, they are allowed to still call the
> almonds "raw", though they are all steamed in
> order to sterilize the skins of disease. Or
> treated with a toxic gas. This is sad, in the
> sense that jeez, california is one of the worlds
> largest producers of almonds, for sure the biggest
> producer in USA. I just want people who are truly
> striving to eat living foods, to know the truth.
> As we must stick together, this is the purpose of
> this awesome site is to spread the knowledge, and
> share or experiences.
> What I know thus far is that for most folks, raw
> cashews are not raw at all, unless you spend A LOT
> of money ordering them from like one company. I'd
> assume like 90% of the "raw" almonds we get are
> probably steamed.
> I have started buying these almonds that are TRULY
> raw, they come from the east coast somewhere. Oh
> well. we gotta just keep on truckin' !

I wrote a thread on this recently on here. This is criminal and there is no excuse for it. I wrote to Trader Joe's about their almonds and they told me that their Valencia ones (from Spain) are truly raw. They did disclose that they have other ones which are not (but strangely labeled as such, which shouldn't be). Read the packages and you will be able to buy the ones from Spain (they were also organic and I think that 12 oz. were about $6.49, which is pretty decent).

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: GilmoreGirl ()
Date: March 04, 2010 01:44PM

There are plenty of California farms with truly raw organic almonds.

Simple Raw Recipes & Health Tips

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: March 05, 2010 02:59AM

Yes, there are some farms that go to extreme measures to sterilize the outer hull of the almonds. But the one company I found ran out a while ago. I couldn"t find any on the website you posted. The ones I buy come from vermont or somewhere. Every farm in california that grows almonds must either steam the slmonds on the outside quickly, or spary some toxic gas on them to kill bugs or molds etc. Even the farms that have TRULY raw almonds, they still have to STEAM the nuts. they do so in a very high tech fashion. They use a quick quick steam method with a vacuum pump to remove the steam so quickly that it doesn't kill the nut. this is ONE farm I found. ALL the major suppliers from out here, in cali, steam their almonds. ALL OF THEM! they are legally still allowed to call them raw. truly raw. super raw. lovingly raw. ultra raw. whatever raw. there are no regulations on the word raw.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: March 05, 2010 08:39AM

GilmoreGirl is correct. California almond growers are allowed by California law to sell 100 lbs/day of truely raw almonds at their farm, at their roadside stand or at their personal farmers market table. They can also sell them overseas truely raw, and to industry with the understanding that further food processing will be done to pasteurize them prior to getting to the consumer.

I think some internet sellers are getting truely raw almonds in this way by going to California and buying them face to face from the farmer 100 lbs at a time.

Any almonds shipped from California to consumers anywhere in the US must be treated like RAWLION says. Face to face sales by the farmer are exempt up to 100 lbs/day per person in the state of California, that is, almonds straight off the tree with no processing of any kind, no heat, no steam, no gas, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2010 08:44AM by loeve.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: March 05, 2010 09:15AM

RAWLION,
It just occured to me you live in California. Another CA resident here traveled hours within the state to get truely raw almonds in season direct from the farmer face to face, and was offering to share them with another forum member who lived out of state. Good deal! That same farmer shipping almonds destined for the consumer within the state would have to pasteurize them.

"Controversially, California almonds labeled as "raw" are required to be steam-pasteurized or chemically treated with propylene oxide. This does not apply to imported almonds,[25] or to almonds sold from the grower directly to the consumer in small quantities.[26] Nor is the treatment required for raw almonds sold as exports to countries outside of North America." Wikipedia

It looks like almonds from Spain can be sold here truely raw. Thanks for the info.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: March 07, 2010 03:30AM

AWESOME info........
Thats what this board is all about, good ol communication !
I gotta look into that.

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: March 08, 2010 10:57AM

RAWLION Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AWESOME info........
> Thats what this board is all about, good ol
> communication !
> I gotta look into that.

Very nice picture, RAWLION, how old is your little one?

A few years ago when this almond pasteurization law was a heated debate, I looked up the new California state statute on-line. Apparently it only applies to almonds grown in CA, and is tough on growers there though they still have a few avenues to sell them truely raw. It wouldn't be difficult to track the statute down again...

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: March 09, 2010 07:39PM

I have twins who are 7 months old, a boy and a girl! and i have a 4 year old angel too! I went raw to live long enough to teach em what I know.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: March 10, 2010 07:48AM

Wow, twins.. my brother has twins, there're great.. and an angel.. sweet.. thanks for the reply.

I checked the almond pasteurization law and exemptions and they cover Shipments. Face to face sales by the grower may be a grey area, the Almond Board of California apparently having dropped the langauge expressly exempting grower roadside sales of unpasteurized almonds of 100 pounds per person per day --


Exemptions from Pasteurization

In order to provide the assurance to consumers that the California Almond industry is taking every precaution to provide the safest, highest quality almonds in the world, almond suppliers must have the certainty that all almonds reaching consumers have undergone a process to reduce levels of Salmonella by a minimum of 4-logs.

Therefore, pasteurization at the handler level or by a Custom Processor is required for shipments of raw almonds with the following exemptions:

(1) Shipments of untreated almonds directly to approved Direct Verifiable (DV) users within North America (U.S., Canada & Mexico) which must be labeled as “unpasteurized” on all bulk packaging (e.g. cartons, boxes, tote bags, etc.).

(2) Shipments to export markets not within North America which must be labeled as “unpasteurized” on all bulk packaging (e.g. cartons, boxes, tote bags, etc.).

[www.almondboard.com]

..like they say, pasteurization is done at the "handler" or Custom processor level. The grower *may* be able to sell unpasteurized almonds face to face to the consumer. Then again maybe not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 08:01AM by loeve.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: lunachica ()
Date: March 16, 2010 10:20PM

I sell unpasturized Organic Italian almonds on my website if your interested. I generally sell them locally to customers in my store or those who take my classes. I actually prefer them to the California - they are smaller but much more almondy tasting. You can check my website for more info: [www.turquoisebarn.com] - scroll down to the bottom and the almond info is there.
M

www.turquoisebarn.com

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: March 22, 2010 05:42AM

AWESOME,i have been looking for you,you must be my spirit guide. i will be ordering a 25# bag once i got the $!!!

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 22, 2010 07:56PM

unfortunately, the almonds coming from europe aren't raw either unless they are flown in, which would make them exceptionally expensive. the freight shipping of anything across an ocean subjects the items shipped to high temperatures of heat for long periods of time.

they use big metal shipping containers for all items. during the multiple day voyage across the ocean, the metal boxes are in the sun for anywhere from 10-16 hours a day depending on what time of year it is and what the weather is like. the inside of the metal containers gets exponentially hotter than the outside air (same as your car does when it sits in the sun).

i personally don't consider foods from oversees to be raw, unless special precautions have been made. and you can be assured that if special precautions are made, they will advertise as such and sell the product at a price that reflects the extra money spent on special care.

as for the flavor of the almond, it is specific to the variety. most almonds sold in america are the nonpareil. they are the clean, perfect looking almond, but their flavor is inferior to most other varieties. leave it to the demands of the common americans to make this one the most popular. there are farmers in california growing many different varieties, including the variety most common in italy.

my vote is for spending a little more energy in tracking down truly raw, unpasteurized almonds grown in california. they are not only local, but are the only almonds that i would consider truly raw.

blessings

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 22, 2010 10:04PM

Hey, good info right there. Thanks for that.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: March 26, 2010 02:59AM

I feel ya fredloves, BUT two things make this not an accurate assumption. First, almonds are harvested in fall, so most are shipped during cold winter months and early spring. Second, greenhouse effect caused in a hot car is due to the glass being clear allowing the sun to beam through and the heat to not be able to escape due to the car being mostly sealed. A shipping crate is often, yes, warmer than its surroundings, but typically not exponentially. And the most important thing to remember, is the italian almonds that i get still SPROUT!!!

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: BackAgain ()
Date: March 31, 2010 06:39PM

This isn't new. We've had that sign at WholeFoods here for a few years now.. it started after that whole stupid thing with California pasteurizing the almonds.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: April 03, 2010 01:10PM

No, it isn't new, just like government oppression. But if those of us who know dont tell others, many would go on eating pounds of dead nuts thinking they are raw. I just bought a bag of truly raw almonds from oregon !!! they are dank. It is obvious too, because all the nuts i had tried for years that said RAW, were kinda chewy and i just thought thats how raw almonds are. NOPE!!! truly raw alonds are crunchy like they are roasted. BRIGHT EARTH FOODS is the brand. its in those brown paper type envelopes.

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: April 03, 2010 01:45PM

Do you know if almonds in shells are pasteurized, also? By the way, I love what you say about government oppression. And we have to ask ourselves why "they" would target almonds? When I found out that almonds are unique in their alkanity as nuts, I grew very suspicious. Of course, I already mentioned that laetrile comes from Vitamin B17, found in almonds. They call it "controversial" cancer treatment in the USA, but they do it in Mexico. Farrah went and got treated, I think, but perhaps it was already too late. Imagine if eating raw almonds was enough to ensure a cancer-free life?

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: RAWLION ()
Date: April 05, 2010 12:04PM

I assume if its in the shell that they are still raw, I hadn't thought of that.!!!
MORE RESEARCH!
I also assume the reason they steam them is to kill off germs off the outside of the nut since the shell is removed. OR maybe they are all steamed in the shell before shelling. BUT that seems unlikely as that would take much longer, require more energy to heat, and take up much more space in their machines. I gotta look that up.

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: April 09, 2010 09:25AM

Your info helped me much.


-----------
Indian Sweets

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: April 21, 2010 03:02PM

My husband, SmoothieDad smiling smiley, and I just hate the idea of eating food that has been tampered with! So we've decided to buy unpasteurized almonds for our coop group, [BulkNaturalFoods.com], in bulk from a little-known grower in California.

Anyone living in Tennessee can order with us in increments of 5 lbs, and pick up locally.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 22, 2010 07:22AM

Hi SmoothieMom, I've read of a few exemptions from the CA pasteurization law including sales to the food industry. Did your coop qualify under that exemption or did you find another route?

Is there a limit to how much the coop can buy or other conditions of sale?

In any case that's great news!

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: la_veronique ()
Date: April 26, 2010 07:22AM

i give up
totally confused

its like i read one post saying certain ones are indeed raw
and another post saying those certain raws are NOT raw

so i give up

will either grow em
or avoid them

i don't understand these posts at all

which ones ARE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT RAW??
with ZERO "high tech" steaming etc.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 26, 2010 04:19PM

It's confusing allright.

> Exemptions from Pasteurization
>
> In order to provide the assurance to consumers
> that the California Almond industry is taking
> every precaution to provide the safest, highest
> quality almonds in the world, almond suppliers
> must have the certainty that all almonds reaching
> consumers have undergone a process to reduce
> levels of Salmonella by a minimum of 4-logs.
>
> Therefore, pasteurization at the handler level or
> by a Custom Processor is required for shipments of
> raw almonds with the following exemptions:
>
> (1) Shipments of untreated almonds directly to
> approved Direct Verifiable (DV) users within North
> America (U.S., Canada & Mexico) which must be
> labeled as “unpasteurized” on all bulk
> packaging (e.g. cartons, boxes, tote bags, etc.).
>
>
> (2) Shipments to export markets not within North
> America which must be labeled as
> “unpasteurized” on all bulk packaging (e.g.
> cartons, boxes, tote bags, etc.).
>
> [www.almondboard.com]
> ety/Pasteurization/PasteurizationProgram/Exemption
> s/Pages/Default.aspx
>

So, SmoothieMom, you must fall under exemption (1) above, an "approved direct verifiable user"??? though they don't exactly define the expression, a grower selling to an "approved DV" members-only co-op could trace a shipment of raw almonds to the end consumers, if need be, in case a bad batch got out and there was a need for notification.

Oh, and the term "Approved DV User" implies there is an approval process to go through and therefore a list somewhere of Approved DV users that we can seek out so we can all find a list of approved sources of unpasteurized almonds???

Thank you in advance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2010 04:31PM by loeve.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 26, 2010 04:44PM

..strike that. The DV user program is for manufactureres and seems to mandate eventual pasteurization.

[www.almondboard.com]

I'm stumped.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 27, 2010 07:12AM

So, there is a list of Approved DV Users (manufacturers who are shipped unpasteurized almonds and then pasteurize them as part of their processing method) --

[www.almondboard.com]

All DV users pasteurize their almonds, the method appearing on the list.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 27, 2010 08:19AM

"which ones ARE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT RAW??
with ZERO "high tech" steaming etc."

There are board members who have made the trek to a California almond grower and bought unpasteurized almonds face to face. These almonds are not "shipped". Shipped CA almonds are regulated. Face to face sales made by the grower to the consumer are not.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 27, 2010 09:52AM

"The Final Rule for the Mandatory Pasteurization of California Almonds was published in the Federal Register as of March 30, 2007, with an effective date of September 1, 2007."

[www.thefederalregister.com]

"DOCUMENT SUMMARY:
"This rule revises the requirements for interhandler transfers of almonds under the administrative rules and regulations of the California almond marketing order (order). The order regulates the handling of almonds grown in California and is administered locally by the Almond Board of California (Board). This rule requires handlers who transfer almonds to other handlers to report to the Board whether or not the almonds were treated to achieve a 4log reduction in Salmonella bacteria (Salmonella). This action will help the Board track treated and untreated almonds and facilitate administration of its mandatory Salmonella treatment program."

The law applies to "interhandlers", that is, "handlers that transfer almonds to other handlers".

The almond grower who sells at roadside stands, by phone, mail order or internet just *may* have a loophole.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 27, 2010 10:28AM

Almond growers are not considered handlers when selling their own almonds at their own roadside stands --

"Who Are Handlers and What Do They Do?

“Handler” means any person handling almonds during any crop year, except that such term shall not include either a grower who sells only almonds of his own production at retail at a roadside stand operated by him..."

[www.almondboard.com]

..so, "a grower who sells only almonds of his own production at retail at a roadside stand operated by him" is not regulated by this law, the way I read it.

Direct grower sales of unpasteurized almonds to the consumer over the internet, by phone or mail order seem to me grey areas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2010 10:38AM by loeve.

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Re: California almonds NOT raw !!!
Posted by: loeve ()
Date: April 27, 2010 11:08AM

BremnerFarmsRoadsideStand near Chico, California looks like a source of organic unpasteurized almonds at only 6$/lb when ordering a 30 lb box at their roadside stand or over the internet--

[www.organicalmondsraw.com]

Has anyone bought from them?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2010 11:14AM by loeve.

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