I will be seeing my dietitian in a few weeks. I am so nervous. She made me feel like I was going to die by being on these raw foods. She was nice and her intentions were good, and because of her I added fish in my diet daily. Which did make me feel better. Here is her letter


Thank you for referring Heather to my outpatient clinic for advice regarding her use of alternative dietary treatments for management of her ulceraltive colitis/proctitis symptoms.

This was a very timely referral for Heather as the dietary strategies she is appylying are a concern. She is using the raw food diet by Paul Nison (you search on Google for him) which has resulted in Heather blending salads, vegetables and fruits as her main nutritonal intakes. This coupled with her vegetarianism (will eat fish 4/5 times per week) leads to an extremely restrictive diet. She has very little protein and severe lack of calories, which has already resulted in a 2.8% weight loss. She reported a normal weitht of 50kg: on assessment today her weight was 48.6kg giving a BMI of 20kg/m2

She expressed that the diet has had a positive influence on her symptoms since her flare 2 weeks prior to our appointment with a reduction in pain and bloating an a reduced freguency of BO. I explained to Heather there is no scientific evidence to support such an approach and that I cannot support its use in the treatment of IBD and that I am extremeely concerned about the level of self imposed dietary restriction she is applying. She agreed to have a thing about its use and concider stopping. Her normal diet is much more balanced but still low in protein but would be much more adaptable.

I would be keen to hear from you or DR Poullis about any further treatment plans for Heather. If you feel it necessary and Heather wishes to pursue a bowel rest approach then it would be more appropriate to consider percribable nutritonal supplements to achieve this.

She has a family history of osteoporosis and the reported history of childhood milk allergy she currently excludes dairy produce. I believe she is awaiting further allergy tests or hydrogen breath tests. I wounder wheather a DEXA scan in view of her positive family history and dietary habits may be warranted. Additionally on her next bloods can she also have her Vitamin D Status checked, Which I can link to her bone health at her next appointment

She did have normal iron, Ferritin and B12 but this will be from her nutritional supplements and not from dietary intakes.


After this I had a panic attack in front of a customer I was serving. I am scard to go back. Last 2 days I have been 90% raw and 10% cooked with the cooked being fish.

whats more extreme? killing an animal and eating it, or the raw food diet?hmm

This dietician doesn't sound very knowledgable, honestly.

"She agreed to have a thing about its use and concider stopping. Her normal diet is much more balanced but still low in protein but would be much more adaptable." And WTF is this sentence? What does it mean? "Her normal diet" as if your changes aren't going to become your new habits. You PAY This woman? I'd go back to someone who respects who you are, the research you have done, your personal experience, and your feelings on hurting animals.

You have to wonder if this woman is losing money by you eating less animal products....I wonder her ties to pharmaceutical and/or dairy industries or if she's just ignorant.

I do think we can further help you with your raw diet and make sure you get enough calories. Don't be afraid to ask, just as you did about your dinner, or PM any one of us - we're mostly friendly folks, and we'll try to help you as best we can.

Don't forget that everything has protein, even fruit.

And also don't forget that some of us had VERY bad diets growing up yet we are okay now. Having a poor diet or taking some time to balance it out (assuming it's not ideal) is not the end of the world.

Relax.

Hellokitty,

I recommend:

a.) asking the dietician for the names and phone numbers of all patients of hers that have presented with clinical protein deficiency, as you will wish to consult with them on signs and symptoms.

b.) asking why she wishes your IBD symptoms to recur--her disapproval of the diet which has caused symptoms to abate means she must fear something worse may occur to you than chronic intestinal bleeding, ulceration, and bowel cancer. Ask her what this may be, as you don't wish to be surprised should you decide to remain raw.

c.) asking her whether she has read the studies linking dairy consumption and osteoporosis. This is an old link, but a good one:
[www.netwellness.org] See if you can find others, so that you are knowledgeable when discussing this with her.

Be polite and kind when asking these questions, not timid nor sarcastic. Do not appear defiant. You are assuming this person means well. Continue to assume this when directing your next conversation with her, and I mean directing--YOU are in charge of your health. Your dietician works WITH you, and that is the dynamic you must insist upon establishing.

Just to give you a bit of perspective, here's the now famous interview with Shazzie and the head of nutrition for the British government, Mrs. Collins:

[www.youtube.com]

I'm not sure I understand--shouldn't the diet of someone trying to recover from a condition like colitis have a restrictive diet--don't you have to cut everything out that gives you more symptoms? And if your "normal diet" caused flares, than who is she to approve that diet? Why does she think that is an option still? Is it considered ideal to take corrosive medications and keep eating a bad diet?

It sounds like she is acting like a typical mainstream dietitian and not someone rationally treating someone with your symptoms. Vegetarianism is pretty mainstream by now, and if your dietitian really thinks it is some bizzare new thing, then she is behind the times. The evidence should really be how YOU feel when eating certain foods, not some abstract 'science' that will support your suffering.

But don't be scared of her; she can't do anything to you; it isn't like this a mental health issue and she can have you committed if you don't do what she says.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2009 12:18AM by wild-aloe.

Thanks for you comments everyone.

Just letting you know maybe this is interesting in a health related fashion. Im actually not against eating meat, or don’t mind if we do kill for meat. We have been doing this practally since humans evolved. Although I do believe that we are suppose to be mostly vegetarian. The only reason I became a vegi was because my body was naturally rejecting meat. I started this about 2 years before I was diagnosed with UC.

For some people they can eat meat. But others can’t eat as much. I believe it’s the way our bodies have adapted.

Although saying I don’t mind that we kill for meat, I do mind the new culture we are in. Like the fast food industry and the supermarket chains. We are so into mass production that we are not killing these animals in the correct way. This is not humane

Some humans eat each other as well. I guess that should continue since it happened previously?

Hellokitty,

I get what you are saying about meat, but that isn't the point of your post, is it? If you cannot make the distinction between animal flesh eating; which is incredibly inflammatory to the intestine, and vegetable protein eating; which is healing, especially if raw, then how can your dietician be expected to? And it is probable that if you aren't sure about what is better or worse for your body, she will think she's being diligent as your medical advisor to argue that your diet is restrictive while ignoring that it's healing you. You will be encouraging her to give you a "panic attack" by not holding your ground about what you think is good for you.

Your predicament is not that you have kwashiorkor, or some other bizarre protein disorder equally unlikely. It is that the regimen your dietician favors is robbing you of health. You must decide where your authority over your health ends and your dietician's authority over your health begins. And you must be careful about it--wild-aloe is right that this woman sounds out-of-touch with modern nutrition theory.

I wish you luck, but urge you to take a stand for the sake of your health. Well-meaning medical professionals kill people every day unintentionally with bad advice and ignorance. Be your own best ally!

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some humans eat each other as well. I guess that
> should continue since it happened previously?


No way humas eating humans. All the trible people who did this went insane.

I do understand what your saying though.

im sorta curious how your dietician came up with the conclusion that you are deficient in protein without any sort of blood testing ?

or have you actually had the blood tests to determine exactly what you are and are not deficient in?

if not then i certainly wouldnt take someones advice based on a visual diagnosis, just my 2 cents

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

All the tribe people went insane? I know some died from mad human disease (forget the other term for it), but similar to BSE.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the tribe people went insane? I know some
> died from mad human disease (forget the other term
> for it), but similar to BSE.


God that makes me feel sick

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im sorta curious how your dietician came up with
> the conclusion that you are deficient in protein
> without any sort of blood testing ?
>
> or have you actually had the blood tests to
> determine exactly what you are and are not
> deficient in?
>
> if not then i certainly wouldnt take someones
> advice based on a visual diagnosis, just my 2
> cents



I did ask her to do a blood test. But she said she was not a doctor and could not order one. So yea it was on visual. But i did add fish daily and did feel stronger when I did this. These dietitans are free on the NHS. I asked to see one because I was starting a raw foods diet. I thought she would recommend some add ons or how I could do things safely. But at the end of the meeting I felt I was going to die. Really thats how my meeting went.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2009 08:18AM by Hellokitty.

I see , well i still wouldnt take the advice based on a visual diagnosis .. if there is any way you can get a range of blood tests to REALLY diagnos what if anything you are deficient in, you should try to get it . No idea how costly that is to you where you are , but it sure saves alot of time, money and grief in the long term rather than stabbing in the dark trying one thing after another.

I hope you are able to find your solutions

do you have a history of eating disorders by any chance that would make this practicioner so concerned? if you dont want to answer publically you can send me a private message or tell me to mind my own bizness, im not trying to pry just trying to help

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I never mind answering questions, I cannot get help if I do not. There are no eating disorders in my family. The only problems my family had were obesity. When I was a teen I did worry about putting on weight, this was because my mother was obese and very unhappy about this to the point of being a manic depressive.

But I am not anorexic, I want to stay the weight I am, I don’t want to drop weight. I want to look healthy and be healthy. I did have problems eating when I was a baby I rejected all food and would not eat. Why I don’t know, because I sure loved burgers and frys when I got older. I love sweet things as well. I crave fast food all the time.

This is why I do watch my weight though on the raw foods is because I don’t want to eat too litte, especially as I am not used to eating a lot of fruit.

Utopian Life,

Cruetzfeldt-Jakob Syndrome. Some Pacific tribes probably still practice occasional ritual cannibalism. There is no Global Cannibalism Police, alas.

Hellokitty,

Reading your most recent posts, I have to say this dietician sounds like she's guessing. She cannot possibly know what is going on with you internally without testing. I agree with Jgunn that she needs more information before recommending something to you. If she's going on just what she was taught in school about people "needing" animal tissue to thrive, without doing further investigating, that's just . . . negligence. I would never ask any dietician I've met for advice about a raw foods diet because it is unlikely they'd know much about raw foods. Indeed, most dieticians I've met still think vegetarianism leads to iron-deficiency anemia. Their breadth of knowledge is narrow.

Ultimately, what I eat is MY responsibility, and so it is with you. Please do more independent research about raw foods so that you can discuss this knowledgeably and convincingly with the dietician when next you see her. Good luck!

I almost wrote "CJ syndrome." Thanks....the word(s) weren't coming to me.

I agree that the dietician is talking about of her....well, she's not basing her advice on anything.

ok thanks for all your guys advice,

No more talk about humans eating humans. I feel up and down today and the even though of eating meat or talk about any sorts of meet (except fish) makes me feel weird.

Thanks guys

Can I ask why you care less for the life of a fish than the life of a human?

If I were you, I would consult with a different nutritionist/dietician or a naturopath. Find someone in your area who has an extensive background in treating patients with interests in alternative diets, rather than someone who has no clue as to what a living foods diet is all about. There are several nutritionists in my area who are vegan and living foods friendly and when I had issues with protein, they suggested things like nuts and seeds to me quite frequently.

To appease your dietician, if you continue seeing her, you might be interested in adopting a "raw protein powder" to your diet, if things like nuts and seeds would be hard to digest for you (since you mentioned having gastrointestinal issues). There are many different ones on the market made from bases of brown rice, hemp, or other raw protein sources. Greens and several types of vegetables can be high in calcium, silica, and other bone & joint supporting vitamins and minerals - that takes care of any worries about you developing osteoporosis or requiring frequent bone scans. If you are worried about any specific nutritional deficiency, you might want to research forums for "foods that help ____" or Google things like "vegan sources of calcium" to find tables of foods high in specific nutrients.

If you ever need any help or advice, please feel free to message me. I wish you the best of luck and I really hope you don't have anymore panic attacks from this situation. Just understand that the dietician isn't well informed on the subject and she probably feels somewhat defensive because she thinks it's going to harm you. She might not want to hear any views that conflict with the ones she's educated in, so if you feel that your relationship with her as your dietary coach isn't working, I'd advise you to seek help from a new one by scouring your yellow pages or searching online for one in your area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2009 05:56PM by laces.

Becoming Vegan is a good book to read about nutrition, since obviously many people have no clue and just see TV commercials, thinking that those advertisements are an accurate portrayal of nutritional sources.

My plan is to become a raw food vegan. But first I must find out how to do it first. My first attempt to become raw failed. And I went back to gluten free cooked foods. This is my second attempt. With you guys I think I can succeed

I think it's better to eat vegan cooked foods than animal foods, esp. if they are steamed/cooked without fat. Fish will never be without fat and cholesterol. Of course, many people want to keep this a peaceful board without much dialogue re: eating/killing animals, so that's all I'll say.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's better to eat vegan cooked foods than
> animal foods, esp. if they are steamed/cooked
> without fat. Fish will never be without fat and
> cholesterol. Of course, many people want to keep
> this a peaceful board without much dialogue re:
> eating/killing animals, so that's all I'll say.


Thats interesting I would have thought fish would have had no cholesterol. Thanks for you info.

Only animal products have cholesterol.

Fish also has lots of environmental toxins in it. Why fish? What is wrong with nuts, seeds, beans, grains that are complete proteins? Or coconut oil for the fat?

dhsredhead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fish also has lots of environmental toxins in it.
> Why fish? What is wrong with nuts, seeds, beans,
> grains that are complete proteins? Or coconut oil
> for the fat?


Yes coconut oil is a very good idea. Do you have any recipies.

Coconut oil can be put in salad dressings, or just drink a tablespoon or two straight from the jar.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just drink a tablespoon or two straight from the jar.

The first time I bought coconut oil I did this!

I can't imagine there being another oil on earth that tastes so good!

Wild fish on the east and west coast are loaded with chems outlawed 30 years ago.
All the chemical toxins that have washed to the sea off the land mass are found
in most coastal fish, one water it seems! feeling thinking animals and fish-
ever make eye contact with a dorodo? if you did you would never eat a fish again Id bet.
Lapaz rhb