My in-laws (in their mid 60's) just received an "excellent bill of health" from their doctor after a recent physical/blood work/etc.

Father-in-law is at least 100-125 lb. overweight, and Mother-in-law is probably 60-80 lbs. overweight. Absolutely NO physical activity, typical couch potatoes who stuff their faces all day & evening while watching endless hours of mindless drivel on the tube.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. Guess I'm not a good "salesman", lol. I'm just tired of it all. I don't expect the whole world to go raw, or even vegan for that matter, but the manner in which the medical establishment operates is a crime to put it mildly, by promoting such an unhealthy lifestyle.

I remember years ago when my mum was first diagnosed with Diabetes. They sent her home with a list of foods that were good for her to eat, which, if you can believe it, included hot dogs, lunch meat and bacon! Go Atkins!



I am a very active individual with a Bf of close to 8% at present, so I guess if they are in excellent health I must be freaking superman & will live to age 250!

It angers me, too, when I'm directly affected. Like years ago, when my daughter was little, I took her to a holistic type doctor to see if she should be tested for Lyme Disease. I was informed, but he was dismissive of my knowledge and concerns. A couple months ago when I went to an ear specialist about my vertigo situation. I was telling her the story of how it struck me about 30 seconds after I took these big whiffs of a wooden cabinet made in China that was saturated with formaldehyde, and then other episodes of vertigo after smelling formaldehyde in a rug pad and other stuff, and she was making faces while I was telling the story and then she said - that has nothing to do with it; it's just a co-incidence. Like she has no conception of how chemicals can affect the brain and she doesn't even want to hear about it.

They want us to be sheeple and fall in line with them; as if we know nothing and if we think we know anything, we're wrong and they're right. Even some of the holistic doctors have their own little thing they're into (maybe candida or Lyme or parasites), with their particular modalities and protocol, and they don't want any interference or ideas or criticism from their patients.

Quote

...and she was making faces while I was telling the story and then she said - that has nothing to do with it; it's just a co-incidence. Like she has no conception of how chemicals can affect the brain and she doesn't even want to hear about it.

They want us to be sheeple and fall in line with them;

That's really it, KidRaw. I see this type of behavior in all levels of service these days. There is a "disconnect" between the patient and Dr., home owner & service professional, etc.

I guess it all has to do with the dumbing down of the sheeple as Alex mentions a lot, i.e. fluoride in the water, vaccinations, everybody on at least 3-5 pres. meds & so forth.

As per my initial post; It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you are 100+ lbs. overweight, you can't possibly be healthy on the inside. But, people love to believe the lie....guess it makes them feel all warm & fuzzy inside if some guy in a white coat praises them and tells them what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2013 07:17PM by veganjuice.

The one that gets me is that they admit that they don't know the cause to about 90% of what they treat and then, they say, but it's NOT OUR FOOD!!! If they don't know the cause, then how in the hell do they know it's NOT OUR FOOD!!!

Boy, I'm a cynic, but what you all post challenges even my cynicism!

The problem with how "health" is assessed and how disease is diagnosed and treated is a matter of a lack of cogent standards of instruction. For example, my current doctor, KidRaw, would have agreed that the formeldahyde was the culprit in your vertigo, because, Duh! Yours didn't. Why? They clearly don't have the same knowledge of organic and inorganic chemistry, which should be consistent. That there is a lack of standards across the board doesn't go deep enough in explaining the problem, though. The real problem is that sensible, disinterested, curriculum-setting science doesn't exist anymore; everyone--researchers, hospitals, health institutes, insurance companies, drug companies, clinicians--has a self-serving agenda divorced from the purpose of medicine: to help the body heal itself.

Kaiser Permanente recently released a statement strongly urging the medical profession to advocate for a plant based diet to improve medical outcomes across demographics. It made front page news. The fact that it did shows how far afield from real, efficacious practices we are

sounds like my mother in law also. Its SCARY what doctors tell her! They advise her to avoid dates because of the sugar...meanwhile she eats pound cake, white flour banana bread etc...and uses artificial sweetners...huh? In theory she should avoid fresh bananas because of the sugar, but she does eat them regularly (thank god) because the doctor prescribed them. But dates are a better source of K.

The advice just doesn't make sense, and doesn't account for exactly how the person is going to take and use that information.

Older people will often fib about the "clean bill of health" because they don't give a fart anymore. They just want to eat their cakes, watch their TV, and die. They don't want to change and they don't want anyone pressuring them to do so. If they're really that overweight and sedentary, it's nearly impossible to believe that their numbers came back outside the danger zone. No doctor would risk a law-suit or forgo the opportunity to put a patient on pharmies when the results come back bad. They want them in the system. Remember?

IMO, what's really a crime is that people aren't smart enough to weed through the BS. They simply go along with what they're told by this one system. It's their fault if they get scammed into bad health. Good health is not rocket science. The info is out there and highly accessible.

Just curious: What sort of physical activity do you do at 8% Bf?

veganjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My in-laws (in their mid 60's) just received an
> "excellent bill of health" from their doctor after
> a recent physical/blood work/etc.
>
> Father-in-law is at least 100-125 lb. overweight,
> and Mother-in-law is probably 60-80 lbs.
> overweight. Absolutely NO physical activity,
> typical couch potatoes who stuff their faces all
> day & evening while watching endless hours of
> mindless drivel on the tube.
>
> Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. Guess I'm not
> a good "salesman", lol. I'm just tired of it all.
> I don't expect the whole world to go raw, or even
> vegan for that matter, but the manner in which the
> medical establishment operates is a crime to put
> it mildly, by promoting such an unhealthy
> lifestyle.
>
> I remember years ago when my mum was first
> diagnosed with Diabetes. They sent her home with a
> list of foods that were good for her to eat,
> which, if you can believe it, included hot dogs,
> lunch meat and bacon! Go Atkins!
>
> [yoursmiles.org]
>
> I am a very active individual with a Bf of close
> to 8% at present, so I guess if they are in
> excellent health I must be freaking superman &
> will live to age 250!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2013 11:48PM by HH.

"f they're really that overweight and sedentary, it's nearly impossible to believe that their numbers came back outside the danger zone."


Trust me, they are that overweight. My take on all this is that the medical est. has the "acceptable" numbers fudged to such a point that even obese people come back with good results.

Just like the government, corruption, outright lying abounds. They move the numbers scale far enough to one side or make it wide enough to catch a large number of people.

I have heard stories of elite athletes, people in superman shape that go in for bloodwork/other & the doctor is very concerned because they have elevated enzymes, or other organs show signs of being out of the "normal" range when in fact, these are the very folks who are in optimum heath.

It's kind of like "grading on a curve", when we were in school. The teacher would say - "Everyone did so bad on this test that we are going to grade on a curve so everyone passes".

Unbelievable. No wonder we are in so much trouble.

But why would they want to tell unhealthy people that they're healthy? Unhealthy people equal more business and more money.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But why would they want to tell unhealthy people
> that they're healthy? Unhealthy people equal more
> business and more money.

To further promote/accelerate their poor (pending) health conditions.

If people "think" they are healthy they will continue to eat the same garbage/live the same lifestyle & at some point get in really bad shape with something like diabetes that they can put on lifelong meds, and also ensure the "cascade effect" of several organs failing for the long term.

Oops, missed this, HH. "Just curious: What sort of physical activity do you do at 8% Bf?"

I've been a bodybuilder for years & actually used to carry more bodyfat, probably closer to high teens, maybe even 20 when I was a meat/dairy eater (UGH). When I went vegan, & then high raw, that was like the magic formula for me. Now I always have "cut abs", lol.

Aside from that, I've always been very active, biking, lots of walking, physical jobs around the house, etc. Also, cutting out many starch carbs & sugar works wonders for fat loss.

For some reason I get super dizzy when I lift on a 100% vegan diet. It's one thing that absolutely confounds me. I'll feel great when I'm lifting, but then when I put the weights down, I get a massive head rush. I don't know. Perhaps its something that's just peculiar to me. Anyway, sounds like you're in fantastic shape and the diet's really working for you. Great work.

veganjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oops, missed this, HH. "Just curious: What sort of
> physical activity do you do at 8% Bf?"
>
> I've been a bodybuilder for years & actually used
> to carry more bodyfat, probably closer to high
> teens, maybe even 20 when I was a meat/dairy eater
> (UGH). When I went vegan, & then high raw, that
> was like the magic formula for me. Now I always
> have "cut abs", lol.
>
> Aside from that, I've always been very active,
> biking, lots of walking, physical jobs around the
> house, etc. Also, cutting out many starch carbs &
> sugar works wonders for fat loss.

That's interesting - I've not heard of anyone getting dizzy while lifting on a 100% vegan diet. Are you certain you are breathing correctly? The only other thing that comes to mind is low blood sugar or low blood pressure.

I hang out on a couple of vegan bb boards & I've not seen this talked about either. It is something to ponder. Are you able to do heavy physical labor otherwise without any ill effects?

The dizziness tends to come up whenever I exert myself heavily on 100% vegan. It's at its worst with lifting though. If I run 6 miles as a 100% vegan I'll feel great during the run, but when I stop I get a massive head rush. I'm a farmer and the same would happen if I were 100% vegan right now. I think it's really weird too. When I was 100% vegan my blood pressure was usually 100 systolic or just above and 50-60 diastolic. As far as I know, that type of BP is often associated with serious athletes. I commonly felt dizzy upon rising from a sitting position. It is weird, and it's not an attempt to undermine 100% veganism as I'm often accused. It's truly what happened to me. I tried many approaches. I'd love to be 100% but have yet to find the answer. Robert Cheeke's diet seems a bit heavy on processed junk to me. As I recall, it even contained a lot of soy. This dizziness issue confounds me, especially since veganism helps me to feel so great otherwise.


veganjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's interesting - I've not heard of anyone
> getting dizzy while lifting on a 100% vegan diet.
> Are you certain you are breathing correctly? The
> only other thing that comes to mind is low blood
> sugar or low blood pressure.
>
> I hang out on a couple of vegan bb boards & I've
> not seen this talked about either. It is something
> to ponder. Are you able to do heavy physical labor
> otherwise without any ill effects?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2013 05:53PM by HH.

"Robert Cheeke's diet seems a bit heavy on processed junk to me"

Sure is, lol. And, he even admits that in his book. During his bb years his goal was to get "swole"at all costs, but remain vegan. In order to get a large amount of bulk/cals. conveniently and quickly, he pushed the processed/ cooked vegan diet.

Your BP numbers seem a bit on the low side to me, even for a serious athlete. Of course, there is a lot of variables to consider, age, weight, activity level, fitness history, etc.

And again, I visit breathing;

Some folks subconsciously hold their breath or breathe erratic when exerting w/o realizing. I've seen bb'ers doing it, esp. when benching & then they complain of dizziness, shortness of breath, light-headed after the exercise.

Thanks. I'll keep breathing in mind. When I was having these issues I was over 6 ft. tall and weighed 160-165 lbs., lean and muscular with very low body fat. My age range was 38-43. I could run a hilly 10K and barely break a sweat. Also had a serious yoga practice. I've never had issues with yoga, so maybe your breathing theory is correct. My diet at the time was high, high raw and 100% vegan. My primary source of cooked was white rice. Very low fat.

How much fat do you eat?

It sounds like you are/were? in incredible shape. I could not run a 10K w/o breaking a sweat, lol.

I've played w/ several nutrient levels over the years; at present, my ratio is 40/40/20 (C/P/F). Usually though, I follow a 60/20/20 regimen. I like to try different rations to see how my body responds.

I am about 80-85% raw. I use Garden of Life/Sun Warrior proteins for when I need quick meals on the go. I'll mix it into a big green smoothie. I shoot for 5-6 meals per day.

How about you? What are your ratios? What is your meal plan/frequency/workout status?

As an aside - I was around my in-laws the other day & I noticed that my father-in-law (66) "wobbles" a bit at times, or is unsteady on his feet, like a balance issue. I didn't mention it, there's no point.

veganjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like you are/were? in incredible shape.
> I could not run a 10K w/o breaking a sweat, lol.

*****Yes I'm in good shape. I farm, run, lift-weights, and do yoga.
>
> I've played w/ several nutrient levels over the
> years; at present, my ratio is 40/40/20 (C/P/F).
> Usually though, I follow a 60/20/20 regimen. I
> like to try different rations to see how my body
> responds.
>
> I am about 80-85% raw. I use Garden of Life/Sun
> Warrior proteins for when I need quick meals on
> the go. I'll mix it into a big green smoothie. I
> shoot for 5-6 meals per day.
>
> How about you? What are your ratios? What is your
> meal plan/frequency/workout status?

*****I'm 70-80% raw, closer to 80 right now because of the season. Last I checked my ratios I was 40/40/20. I started running again 2 months ago so my carb ratio is way up. I farm 3 (maybe 4)days a week, run 20-25 miles a week with extreme hill-work, and do a combo of lifting and/or yoga 4 days a week. My lifting routine only consumes about 20 minutes, but I find it to be very effective for my goals. Despite hitting 46 this summer my strength has steadily increased over the last two years since I became consistently serious about getting the workouts in. I've been at an advanced-intermediate yoga level for a while now. Currently my yoga workouts are more about maintaining my practice than advancing it. I also meditate nearly every day which might be the most important health tool I've got going right now.

>
> As an aside - I was around my in-laws the other
> day & I noticed that my father-in-law (66)
> "wobbles" a bit at times, or is unsteady on his
> feet, like a balance issue. I didn't mention it,
> there's no point.

66 is way too young to be wobbly. I like to think that by the time I turn 66, 66 will be considered young relative to how we currently perceive it. Sounds like their doctor has incredibly low health standards and is too accepting of aging as an inevitability instead of a manageable or perhaps someday preventable disease.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2013 05:14PM by HH.

And again "they" strike;

On another forum, there is a girl who weighs 350+ lbs. (her admission). She just had a physical last week & was presented with a "great bill of health, her numbers couldn't have looked any better...".

BP normal, all bloodwork normal...I notice she didn't mention anything about her "normal" weight for her height...but oh well.

These Drs. are total idiots, no question. I really can't believe they get away with it.