I've got a stubborn case of it going on a year thinking at one time it could be trench-foot because it acts up in the winter and causes painful swelling of my little toes and soreness all the way around to my heels. The raw skin between my littlest toes looks like athlete's foot though.

Are you asking for advice, dear? If so, tea tree oil footbaths or white vinegar footbaths or Miracle Minerals footbaths--basically[har-har]alkalizing footbaths. Here's an interesting take from Arnold's Way:

[www.youtube.com]

There's a lot of chatter before she mentions her toenail fungus problem and how she's treating it. It could be a solution for your similar problem. Good luck : )

Thanks a lot. I'll go the footbath route.

The above video of a person with toenail fungus describes a wholistic approach of excercise, wearing flipflops and change of diet from gourmet raw "to the max" to strict fruits and greens and it seems to be working. It must be nice to be able to get out of constrictive shoes.

Walt Stoll's website suggests using an acidic solution like distilled vinegar for toenail fungus twice a day without missing a dose until the toenail looks healthy plus one month to make sure it's gone, which could be a seven month course of treatment.

"Fungus Infections of the Feet
"This totally preventable condition is also easily treated without expense.

"First, you must understand that there is NOTHING, prescription or non-prescription, that KILLS any topical fungus (nails, skin, vagina, mouth, etc.). All any thing does is to inhibit growth of the fungus in tissue that was grown THAT DAY during the treatment. The growing cells must incorporate some of whatever is being applied, right into the cell, so THAT CELL will no longer be susceptible to the fungus. THEN the natural shedding of superficial tissues will grow the already infected tissue right off the body.

"If even one application is missed (even when griseofulvin is being taken internally) any tissue that grew that day will be susceptible and the treatment might have to start all over. It takes about 4 weeks to replace your skin--therefore, if you stop treatment of any skin fungus before 6 weeks, the problem may recur. It takes at least 6 months to grow a new toenail. Therefore, if the treatment is stopped less than a month after the nail looks NORMAL, the problem will probably recur.

"Fungi cannot stand an acid environment. The normal colon contents are very acid which is what protects us normally from having Candida Related Syndrome.

"If an individual with onychomycosis (toenail fungus) will fill a dropper bottle with the cheapest distilled vinegar from the grocery store (do not use good vinegar that has not been distilled) and put 2 drops of the vinegar at the growing base of the affected nail every night and morning, within a few months, normal nail will begin to show at the base of the nail.

"Remember, the normal nail will have to grow the infected nail off the body. If the treatment is missed, for even one dose, the nail that grew that day may not be resistant to the fungus and the fungus can jump from the infected nail that is still present into the healthy (but not resistant) nail. If that happens, infected nail will be seen at the base in a few months (when it has grown out enough to be seen) and the treatment will have to be continued until THAT infected nail tissue is grown off the body. In essence, the treatment time would have to be started anew.

"I have yet to see this treatment fail, over dozens of cases. I have just seen it work again with my wife. She is amazed since she had been treating hers for 20 years without success. She plans to take her normal toes to her former husband (who has been treating his for 40 years without success) and see if he wants to get rid of his fungus too. This is not to say that Tea Tree Oil, etc. would not work the same. So long as one knows the patho-physiology of the process, they can decide what to use. Vinegar is cheaper than anything else and always works."

[askwaltstollmd.com]

loeve,

That article was very interesting; thanks for posting. It is puzzling that I was always taught that pahtogenic fungi have an acid-dependent physiology, and have always treated it[successfully]thusly, whereas this article seems to be arguing the contrary. Yes, interesting, indeed. I shall hie me to the Stoll website directly.

"It is puzzling that I was always taught that pathogenic fungi have an acid-dependent physiology"

You're right Tamukha, fungi like a slightly acidic environment and so our skin suits it. It sounds like fungus can be discouraged by going outside it's pH comfort range in either direction so according to the logarithmic pH scale distilled vinegar (pH 2.4) is 1,000 times more acidic than human skin (pH 5.4 +/-) and so according to Dr. Stoll a little painted on the toenails morning and night faithfully over a long time will work.

For athlete's foot I'm thinking of going with a 3% sea salt solution foot bath treatment which is both pH basic and too salty for the fungus, I'm hoping, and to keep this up twice daily for 6 weeks.

I wonder if an Epsom salts foot bath would also work, as it could be a twofer: drawing out nasty things from within while treating the topical problem without? Will the sea salt solution not be drying? I think one of the main problems with treating a foot fungal infection is the need, especially in winter, to keep feet hydrated. It's tough to apply chemical warfare to the lil' buggers without subsequently reaching for something emollient to soothe the feets, thereby turning their surface evironment back into a fungus-friendly one. [sigh]

I suppose epsom salts would also work. The thing about 3% sea salt solution is it's the same concentration as natural sea water which is also known for its healing properties. It doesn't dry my skin nor make it moist. I read to soak once a day for 15 minutes using 2 to 4 tsp salt per pint of warm water. Hmmm, maybe I'll add some epsom salts...

The 3% sea-salt water foot baths are making a big difference. I can see the whole cuticle of my little toe now that it's not so swollen, and just started using distilled white vinegar on my toe nails as well just in case, though the nails look good except for a few ridges in my big toe nail old growth. Increasing my protein from 6 to 10% of my calories a couple months ago may have helped because the new growth looks normal.

I've been soaking then sticking pens between my toes to help them dry, the toes so jammed together from decades of constrictive footware.

Well, off to get some seawater which is about 3.5% salts in these parts, and should make for an interesting experiment in foot soaking.

Thanks for the responses.

That's great, loeve! It's such a difficult thing to overcome, I trust that with your current results, you will.

This saltwater soak approach is working great, the athlete's foot resolving nicely. Now I 'get' mineral baths and products like Dead Sea salt. The fungus that causes athlete's foot can't tolerate the salinity yet the skin stays happy.



--the Dead Sea, salinity 33.7%!

[i.ehow.com]

loeve,

It's interesting that the solution(hardy-har-har) to a problem that plagues so many people as to have become a special category of debility is so very simple. I am wondering if this therapy can be applied to other skin disorders, as you say the fungus can't tolerate the salinity but the skin can. I know someone with psoriasis . . . Where do you get your Dead Sea salt? I have heard Ahava is the best one.

Glad you're on the mend : )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2009 01:34PM by Tamukha.

Thanks, the thing about athlete's foot and toenail fungus is that they have a known cause, usually the fungus tinea pedis along with certain conditions for its growth. The reason why the home remedy of foot soaking using salts may work can be somewhat explained by googling sodium tolerance of the fungus, tinea pedis--

"Department de Patologia i Producció Animals (Unitat de Microbiologia), Universitat Autònoma de Barcelona, 08193 Bellaterra, Barcelona, España

"Received: 23 November 1992 Accepted: 13 September 1993

"Abstract The ability of strains of genus Epidermophyton to grow at different concentrations of NaCl (ranged from 0 to 10%) was studied. A reduction in the diameter of colonies was observed as the concentration of NaCl increased. A nearly complete absence of macroconidia were shown even at the lowest concentration assayed." [www.springerlink.com]

-Apparently sodium strips away the ability for this particular fungus to thrive, at least based on this scant research. The fungus grows in the outermost layer of the epidermis living on dead skin cells/nails relying on external moisture so it's relatively easy to get at compared to a skin ailment that may involve all three skin layers...

The salt I use is in the form of natural seawater collected from the surf on a freezing winter day getting my boots swamped in the process, ha-ha, though I wish it came from the Dead Sea. I read some fungi can live in 20% salinity but there it's 33%, truely a dead sea in a very cool way. To get that kind of salinity I'd have to add 10 gallons of salt to my bath water!

Sorry, I'm not familiar with psoriasis other than its general appearance and that it's another tough one for many people. If the skin is irritated a saltwater soak might be just the thing though...

Oh, again I've been treating athlete's foot between the webs of my toes and around the edges of my feet ('moccasin' type) both maybe caused by T. rubrum, a fungus in the class known as dermatophytes. They have questionable salt tolerance--

"...Anthropophilic dermatophytes in general have lower salt tolerance than do zoophilic and geophilic species, perhaps reflecting a lack of adaptation for growth on desiccated substrates (125)."

[cmr.asm.org] page 250.

-which is saying fungi that grow on humans in general have a lower salt tolerance than do fungi that grow on other animals or in the earth, purhaps because humans tend to keep themselves clean and dry in this day and age.

By the way, plain salt (NaCl) disolved in water may work slightly better than sea salt solutions or seawater going by rates of growth of fungi cultures in NaCl solution versus seawater.

After 10 days of foot soaking I've still got tenderness on my left heel where the skin is thick but it's improved.

I should think that a regular salt solution would be too astringent, but it's an intriguing suggestion that it might be adequate, lacking sea water. I have been reading up on actual Dead Sea salts from Israel and I might buy some just to try out on people that have topical problems(how mad scientist of me). It seems to be a panacea, so dermatophyte or no, it could help to at least restore the pH of the epidermis, which I think may be the reason so many Americans have skin problems--over cleansing. I think my fifth grade science fair project was on dermatophytes, now that I think of it. Or some classmate's was. Hmmmmm . . . .

I am curious, as you seem to spend a lot of time in the ocean harvesting seaweed and whatnot, whether you've ascertained the origin of your infection?

I'd very much like to know what they say about Dead Sea salts and just might look around myself.

Am jealous of your science fair project...

The origin of my athlete's foot I've suspected was when I changed my personal hygiene routine about a year ago and stopped being so meticulous about cleaning between my toes and changing my socks everyday, thinking they don't look or smell dirty so maybe less care is needed. That was a big mistake.

Is anyone trying to post and getting the reply "Phorum Database Error"?

Anyway, I've been looking into Dead Sea salts and noticing the very high concentration of magnesium, an antiseptic, which is common to Epsom salts and to a much much lesser extent in ordinary sea water and sea salt...

Edit: Ah, well good it posted! Now the following is what I was going to post originally but got an Error message instead--

Tamukha,
Regarding the Dead Sea, one thing that pops out is the high concentration of magnesium which is also common to Epsom salts and is an antiseptic: Antiseptic, agent that kills or inhibits the growth of microorganisms on the external surfaces of the body.

Dead sea composition (g/kg)

Cl? (181.4)
Mg2+ (35.2)
Na+ (32.5)
Ca2+ (14.1)
K+ (6.2)
Br? (4.2)
SO42? (0.4)
HCO3? (0.2)

(The total salinity was 276 g/kg. These results show that w/w% composition of the salt, as anhydrous chlorides, was calcium chloride (CaCl2) 14.4%, potassium chloride (KCl) 4.4%, magnesium chloride (MgCl2) 50.8% and sodium chloride (common salt, NaCl) 30.4%. In comparison, the salt in the water of most oceans and seas is approximately 97% sodium chloride. The concentration of sulfate ions (SO42?) is very low, and the concentration of bromide ions (Br?) is the highest of all waters on Earth. Stubborn cases of psoriasis that seem to resist most therapies seem to yield to the combination of sea, air and sun along the Dead Sea. The sea itself is abundant in minerals acclaimed to have therapeutic value.)

[en.wikipedia.org]

Regular sea water has 0.13% magnesium by mass which might add to its therapeutic value, but Epsom and Dead Sea salts seem to have much much more.

I'm still holding to my sodium theory but now looking at the magnesium as well.

How about the Dead Sea chloride concentration? Wow, that's a lot! Interesting.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2010 04:36PM by loeve.

"magnesium, an antiseptic"

Ah, actually Magnesium Chloride is an antiseptic. Magnesium is simply an essential mineral.

I'm still facinated by how much chloride (Cl-) and magnesium (Mg2+) there is in the Dead Sea.

Magnesium Chloride (i.e. Dead Sea Salts) versus Epsom salt--

"Magnesium Chloride Vs Magnesium Sulfate-- Magnesium chloride is a special form of magnesium that is natural to the sea as is magnesium sulfate, otherwise known as Epsom Salt. Both forms are used in emergency rooms to save lives but it is known that sulfate is more toxic and in transdermal application it’s less absorbable and retainable in the body then magnesium chloride is. The best form of magnesium supplementation obviously would be the most natural and that would be found where life began, in the sea. Magnesium chloride, though highly bioavaliable when taken orally, is idea when applied transdermally, either directly to the skin or when used in baths as Epsom Salts are traditionally used. The difference is remarkable between the two forms and is almost instantly noticeable. Magnesium chloride is easily assimilated and metabolized in the human body. Epsom salts are used by parents of children with autism because of the sulfate, which they are sometimes deficient in; sulfate is also crucial to the body and is wasted in the urine of autistic children. Magnesium sulfate, commonly known as Epsom salts, is rapidly excreted through the kidneys and therefore difficult to assimilate. This would explain in part why the effects from Epsom salt baths do not last long and why you need more magnesium sulfate in a bath than magnesium chloride to get similar results." [www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com]

Regarding Dead Sea salts and psoriasis--

Pharmacology. 1987;35(6):339-47.

Effect of Dead-Sea brine and its main salts on cell growth in culture.
Shani J, Sharon R, Koren R, Even-Paz Z.

Department of Pharmacology, Hebrew University School of Pharmacy, Jerusalem, Israel.

Diluted Dead-Sea brine and solutions of certain of its salts (chlorides and bromides of Na, K and Mg) were found to reversibly inhibit cell proliferation in culture. Bromides were more powerful as inhibitors than their chloride counterparts, and K salts were more effective than those of Na and Mg. KBr had the strongest inhibitory effect, which equalled that of diluted Dead-Sea brine at the same concentration. The favourable results of the Dead-Sea Spa treatment of psoriasis may thus be partly due to the penetration of minerals into the body, via the skin, with subsequent reinforcement of anti-proliferative mechanisms.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

..still can't figure out if Dead Sea salts work more by providing essential minerals, as an antiseptic or both. Hmmm, now bromides are in the mix. What a puzzle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 01:35PM by loeve.

loeve,

Probably a combination of both. The minerals themselves have antiseptic properties, so perhaps it's that some reaction occurs affecting the pH level of the epidermis that induces self-healing? Also, remember it's the Dead Sea. Dead. Not the Partly Sort-of Life-supporting Sea. Perhaps science is overthinking this? In any case, I am definitely ordering some Dead Sea salt. Shan't be ingesting it, however, no matter how much less toxic and more effective mag chloride compared to mag sulfate. A person could get really twisted round : )

'Shan't be ingesting it"

Agreed, for God sakes don't anyone drink Dead Sea water.

Dead sea composition (g/kg)

Cl- (181.4)
Mg2+ (35.2)
Na+ (32.5)
Ca2+ (14.1)
K+ (6.2)
Br- (4.2)
SO42- (0.4)
HCO3- (0.2)

At the beginning of the thread I mentioned Trench Foot because I've had occasional sore inflamed toes in the past year and originally followed a foot soak therapy to treat that. This year the symptoms re-appeared with obvious athlete'e foot. There's no reason why I can't have more than one foot ailment at the same time so I googled "trench foot UK', the UK because they are the experts after experiences in WWII. The BBC has an article on current cases at a recent festival in Glastonbury, UK--

"More recently, doctors tend to see the condition in builders, security guards, hikers, extreme sports enthusiasts and festival goers."

"At the festival, the team of podiatrists treat the condition with a potassium permanganate footbath, which draws fluid out of the affected area. Then they apply an anti-bacterial and anti-fungal dressing."

[news.bbc.co.uk]

..a common thread here being the usefulness of foot-soaks or baths, as the case may be, to treat athlete's foot, psoriasis and trench foot.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 07:05PM by loeve.

Those English music festivals get filthy : ) Potassium permanganate certainly sounds like 1915-era medicine. Where would I get that even? A feed store? Hmmm . . . have to check it out.

I was just thinking how this thread could be mistaken by some overimaginative NSA hiree as a chemical weapons manufacturing discussion: "Trench Foot, huh? I bet that's code language . . . "

"Potassium permanganate certainly sounds like 1915-era medicine."

Well, the abbreviation for Potassium is K, an element in Dead Sea water noted in the PubMed article above as effective in treating psoriasis.

"As an oxidant, potassium permanganate can act as a disinfectant. For example, dilute solutions are used to treat canker sores (ulcers), disinfectant for the hands and treatment for mild pompholyx, dermatitis,[4][5] and fungal infections of the hands or feet.[6] Potassium permanganate, obtainable at pool supply stores, is used in rural areas to remove iron and hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) from well and waste water. Historically it was used to disinfect drinking water.[7]" wikipedia

go figure

CNN did a nice piece on Dead Sea salt therapy concluding it's a source of ancient healing going back thousands of years. If anyone is interested please click and scroll down...

[www.cleopatraschoice.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 09:28PM by loeve.

Update:
After 3 weeks of twice daily sea salt water foot soaks averaging 3.3% salinity I'm happy to say my athlete's foot has resolved and my trench foot symptoms improved. Am going to keep up the soaks for a while to make sure and am going to start using a salinity of around 7% sea salt as an experiment and purhaps for maintenance in the future.

Thanks again for the responses

By the way, lately I'm able to read the forum but unable to post, getting an "unregistered user" message. If I fail to respond don't take it personal

Good news, loeve! I bet this thread will come in handy for users in the future. All About Salts, tee-hee : ) Hope the computer gremlins go away soon!

salts are cool

athletes foot is a candida symptom

cut down on sugars & everything high glycemic

Rainbow Green Live Food Cuisine by Gabriel Cousens

Thanks, jeni, I don't think I have candida or eat many sugary and high glycemic foods but do like Gabriel Cousens and the ideas. My athlete's foot was confined to the outermost layer of dead skin and would more likely fall into the category of fungus called "ringworm", in my opinion. It's gone now, but I will try to cultivate my Inner Terraine more along the Rainbow Green lines.

I treat fungal infections from the inside out. I make the body a hostile environment to fungus by using supplements that have an astringent, antibacterial, or antifungal properties.

I use grapefruit seed extract, yarrow, goldenseal, tea tree, and oregon grape root. I cycle them in different combinations until I get the results I'm after. I use the same approach for infections. Its always worked for me as long as I keep treating the condition for at least 4 days *after* the symptoms are gone.

As a side note...

The first time I went raw, I had a giant wart colony growing on my foot when I started. Five days into all raw, I went to scrub the bottoms of my feet, and the warts had COMPLETELY DISSAPPEARED. All of them! Five days! Roots the size of alfalfa sprouts, gone!

This winter, I fell off the produce-cart. I was getting a tiny little wart on my palm. 3 days at 85% raw, wart was history. Weird, eh.

-KP