antibiotics.

I'm sure that has nothing to do with diseases in africa either.

antibiotics and vaccinations are GOOD!

[ispub.com]

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> • Human beings should eat fruit, vegetables,
> nuts, and fresh fish that give off radiations
> higher than their own normal 6,500, if they wish
> to energize themselves and feel healthy.


...This is my target diet. I am proud to say that I figured it out on my own, using quite different sources ('aquatic ape' theory) along with the knowledge I acquired on this site (forever thankful!)

I do not eat fish on a raw vegan diet though.

Ebola virus is real.
"Scientists found the origins of the Ebola outbreak — by tracking its mutations"
[www.vox.com]

Only in this forum people think it does not exist

Fascinating article RawPracticalist. Thanks!

Seems the truth is always stranger than fiction, or as Lord Byron put it:

" 'Tis strange - but true; for truth is always strange;
Stranger than fiction; if it could be told,
How much would novels gain by the exchange!
How differently the world would men behold!
How oft would vice and virtue places change!
The new world would be nothing to the old,
If some Columbus of the moral seas
Would show mankind their souls' antipodes."

Or, I like this from Mark Twain:

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.", which is exactly what makes it so fascinating, IMO.

Did you see this in the article? "The paper is also a sad reminder of the toll that the virus has taken on those working on the front lines. Five of the authors died of Ebola before it was published."

No fear, but much admiration and respect for these brave soldiers of science.

<<<Ebola virus is real. Only in this forum people think it does not exist>>>

Most people have way too many References that Support what they think is the Truth and Not enough Pieces of the Puzzle to recognize the Truth when they see it.

For example, 6 Drug Companies make $500 Billion a year and many of the sources of this income is to about to dry up. So the trend is to replace these Drugs with the use of Vaccines and what’s really SCARY is that there are over 400 new Vaccines in the pipeline that are targeted for us. Unfortunately, most people don’t see the connection between Vaccines and Viruses because most people have way too many References that Support their FALSE Beliefs about Vaccines and Viruses.

In other words, the Powers That Be can NOT sell their Vaccines without us first selling us the FALSE BELIEF in Viruses. WAKE UP people! STOP BELIEVING EVERYTHING YOU READ because your life depends on it!!!

<<<Truth is stranger than fiction>>>

I've said for many years that most of us have been LIED to for so long that the TRUTH now sounds like a LIE!!!

For example, "the Acting Chief of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Branch of the National Immunization Program" IS "The Lying Man. He is in charge of other liars."

[jonrappoport.wordpress.com]
CNN asks serial lying liar to comment on CDC whistleblower scandal!
by Jon Rappoport
August 29, 2014
www.nomorefakenews.com

You want a perfect example of how mainstream media covers up the truth and endangers lives? Here it is.

Yesterday, CNN published an article about CDC whistleblower William Thompson.
(CNN: “Journal questions validity of autism and vaccine study” —the CNN reporter for this story is Debra Goldschmidt (twitter: @debgcnn). Jacque Wilson and Miriam Falco also contributed to this story. The story is augmented with a video featuring CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen (twitter: @elizcohencnn). The Spanish language version of the story is here.)

The day before yesterday, Thompson confessed that he and other CDC coauthors fabricated a 2004 CDC study, in order to hide an MMR-vaccine connection to autism.

Those other co-authors included Dr. Frank DeStefano. DeStefano was the lead author of the 2004 study.

The CDC’s Frank DeStefano

So naturally…CNN goes to DeStefano for a quote defending the safety of vaccines, and De Stefano, the accused liar, tells another lie without blushing, without missing a beat.

He says:

“We know the brain and cellular features for children begin when the child is still in the womb. The brain is already developing the wiring that will manifest in autism.”

In other words, according to DeStefano, vaccines couldn’t cause autism, because it’s already forming before the child has ever had a vaccine.

If that were true, why bother to do thousands of studies that allege there is no vaccine-autism connection?

DeStefano is lying. If he had proof—brain-scan pictures—that show autism forming in the womb, the world would have seen them by now. Those pictures would be front and center in the DSM, the official bible of mental disorders. Those pictures, in fact, would be the diagnostic test that confirms the presence of autism.

But guess what? If you go to the DSM and the definition of autism, you will find no defining diagnostic tests. No brain scans. No pictures. No blood test. No urine test. No genetic assay.

Frank DeStefano is a liar.

DeStefano is a very important serial liar at the CDC. He isn’t just a liar who lied in the 2004 study that exonerated the MMR vaccine.

He has authored work exonerating mercury in vaccines.

And DeStefano isn’t just an author. No. He happens to be, since 2004, when he lied about the MMR vaccine, the Acting Chief of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Branch of the National Immunization Program.

DeStefano is The Man when it comes to vaccine safety.

The Lying Man. He is in charge of other liars.

Good work, CNN. You’re upholding your reputation as the most trusted name in serial lying.

Jon Rappoport
[jonrappoport.wordpress.com]

Here are a couple of articles from my file on "Cancer, Viruses & Vaccines":

[www.naturalnews.com]
There's no such thing as a virus that causes chronic fatigue syndrome
Thursday, October 15, 2009 by: Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor

…

Every viral announcement is a covert push for a future vaccine

…
[www.naturalnews.com]

[www.naturalnews.com]
CDC admits, then retracts statistics reporting that 98 million Americans were injected with vaccines containing cancer virus
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 by: Lance Johnson

…

The saved CDC information comes right out and admits that more than 98 million Americans during a span of eight years were injected with a cancer-causing polyomavirus called SV40.

…

[www.naturalnews.com]

Here is an article from my file on "Obesity & Viruses" which illustrates that the Powers That Be want us to believe that there’s a Virus and a Vaccine for EVERY disease!:

[www.webmd.com]
The Fat Virus: Could Obesity Be Contagious?

it's not a matter of "not existing".

show me the proof that antibiotics, vaccines, poor sanitation are not the cause, and a virus is.

To John Rose and readers,

Just for the record, no one is trying to sell a vaccine for ebola; because so far there isn't one.

Also, viruses probably do exist if their genome can be determined (see RawPracticalist's article).

Agree that healthier people are not as susceptible to disease. ALSO symptoms of many diseases, including viruses, bacteria, and the effects of overeating and eating junk - ALL OF THESE culminate in the body's effort to extricate the invasive material. This effort produces symptoms of elimination.

Unfortunately, many of today's medicines focus on the symptoms rather than the disease by attempting to prevent the uncomfortable effects of elimination. Those medicines can add toxins that may cause additional damage.

Some medicines however have also saved lives. Herbs have saved lives too. Just because viruses are not the cause for everything (like chronic fatigue syndrome),... and some vaccines are junk and others can cause serious harm (My high school sweetheart's sister was left severely retarded after a polio vaccine. Another friend's daughter landed in a wheel chair after a recent flu vaccine and still has tremors) - none of that means that viruses don't exist.

Hi Fresh. For proof, how about maybe signing up for a course in microbiology that includes lab? Like know the enemy and all that.

I heard on some radio show there was an ebola vaccine in the 70s or something and the creator came out and said some pretty controversial things and had an accident or something and died. I cant find it online, but there is a book about it I heard.

I heard recently that its also not that bad, like you have to be very malnourished. I think in some vitamins. But Americans that so called are getting it live through it and get better.

I heard I heard I heard.

Yeah about Vaccines, my baby cousin died after booster shots.
Polio was long on its way out before vaccines introduced when people started becoming cleaner.

As of now, I must hold the view that the ebola issue is similar to the HIV causes "AIDS" issue, which I am fairly certain is nonsense.

If you have some real evidence that an ebola virus causes disease, let me know.

How can they make that claim? Do they have evidence in vivo that the virus in question is taking over and damaging the cells of the body?

All they have, from what I can tell, is
"we found this virus"
people are sick
we blame the virus.

What do you think is injected into people for vaccines? cell fragments and attenuated or live viruses ...

Plus as I shared from the other article, antibiotics can cause the bleeding associated with the illness.

Why do some people miraculously recover from this allegedly horrible virus when removed from those conditions and given rest and fluids?

Just too many inconsistencies.

Plus all they do is lie, as JR's article on MMR-autism showed once again.

Ebola: covert op in a hypnotized world

by Jon Rappoport

August 2, 2014

[www.nomorefakenews.com]



You show people a germ and you tell them what it is and what it does, and people salute. They give in. They believe. They actually know nothing. But they believe.

The massive campaign to make people believe the Ebola virus can attack at any moment, after the slightest contact, is quite a success.

People are falling all over themselves to raise the level of hysteria.

This is what is preventing a hard look at Liberia, Sierra Leone, and the Republic Guinea, three African nations where poverty and illness are staples of everyday life for the overwhelming number of people.

The command structure in those areas has a single dictum: don’t solve the human problem.

Don’t clean up the contaminated water supplies, don’t return stolen land to the people so they can grow food and finally achieve nutritional health, don’t solve overcrowding, don’t install basic sanitation, don’t strengthen their immune systems so they can ward off germs, don’t let the people have power—because then they would throw off the local and global corporate juggernauts that are sucking the land of all its resources.

In order not to solve the problems of the people, a cover story is necessary. A cover story that exonerates the power structure.

A cover story like a germ.

It’s all about the germ. The demon. The strange attacker.

Forget everything else. The germ is the single enemy.

Forget the fact, for example, that a recent study of 15 pharmacies and 5 hospital drug dispensaries in Sierra Leone discovered the widespread and unconscionable use of beta-lactam antibiotics.

These drugs are highly toxic. One of their effects? Excessive bleeding.

Which just happens to be the scary “Ebola effect” that’s being trumpeted in the world press.

(J Clin Microbiol, July 2013, 51(7), 2435-2438), and Annals of Internal Medicine Dec. 1986, “Potential for bleeding with the new beta-lactam antibiotics”)

Forget the fact that pesticide companies are notorious for shipping banned toxic pesticides to Africa. One effect of the chemicals? Bleeding.

Forget that. It’s all about the germ and nothing but the germ.

Forget the fact that, for decades, one of the leading causes of death in the Third World has been uncontrolled diarrhea. Electrolytes are drained from the body, and the adult or the baby dies.

Any sane doctor would make it his first order of business to replace electrolytes with simple supplementation—but no, the standard medical line goes this way:

The diarrhea is caused by germs in the intestinal tract, so we must pile on massive amounts of antibiotics to kill the germs.

The drugs kill off all bacteria in the gut, including the necessary and beneficial ones, and the patient can’t absorb what little food he has access to, and he dies.

Along the way, he can also bleed.

But no, all the bleeding comes from Ebola. It’s the germ. Don’t think about anything else.

Forget the fact that adenovirus vaccines, which have been used in Liberia, Guinea, and Liberia (the epicenter of Ebola), have, according to vaccines.gov, the following adverse effects: blood in the urine or stool, and diarrhea.

No, all the bleeding comes from the Ebola germ. Of course. Don’t think about anything else.

Reporter Charles Yates uncovered a scandal in Liberia centering around the Firestone Rubber Plantation—chemical dumping, poisoned water.

And skin disease.

“Rash” is listed as one of the Ebola symptoms.

So is diarrhea.

Liberia Coca Cola bottling plant: foul black liquid seeping into the environment—animals dying.

Chronic malnutrition and starvation—conditions that are endemic in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea—are the number-one cause of T-cells depletion in the world.

T-cells are a vital component of the immune system. When that system is compromised, any germ coming down the pipeline will cause epidemics and death.

Getting the picture?

Blame it all on the germ.

Allow the corporate-government domination to continue.

[jonrappoport.wordpress.com]

[jonrappoport.wordpress.com]

Germs do make a great conspiracy theory. But how does this guy Jon Rappoport know all of that? By logic alone it seems. And yet his logic has huge gaps going from just (a) to (b).

Given (a): the medical establishment has a history of abuse. Not given (b): Jon Rappoport's CLAIMS about the nonexistence of germs.

There's no evidential connection between (a) and (b). Whatsoever.

And which is scarier, the germs or the conspiracy? Of course Mr. Rappoport wouldn't be attempting to take advantage of anyone's conspiracy fears, while he rants about others taking advantage of people's germ fears.

How much sense does it make to listen (and actually believe) some guy spouting buckwheat on the internet?

Another (or additional) option might be to pick up an up-to-date microbiology textbook and read it -just to get a sense of what else is going on that maybe even Jon Rappoport won't know about or mention if he did.

Or the alternative: sign up to help treat ebola patients in Africa, and refuse the protective gear (not recommended).

Yes, people do get rich selling medicine - some of it really bad stuff. People ALSO get rich selling conspiracy theories. Maybe that's the real connection. (Naaaa)

The thing is, studying microbiology will not necessarily provide any evidence to support the claims about ebola, as there are potentially multiple non viral reasons for the symptoms, and this is not conjecture. there is ample evidence about the poisons and living conditions and the symptoms that result that match the symptoms, if you read all of the above.

here is some standard microbiology for you, suncloud.

If you know anything about diet and health, you will see the nonsense pandered here....

viruses cause the common cold and flu? do you really believe that suncloud?
diarrhea?
AIDS?
alzheimers?

seriously?

If they get even that simple stuff wrong, why would I believe that the rest is credible?

"One main motivation for the study of viruses is the fact that they cause many important infectious diseases, among them the common cold, influenza, rabies, measles, many forms of diarrhea, hepatitis, Dengue fever, yellow fever, polio, smallpox and AIDS.[4] Herpes simplex causes cold sores and genital herpes and is under investigation as a possible factor in Alzheimer's."

Sorry fresh, but the evidence is available (in books and research) that viruses can influence onset of flu and the common cold. I also however very strongly agree that diet and lifestyle are preventive/curative.

Diarrhea is usually related to the body trying to get rid of something. It's an eliminative symptom. Bad food can cause it. Parasites can cause it too. Viruses are similar to parasites (they require a host to reproduce), except that most virologists consider them to be "non-living".

You might like this short article:

[www.sciencedaily.com]

Regarding Alzheimer's being "under investigation" for a virus link, this is not the same as claiming an association actually exists. My understanding is that we now have some evidence that Alzheimer's is however associated with a high-cholesterol diet. If someone wishes to look elsewhere as well - like viruses or whatever - so what?

But if you really want "proof" of the association between viruses and disease, you'll have to go to the books and research that have it. If you don't go there, of course it's very likely you won't find it.

Unfortunately, we cannot realistically expect (yet) to find much of anything in a microbiology textbook about the influence of diet and lifestyle on health. It's just an unrealistic expectation. There will be lots of good stuff about the immune system though (for example little immunity beings that seek and destroy or gobble stuff up, etc.), but not much about how the immune system becomes stronger/weaker depending on diet and lifestyle. If we're lucky, there might be something about the relationship between dietary fiber and friendly intestinal bacteria.

It's not the case though that ignorance or neglect of one subject equates to ignorance in another. And, same thing, knowledge of one subject doesn't equate to knowledge of another.

Many microbiologists have an amazing and substantial knowledge about germs like viruses, etc., but are clueless about diet and lifestyle. Could be similar to many people having amazing and substantial knowledge about diet and lifestyle but knowing next to nothing about viruses and germs.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 09:29AM by suncloud.

<<<Viruses are similar to parasites (they require a host to reproduce), except that most virologists consider them to be "non-living".>>>

The Virus Myth

Let's use an analogy to further understand the virus rationale being foisted on us. Let's presume a flea loses its head. (Yes, its head!) For what is called a virus is a genome (genetic material). Genomes are to cellular mitochondria what heads are to fleas or other organisms. Now let's presume that a flea's head is about one billionth the size of an elephant-that's the size relationship Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology establishes of a virus to a cell.

In presenting the virus rationale we are asked to believe that a flea's head attaches itself to an elephant, injects itself into the elephant and takes command of the elephant! Mind you the flea head is dead. All so-called viruses (genomes) are dead. None are living. Why? Because to any thinking person, they're a fractionated part of what was a living organism. In short, the flea's head is a deadhead! But yet it can do things like take over an elephant. Upon taking over the elephant, it commands the elephant to reproduce its head-the elephant replicates the head thousands upon thousands of times. When the elephant has reproduced about 20,000 to 30,000 flea heads, it "explodes" and the flea heads are free to seek out other elephants and repeat the process. That's a lot for a deadhead to do!

Were you observant in the last paragraph? Did you catch on that 20,000 to 30,000 flea heads are only one five hundredths of one percent of the size of an elephant? That's like saying that, if you inject yourself with a fraction of an ounce of a substance, it will cause so much pressure inside you that you'll explode.

This all sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Yes, it certainly does! Yet that is precisely the rationale used by so-called medical science. Let's review that.

So-called viruses are nothing more than genomes. (The body, in losing about half a trillion cells a day, also loses about an average of 5,000 mitochondrial genomes per cell, a gross figure of about 2 1/2 quadrillion!) I repeat that genomes are tantamount to the head of animals-they are the brains for directing the protein-making, energy creating activities of a mitochondrion. To call the genome a microorganism is erroneous for an organism, micro or macro, must have a functional body in addition to the head.

We are asked to believe, according to the medical rationale, in obligate reproduction. That means that another organism is obligated to reproduce an alien organism (in this case, a piece of one) such as in the analogy postulated (an elephant being obligated to reproduce flea heads). Have you ever witnessed in all nature anything reproducing anything other than its own kind?

What do you think of reproduction where all the offspring are stillborn (dead)?

What do you think of a "science" that expects us to accept their statements that admittedly dead organic material (genomes) are capable of numerous actions including disease causation? Let's free ourselves of this scapegoat, mentality! Let's keep in mind that, even if true, it's totally irrelevant! Healthful living always produces health regardless of all the "malevolent little beasties" around. The sick and ailing almost invariably get well when they adopt healthful practices.

Let's keep in mind that when we discontinue the drugs and poisons, the body restores itself to the highest level of health possible. Let's also keep in mind that AIDS, so-called, is a result of drugs and other poisons.

The publicity and scare tactics of our commercial masters are designed to stampede us into the medical corral. Have you been suckered in? Will you continue to be?

A little bit of background for the discussion.

Some historical details:
Germ theory denialism

and a page about Antoine Béchamp:
Antoine Béchamp

Skeptic Harriet Hall talks about raw foodists:
“I Reject Your Reality” – Germ Theory Denial and Other Curiosities

Some interesting links there, eg:
TOXEMIA EXPLAINED By J. H. TILDEN, M. D.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

suncloud, or any other germ theory adherents....

when was the last time you will ill?
how many times are you sick per year?
what would you call the illness?
what do you say causes the illness?
if you don't get sick, did you get sick pre-raw?

The germ theory makes sense to people who have a state of health such that exposure to germs results in sepsis or other symptoms. Once a person has achieved a state of internal health such that exposure to germs does not result in unpleasant symptoms, it's easy to see that the opposing theory, that it's the terrain, not the germ, is the cause of disease.

By terrain, this is the internal terrain of the body. If the body is loaded with dead and dying cells, this is a great place for germs to flourish. On the other hand, a healthy body won't have this such a large number of dead or dying cells, and there is no place for germs to grow.

What causes most people to have so many dead and dying cells? The lifestyle habits as proposed by Tilden, that drain the body of energy such that the body cannot keep up with its internal housekeeping.

Hey John,

This was funny!: "In short, the flea's head is a deadhead!"

Actually though, as I understand it, the term "non-living" is not intended to mean "dead".

"Non-living" simply means that the virus doesn't quite fit all of the conventional definition of "living".

Here's from Microbiology, an introduction (italics and clarifications within parentheses are mine):

"The question of whether viruses are living organisms has an ambiguous answer. Life can be defined as a complex set of processes resulting from the actions of proteins specified by nucleic acids (DNA or RNA). The nucleic acids of living cells are in action all the time. Because viruses are inert outside living host cells, in this sense they are not considered to be living organisms. However, once viruses enter a host cell, the viral nucleic acids become active, and viral multiplication results. In this sense, viruses are alive when they multiply in the host cells they infect. Depending on one's viewpoint, a virus may be regarded as an exceptionally complex aggregation of nonliving chemicals, or as an exceptionally simple living microorganism...

"Viruses were originally distinguished from other infectious agents because they are especially small and because they are obligatory intracellular parasites - that is, they absolutely require living host cells in order to multiply. However, both of these properties are shared by certain small bacteria, such as some rickettsia...

"The truly distinctive features of viruses are now known to relate to their simple structural organization and their mechanism of multiplication. Accordingly, viruses are entities that

-Contain a single type of nucleic acid, either DNA or RNA.

-Contain a protein coat - sometimes itself enclosed by an envelope of lipids, proteins, and carbohydrates - that surrounds the nucleic acid (DNA or RNA).

-Multiply inside living cells by using the synthesizing machinery of the cell. ("Synthesizing machinery" refers to ribosomes, etc. that are normally used for reproduction of the host cells, but are used by the virus to reproduce the virus's own DNA/RNA).

-Cause the synthesis of specialized structures that can transfer the viral nucleic acid (viral DNA or RNA) to other cells."

-------------------------------------------------------

In other words, the DNA or RNA contained in the virus enters the host cell and uses the host cell's DNA/RNA synthesizing machinery (ribosomes, etc.) to reproduce and distribute the DNA/RNA of the virus. Ribosomes are normally used by our cells as a location where translation of DNA into amino acids (protein components) can occur. Components of the amino acids meet there, and the ribosomes assist in putting everything together. Viruses don't have their own ribosomes so they use the ribosomes of the host.

Just because a virus is very small, doesn't make this impossible at all. Viruses have to be very small, because DNA/RNA is very small. Very small entities (like DNA) can have tremendous impact.

Here's some history:

"In 1886, the Dutch chemist Adolf Mayer showed that tobacco mosaic disease (TMD) was transmissible from a diseased plant to a healthy plant. In 1892, in an attempt to isolate the cause of TMD, the Russian bacteriologist Dimitri Iwanowski filtered the sap of diseased plants through a porcelain filter that was designed to retain bacteria. He expected to find the microbe trapped in the filter; instead, he found that the infectious agent had passed through the minute pores of the filter. When he infected healthy plants with the filtered fluid, they contracted TMD. The first human disease associated with a filterable (ability to pass through filters) agent was yellow fever.

"One hundred years ago, researchers could not imagine sub-microscopic particles, and thus they described the infectious agent as contagium vivum fluidum - a contagious fluid. By the 1930s, scientists had begun using the word virus, the Latin word for poison, to describe these filterable agents. The nature of viruses however, remained elusive until 1935, when Wendell Stanley, an American chemist, isolated tobacco mosaic virus, making it possible for the first time to carry out chemical and structural studies on a purified virus. At about the same time, the invention of the electron microscope made it possible to see viruses."

Fresh, in answer to your questions:

I think I had some kind of cold or something for 2 days about 7 years ago. That was the last time. I'm a committed raw food vegan, and I'm sure this has something to do with my good health record.

As for the cause of my cold 7 years ago, I was working at a preschool at the time, and preschools are notorious for passing around germs. The other teachers were all much sicker around that same time period, plus other times as well during the two years I worked there. My immune system was strong enough to help me avoid any serious consequences, but not strong enough to avoid the cold completely.

More recently, I have worked in hospitals and clinics for the past 4 1/2 years as a volunteer and during rotations for school, including 4 days per week, 8 hrs. per day during my last semester. I was the only one to never get sick during all those years, despite patient visits and constant exposure to contamination from materials circulated from patient rooms into my department at the hospital.

Again, I personally attribute my good health record to a strong immune system built from the elements of my raw vegan diet, plus the properties of the diet to allow for constant elimination of potentially invasive material (germs). Regular exercise and occasional-to-intermittent fasting has helped in that regard as well.

Most diseases in the US are caused directly from diet, including diabetes, heart disease and worse, and science now readily admits it. It's not a secret. No debate there. I was painfully reminded of this everyday at the hospital and during clinic visits. The challenge is to use the evidence for human benefit, rather than for the continual exclusive reliance on harmful medications.

I like PCRM (Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine) because that's what they're doing, among other things. PCRM has just opened their first clinic in Washington DC. Vegans are moving forward. Raw vegan science is only at the very cusp. It's an exciting time, if we can shed some archaic beliefs in favor of taking more productive strides forward. How many lives have been saved by denying the existence of germs? It's not productive, and the evidence to support that stance is nonexistent.

Did I get sick pre-raw? Of course. Just like everyone else. I was sick a lot growing up, being raised on the 3 murderous Ms: Meat, Milk, and Medicine.

What can I say, except that none of this means that bacteria or viruses don't exist.

Fresh, do you know much about the immune system and the immune system response to viruses and bacteria? The strongest immune system can overcome many (but possibly not all) viral and bacterial attacks.

One way to look at it is that a raw food diet creates its own version of immune response that can work synergistically with other immunity devices provided by our biology at birth.

For people who don't believe in "germ theory" or in the action of viruses, etc., here's a question: Do you believe a human immune system exists, and that it has capabilities to destroy harmful microorganisms?

Rawgosia,

Thank you for the references.

Well, I have to go. I won't be back until at least after this Wednesday. I might start a post then about a relatively new science called "Nutrigenomics", which follows the discovery that diet influences expression of our genes, and we even pass that influence on to our offspring. The implications are potentially enormous for the merits of vegan/raw food lifestyle.

The truth - stranger and better than fiction.

Just saw Prana's post, and I agree.

I haven't seen evidence though yet that diet and lifestyle can be preventive 100% of the time in response to 100% of current and future germ species. (not to say that point was intended in prana's post)

For example, many animals in the wild, including herbivores, are susceptible to disease strains, and this has been true for millennia - including prior to the contamination of our environment with chemicals, etc.

I personally believe a raw food diet is the superior human diet, but I don't think it makes us immortal.

There's really nothing so special about a raw food diet. It's just the diet that most animals in world already follow.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 09:02PM by suncloud.

I agree with Prana. I do.

<<<For example, many animals in the wild, including herbivores, are susceptible to disease strains, and this has been true for millennia - including prior to the contamination of our environment with chemicals, etc.>>>

HEALTH & SURVIVAL
IN THE 21st CENTURY
ROSS HORNE

CHAPTER 5
Germs and Viruses

...

Maybe a better illustration of susceptibility and unsusceptibility is given by Sir Albert Howard in his book The Role of Insects and Fungi in Agriculture. In the livestock industry, foot and mouth disease is considered so deadly that entire herds are destroyed and burned once the disease appears in any of the animals to prevent it spreading to other farms. But Sir Albert had this to say:

'For twenty one years [1910-31] I was able to study the reaction of well-fed animals to epidemic diseases, such as rinderpest, foot-and-mouth disease, septicemia and so forth, which frequently devastated the countryside. None of my animals were segregated, none were inoculated; they frequently came in contact with diseased stock. No case of infectious disease occurred. The reward of well-nourished protoplasm was a very high degree of disease resistance; which might even be described as immunity.'

***In his book Soil, Grass and Cancer (Crosby Lockwood, London, 1959), French author Andre Voisin, biochemist and agriculturist, demonstrated how health and disease are related to the soil via the nutritional quality of the crops produced thereon. In regard to foot and mouth disease in cattle, Voisin quoted German and French data showing the disease hardly ever occurred in granite and sandy regions, but that sometimes in soils high in lime it affected up to eighty per cent of animals. The susceptibility to the disease Voisin ascribed to copper deficiency, which prevented the animals producing enough catalase, the predominant protective enzyme of the immune system.

Similar examples of lowered catalase in both humans and animals that permitted otherwise harmless germs to act pathogenically to produce different disease symptoms were given, and as the title of the book indicates, the importance of trace minerals in the prevention of cancer was emphasized.

In regard to tuberculosis Voisin said:

'The lungs of each one of us are inhabited by millions of tuberculosis bacilli, which we manage to accommodate quite well. They live there very peacefully without delivering frenzied attacks against our cells. Why then, do they suddenly thrust themselves upon one of our organs (most often the lungs) and make us tuberculosis sufferers?'

Voisin then went on to demonstrate how defective nutrition is the underlying problem, the milk from tuberculous cows having no bearing on the matter because the human victim's bacillus is already present, with or without the milk. As for the tuberculous cows, they do not have to be destroyed; like their human counterparts all they need is better pastures and conditions.

That healthy humans are every bit as disease resistant as healthy farm animals is borne out by an extract from the book Immune for Life by Arnold Fox, MD, of Los Angeles, former Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of California, Irvine:

'Many years ago, as a resident in Internal Medicine at Los Angeles County Hospital, I was in charge of the adult infectious-disease ward. For ten to fifteen hours a day, I was exposed to just about every infectious illness you can imagine. These patients had tuberculosis, meningitis, the very deadly septicemia and other dangerous diseases. They coughed and sneezed on me; I got their blood, sweat and even feces on my hands. But I didn't 'catch' any of their diseases. My 'doctor within' kept me in perfect health.

Some time later I was transferred from the infectious-disease ward and into surgery. Months later I came down with meningitis, a potentially deadly infection of the covering of the brain. I hadn't been near anyone with meningitis who could have given' me the disease. What happened was that I was working double shifts, going to every class and lecture offered, and moonlighting as well. I had run my immune system down to the ground.'

The experience of Dr Fox is not unique, being common to all doctors, nurses and other hospital staff all around the world, and the great wonder of medicine is that Pasteur's germ theory of disease holds on in peoples' minds the way it does."

>>>At about the same time, the invention of the electron microscope made it possible to see viruses.>>>

Here is my File Preview for my file on Microscopes:

…File Preview…
• The Rife microscope was invented in the 1930s by the doctor whose name it bears, Dr. Royal R. Rife. It can magnify 60 x 10 times, and Rife used it to examine living blood.
• …Morris Fishbein of the AMA made Rife an offer which he refused: ‘Turn your invention over to us in return for our recognition and a royalty, and if you don’t, we will make sure that it never sees the light of day.
• The belief in viruses came about almost 40 years before the technology existed to see at the submicroscopic level using an electron microscope. Any first-year molecular biology student will tell you that electron microscopes are very poor instruments that produce black-and-white shadows of images on computer-printed electron micrographs that must be interpreted by trained professionals before anyone knows what they are. When you look at an electron micrograph, it's not like looking at a snapshot; it's like looking at black blobs on a white sheet of paper.
• Modern electron microscopes instantly kill everything beneath them, viewing only the mummified remains and debris.
• Since modern electron microscopes instantly kill everything beneath them, viewing only the mummified remains and debris, than no one can claim that some Viruses are alive. In other words, no one has ever had the technology to see a Live Virus, except Dr. Royal R. Rife and he had a machine to kill them, supposedly.
• This interference was, in effect, a third, longer wave which fell into the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. This was how Rife made invisible microbes visible without killing them, a feat which today's electron microscopes cannot duplicate.
• So, the debate about the life cycle of viruses was resolved in favor of those who never saw it (even modern electron microscopes show frozen images, not the life cycle of viruses in process).
• Concerning viruses, there is much more to the story. Viruses are said to invade living cells in order to force reproduction. When living cells eat dead cells (as they do all the time in the bloodstream), it could easily appear as though a virus is entering into a living cell. When living cells eat, it is known as phagocytosis. The process of phagocytosis, then, has been misidentified as a virus entering a cell. Keep in mind that no one sees this process in live action. It must all be interpreted on a series of electron micrographs, which are computer-printed shadows of images on black-and-white paper. It takes experts to read these micrographs, and even the experts have admitted that they have mistaken dead cells for viruses on many occasions. Couldn't they have also mistaken phagocytosis for a virus entering into a living cell? For what it's worth, viruses do not cause disease. They don't even exist. Viral diseases such as smallpox, AIDS, HPS, the flu, and even the common cold are not caused by viruses, and are, therefore, not contagious.
• It is simply a piece or strand of either RNA or DNA. And even of itself, a virus can’t “do” anything.
• In addition it is so tiny that it can only be seen under an electron microscope. It is much smaller than bacteria, which can only be seen in the regular microscope. So viruses cannot be isolated when you make a viral vaccine. All that can be isolated is the tissue, whether it’s human tissue or animal tissue that is believed to have been infected by that specific virus that you’re trying to isolate.
…End of File Preview…

thanks suncloud, I'm still working this all out and just investigating all angles. yes i have studied immune system.

part of this is how they are studying the "viruses" with electron microscopes and the limitations of that, as jr posted. I don't see how they can make all these claims - they are isolating tissue in culture in the lab and indirectly observing effects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 11:26PM by fresh.

also suncloud, it seems like you are saying that you were ill because of a germ (microorganism), and yet you acknowledge that poor food choices cause disease.

do you not think that disease is toxemia at all? only germs?

by toxemia I mean food residue building up and needing to be cleansed out, like fats, salts, etc.