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Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 27, 2015 07:00PM

I noticed some young men on the forum are keen on psychoactive plants. I don't want to rain on your parade, but when I have time, I will share some videos and links that hopefully will make you much more careful, especially when you share about these things with others.

The first video is about mad raw honey. Did you see it, Tezcal? Note how one man gets really sick and how he was so lucky that someone was able to carry him out of the forest before a bear or tiger got him that night. The lesson from this video is that some people are not prepared when they accidentally overdose and are at the mercy of others. Sometimes bystanders are helpful, but sometimes it doesn't always work out that way.

Powerful video for vegans who care about doing no harm.

[www.youtube.com]

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 28, 2015 05:39AM

This video is of a Yanomamo shaman who describes his initiation as a shaman, his spirit possession, his use of psychoactive plants and some of the violence he witnessed of other inebriated shamans and hatred he cultivated, and subsequent abandonment of those practices.

[www.youtube.com]

Plant medicine by itself is not bad, but some rituals and negative mindsets accompanying it can be.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 28, 2015 06:04AM

Huichol Indians are legally allowed to harvest peyote in Mexico with good reason. They harvest it sustainably without killing the plant. They consider future generations and how much will be available in the years and decades to come. They do penance, repentance and purification as a group before harvesting the plants. Their confessions revealed they weren't saints, but at least they had a conscience and cared about goodness in the film.

Part 1

[www.youtube.com]

Part 2

[www.youtube.com]

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Ayahuasca fakes and contraindications
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 28, 2015 06:37AM

There are so many variables with ayahuasca!

This article shows how some fake shamans are using something called Toe` to pass off as ayahuasca, and it sounds incredibly toxic:

[www.mensjournal.com]

I cut and pasted the following two important paragraphs about Ayahuasca from the erowid vault:

[www.erowid.org]

The primary risks associated with ayahuasca are the inclusion of a MAOI as a definitional component of the brew and the fact that there is no single recipe for ayahuasca and admixture plants can include any of a wide variety of psychoactives including Datura or Brugmansia. MAOIs can be dangerous because they inhibit an enzyme important in the metabolic breakdown of many foods and drugs. The combination of MAOIs with certain drugs, particularly stimulants, can lead to dangerous or potentially fatal medical situations.

Traditional ayahuasca use involves a complex set of pre-ceremony dietary guidelines that exclude many foods and modern shamans require that participants stop using most pharmaceuticals (even anti-malarial and anti-diarrhea drugs) in order to take ayahuasca with them. Additionally, the strength/potency of ayahuasca brews varies from batch to batch, which can impact the risks related to contraindicated combinations.

Finally, the term "ayahuasca" is sometimes used for "pharmahuasca" or blends of pure or extracted chemicals combined to mimic the effects of the traditional ayahuasca brews. The health risks associated with all drugs are dose-dependent and pharmahuasca-type ayahuascas can easily include much higher dose levels than plant-based ayahuascas and are often consumed by less experienced self-experimenters and often without experienced sitter/guide.

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Marijuana syndrome
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 29, 2015 05:00AM

[www.marijuana-syndromes.com]

This website covers the side effects that occur with prolonged marijuana use. John Mini, an acupuncturist, has detailed "marijuana syndrome" that occurs from the hot and dry nature of marijuana. I actually had to take a class in this for my continuing education, to learn how to balance out the syndrome.

Dr. William Courtney, MD has discussed how juicing heirloom varities that are low in THC, high in CBD can have healing benefits and such plants are not supposed to be psychoactive in their low THC and immature state. So the marijuana syndrome occurs from using heated, THC-rich cannabis regularly (even cold-extracted is not benign, if THC is high.)

The following is what John Mini wrote on his website:

It’s All in the Name...

Why does marijuana have side effects? The whole story is contained in the Chinese name for marijuana.

Marijuana’s name in Chinese is Huo Ma, which means Fire Hemp. They call marijuana Huo Ma because of its fiery nature.

What’s a fiery nature? It means that if you take marijuana it can have the same effect on you as if you were exposed to fire. If you expose yourself a little bit, it will just warm you up. A little bit more, and you’ll start drying out. Even more, and you’ll begin burning, and so on.

Marijuana can starts a kind of a fire inside of you when you take it. This fire takes a definite progression through your body and mind if you expose yourself to it again and again. This is the progression described by the marijuana syndromes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 05:02AM by Tai.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: tezcal ()
Date: January 29, 2015 10:49PM

i'll try to watch these videos when i have a chance. i will say that yes, there is a lot of fake shamans out there who take advantage of gullible westerners who seem to take their image of a shaman from the carlos castaneda books, or mythological healers. most healers in the amazon don't call themselves shamans or sorcerers, but rather 'curanderos' or even 'vegetalistas.' true healers consider themselves normal people, not some exalted member of society, whose job is to heal much like a neighborhood doctor would.


the training to become a true healer with plants can be very arduous in different tribes. i've read of some healers who abstain from sex, water and food for an entire year, instead only ingesting ayahuasca and a mysterious root which seems to resemble a potato but has been kept secret from the west for an entire year, for example.


but yeah, because of this influx in interest from the west the previous twenty years, a lot of charlatans see ways to make quick, and lots of money presenting themselves and some almighty sorcerer who lives between two worlds. one must remember the economic situation some of these people live in, and the fact that they're doing this because the western tourists show up money in hand wanting some transcendental experience.



its a good thing there's a ton of information and recourses on the internet regarding travel to peru.


dmt nexus, ayahuasca.com, reset.me are all attempting to provide legitimate unbiased information for those who seek it. there's been books written on the subject, and one can easily find another person who has had good and bad experiences to provide insight so one doesn't go blindly to a healer who uses toe, or datura, wihtout knowledge of how to use it. yes, datura is probably the most dangerous psychoactive substance, i've read of people who had 'trips' for five to ten years, and sadly many who never come out of their experience and live in a psyche ward their entire lives. why? usually some dumb kid who finds this thing, which grows abundantly in many peoples lawns, and decides to have a trip. there are shamans that know how to use this plant, but have done so with years of training. i would NEVER recommend anyone even touching one of these plants though. just look at erowid.org under the trip experiences to see how truly horrifying it can be for the uninitiated.


as for possession and the like, i can't really speak on that. its hard to say, maybe intent goes a long way. in the west seeking out these medicines for hedonistic purposes may attract malevolent beings, i wouldn't doubt that. but it's all about intent. water can kill someone in excessive amounts, but that doesn't make water evil or bad. i don't think ayahuasca is inherently bad, but because their is ill intent or even ignorance, being unprepared, harm can be done.


nevertheless, ayahuasca is something ancient which has been used for at least 20,000 years last i remember, but more than likely much longer than that. something which has wistood the test of time can't be too bad. but as with many other things, the modern west has managed to bring out the worst in something in twenty years which had been sacred for thousands and thousands. lets not forget there are legal churches in brazil which use ayahuasca as a sacramet, santo daime the most popular. i urge anyone who is interested to not be afraid, but do read read read and research extensively all aspects of the experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 10:53PM by tezcal.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: January 30, 2015 10:57PM

Hi Tezcal,
I think you have a pretty healthy outlook, but the reason I created this thread is because of comments like this:

Re: can raw foods heal my mental illness?
Posted by: jtprindl ()
Date: January 23, 2015 02:31AM

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you are lucky if you can cure your condition with
> diet alone
>
> for those who have war time PTSD - no amount of
> salads will cure them


Ayahuasca and psychedelic mushrooms could though smiling smiley

Tai:
If people were aware of the many things that have gone wrong or could go wrong on "bad trips", they wouldn't just mention this in a thread written by a person suffering from psychosis. When people are aware of the inherent dangers, they would talk about these things with much more caution and responsibility. One of the most common mistakes is improper dosage.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: jtprindl ()
Date: January 30, 2015 11:01PM

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Tezcal,
> I think you have a pretty healthy outlook, but the
> reason I created this thread is because of
> comments like this:
>
> Re: can raw foods heal my mental illness?
> Posted by: jtprindl ()
> Date: January 23, 2015 02:31AM
>
> la_veronique Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > you are lucky if you can cure your condition
> with
> > diet alone
> >
> > for those who have war time PTSD - no amount of
> > salads will cure them
>
>
> Ayahuasca and psychedelic mushrooms could though
> smiling smiley
>
> Tai:
> If people were aware of the many things that have
> gone wrong or could go wrong on "bad trips", they
> wouldn't just mention this in a thread written by
> a person suffering from psychosis. When people
> are aware of the inherent dangers, they would talk
> about these things with much more caution and
> responsibility. One of the most common mistakes
> is improper dosage.


Well that's a given - proper environment, dosage, and company is extremely important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 11:01PM by jtprindl.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: HH ()
Date: January 31, 2015 12:09AM

I'm glad to see someone countering the horrible advice given in the psychosis thread. All I can do is cringe when I look at that.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Tezcal,
> I think you have a pretty healthy outlook, but the
> reason I created this thread is because of
> comments like this:
>
> Re: can raw foods heal my mental illness?
> Posted by: jtprindl ()
> Date: January 23, 2015 02:31AM
>
> la_veronique Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > you are lucky if you can cure your condition
> with
> > diet alone
> >
> > for those who have war time PTSD - no amount of
> > salads will cure them
>
>
> Ayahuasca and psychedelic mushrooms could though
> smiling smiley
>
> Tai:
> If people were aware of the many things that have
> gone wrong or could go wrong on "bad trips", they
> wouldn't just mention this in a thread written by
> a person suffering from psychosis. When people
> are aware of the inherent dangers, they would talk
> about these things with much more caution and
> responsibility. One of the most common mistakes
> is improper dosage.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: jtprindl ()
Date: January 31, 2015 12:40AM

[www.naturalnews.com] - New study shows magic mushrooms repair brain damage caused by extreme trauma

"A new study by The University of South Florida has found that low doses of the active ingredient in magic mushrooms repairs brain damage caused by extreme trauma, offering renewed hope to millions of sufferers of PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder).

The study confirms previous research by Imperial College London, that psilocybin, a naturally occurring compound present in "shrooms", stimulates new brain cell growth and erases frightening memories. Mice conditioned to fear electric shock when hearing a noise associated with the shock "simply lost their fear", says Dr. Juan Sanchez-Ramos, who co-authored the study. A low dose of psilocybin led them to overcome "fear conditioning" and the freeze response associated with it faster than the group of mice on Ketanserin (a drug that counteracts the receptor that binds psilocybin in the brain) and a control group on saline."


If you've done everything else - you're completely nourished, detoxified, engage in physical activity, use high-quality targeted supplementation, meditate, etc., and still have PTSD or some form of emotional trauma, psychedelics are definitely worth looking into.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 01, 2015 01:00AM

Tai: thanks for the excellent thread,l shall read and listen to the videos with great interest right now.

Yes, psychoactive plants are best avoided, and a spiritual master gives warning of the dangers. The key is to not rely on plants to do the spiritual connection, the key is to be able to do it ourselves. Mankind is created perfect so we don't need to go through other avenues to get the connection.

Sometimes a delicate mechanism in the brain can be triggered and psychosis can be the long term result.

People with no experience of going into the other dimensions under their own power are really asking for trouble when doing this because they don't know whgat they are doing or what they are experiencing so they can be deceived by the dark spirits they encounter appearing as divine beings.

I have known people who take these plants and meditate, yet these people lie, have ego and worship money just as much as they ever did. I say these people are not tapping into a higher sopurce, they are tapping into riff raff in the cosmos up to no good.

Some people say these plants stimulate artistic abilities. I say, learn to become creative yourself without the help of these types of plants.

www.thesproutarian.com

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 01, 2015 02:25AM

The dark side of psychoactive plant medicine

It is a subject l rarely discuss with anyone in much detail, but l will mention some of the negative effects of certain plants that will be un-named. They can indeed draw very dark entities and one can become trapped unless they ask the higher powers of good for help. Here are some things that can happen:

* people can see glowing fluorescent satanic inverted pentagrams
* people can take on a partial appearance of a devil like creature
* people can see monsters walking the Earth from other dimensions, some of these monsters can be fat, short, scaley and covered in slime and communicate with squeeking voices. I think these things are all around us, but best not to experience that because it will have the potential to make people go crazy because it is too much for many human brains to handle.
* objects glow bright red in the dark and have a strong satanic feeling about them.
* a bright sunny day turns black and stormy within seconds and the Earth takes on a sinister meaning that barely resembles the Earth at all. The sky is pitch black and the sun is just a bright red ball in the sky.

Things can be unpredictable and people can end up in bad places, but it can get worse than that. Many good things can also happen like travelling all over the world and visiting places invisible and travelling into the past, speeding up time and many mind blowing things, but avoid it. Long term use of these plants is also said to diminish one's spiritual abilities over time.

These plants give us abilities on the cheap. Imo it could be satan's temptation.

And yes, the shaman was correct in that there are some spirits which hate everybody. You DON'T want to run into those astral beings because they are savage and hideous, and if one doesn't have the right protection one may be very negatively infested by them. Hidious monsters are everywhere. You don't know what evil and hate really is until certain things are experienced....these things are the worst of the worst,and when one criticises the Church and authorities and provides remedy from these systems these beings will come after you. Why? Because these dark entities are in the people who run the system and they will try to attack anyone who questions the physical beings they inhabit on the Earth.

Why do l say certain things, and how do l know? I won't say...l just say to take warning. Lots of things can't be said, only warnings can be issued.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2015 02:38AM by The Sproutarian Man.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Tai ()
Date: February 01, 2015 04:39AM

In the class I took with John Mini, LAc, he says that he had to help a few cases of spirit possession in marijuana users. I was floored because it was a normal acupuncture class and there were atheists present. But there were enough people who know about spirits who needed to know this. His opinion is that a person needs to already have severe problems and is ready for that to happen and then the marijuana can just facilitate that, but does NOT cause that to happen. So, I do agree with Tezcal about intent.

In the case with the yanomamo shaman, it looks like spirit possession was a part of their process, so the herbs just aided it but likely didn't cause it. The cause was their intention and practice of using spirits.

As an herbalist, I think psychoactive plants could help humans during times of extreme injury and severe pain. Hua Tuo, an ancient Chinese doctor used a cannabis medicine for pain relief during surgery, or so the tale goes. If we didn't have modern pain medication, when someone is severely wounded, it might help for a person to take their mind off of the intensity of the problem (in theory, but history shows humans in general never know when to put a lid on it). But in saying this, I am not advocating anyone to go do this. I am just saying how they could be used MEDICINALLY but this does not support the way they are often used by people seeking "trips". CBD is now being used in conjunction with standard toxic pain meds to reduce the amount of pain meds needed, which does take a load off the liver. CBD is not psychoactive, but is usually present with small amounts of THC, which is psychoactive, because it is a plant extract, not an isolate.

Mother nature offered humans remedies. It's up to humans to use them responsibly in the proper context and not otherwise, due to their emotional attachments. If people could stay focused purely on the actual need at hand and not on their desire, then there would be far fewer tragedies in the psychedelic world.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 01, 2015 06:59AM

Quote

If people could stay focused purely on the actual need at hand and not on their desire

This is also a very good recipe for spiritual attainment smiling smiley

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 01, 2015 09:15AM

Wasn't going to post this, but l will. The post has been ready to make public for about 5 hours. May sound pretty out there to many people.

the real Heaven and the hell worlds

Still listening to the shaman speak. It is interesting when people talk about how the beautiful the real heaven is. It is supposed to be made from gold and diamonds and chrystals that emit a bright glowing light for many miles, but these beautiful stones are not what is on Earth, the stones in heaven are said to be the real stones and the diamonds and gold on Earth is low quality rubbish that we have been deceived into thinking are beautiful and precious. It is joked that the gold on Earth is only suitable for the footpaths of heaven...similar to how we view concrete. Many of the devine beings in heaven have no intention of ever leaving heaven and coming to help lower worlds because the transition into a body and taking on of karma is a very painful transition and the memories of heaven are too good to want to leave.


Then there are those devine beings that volunteeer to guard the gates of hell so no beings can ever escape. Talk about having a terrible job to do. It is said that the road to hell is really easy and the gates are wide and everyone is welcome, but the road to heaven is very narrow and hard to get into.

Now it is said that satan's servants watching over the hell beings have broken satan's/God's golden rule and have taken the punishment and torture too far and now deals have had to be done with heaven to remedy the breaking of the cosmic rules. It is supposed to be a really big deal because it has never happened before....the workers in hell have always respected the rules, but now they have sunken to new levels of darkness and lowness and it looks like souls may be completely extinguished.

Yes, there are lots of hell worlds and lots of heavens, but only one real heaven. The Bemuda Triangle disappearances are said to be portals to hell worlds. Portals to hell are all over the planet and people disappear all the time. Makes me wonder why the rulers of the world don't go down these portals.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 01, 2015 02:19PM

Quote

Wasn't going to post this, but l will.

I'm glad you did. It's certainly food for thought.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 02, 2015 12:58AM

How we can greatly improve our chances of getting into heaven fast

This is what one high level spiritual master has said. IF one is completely focused and doesn’t buy into the distractions of idle chatter and entertainment, and instead focused on God and does powerful mediation and is vegan, a person can reach heaven within one lifetime if they are very focussed, BUT this can only occur if the `sound’ and `light’ meditation is used and only then on the condition that one goes into very deep meditation. If one is vegan and meditates outside in nature in daylight and meditates powerfully for at least 4 hours per day or at least 8 hours each night one can do it within 60 years apparently, but they must be good people. If one is vegetarian the process will take a lot longer, and if one is breatharian it will be 30% faster (on average) than for a vegan (but breatharianism is not so desirable if a master is chosen to surpass the 5th level). If you do Zen or other meditations that don’t include the sound it may take thousands of years if one meditates many hours per day…this is the understanding l got from studying under the master. Getting to heaven is not easy, one must not worship the system and get distracted. No-one could ever imagine how good the real heaven is, and when high level beings come down to low level worlds like Earth they find it very hard to deal with, and very few will volunteer to come down. It is also said that warzones on Earth are like some of the hell worlds…people live in fear and no-one feels safe and people try to hide from scary folks who have nothing but bad intensions.

Raw veganism and colours in the diet is not so important when one does powerful meditation and is enlightened because one accesses abundant light that a raw food diet cannot compare to (my experience), and meditation also gives abundant colours into the body that raw food diets can’t compare with (my experience). Ethical vegetarians who do powerful meditation will do far better than raw vegans and breatharians who don’t meditate because they access a level of light and colour and frequency that can’t be matched any other way apparently. When you do powerful meditation for many hours per day you can also obtain a glow that the best raw food vegan diets can’t give you, and you can also greatly reduce sleep and be very high energy. The whites of the eyes can also change colour to a blue tint when one meditates a lot (I have had that happen on various occasions).

On some planets you have highly evolved beings who spend much of their time meditating on the sound and light. The sound is extremely powerful that is feels like one is on fire and becomes painful at times, and people can jerk around because of the intense energy. If a meat eater did my meditation heir would die very quickly because the energy produced would burn them out very quickly.

The sound and light covers everything including any meditation that involves breathing despite the sound and light not including any breathing exercises. Meditating through the pineal gland is very limited and progress is going to be very slow.

I really need to stop doing so much research and try to mainly finish my website in coming months so l can then focus on meditation much more. I have enough info to show people that sprouting is a good idea and how to construct a diet, l just need to re-write it so it is much better and then call it quits. it is up to people to do as they need. All l want to do is answer questions once per week, do a series of interviews and mainly leave the forums. I don’t want to be in the public eye much, all l want to do is meditate at every spare moment. I want to do 5 hours per day if l can because l do so good when doing 5 – 6 hours. 2.5 hours never seems enough, one really kicks onto a high level when doing at least 5 hours of the most powerful meditation. I have paid a HEAVY price promoting the sproutarian diet and l must begin to look after my own spiritual needs much better than l have been.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 01:04AM by The Sproutarian Man.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 02, 2015 01:35AM

Quote

I really need to stop doing so much research and try to mainly finish my website in coming months so l can then focus on meditation much more. I have enough info to show people that sprouting is a good idea and how to construct a diet, l just need to re-write it so it is much better and then call it quits. it is up to people to do as they need. All l want to do is answer questions once per week, do a series of interviews and mainly leave the forums. I don’t want to be in the public eye much, all l want to do is meditate at every spare moment. I want to do 5 hours per day if l can because l do so good when doing 5 – 6 hours. 2.5 hours never seems enough, one really kicks onto a high level when doing at least 5 hours of the most powerful meditation. I have paid a HEAVY price promoting the sproutarian diet and l must begin to look after my own spiritual needs much better than l have been.

I have spent much of today thinking about the same thing in regards to myself. Most of my recent posts have been on spiritual topics and not health or diet, and the reason for that is because I am dwelling in and focusing on the spiritual more than I ever have in my life and it is amazing. I don't want to talk about health or diet, I don't want to get into debates with people about health or diet, and I certainly don't want to go looking up various studies and doing lots of health research because when I do these things my attention is drawn back to the physical and it is not a good feeling. I only used to think that I understood what people meant when they said that conversation was to be avoided at all costs, but now I truly understand...anything regarding earthly matters draws the attention from the spiritual heights back down to the dead world of things, and you lose the spiritual consciousness very quickly.

When I focus on the spiritual I am full of energy and enthusiasm and peace and bliss, but when my attention is drawn back to the material life becomes mundane again. Life is truly magical when you live in the spiritual, and I want that feeling 24/7!!!!!!


I can only imagine what life will be like when I have 'the light' again...it must be too good to be true.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 02, 2015 01:39AM

Quote

Meditating through the pineal gland is very limited and progress is going to be very slow.

I'm not sure I understand this, isn't the light seen through the pineal gland?

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 02, 2015 02:02AM

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meditating through the pineal gland is very
> limited and progress is going to be very slow.
>
> I'm not sure I understand this, isn't the light
> seen through the pineal gland?


Yes, but it mainly creates wisdom, and it is not guaranteed to elevate one quickly. The sound greatly enhances the light and also elevates one quickly.

I have spent time only doing the light and the meditation benefits are only a shadow of what the sound and light provides when combined.

When you talk to many experienced meditators who have done a variety of meditation methods, all have said that sound and light is much more powerful. All l suggest to people is to find a master who offers sound and light, there are various masters who do offer this, but not too many. If it is your destiny you will meet a master who will provide sound and light, but most people will never be given sound and light because the master will tell them they are not ready. Also, if things are stopping you from meeting a master it obviously means it is not your time yet.

All l do is plant seeds in people. If they want to germinate the spiritual seed and are ready they will, but it is up to them what they want to do. With many people l will mention the sound and light and talk about certain things in private, but then l will never mention it again. I don't care if hardly anyone wants to do the sound and light that l recommend, l only plant seeds in those who l see as getting close to achieving some level of enlightenment.

Living Food, you are banging right on the door of enlightenment and l hope you ask the higher benevolent beings to give you it. I feel this lifetime is your time to get out of the jail cell and to really become alive. I am not saying to study under my master, l say to seek enlightenment because you are sooo ready. I no longer mention who my master is because l don't want people to think l have an agenda, l just say to seek the sound and light or at least ask some high level being to open the pineal gland.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 02, 2015 02:24AM

I feel 100% certain that I will receive enlightenment within this lifetime, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever about that anymore. Even without enlightenment I seem to be able to tap into the cosmic consciousness at times, and oftentimes now when I post here I hardly think very much at all...everything just flows. And then there are times when I go to post here and am distracted or doing too many things at once and the post isn't worth the time it takes to read it, so I know it's not me coming up with all these ideas LOL.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 02, 2015 02:28AM

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have spent much of today thinking about the same
> thing in regards to myself. Most of my recent
> posts have been on spiritual topics and not health
> or diet, and the reason for that is because I am
> dwelling in and focusing on the spiritual more
> than I ever have in my life and it is amazing. I
> don't want to talk about health or diet, I don't
> want to get into debates with people about health
> or diet,


YES YES YES!!! I feel exactly the same. I would dearly love to not talk about diet ever again or to post on any diet forums, but l still need to help people.



> and I certainly don't want to go looking
> up various studies and doing lots of health
> research because when I do these things my
> attention is drawn back to the physical and it is
> not a good feeling.


YES YES YES!!! I feel EXACTLY the same. I dislike having to buy into manmade science and quote and post it all the time (it's not pure truth, only relative truth) and goes against everything l stand for, BUT l must do it to help others.




>I only used to think that I
> understood what people meant when they said that
> conversation was to be avoided at all costs, but
> now I truly understand...anything regarding
> earthly matters draws the attention from the
> spiritual heights back down to the dead world of
> things, and you lose the spiritual consciousness
> very quickly.


I am sick of having to talk, l only want to talk when something absolutely important is needed because most talk is not worth hearing and is a waste of our time. I am not perfect with this because l do some idle chatter on this forum, but lam determined to get my act togeather and stop.

I have a really big burn to get back into long meditation, because in the current scheme of things that's all that matters to me.


>
> When I focus on the spiritual I am full of energy
> and enthusiasm and peace and bliss, but when my
> attention is drawn back to the material life
> becomes mundane again. Life is truly magical when
> you live in the spiritual, and I want that feeling
> 24/7!!!!!!



YES YES YES!!! Materialism and the system represents death, and when people become awakened they will realise how little the physical world has to offer and will draw away from it.

I don't want to read health books, l don't want to read law books, l don't want to read health studies because it is all the same old stuff. I am eating my sprouted food and meditating and that is all l need.

>
>
> I can only imagine what life will be like when I
> have 'the light' again...it must be too good to be
> true.


It IS too good to be true, actually it is farrr to good to be true. I pinch myself everyday and feel the luckiest man alive. I still find it hard to believe and l feel free at last. If you don't have the light you will remain in jail and will oblivous to almost everything, so people can only very partially cover the void by reading and listening to others experiences who do have the light. The difference between light and no light is worlds apart when one lives a good life....not having the light is like not being a real person....you have a body and a spirit but everything is locked away so people are like wandering vagabonds who need to look to others to get some spiritual direction/input in their life.

People criticise me because l don't read spiritual books, but why would l waste my time reading about other people's experiences when l can meditate and experience my own journey. I don't care if people can levitate and go to heaven (it's common knowledge) and see aliens and angels etc...we can all do that, so what is the big deal??? Lets stop talking about it and reading about it and actually do it! I can understand why most people without the light are interested in these things, but people with the light don't need to dwell on these things anymore because the things written in spritual books becomes their everyday reality. We grow into this life of light and it doesn't become a big deal anymore because it is the ultimate reality.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 02:32AM by The Sproutarian Man.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 02, 2015 02:55AM

After doing powerful 5 - 6 hour meditation, all you want to do is go up to anybody and hug them and tell them you love them (of course l don't do that, but l feel like it), and the sound is largely responsible for that, it makes you buzz beyond belief. You dare not try and hurt any bugs etc. After doing 10 hours of meditation abilities open right up and a strong connection happen to all types of things....the awareness of the invisible is incredible. I couldn't imagine what some of these masters who meditate 20 hours per day must experience, but it must be beyond comprehension to most average enlightened people.

When you get the light you will be reborn again if you keep disciplined. We become our real selves when we feed off the light and fear melts away because the light is all we need. No more fears of death and losing all material assets, and you certainly don't care what people think of you or wish to argue with them. Sometimes l will enter a debate online here for some fun, but l need to quit that nonsense and grow up. People who are meant to come across certain knowledge will do so, so it is not my place to try and convince anyone of anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 02:59AM by The Sproutarian Man.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 02, 2015 02:58AM

You're getting me so fired up right now I feel like going and running a marathon!

When I read your posts about meditation and the sound and light all I can think is I want the sound, I want the light, and I want them NOW!!!! Of course I know that it will happen when it is supposed to, but boy do those posts get me excited...fires me up and gives me those heavenly aspirations stronger than ever.

Your posts on sproutarianism did the same thing to me 3 years ago, and your posts on spiritualism do it to me know but to an even greater degree. So much excitement I feel like my head my explode smiling smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 03:10AM by Living Food.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 02, 2015 03:06AM

Good! You are meant to hear it, that is why you are here. smiling smiley I don't need to drag people here and force things onto them, the higher forces will guide people to other people who can help them get their start. We are all here to help people, and l am here to help people who are ready to get on the sprouts and live the big spiritual game....l am not the guru with the knowledge, l just lead people in a good direction and plug them into sources and get them thinking about seeking enlightenment. No glory for me (only hard work),l just do the dog's body work because l want people to have what they deserve. Got tears in my eyes now.

Now...l don't naturally want to pour out love to all strangers and hug them and tell them l love them when l don't meditate....I only want to do that after long meditations, BUT it makes me think of all these high level worlds where beings meditate on sound and light and are naturally like that. It tells me that if we meditate long enough and powerfully enough that we can naturally become like that and become high level.

Forget the love and hugs rubbish posted online by raw gurus, prove it by living it. Talk is cheap, actions speak volumes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 03:14AM by The Sproutarian Man.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Date: February 02, 2015 03:22AM

30 minute meditation sessions are not enough to do much of anything...things only start getting warmed up after 30 minutes. One must learn to do long sessions if one is to get the most out of a meditation session because it can go deep.

Learning to settle a wandering mind and do long sessions takes effort at first, AND people with high level jobs in the system or run large businesses are at a great disadvantage because they have lots of responsibility and worries because they still love the system. The people with simple lives do much better because they can focus much better.

World leaders = doomed in mosr cases, they would never be able to focus enough in meditation because they would have too many worries. Worry is a waste of emotion, it is silly, but it is a product of people living in the system.

On another note, even when loved ones get sick, you never worry because that serves no purpose except to block the mind for trying to find solutions. All you can do is your best to help. Sometimes people will get sick and nothing can be done because it is karma based, but remember that the soul lives forever and that is all that really matters at the end of the day. A body is just a suit and we do get new ones up until a certain point, so don't worry. People who love the system think the body is the be all and end all, but the system people don't know who they are yet because they don't know what the soul is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 03:30AM by The Sproutarian Man.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: tezcal ()
Date: February 02, 2015 03:25AM

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Yes, psychoactive plants are best avoided, and a
> spiritual master gives warning of the dangers. The
> key is to not rely on plants to do the spiritual
> connection, the key is to be able to do it
> ourselves. Mankind is created perfect so we don't
> need to go through other avenues to get the
> connection.


wow! this thread really took off. thanks for all the insight, sproutarian man, living food, and tai.


i do have one question though, why do you suppose dimethyltryptamine is found so abundantly in this reality? one can extract it from one of the most common types of grass, crab grass, which grows all over earth. one can extract it from a whole variety of different trees, even one of the most common trees grown on earth, the acacia, which any australian should especially be familiar with. the most interesting to me, though, is that it is found abundantly in the human body, as a neurotrasmitter. its found in our gut, lungs, and preliminary studies have located it in the pineal gland of rats (and thus the possibility that it may be present in the pineal gland of humans as well).


whats strange is that DMT is very closely related to serotonin, which from what i understand of current neuroscience is the basis from which we perceive reality, as it modulates many receptor sites in the brain including the one which creates our model of all that we see, hear, taste, touch, smell and feel. when one smokes an extract of this same dmt which is found all throughout nature, it 'bumps' the serotonin off this receptor site and in turn creates entirely different worlds subjective to the human which has undergone said smoking. quite literally the majority of DMT users find themselves in completely alien worlds, separated from their body/ego. so the difference in seeing our world and the dmt world is very, very fragile, a few molecules. i've even heard one clever botanist claim that our current reality could be considered a 'serotonin hallucination' when one considers the implications of DMT and its mechanisms in the brain.



i think, apart from the human understanding of good and evil, bad or good attached to these substances, one must really appreciate the mystery of why this is so. why would mother nature place these compounds so abundantly in nature, in our bodies, and why has almost every important culture apart from the modern west and its ignorance found great importance in them?


just a few thoughts... i for one love the mystery of it all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2015 03:28AM by tezcal.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 02, 2015 03:43AM

Quote

The people with simple lives do much better because they can focus much better

Quote

Worry is a waste of emotion, it is silly, but it is a product of people living in the system.

Quote

On another note, even when loved ones get sick, you never worry because that serves no purpose except to block the mind for trying to find solutions. All you can do is your best to help. Sometimes people will get sick and nothing can be done because it is karma based, but remember that the soul lives forever and that is all that really matters at the end of the day. A body is just a suit and we do get new ones up until a certain point, so don't worry. People who love the system think the body is the be all and end all, but the system people don't know who they are yet because they don't know what the soul is.

I completely agree. Worry, fear, anger...none of these add to our lives and they are all very detrimental, so why do we permit them to live inside of us??? People think they're inevitable, but they are not too hard to get rid of if you dedicate yourself to the spiritual path.

Side note: it looks like people are still quite interested in the original topic of this thread (psychoactive plants), so I suggest we could move this current conversation over to the "are raw vegans minimalists" thread and let this thread get back on topic. I already hopelessly hijacked the minimalist thread anyway grinning smiley

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: Living Food ()
Date: February 02, 2015 03:47AM

Tezcal: these substances can be used to reach different states of consciousness and even see into other dimensions, but is that really the most desirable way to be doing things? Why not learn to do these things under your own power? It is much more difficult than inhaking a little smoking or popping a few pills, but the rewards are much much greater. Taking shortcuts is seldom a good thing, it generally leads to more harm than good.

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Re: Cautionary tales for psychoactive plant medicine
Posted by: jtprindl ()
Date: February 02, 2015 03:48AM

"Why not learn to do these things under your own power?"

I think the whole point is that certain psychedelics can teach one to do so under their own power.

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