Jk, first I want to start out by saying that I still feel My FEELINGS were valid, BUT that I think you are right, I probably misinterpreted you're meanings in many things, and that I am very sorry for if so, I think my issue with it all is I have been living a lie, open with everyone about every part of myself except the things I have the biggest issues with, and I think this may possibly have skewed my view of what some people have said (not just you) to me on here, and because of this skewed view, I over reacted to what I felt where attacks on me, but at least the first things I believed to be, seem to most likely not have been intended that way at all...

I am transgender, and eating 100% vegan seems to be killing me, I have been afraid of telling anyone about this on here out of fear of being judged... I believe the majority of people can be healthier on a vegan, or even better a raw vegan diet, but my particular and rare genetic health problems ive talked about be4 seem to be making 100% vegan dangerous for me, and I genuinely wish this wasn't the case. (those of you who are aware of and knowledgeable about my condition, feel free to debate with those who will probably post on here griping about what ive said, I do not have the energy to do it...not in a way that probably wont get me banned...)

As far as my fear about coming out as transgender goes, I believe that is about self explanatory as it gets... but I am willing to openly discuss my feelings on this if any of you feel like you want to discuss it, whether as to better understand, or just out of curiosity... its something I have to face If I am going to ever get over these feelings of shame and self hatred, but keep in mind I am super sensitive about this right now, especially since ive been receiving some anonymous hate mail from somebody that has somehow found out, and I have only talked to my closest friends about this, and then not even all of them, the ones whoms reactions Ive been unsure of, ive been to afraid to tell...

My feelings are on overdrive right now, with everything happening in japan, my childhood best friend being the only california casualty ive heard of so far, only having heard back from one friend that lives in japan so far, the 5th anniversary of my girlfriends suicide being at just after 4 am on the morning of the 15th, and the first anniversary of another friends murder on the 21st, then realizing im still just a total piece of @#$%& dumb @#$%& allowing the people I love to take advantage of and use me, and I just never see it till its to late and the damage is already done... I am still going to take a break from the forum shortly here, because I love the people here, and I dont want to take all of this internal turmoil out on all of you...

JK, Ive really looked up to you for awhile, and I guess my interpretations to some of the things you have said are because of how they touch upon some of my certain issues (Unknown to you, so its not your fault, thats entirely mine...) and it just increases my insecurities on the matter feeling like somebody I really look up to would probably never accept the real me, possibly even hate me, if they knew... to be completely open here, I think part of it is cause you are like a nicer version of my father, and frankly, best case scenario, he would disown me, I would not be surprised if he killed me or his self if I told him... and because of your similarities I guess some of my fears from that bled over to my view of you, and that I sincerely apologize for, because you are not him... and You have always been a good friend to me, even if my own issues made it difficult for me to see it at times... it seemed more patronizing lately than anything else, and that could easily have just been my insecurities skewing my view of your words...

Even our discussions of other people, I can see how my perceptions could have misinterpreted how you meant the things you said... added a more negative connotation to your words when you really just wanted somebody to talk to and had no ill intent towards anyone... and for the record, for anyone out there who has shared anything secret with JK, he has never discussed anything with me that seemed of a personal nature, only stuff going on in the forum directly, I apologize the way I stated this be4 left room up to it being interpreted as him having disclosed any secrets or anything, we only ever discussed stuff that was going on in the open forum...

Last but not least, none of this excuses my taking out my insecurities and fear on you, I know no apology will ever make up for that, or for the trust you had in me that you have understandably lost by this point... I am deeply sorry to you JK, and to everyone in this forum, for letting my personal issues bleed over into here... I will stick around for a day or two probably to answer questions, then I am going to take a brake until ive dealt with enough of my issues to where I can become generally stable again.

An alteration from one of my favorite books to make it more vegan friendly... "So long, and thanks for all the figs!"

I think I posted this in the wrong forum...lol...oh well...im gonna go get some sleep!

Dont feel ashamed for coming forward curator its very brave and its good to get things off your chest. Your personal life is nothing to do with anyone else except yourself as long as its not hurting anyone else so live the way you want too.

As far as the 100% vegan thing goes for some it just isn't possible and many factors decipher that, i don't care what anyone says, i know you've tried the high fruit/80/10/10 style and been getting worse on it. The sad fact is that there is no one diet for all and i can see why you feel ashamed coming forward as some end up calling you out as anorexic or stupid fat slob because you cant make it work.

Health is one if not the most important aspects of life and if 100% vegan isn't working for you then its time to re valuate and revert back abit as nothing is worth having permanent health issues over and making yourself unwell.

Nothing wrong with living a high plant based diet, hope you feel better soon anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 12:58PM by powerlifer.

I ACCEPT YOU JUST THE WAY YOU ARE!!! <3 And anybody that says "BOO" about it is due for a smack down, let me tell you. Take fair warning here people, touch this issue with less than gentle hands and you'll shortly have a fearsome dragon mama breathing down your neck.

Curator, you are nothing less than perfect as you are, G_d created, lovable and loved. The issues people take with things are entirely their own and reflect an internal muddiness that prevents them from seeing the light in every situation. That has nothing to do with you, just feel compassion for those who are mired in ugly judgement. It hurts them far more than it will ever hurt you.

As Chris says, health is a personal journey and there are many paths to one destination. You have to figure out what works best for you and dogma ain't gonna get you there friend. You'll figure out the real answer by keeping an open mind.

Blessings.

Amen to Coco's words. Curator, we love you exactly as you are!-- you are awesome, and your opinions about what works for you nutritionally are totally valid. Look at me: I'm not vegan anymore. I can't talk about it much here, but I had to make changes in order to stay optimally healthy. You're in good company.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Wow. I don't want to run my mouth here but only state that I am proud of you, Curator. It must have been very difficult to open up about this and although I respect your privacy, I would love to read about your experiences being transgendered if you choose to share them. Take care.

*huggles the ever lovin stuffing out of everybody* thanks every one... it feels awesome to see the love and support here... so opposite of what my fears led me to expect, so beautiful its making me cry... after all the hate ive been blasted with over the last few days or so (not on here, but some people I think I know of in real life who some how found out and have been using anonymous email accounts to send some really cruel stuff to me...) its like a breath of fresh air, like an elephant has been sitting on my chest and you 5 mice just sent it running scared...lol... (I say 5, because me and JK have been talking in emails, and he has forgiven me, and has been really awesome about it all...he is a really good guy, and im still so sorry that my own insecurities and other issues caused me to misjudge him and his intentions...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 11:56PM by Curator.

Yep, no prob., it all cool.

An excerpt from some of what ive talked about with JK, just to keep me from having to write it all out again, and a few alterations to further clarify somethings that upon re-reading I realized wasnt very clear in how I worded it...

As far as the specifics of what transgender means (for me), even im not entirely sure, I know the definitions, but im not sure entirely what it means for ME yet... I have not received the surgery, nor do I plan to, I do not dress as a woman, nor do I plan to... I know neither of these would heal what is going on inside of me, and may even make it worse as my body is extremely masculine in form, I would never be able to pass, nor even look slightly close, I do not feel it would make me feel more like a woman (the story I related in that one thread awhile ago was actually about another transgender person I met, not me personally, but the intensity of how much I related to her and hurt for her, was most likely do to my feelings...) I went to a psychiatrist when I was younger, and told her about this (eventually) and she stated that If she thought of all we had discussed as if I was a woman, it would look like I was a perfectly healthy adult female but with serious self esteem issues, biologically they also found I have a higher than usual amount of estrogen for a male, that peaks then drops once a month (as does the levels of my other hormones)... I dont know if this is the case for all transgenders... A lot of the ones ive talked to seem to be really really insane, and have been incredibly mean to me when ive suggested that I dont feel surgery would work for me, which has made it very difficult for me to find any support within that community...many are extremely judgmental about me feeling that surgery would not make me any happier with who I am, even though I have specifically stated to them that I am quite sure it is probably the best choice for some to help them be happy with who they are, that I just do not believe at this time that it is the best choice for me...

The best way I can describe it, is that I just dont feel right in my body, I dont have severe gender dysphoria like the majority of transgenders, I dont hate my body like most seem to, it just doesnt feel right to me... the closest thing I can relate it to in a way that others might understand is like phantom limb syndrome, where people who have lost their limbs sometimes feel like they are still there, then they check, and it isn't... except its my whole body, I feel a certain way, my brain perceives me a certain way, then the mirror and the way others perceive me, shows me my perception is off... I relate so much on every level with women, I find it near impossible to relate to men but I often try really hard to do so... I look so masculine in real life, yet almost everyone I knew thought I was gay or something because of how feminine I tend to act if im not careful to think about it and force myself to act masculine... (and for the record, no, I am not attracted to men...)

and no, I do not think this means I am really a woman, I am obviously biologically a male, But I cant help but wish I was otherwise... and no surgery or any kind of clothing will ever be able to fix that for me, even if it has helped others, I dont think it could ever help me... one of teh toughest things for me growing up to has been with all the female friends ive made, even those who understand that I am not like most men, I always get put in this box by everyone based on the genitals I was born with, either told I cant understand cause Im not a woman, or worse, being lumped in with other men/mistrust me just because I was born physically male, not because of any specific behaviors I have exhibited... (I can give examples if one wants them.) and I totally understand when people do this...it does not feel right, it hurts me, but I understand it, I would probably do the same if I was not who I am...

Any other questions, even ones that one would consider...rather intrusive are welcome, keep in mind though that im kind of sensitive at the moment, and if I over react remember it is not YOU I am over reacting to, its ME and my working on these these feelings, I had seriously repressed these feelings for a long time and have only recently rediscovered them and realized all the harm I had been doing to myself repressing them, I am just starting to finally sort through them all again, figuring out who I am not just as it pertains to these feelings, but everything combined... I know I have to be careful not to let one aspect of who I am define me, especially something so difficult... But I am hoping that through helping others to understand me, I can come to a better understanding of myself...

(and for those curious about one of my particular healthy problems that seems to be making a raw vegan lifestyle not very effective for my health by itself, but dont remember that old thread in which it came up, I have Familial hypobetalipoproteinemia - homozygous type or so the docs have said, the genetic tests on me they say show I have it, but i dunno...im hoping to be able to get more testing done someday to be sure...but its really dang expensive...)

Curator,

What all have said!! You have my conditional respect, support and friendship!! Just as before, esp if you can forgive me for the Billy Ray Cyrus. You clearly have community here!!

The concern you have about being completely vegan from a health perspective is perfectly understandable and it may be necessary to evaluate through testing and experience to see if you have an underlying deficiency or condition as yet undiagnosed. My decision to go vegan is more based on ethics and environment than strictly health. Many vegan RDs such as Ginny Messina have admonished vegans for thinking that the vegan diet was primarily for health than for ethics. [www.theveganrd.com] Take a look at what Ginny says and see if this makes any sense to you. You are in my thoughts!! Best to you.

Paul

Hey Curator yer all right by me just the way you are and whatever you want to be , you got my support 1010% always

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

*huggles you both* actually paul, its the ethical side that is making it more difficult for me to consider not being vegan anymore, I understand most people can live without animal products in their lives...and I desperately wish I was one of them, im currently trying to figure out what the minimum amount I need to be as healthy as is possible for some one like me... and ways to minimize its effect on our animal friends... I wont discuss what im thinking of trying on here though, since its against the rules... I dont think most vegans would have to much of an issue with it I think...but its definitely not optimal health wise, nor even under the best circumstances probably considered as ethical as having no animal products...

Curator, thanks so much for that clarification upstream! When I found out about this yesterday via your first post, I searched my memory for anything I might have said regarding transgenderism. I recall saying exactly what you said: that my concern was trying to change feelings by changing the outer form. I think that it is interesting that you are not finding support within that community: it seems in life that regardless of the situation, if a person doesn't go along with the crowd they are not validated. This may amuse you, but through online interactions with you, a male energy definitely came through to me. So when you mentioned this situation, I didn't know if biologically you were a woman living as a man or what (because of your real name). The funny thing is that I have been "accused" of being a man more than once online. There is a woman who says it to me all the time right now. I obviously have a lot more yang energy within me. When I was a kid I was a tomboy. My mom used to cut my hair really short and I got asked if I was a boy or girl! I have never had gender confusion because I don't identify with my body altogether. So perhaps that is the solution to this whole thing: don't worry about labelling the outer. If you are attracted to women, live as someone who loves women. What is a 'man?' Even women can enjoy sports, as a sterotypical 'manly' activity. My boyfriend hates them. He is very sensitive; more than I am. Maybe the confusion is more about trying to fit in with societal definitions. Some transgendered people are so tortured by the discrepancy between how they want to be seen as and what is before them that they choose surgery. You say that it is not so severe so you are wise to hold off until you are more sure that it will help. And about clothes? There are straight men who are simply cross-dressers but don't want to actually become a woman; I am sure you know all this. But sexuality and gender identity seem to be on a spectrum and in my opinion, we are souls first and bodies last. Take care...

hmmm, well I think I am a bit to tired to understand everything you typed up at the moment, I will revisit your post later after ive had some sleep, I will say though that im fairly certain my issue has nothing to do with societal definitions or trying to fit in with them... thats never been to much of a concern for me...

Interestingly enough, most people online are incredibly shocked to find im a male, most comment on how they sense a "feminine vibe" from me and are shocked to find out im biologically male,lol...

It can be difficult at times with how others attempt to define who I am based on genetic gender, but that also is quite separate from the base issue...even as a young child, (we are talking 8 and under here) I did not feel right in a male body... im not sure how to accurately relate this feeling...inaccurately maybe, but accurately I am not sure,lol... Imagine waking up one day dressed like a prostitute, and standing on a street corner, everyone treats you like you are a prostitute no matter where you go, you even seem to have a pimp, but you do not feel like you are a prostitute, the clothes dont feel right on you, the actions integral to being that feel wrong to you, yet you seem stuck in this version of you that does not feel right and does not make sense... This is not a very accurate analogy, but its the best I can think of right now that can come close to explaining how it feels like to be in a body that feels so alien...Its not about labeling the outer, its about the outer just not feeling right, about there being an inconsistency between brain and body that makes everything about that body feel wrong, I dont hate this body, It just doesn't fit...

Well, regarding societal definitions, you said you identify with women so much more and cannot relate very well to men. Okay, I could say the same thing regarding me with women. I have much more of a yang or 'male brain' going on. I am not as nurturing as many women are, I never had a desire to have children (although I do love them), and I just feel like I don't "fit" a mold. To me (maybe not you), this would include both social conditioning as well as the body. I guess my question to you is, if you feel so out of sync with your body, then what reservations do you have regarding doing the operation (besides cost, etc.)? I took from your remarks that you don't think that would necessarily "solve" the "problem." So if you are not convinced that physically changing into a woman would be make you feel better, I was thinking that perhaps it's not a change of body that is in order but a change in how you view the world. Like, who cares about the body! An anorexic can have distortions in viewing his/her body. I think the main issue is seeing the body as the Self. Maybe if you detach from identifying with your body, you don't have to worry about what you look like on the outside because you are only concerned about the inside.

Please don't take offense at what I have written. I am trying to give another perspective. You will get plenty of people encouraging you to get an operation, dress in a certain way, etc. But I detected in your comments that you have a sense that this will not be enough for you and I want you to know that I believe that there isn't one way to go or one way to be.

I believe I said I relate to women, not that I identify more, its similar I know, but there is an important distinction there, relating is deeper, more easily able to understand (most of the time) where they are coming from, there thought processes... where as men, I just cant seem to understand the majority of the time, their thought processes are a mystery to me, I cannot figure out what they are thinking or feeling in the innate way I seem to be able to do with most women...theres more to it than just this, but I dont think I can quite describe it, at least not on 4 hours of sleep...

The main reason why I feel the operation and dressing as a woman would do nothing for me, is because its not just the outer appearance that matters to me, the operation can not make me a biological female, even with hormone treatments my body will not be a womans, I would be a pale facsimile of a woman, look kinda like one, sound kinda like one, but not actually be one... id never be able to pass as one even with the best surgeon in the world, my frame is to physically masculine, so id never be treated as a woman or considered one by most... I personally believe for me that being a lil closer but not really BEING what i wish I could be, would be more difficult in some ways than staying as I am... since I dont have severe gender dysphoria like most transgenders, staying physically as i am is not nearly as terrifying of a concept for me as it seems to be for them... also it IS very expensive, minimum of 25k needed... oh and the hormones used for transition would increase my chances of breast and colon cancers if I remember right... then again I already do have an increased chance cause of the extra estrogen in my system... (apparently a lot of transgenders feel similarly, except they believe being closer is better than nothing...)

oh, and im not offended by what you have said, I understand it, its pretty much the same thing ive seen thousands of other (caring) people say to transgenders online, its usually people who are so grounded in their identity (a good thing) that they find it hard to understand what it feels like to be this way, as they have never experienced anything similar... I envy that clear feeling of Identity...hmmm.

I love this guy who posts here, Curator: he's scary smart and passionate and helpful and kind and good natured and principled. I think maybe he sometimes overthinks stuff(I do too) and that his life would be easier if he just was, instead of struggling to attach all kinds of definitions to himself, which are just words, after all and do not describe a person to himself. You are what you are, what you authentically feel and how you behave based on that, and that's as one should be. And when someone cares for you, they take all that you are and all that you may be, in their entirety and without misgivings.

And I do



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 01:20PM by Tamukha.

*huggles you* this person Curator...really loves his friends, the ones on here, and in other parts of his life, who have become more of a family than his real one <3<3<3

I have no idea what this is about, but keep on truckin', Curator. I'm sorry that your situation seems to be the source of grief for you, but you've certainly earned my respect and I don't think you need to change for anyone, even yourself.

We all have something about us that makes us question ourselves. We're all fighting internal battles. And no matter how together we seem from the outside, we're all wishing there was something about ourselves or our situations that was different.

You have a kind nature, a talkative spirit, an innate curiosity, and an infectious optimism that make you a joy to have on these boards. I hope you get as much of them and us as we get from you.

awwwwwm thankyou veg...btw, now, as always, your name on here gives me the hilarious mental picture of a person hunting down veggies...hehehehe <3