So, in other words, if you accept Kary Mullis's views, then you accept that viruses exist, and you accept PCR as an accurate diagnostic tool - a tool that earned Kary Mullis a Nobel Prize, which he accepted.

Ebola is a disease, and it's caused by a virus. Show me where Kary Mullis does not agree, or leave the poor guy out of the debate. He already gets plenty of heat for HIV/AIDS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 07:41AM by suncloud.

I do not agree with your interpretation or references, suncloud.

your ("doesn't apply" was expected) and my disagreement as well.

you understand that even if it exists in a body, that doesn't mean that it is causing disease, yes? and you ignore the other potential causes as well, as it is not convenient to your paradigm..

thanks for sharing. but alas these conversations generally don't enlighten or shift, people just continue to believe their preexisting views.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 07:42AM by fresh.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not agree with your interpretation or
> references, suncloud.
>
> your ("doesn't apply" was expected) and my
> disagreement as well.
>
> you understand that even if it exists in a body,
> that doesn't mean that it is causing disease, yes?
> and you ignore the other potential causes as
> well, as it is not convenient to your paradigm..

Well then, it's a pretty incredible coincidence that everyone diagnosed with Ebola gets sick. Everyone! Incredible coincidence. What are the odds? Over the top, unless Ebola had something to do with the illness.

I do however believe that some people can have the virus, not be diagnosed, and not get sick, because their immune systems are capable of fighting the virus off. Diet/health could very well be a factor. Also, genes. There are people who have tested positive for Ebola antibodies, though not the virus itself, and these people do not get sick. Antibodies are made by our own bodies when a piece of a bacterium or virus is detected. The piece is called an "antigen". Those antibodies can then identify the specific antigen they are produced to attack. Apart from our ability/inability to eliminate a dangerous pathogen through excretions, sometimes a person can produce antibodies quickly enough to kill the bacteria/virus before it multiplies enough to get us sick. When the antigen is introduced a second time around, by then we will have hopefully produced enough antigen-specific antibodies to prevent us from getting sick, whether we got sick the first time or not. That's why people don't have Ebola twice.

[en.ird.fr]

Again, once there is enough virus in the system to allow for an Ebola diagnosis, the person is already sick. Always.

And, Kary Mullis believes viruses do exist. There can be no argument there. His You-Tube discussion is posted at the end of page 15.

> thanks for sharing. but alas these conversations
> generally don't enlighten or shift, people just
> continue to believe their preexisting views.

It's not my intention to argue, but I will stand my ground and continue to post my understanding of the facts.

Thank you Fresh for expressing your views politely, as a brother.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 08:32AM by suncloud.

>Well then, it's a pretty incredible coincidence that everyone diagnosed with Ebola gets sick. Everyone! Incredible coincidence. What are the odds? Over the top, unless Ebola had something to do with the illness.

you cannot prove this statement logically or with evidence.




> That's why people don't have Ebola twice.

not sure how you can show that.


i am aware of antigens


>Again, once there is enough virus in the system to allow for an Ebola diagnosis, the person is already sick. Always

another impossible to prove statement.

>It's not my intention to argue, but I will stand my ground and continue to post my understanding of the facts.

you are overextending your alleged facts.

peace.

>fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>Suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Well then, it's a pretty incredible coincidence
> that everyone diagnosed with Ebola gets sick.
> Everyone! Incredible coincidence. What are the
> odds? Over the top, unless Ebola had something to
> do with the illness.
>
> you cannot prove this statement logically or with
> evidence.


There is not a single case - not one - where a person has had a confirmed Ebola diagnosis and the person did not get sick. Find one.


> > That's why people don't have Ebola twice.
>
> not sure how you can show that.

> i am aware of antigens

> >Again, once there is enough virus in the system
> to allow for an Ebola diagnosis, the person is
> already sick. Always
>
> another impossible to prove statement.
>
> >It's not my intention to argue, but I will stand
> my ground and continue to post my understanding of
> the facts.
>
> you are overextending your alleged facts.


With all due respect, these are not my facts, but I will decide when to extend them. Again, I will stand my ground and continue to post my understanding of the facts. As I please.

But I don't mind at all if you disagree.


>
> peace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 08:56AM by suncloud.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fifth doctor in Sierra Leone tests positive for
> Ebola. The other four have died...
>
> [www.capitalwired.com]
> ne-tested-positive-for-ebola/25310/

It seems Sierra Leone is a mess unfortunately.

<<<Kary Mullis does believe PCR is accurate for its intended use as a diagnostic tool, as evidenced by the fact that he did accept the Nobel Peace Prize for inventing it!!!!>>>

<<<if you accept Kary Mullis's views, then you accept that viruses exist>>>

Your Sense of Logic or LACK of is absolutely MIND BOGGLING!!!

In fact, it's FRIGHTENING!!!

If your IGNORANCE only affected you, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

But your IGNORANCE is what allows the Status Quo to get away with what it does and could actually affect all of us.

ALL OF US COULD BE FORCED VACCINATED because so many people think like you.

Since you are FORCED to be VACCINATED, perhaps that's why you would like the rest of us to be FORCED VACCINATED!!!

Does this mean that you also believe in Herd Immunity and is why you might want ALL OF US to be FORCED VACCINATED?

[www.relfe.com]
Vaccinations: Science or Fraud?
April 16, 2014
by user7219
Vaccination Myths
© by Alan Phillips

...

MYTH #4
“Vaccination is based on sound immunization theory and practice…”
…or is it?

...

Another component of immunization theory is “herd immunity,” which states that when enough people in a community are immunized, all are protected. As Myth #2 revealed, there are many documented instances showing just the opposite–fully vaccinated populations do contract diseases; with measles, this actually seems to be the direct result of high vaccination rates.[19] A Minnesota state epidemiologist concluded that the Hib vaccine increases the risk of illness when a study revealed that vaccinated children were five times more likely to contract meningitis than unvaccinated children.

...
[www.relfe.com]

Remember, VIRUSES are only SKID MARKS - they are NOT the CAUSE of DIS-EASE - they are the CONSEQUENCE of DIS-EASE...

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fifth doctor in Sierra Leone tests positive for
> > Ebola. The other four have died...
> >
> >
> [www.capitalwired.com]
>
> > ne-tested-positive-for-ebola/25310/
>
> It seems Sierra Leone is a mess unfortunately.

Last night the fifth Sierra Leone doctor died.

"The death of Dr. Godfrey George, medical superintendent of Kambia Government Hospital in northern Sierra Leone, was a blow to efforts to keep desperately needed health care workers safe in a country ravaged by the deadly virus.

Sierra Leone's health care system was already fragile before the Ebola epidemic because of past conflict and a lack of resources. The country had two doctors for every 100,000 people in 2010, compared to about 240 doctors for the same number of people in the United States, according to the World Health Organization."...


[abcnews.go.com]

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well then, it's a pretty incredible coincidence
> that everyone diagnosed with Ebola gets sick.
> Everyone! Incredible coincidence. What are the
> odds? Over the top, unless Ebola had something to
> do with the illness.


> Again, once there is enough virus in the system to
> allow for an Ebola diagnosis, the person is
> already sick. Always.
>

Correlation is not a proof of causation. If you were a scientist, even an amateur one, you would understand this. People who are diagnosed with ebola are already sick, this is why they went for a diagnosis. So for you to say a person diagnosed with ebola gets sick, this has no meaning, as they were already sick.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>Suncloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >Well then, it's a pretty incredible
> coincidence
> > that everyone diagnosed with Ebola gets sick.
> > Everyone! Incredible coincidence. What are the
> > odds? Over the top, unless Ebola had something
> to
> > do with the illness.
> >
> > you cannot prove this statement logically or
> with
> > evidence.
>
>
> There is not a single case - not one - where a
> person has had a confirmed Ebola diagnosis and the
> person did not get sick. Find one.
>

you are not understanding what i have said.

I have questioned the whole diagnosis issue, and provided facts to support it.

i have also suggested various other causes. the question is are they sick from a virus or from conditions.

you are presuming the diagnosis is accurate.

so with your presumption, of course you must believe what you believe.

if someone is sick and lives, then they will claim that it wasn't ebola, they will claim it was something else.

if someone is sick and dies, then they claim it was ebola.

if you will study the history of vaccinations, you will find the same distortion of facts regarding diagnosis and illness. have you done that?

have you studied the lies of the cdc regarding swine flu as i referenced?

have you taken into account all of the other disease vectors such as vaccines, pesticides, et,etc? i haven't seen you show that these disease vectors are not the true cause.

the only way you can claim to do that is to believe those saying that these people are diagnosed. but they are not. they merely see symptoms and pronounce --ebola. everyone is not tested.

from what i recall, you also believe that the flu is caused by a virus.
same with hiv.

neither of these is caused by what they claim, as can be shown by duesberg science (hiv) as well as the obvious facts regarding "flu" and it's true cause which is toxemia, as it does not occur on a proper diet. does not occur at all.

all the while, scientists supposedly KNOW how the influenza virus works mechanically to cause illness when the true cause is simply toxemia. no different from ebola - they map out the mechanism of how it supposedly causes damage to the cells, all the while ignoring all the other disease vectors.

humans have a built in war-like outside invader disease paradigm that comes from ignorance of cause. all true cause is ignored.


not my intention to insult you - by saying overextending you facts i meant that you were drawing conclusions without evidence or proof or not even possible to prove.

you believe facts that we both get from outside of our realm, and i don't have any reason to believe those statements.

acceptance of the facts that you posted certainly leads one to your conclusions, but i see no reason to accept those facts, based on the lack of credibility of the sources, and the motivations of those involved.

strange how all one has to do is fly to the US, get some fluids, and voila, cured. meanwhile, over in africa....

the mind is very powerful as well - we can actually convince ourselves of our impending death and hasten its demise. " i have ebola" - i will die. huge impact on outcome. as opposed to, exit from environment, proper care..

not sure what you're trying to say regarding PCR.

what mullis was saying was that pcr is not applicable to determine cause since it does not quantify amount of substance needed to cause symptom X.

and the existence of microorganism X does not mean that X caused disease Y.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> funny how the person who invented the pcr
> disagrees with you.
>
> [jonrappoport.wordpress.com]-
> ebola-test-let-the-tests-inventor-speak/

Fresh, Thank you for the following: "not my intention to insult you - by saying overextending your facts i meant that you were drawing conclusions without evidence or proof or not even possible to prove." Fresh, I do really appreciate this, and I also appreciate your civility throughout this conversation.

I originally meant only to respond to your post above, which was inaccurate. I have not said one thing about PCR - or about anything else - that Kary Mullis has disagreed with, and this includes the links to Kary Mullis provided by Jon Rappoport.

Kary Mullis accepted a Nobel Peace Prize for his invention of PCR, so he obviously believes it serves a purpose as a diagnostic tool. (PCR is only one diagnostic tool among many.) Also, Kary Mullis's quote cited by Jon Rappoport addresses HIV/AIDS - not Ebola.

I have never disputed anything about HIV/AIDS. Not once.

In addition, Kary Mullis does believe in germs, including viruses.

[www.ted.com]

Of course it's not possible to prove something over the internet that can only be proven in a lab and under real circumstances in the field! I only got into this conversation to try to explain something that Kary Mullis said. I probably went a little too far when I tried to also offer what I hoped would be taken as common sense - not proof.

Regarding "proof", the same is true regarding the Ebola hoax point of view. "Proof" of an Ebola "hoax" can also only be presented under real circumstances. I'm not saying everything Jon Rappoport writes is wrong. I'm only disputing the faulty evidence he presented regarding Kary Mullis in claiming that Ebola is a hoax.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not sure what you're trying to say regarding PCR.
>
> what mullis was saying was that pcr is not
> applicable to determine cause since it does not
> quantify amount of substance needed to cause
> symptom X.
>
> and the existence of microorganism X does not mean
> that X caused disease Y.

No, what Mullis was saying was that PCR is not applicable as a diagnostic tool to determine virus quantity. Quantity is especially important in the controversy over whether AIDS is caused by HIV, because the mainstream theory is that AIDS is reached when HIV has multiplied excessively.

Another phrase included in the quote referring to Kary Mullis's views (by John Lauritsen) was, "PCR is intended to identify substances qualitatively, but by its very nature is unsuited for estimating numbers".

"Quality" refers to reliability and validity. "Quantity" refers to numbers. Ebola is not diagnosed via quantitative PCR. And when Ebola is diagnosed, PCR is not the only diagnostic tool.

Kary Mullis has never made the same argument for Ebola that he has made for HIV/AIDS. Never. This is an extrapolation.

I am in no way disputing any of Kary Mullis's statements.

Well, no matter. Although I appreciate your conversation Fresh, there are those here who appear to have some very extreme issues with anyone who disagrees with them - to the point where they feel impelled to hurl insults and attempt to demean and intimidate. It's like the thought police. They pretend to be for freedom of thought, while they intimidate anyone who doesn't think the same way they think. I feel sorry that this is the case.

I'm not intimidated. And if those who are uneducated in science wish to challenge science - well then they have at least as much burden of proof as anyone else.

It was a good attempt to go for Kary Mullis, but Kary Mullis believes viruses are real. It was a fair attempt though, and that's the only reason I addressed it.

None of these website people are reporting from Africa. Why aren't they walking their talk? If they're so sure Ebola is a hoax, why aren't they where Ebola is, why aren't they collecting real evidence? Why aren't they interviewing people who have survived the disease, or people who are presently sick with it? Why aren't they interviewing the people who are treating it? Why aren't they taking blood tests or urine samples? Why don't they take the samples to a private lab? How can they dispute the basic science when they don't even know what the basic science is?

Yes, they have as much burden to present real evidence as anyone else.

But they don't. They just link up one fear-mongering conspiracy assumption with another. That's it. Not "proof". Not "evidence". Nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 09:00PM by suncloud.

What's with all this spam stuff on the forum?

Crazy, man!

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> suncloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Fifth doctor in Sierra Leone tests positive
> for
> > > Ebola. The other four have died...
> > >
> > >
> >
> [www.capitalwired.com]
>
> >
> > > ne-tested-positive-for-ebola/25310/
> >
> > It seems Sierra Leone is a mess unfortunately.
>
> Last night the fifth Sierra Leone doctor died.
>
> "The death of Dr. Godfrey George, medical
> superintendent of Kambia Government Hospital in
> northern Sierra Leone, was a blow to efforts to
> keep desperately needed health care workers safe
> in a country ravaged by the deadly virus.
>
> Sierra Leone's health care system was already
> fragile before the Ebola epidemic because of past
> conflict and a lack of resources. The country had
> two doctors for every 100,000 people in 2010,
> compared to about 240 doctors for the same number
> of people in the United States, according to the
> World Health Organization."...
>
>
> [abcnews.go.com]
> e-doctor-dies-ebola-26649996

So sad! Another hero gone. Sierra Leone is in very bad shape. Thanks for helping us keep up on what is going on SueZ. I think it's important.

More bad news:

'Post-Ebola Syndrome' Persists After Virus Is Cured, Doctor Says

[abcnews.go.com]

Good news:

A needle-free Ebola vaccine protects monkeys 100 percent of the time from the virus, even a year after they’ve been vaccinated, researchers reported Monday. (Well anyway, it might be good news to some people who would rather have the vaccine than the virus.)

[www.nbcnews.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 09:23PM by suncloud.

<<<Kary Mullis does believe PCR is accurate for its intended use as a diagnostic tool, as evidenced by the fact that he did accept the Nobel Peace Prize for inventing it!!!!>>>

<<<Kary Mullis accepted a Nobel Peace Prize for his invention of PCR, so he obviously believes it serves a purpose as a diagnostic tool.>>>

Once again, your Sense of Logic or LACK of is absolutely MIND BOGGLING!!!

Why would anyone falsify information for a Nobel Prize?

"All of the dear people who have answered are not aware, perhaps of Dr. Linus Pauling's fiasco on vitamin C. He was successfully sued by the Director of the Linus Pauling Institute, to disclose the fact that the only thing that stopped cancer was dark green live vegetable juices, and that the vitamin c was actually destroying the stomachs and intestines of the people, especially women, who took the supplement. Dr. Pauling had falsified the information about vitamin C and further investigation actually caused one of his Nobel Prizes to be under a cloud." -Dr. Flora

How much is a Nobel worth? A lot more than the prize money
[www.alarabiya.net]

<<<there are those here who appear to have some very extreme issues with anyone who disagrees with them>>>

Hey suncloud,

You just don't get it - your IGNORANCE (and other people like you) jeopardize my health, well-being and even my existence!!!

Hi John,

I would prefer to be friends with you or at least peacefully coexist. Is there any way we can do this and still express our individual opinions?

What would you think about a temporary moratorium on disagreeing or posting negative comments related to each other's posts?

Say a week?

Or, do you have any other possible solutions to address these bad feelings and bring peace? I'm open to anything except falling into line with views I don't agree with and keeping silent about my own.

Anyway, what do you think could help?

i was saying the same thing as you suncloud, quantity, just not very clearly i suppose.

i still haven't seen anyone honestly confront the alternative causes suggested.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i was saying the same thing as you suncloud,
> quantity, just not very clearly i suppose.
>
> i still haven't seen anyone honestly confront the
> alternative causes suggested.

We got moved. Good call Prana!

"Alternative causes". Fresh, do you mean like vaccines and/or diet and/or other environmental toxins? Which do you think, or do you believe all are causes? Or, do you think people are just faking it and not really sick at all? It seems like I've read several of the above.

And, do you (or others) think Ebola is the result of a deliberate conspiracy, or just a misdiagnosis?

From my personal point of view, I prefer to think in terms of other "contributing" causes rather than "alternative" causes, because I do believe viruses exist.

For example, I believe it's very possible that invasive environmental toxins may have had some role in generating the Ebola virus in the first place, most likely first contracted by fruit bats or wild primates, which were then eaten by human inhabitants. Bush meat.

I also believe that diet and lifestyle are always contributing causes.

But I don't mind hearing some specifics about what you fresh and others have to say. Especially specifics. If it's a true intentional conspiracy for example, how are all the doctors and nurses kept quiet? Or are they all "bad guys" too? How do the conspirators make sure that "good guys" stay out of the African Ebola picture? Are the lab results all rigged? Are lab technicians paid to do this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 05:54AM by suncloud.

<<<If it's a true intentional conspiracy for example, how are all the doctors and nurses kept quiet? Or are they all "bad guys" too? How do the conspirators make sure that "good guys" stay out of the African Ebola picture? Are the lab results all rigged? Are lab technicians paid to do this?>>>

The Whole Medical System (or ~95% of it) is one HUGE CONSPIRACY!!!

Everything in our Society of any significance has Everything to do with our Health or more specifically, our Lack of Health and that means that EVERYTHING related to Health has to be Controlled by the Status Quo to make sure that the Status Quo remains the Status Quo. And when I’m referring to the Status Quo, I’m not referring to the actual Systems themselves, I’m actually referring to a very small group of people that Own and Control Every Major Sector of Human Endeavor, especially all of those Sectors that have anything to do with our Health or anything to do with Solving any Problem that is 100% Within our Control.

So how are all the doctors and nurses kept quiet?

First of all, all of our so-called Experts are Mis-Directed by this very small group of people. Remember, these Psychopaths Own and Control Every Major Sector of Human Endeavor and can make sure that all of our so-called Experts take the 1st Step in the Wrong Direction. That’s why all of our so-called Experts in Medicine Study Anatomy, Chemistry and Pharmakeia, for example, and do NOT Study all of the Lifestyle Factors that are CAUSING 99% of our Illnesses and Ill-Behaviors. There are NO Chemical Solutions for Lifestyle Related Problems, which means that we should NOT even have a Treatment Peddling Industry for Problems that are Self-Inflicted!

So why do we have a Treatment Peddling Industry for Problems that are 100% Within our Control?

It’s simple!!!

Everything in our Society of any significance has Everything to do with our Health or more specifically, our Lack of Health!!!

So Doctors and Nurses are Clueless as to why we get Sick and all they do is FOCUS on the SYMPTOMS, which we have to do in Emergency Situations, like Accidents and Acts of Nature, but NOT for Problems that are Lifestyle Related!!!.

Another reason why Doctors and Nurses are Clueless is because everything is based on a Pyramid or a “Need to Know” basis.

In other words, our Medical System (like every other Human Endeavor that is Owned and Controlled by the same small group of people) is Compartmentalized, so most people who work for our Medical System are just like everyone else and since it is Compartmentalized, most people have no idea what’s really going on. “Just such a Compartmentalized apparatus was what allowed the US’s Manhattan Project to develop the atomic bomb in secret despite having 130,000 people working on it.”

JR Insert from “Conspiracy” file…
[thrivemovement.com]
The Problem / Global Domination Agenda

…

Conspiracy

Conspiracy: an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot. (dictionary.com)

Until recently, the controllers have been quite successful at insulting the idea that there might actually be conspiracies going on. “Conspiracy theorists... wackos...paranoid nut cases.” It has been made socially unacceptable to challenge big lies that we are told, because someone might make fun of us. But “conspiracy THEORY” has been turning into “conspiracy ANALYSIS” and finally into conspiracy FACT. When President George Bush Sr. got busted for covertly selling arms to the Contras, his administration was convicted of ...Conspiracy. When the AMA tried to shut down the emergence of Chiropractic, they were found guilty of...Conspiracy. Here are a few more of countless examples of proven conspiracies:

“33 CONSPIRACIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE”

…

Common Objections to the Notion of Conspiracy

Government is too incompetent to pull off such a vast conspiracy and keep it secret.

Pyramid – “need to know” basis

As portrayed in THRIVE, the key to keeping secret an agenda as massive as what I am describing is a “pyramid” structure, a “need to know” system, where people only understand as much as they need to do accomplish their tasks, but no more. That way only the individuals at the top of each pyramid know the full plan. This is the way it works in the secret societies, the CIA, the banks, the major corporations, the military, the media and on and on. Most people involved in fulfilling the Global Domination Agenda would be horrified if they actually understood what they are inadvertently contributing to. Just such a compartmentalized apparatus was what allowed the US’s Manhattan Project to develop the atomic bomb in secret despite having 130,000 people working on it.

…
[thrivemovement.com]
End of JR Insert from “Conspiracy” file.

Hey fresh,

I thought that this part of the Video that you posted was spot on - see JR’s Notes below.

JR Insert from “AIDS, Syphilis & Fasting” file…
Why I Began Questioning HIV
(From the House of Numbers Deluxe Edition DVD)
13:59 Minute Video

JR’s Notes:

12:42 MM
Brent: What do you mean theoretical? Are you saying that those deaths didn’t actually occur?

Rian Malan, South African Journalist/Author: I can’t give you a yes or no answer on that. This subject requires the Wisdom of a Buddhist - you have to be able to hold 2 possibilities in your brain at the same time - it’s very difficult for most people to do. 13:00 MM
End of JR Insert from “AIDS, Syphilis & Fasting” file.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i was saying the same thing as you suncloud,
> > quantity, just not very clearly i suppose.
> >
> > i still haven't seen anyone honestly confront
> the
> > alternative causes suggested.
>
> We got moved. Good call Prana!
>
> "Alternative causes". Fresh, do you mean like
> vaccines and/or diet and/or other environmental
> toxins? Which do you think, or do you believe all
> are causes? Or, do you think people are just
> faking it and not really sick at all? It seems
> like I've read several of the above.
>
> And, do you (or others) think Ebola is the result
> of a deliberate conspiracy, or just a
> misdiagnosis?
>
> From my personal point of view, I prefer to think
> in terms of other "contributing" causes rather
> than "alternative" causes, because I do believe
> viruses exist.
>
> For example, I believe it's very possible that
> invasive environmental toxins may have had some
> role in generating the Ebola virus in the first
> place, most likely first contracted by fruit bats
> or wild primates, which were then eaten by human
> inhabitants. Bush meat.
>
> I also believe that diet and lifestyle are always
> contributing causes.
>
> But I don't mind hearing some specifics about what
> you fresh and others have to say. Especially
> specifics. If it's a true intentional conspiracy
> for example, how are all the doctors and nurses
> kept quiet? Or are they all "bad guys" too? How
> do the conspirators make sure that "good guys"
> stay out of the African Ebola picture? Are the
> lab results all rigged? Are lab technicians paid
> to do this?

I have read that almost all, if not all, Ebola survivors are under 45 years old.

Here is a follow-up on being "Compartmentalized" as it relates to the Concept of Totality from my Notes in my file with the same name...

“A Cancer Therapy Results Of Fifty Cases”
by Dr. Max Gerson
Chapter II
The Concept of Totality-Decisive in Cancer and Other Degenerative Diseases

“Dr. Nichols was probably one of the first in our time who recognized the “concept of totality” as applied to disease. He combined the following clinical appearances: Emotional, nutritional, poisons, infections, accidents and inheritance as underlying causes for diseases: ‘No wonder we are all sick . . . and science is no longer science when it attempts to violate God’s natural law.’” p. 11

“I found the ideas of totality more profoundly developed in the ancient work of Paracelsus, and many other physicians of long ago.

It is not only in biology where the ideas of totality is to be regarded as an entity of the natural processes; it is also the rule in art, in philosophy, in music, in physics, where the most learned scholars found the concept of totality alive in their fields of research and work.” p. 12

“Medical science has eliminated the totality of the natural biological rules in the human body, mostly by dividing research and practice into many specialties. Doing intensive, masterly specialized work, it was forgotten that every part is still only a piece of the entire body. ...

...The symptoms of a disease have become the main problem for research, clinical work and therapy.” p. 13

“In my opinion, the application of the concept of totality can help us find the true cause of cancer; ...” p. 14

“Therefore, the treatment also has to penetrate deeply to correct all the vital processes. When the general metabolism is corrected, we can influence again retrospective functioning of all other organs, tissues, and cells through it. This means that there should be a treatment applied which will fulfill the task of totality in every aspect, taking care of the functions of the whole body in all its different parts, thus restoring the harmony of all biological systems. The treatment which will fulfill this complex problem is described in detail later. Here it should merely be emphasized that the treatment has to fulfill two fundamental components. The first component is the detoxification of the whole body which has to be carried out over a long period of time, until all tumors are absorbed and the essential organs of the body are so far restored that they can take over this important “cleansing function” by themselves. If that is not effected to the necessary degree, the entire body becomes the victim of a continuously increasing poisoning with dire consequences (coma hepaticum). Secondly, the entire intestinal tract has to be restored simultaneously; with the restoration of the intestinal tract, the most important secretory functions will be repaired, as well as its circulation and motility regulated by the visceral nervous system. In that way, we can activate, together with other functions, defense, immunity and healing power in the body. Immunity does not mean here that the body is protected against a special bacterium; as in an infectious disease, it means that no abnormal cell can grow or develop in the body with normal metabolism. For that purpose, the degree of restoration of the liver plays a decisive role. We should not forget that a body detoxified constantly through the liver and the best nutrition can maintain an active metabolism with the help of the liver. Thus, the concept of totality will be obeyed in medicine as it is active in other living and non-living processes of nature. The same is true in the field of nutrition.” pp. 16-17

“These examples are chosen to illustrate the biological fact that not one factor alone or a combination of single factors is decisive, but what is decisive is how they influence the whole body, mind and soul in their entirety.” p. 18

“Cancer, the great killer, will be prevented and can be cured if we learn to understand the eternal laws of totality in nature and in our body. Both are combined and have to be united in an effective treatment for cancer; in that way we can learn to cure cancer in a higher proportion, even of advanced cases. The limitations of the totality of functions of the whole body, however, also come into action here. The totality of functions is lost if one or another vital organ is too far destroyed.” p. 18

“This cannot be compared with the slowly progressive deterioration in our system caused by modern civilization.” p. 19

Chapter V
The Theory

“If we approach the cancer problem from a more practical viewpoint--the clinical side--based on the concept of totality, we learn two things: firstly, we have to live near nature, according to our natural development. Secondly, science cannot help us to solve the deep, underlying cause of cancer.” pp. 37-38

I do agree that medications often kill, and always have side effects. The medical community has a long way to go.

I also believe the Ebola virus is real. But if not, what specifically is causing so many people to get sick and die within a relatively small area? Most of those people have not seen a doctor at all, because there have been no available beds.

And how are so many healthcare workers getting sick and dying?

And for the people who are diagnosed with Ebola through serum testing, how are all these test results rigged?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I have read that almost all, if not all, Ebola
> survivors are under 45 years old.

SueZ, an article discusses this same thing and refers (I think) to the report in New England Journal of Medicine that we looked at previously.

"Health workers treating patients in Sierra Leone, including some who died doing that work, have published the most detailed report yet on medical aspects of the epidemic...

"In particular, it shows the advantage of youth - the fatality rate was 57 percent for patients under 21, but a whopping 94 percent for those over 45."

The following is also included in the report, which helps to explain why those who receive fluids are more likely to survive:

"One striking factor was how devastating the severe diarrhea is from the disease.

"If you can keep up with simple hydration during that phase, you can prevent a lot of deaths," Dr. Bruce Farber, chief of infectious diseases at North Shore University Hospital in Manhasset, N.Y., and Long Island Jewish Medical Center in New Hyde Park, N.Y. told CBS News.

"Basic supportive care that provides intravenous fluids, nutrients, and maintains a patient's blood pressure can be the difference between life and death."

The article ends on this note:

"Seven of the 47 study authors died - six of them from Ebola and one from a stroke. They included Dr. Sheik Humarr Khan, a doctor who led Sierra Leone's battle against Ebola until his death in July."

[www.cbsnews.com]

Here's the report:

[www.nejm.org]

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> I have read that almost all, if not all, Ebola
> > survivors are under 45 years old.
>
> SueZ, an article discusses this same thing and
> refers (I think) to the report in New England
> Journal of Medicine that we looked at previously.
>
> "Health workers treating patients in Sierra Leone,
> including some who died doing that work, have
> published the most detailed report yet on medical
> aspects of the epidemic...
>
> "In particular, it shows the advantage of youth -
> the fatality rate was 57 percent for patients
> under 21, but a whopping 94 percent for those over
> 45."
>
> The following is also included in the report,
> which helps to explain why those who receive
> fluids are more likely to survive:
>
> "One striking factor was how devastating the
> severe diarrhea is from the disease.
>
> "If you can keep up with simple hydration during
> that phase, you can prevent a lot of deaths," Dr.
> Bruce Farber, chief of infectious diseases at
> North Shore University Hospital in Manhasset,
> N.Y., and Long Island Jewish Medical Center in New
> Hyde Park, N.Y. told CBS News.
>
> "Basic supportive care that provides intravenous
> fluids, nutrients, and maintains a patient's blood
> pressure can be the difference between life and
> death."
>
> The article ends on this note:
>
> "Seven of the 47 study authors died - six of them
> from Ebola and one from a stroke. They included
> Dr. Sheik Humarr Khan, a doctor who led Sierra
> Leone's battle against Ebola until his death in
> July."
>
> [www.cbsnews.com]
> e-likely-to-die-from-ebola/
>
> Here's the report:
>
> [www.nejm.org]
> #t=articleResults

Thanks, Suncloud! I knew I had read it somewhere, lol.

There are some interesting eyebrow raising CDC Ebola updates...

[pissinontheroses.blogspot.com]

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 08:11PM by SueZ.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
>> When President
> George Bush Sr. got busted for covertly selling
> arms to the Contras, his administration was
> convicted of ...Conspiracy. When the AMA tried to
> shut down the emergence of Chiropractic, they were
> found guilty of...Conspiracy. Here are a few more
> of countless examples of proven conspiracies:


I definitely believe conspiracies exist and have existed, including of course Iran/Contra. (That was during the Reagan administration, when George Bush Sr. was vice president.)

Lots of stuff definitely happened during the Reagan and Bush II administrations. Rumsfeld and Cheney were major players in both. One of Rumsfeld's first acts within the Reagan administration was to fire FDA heads who were opposed to approving aspartame, which was Rumsfeld's baby from previous employment. And of course Cheney was associated with Halliburton, the Iraq war profiteer. And then there was the Valerie Plame conspiracy, associated with the yellowcake uranium conspiracy, etc.

And even before that, what was the mafia connection with Nixon? Who really was Bebe Rebozo, Nixon's friend and possible accomplice in several sketchy activities? Did we really land on the moon? Looked very phony to me.

And I still question who was involved in the assassinations of John Kennedy and Martin Luther King.

I'm also aware of efforts by pharmaceutical companies to keep experimental results quiet, to lobby for approval for dangerous drugs, and to promote medications within the medical community. Yes, unfortunately.

And of course there have been many other horrors perpetrated by our government. Abu Ghraib for instance.

After all, I was a teenager in the 60s during the Vietnam war when my high school friends were drafted by lottery and they came back with lost limbs and lost souls, or they didn't come back at all. Or they went to jail or Canada instead. And I have heard stories from 2 friends who personally witnessed body bags stuffed with heroin.

But I don't believe there's an Ebola conspiracy any more than there's a lava flow conspiracy in Puna. I also don't believe our biochemistry and microbiology books are written by conspirators. And I don't believe lab tests are all rigged. Conspiracies have to managed, and that's not manageable.

Of course others are entitled to believe whatever they wish, and I wish to treat all beliefs with respect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 08:27PM by suncloud.

----



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 10:48PM by suncloud.

Bad news: Thousands Break Ebola Quarantine to Find Food in Sierra Leone

[www.nbcnews.com]

Good news: Ebola: Abbott government relents, will send Australian volunteers to treat victims

[www.smh.com.au]

<<<Of course others are entitled to believe whatever they wish, and I wish to treat all beliefs with respect.>>>

Yes, that sounds really nice, especially for those who want to Cull the Masses!!!

=====================================================================
[www.youtube.com]
Minister Farrakhan Blasts Media & Reporters
During Radio Interview Commercial!
4:57 Minute Video

Uploaded by Ahmad770 on Oct 29, 2011
Minister Farrakhan smashes on media reporters during a commercial break on a local Chicago radio station

JR’s Notes:

3:18 MM
…where Zbigniew Brzezinski could say, “Yesterday, it was easier to Control a Million People than to Kill a Million People. Then, now he says, “It’s easier to Kill a Million People than to Control a Million People because the Genie is out of the Box, the cat is out the bag, the people all over the world are Waking Up. And you need to Wake Up and Free America, then you’ll have a Future and your children will have a Future. But if you’re afraid, afraid for what? You’re going to die anyway. Where can you run to escape death? If you Love America, then Fight for America to be Free. . 4:08 MM

JR Insert from YouTube Video below…
6:39 MM
And these new and old Major Powers face still yet another novel reality, in some respects, unprecedented. And it is that while the lethality, the lethality of their Power is greater than ever, their capacity to impose Control over the Politically Awaken Masses of the World is at a historical low. I once put it rather pungently and I was flattered that the British Foreign Secretary repeated this as follows, “Namely in earlier times, it was easier to Control a Million People, literally, it was easier to Control a Million People than physically to Kill a Million People. Today, it is infinitely easier to Kill a Million People than to Control a Million People - it’s easier to Kill than to Control. And, of course, that bears directly on the use of force particularly by Societies that are Culturally alien over other Societies. 7:50 MM
End of JR Insert from YouTube Video below.
[www.youtube.com]
=====================================================================
[www.youtube.com]
Brzezinski: "It’s easier to kill a million people...
than it is to control them"
7:50 Minute Video
Uploaded by TheBelovedFighter021 on May 10, 2009
This 'man' is deeply sick.

Part 2:
[www.youtube.com]

Obama Adviser Brzezinskis Off-the-record Speech to British Elites

Written by William F. Jasper
Friday, 21 November 2008 13:31

Zbigniew Brzezinski, a senior adviser to President-elect Barack Obama on matters of national security and foreign policy, was the featured speaker at Chatham House in London on November 17, 2008. The title of his lecture was Major Foreign Policy Challenges for the Next US President. Although Chatham House events are known to attract the great and the good of Englands political, financial, and academic elites — as well as many of its top media representatives — there has been virtually no word as to what Brzezinski had to say in any of the worlds press.

This is but the latest example of the hermetic seal known as the Chatham House Rule, which states:

When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed.

Chatham House, in St. James Square, London, is the headquarters of the powerful Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA), founded in 1920 as the principal front organization of the secret Round Table network of Cecil Rhodes, famous for his fabulous wealth from Africas gold and diamond mines. The RIIA was founded in conjunction with its sister organization in the United States, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), which is headquartered at the Pratt House in New York. Pratt House also has formally adopted the Chatham House Rule, as has the U.S. State Department (which has been dominated by CFR members for seven decades) and other U.S. agencies.

Thus, we frequently have top U.S. officials speaking privately to audiences of American and foreign elites concerning matters of great importance to the American people, but the content of those talks is off-limits to the American public. This especially should be a matter of concern if the matters these elites are discussing involve plans that will dramatically impact our society, our economy, and our political system.

Brzezinski and his friends at the RIIA and CFR assure us that nothing of the sort ever happens at these gatherings. However, I did attend one of Brzezinskis lectures at a globalist conference, where the content certainly was disturbing. It was Mikhail Gorbachevs 1995 State of the World Forum in San Francisco, and Brzezinski was one of the key speakers. He was frustrated that the new millennium was only five years away, but his long-sought goal of world government was still far off. We do not have a new world order, he told the audience, a veritable Whos Who of world finance, business, politics, media, and academia. We cannot leap into world government in one quick step, Brzezinski noted. Attaining that objective, he explained, would require a gradual process of globalization, building the new world order step by step, stone by stone through progressive regionalization.

Through his writings — as well as his policies while President Jimmy Carters national security adviser — Brzezinski has demonstrated that he is committed to the globalist world view of the RIIA/CFR and the Trilateral Commission (which he helped found, becoming its first director) rather than the constitutionalist view of our Founding Fathers. Rather than a sovereign, independent, constitutional republic, he is committed to a new world order that proposes steadily encroaching international controls and institutions, leading gradually, steadily to an America that is submerged and subsumed in a world government.

Those familiar with the writings, speeches, policies, and public records of the many public figures who attend (and speak before) these globalist gatherings understand that Brzezinskis views on these matters are not his alone; they are shared by many (if not most) of those in attendance. They are the people who set policies and determine the course our nation will take. They prattle regularly about their commitment to transparency in government. Yet they themselves speak at off-the-record gatherings such as the recent Chatham House event where Brzezinski was the featured speaker.

JR’s Notes:

6:39 MM
And these new and old Major Powers face still yet another novel reality, in some respects, unprecedented. And it is that while the lethality, the lethality of their Power is greater than ever, their capacity to impose Control over the Politically Awaken Masses of the World is at a historical low. I once put it rather pungently and I was flattered that the British Foreign Secretary repeated this as follows, “Namely in earlier times, it was easier to Control a Million People, literally, it was easier to Control a Million People than physically to Kill a Million People. Today, it is infinitely easier to Kill a Million People than to Control a Million People - it’s easier to Kill than to Control. And, of course, that bears directly on the use of force particularly by Societies that are Culturally alien over other Societies. 7:50 MM
[www.youtube.com]
=====================================================================

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> suncloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> I have read that almost all, if not all,
> Ebola
> > > survivors are under 45 years old.
> >
> > SueZ, an article discusses this same thing and
> > refers (I think) to the report in New England
> > Journal of Medicine that we looked at
> previously.
> >
> > "Health workers treating patients in Sierra
> Leone,
> > including some who died doing that work, have
> > published the most detailed report yet on
> medical
> > aspects of the epidemic...
> >
> > "In particular, it shows the advantage of youth
> -
> > the fatality rate was 57 percent for patients
> > under 21, but a whopping 94 percent for those
> over
> > 45."
> >
> > The following is also included in the report,
> > which helps to explain why those who receive
> > fluids are more likely to survive:
> >
> > "One striking factor was how devastating the
> > severe diarrhea is from the disease.
> >
> > "If you can keep up with simple hydration
> during
> > that phase, you can prevent a lot of deaths,"
> Dr.
> > Bruce Farber, chief of infectious diseases at
> > North Shore University Hospital in Manhasset,
> > N.Y., and Long Island Jewish Medical Center in
> New
> > Hyde Park, N.Y. told CBS News.
> >
> > "Basic supportive care that provides
> intravenous
> > fluids, nutrients, and maintains a patient's
> blood
> > pressure can be the difference between life and
> > death."
> >
> > The article ends on this note:
> >
> > "Seven of the 47 study authors died - six of
> them
> > from Ebola and one from a stroke. They included
> > Dr. Sheik Humarr Khan, a doctor who led Sierra
> > Leone's battle against Ebola until his death in
> > July."
> >
> >
> [www.cbsnews.com]
>
> > e-likely-to-die-from-ebola/
> >
> > Here's the report:
> >
> >
> [www.nejm.org]
>
> > #t=articleResults
>
> Thanks, Suncloud! I knew I had read it somewhere,
> lol.
>
> There are some interesting eyebrow raising CDC
> Ebola updates...
>
> [pissinontheroses.blogspot.com]
>
> [www.youtube.com]

"UPDATE 1: The CDC's new Ebola case definition greatly increase the category of persons who may be forcefully quarantined to anyone who was in proximity of an Ebola case even if the Ebola victim was not actively showing symptoms at the time of proximity. (more to follow)



UPDATE2:

After a more detail reading, the CDC has greatly increased the at risk Ebola category to include the following:

1) Direct contact (hand shake) with Ebola victim 21 days PRIOR to symptom onset

2) Airborne contact, ie even "brief proximity" (such as being in the same room for a brief period of time) with an Ebola victim AFTER their symptom onset

Any person who meets those two above definitions and in the subject eyes of an examiner has any "signs" of concern such as elevated body temperature (98.7 deg F) is now defined as a "Person Under Investigation" for Ebola. And as such, that person is subject to forceful quarantine "



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2014 12:42AM by SueZ.