Hi,


I am happily raw vegan and have been (with a few hiccups) for the past two years.

However, even after chugging tons of green juices/multivitamin pills/supplements/superfoods/powders/wild foods I have become vitamin B12 and iron deficient and developed pernicious anaemia (not nice really - feels like I can't get enough oxygen . . . and another (possible) symptom is that when I cut myself it bleeds and bleeds and takes ages to clot.

I am figuring that I am going to have to add some cooked/animal product back into my diet because I am losing the battle against B12 and iron. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to eat animal products (cheese gives me horrendous mucus and meat/fish gives me agonising joint pains, so bad the day after eating it that I can't move) . . . but I think my body is forcing me into it.


So I really, desperately need your help and advice! What is the least body-damaging animal product? What is the minimum amount that I could eat a week that wouldn't make me cooked/non-vegan sick? I know this is a vegan board but I'm sure that some of you have been through this and found a solution. Also, I really don't want to eat animal things!!! (((((


Please help!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2007 09:47PM by SkyeBlue.

SkyeBlue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> However, even after chugging tons of green
> juices/multivitamin
> pills/supplements/superfoods/powders/wild foods I
> have become vitamin B12 and iron deficient and
> developed pernicious anaemia

well, you could try not doing the above and see if that helps..

in other words, just eat fresh fruits and veggies.

Eating just the fruit and veg is what I have been doing. . . all the other things have only added in to see if they make the iron and B12 issue better (

BTW correction - I think 'pernicious anaemia' might be the wrong term for the type of anaemia I have.

What is your age? When I was 50 I hadn't found raw foods yet, and I had many symptoms of anemia I found out, so I took iron supplements, high dose each day for a year, in that time I found raw foods, and that helped me to lose weight, and get rid of a lot of other health problems.

Without the iron supplements though, I think I would have died..and I'm not exaggerating either. I took 325 mg/65 mg of elemental iron, and I took 3-4 tabs per day..not all at the same time, thru-out the day. I worked my way up to that many, and stayed on that many almost a year.

I'm hypothyroid, and have taken meds for over 30 years for it, I'm 54 years old now (almost 55) and I learned that people that are hypothyroid have low stores of iron (many are anemic and don't know it) and low stomach acid.

I have only needed to take iron a few times (I'll take a tablet per day for 1-2 weeks) over the last 4 years now. I have since discovered braggs raw apple cider vinegar, and that is helping with the low digestive acid, and I'm better able to digest what I eat.

It takes time to get your iron stores up depending on a range of things, age, menses, other health issues, etc. You might want to do some extensive research on it, that's what I did. You might want to see a nautropath for help also.

Or just try adding some of the raw apple cider vinegar to see if that helps you feel better. You can find more info and a book at bragg.com

Love,
Prism

Hi SkyBlue,

Could you give us a little more information? Is your pernicious anemia due to absence of intrinsic factor? If so, do you have an autoimmune disorder? If not, does your doctor know what is obstructing the iron/vit. B-12 absorbtion? How long did you take the vitamin B-12 suppliment, in what form and how often? (Did you get the daily shots?) Are you sure your anemia had to do with iron absorbtion problems as well as the B-12 deficiency? Vitamin B-12 stores take from 4-6 years to become depleted, so how were you eating before you went raw two years ago? Finally, how good is your medical care? Are you getting the attention you need for this from your provider(s)? I ask because we raw foodists can sometimes get the brush-off by medical professionals for not blindly accepting mainstream "wisdom". (Apologies for that oximoron.)

I'm glad you're hunting around for more information before resorting to meat. Good plan.

Betty

This is a vegan forum, do not come here and ask for advice on which animal products to take. Vitamin B-12 injections and methocobailimin pills are vegan, and they work. Go see a doctor.

Fresh is quite right, further; if you were really able to chug down a bunch of products suddenly, I don't think you were ever really in touch with your bodies needs.

Skye Blue,

If you feel you aren't getting B12, go buy some supplements and see if your symptoms go away. My guess is that they wont. Your problem is probably not an issue of B12 lack, but perhaps there is an absorption problem (your digestion is not ideal), or your body is toxic.

Given all those substances you put in your body that are not food, I am not surprised.

Please share with us what percentage raw you are, what your raw food intake looks like, and what your cooked (if any) diet looks like.

Eating (or ingesting) a lot of non raw things will hamper your body's ability to make healthy red blood cells.

Also, your body may be needing to water fast so it can heal its digestion (or itself). I know so many raw vegans who have been doing this for years (myself included) and have super excellent ability to heal wounds. Myself and my friends will have our cuts clotted often within less than a minute.

SkyeBlue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eating just the fruit and veg is what I have been
> doing. . . all the other things have only added
> in to see if they make the iron and B12 issue
> better (

it wasn't clear to me what your timeline was.

more information would help, as others have said..

but this is probably not the best place to get advice on this.
>
> BTW correction - I think 'pernicious anaemia'
> might be the wrong term for the type of anaemia I
> have.


i would like to know what type of anemia you have then.

sounds like iron deficiency anemia..

It is true that this a vegan forum but if vegan practices do not work, working alternatives should be discussed.

SkyeBlue,

I agree with Bryan. Also, taking a b-12 supplement is supposed to work. And raisins have tons of iron. You don't need to eat animal products to get that stuff.

Dream Earth, you need to relax and stop being so judgmental. Skyeblue is asking for our help and won't be "open" to suggestions if we are just going to point the finger or kick them off the board at the first mention of the "a" word.

SkyeBlue.....it is my understanding that once you have pernicious anaemia, you can't correct it with food. You are going to need supplements or B12 shots. Vitamin B12 can also be given in a gel or spray for the nose. It develops from a lack of a protein (called intrinsic factor) in the stomach that helps the body absorb vitamin B12. Talk to you doctor about B12 supplementation so you don't have to eat animal products.

Skye, For anemia, I always drink the milk/water from 2 Young Coconuts. You can always do Chlorophyll supplementation to help build the blood, too.

I've also heard that you can get B12 from Nutritional Yeast or sublingual B12 supplements. I want to try the Nutritional Yeast but haven't purchased any yet. Some eat "Superfoods" or Blue-green Algae. I don't wish to eat Algae. I'm allergic to Spirulina.

Good luck! Therese

Blackstrap molasses, has been known to cure iron deficient anemia, at 20% RDA iron, per tbsp. Not raw, yet very healthy. I also use Rapunzel sugar on my grapefruit. It's 11% RDA iron, per tsp. I get my folic acid by eating lots of greens, and I take Mega Foods Blood Builder, on occasion, to make sure I have enough B12, just to be sure. You must have vitamin C (OJ, grapefruit, tomatoes, ect) with your iron, to help with absorption.

Hope you feel better.

SkyeBlue, adding animal products to your diet is the proper course. A diet of greens, fruits, and some animal products once a week works very well, I have being doing this for years. Animal products provide b12 and more. You do not have to worry about supplements, yeasts, molasses,



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2007 10:05AM by djatchi.

Hello SkyeBlue!

Sorry to hear about your situation!

It's possible to be unhealthy under any 'healthy' diet. Because we've been eating so badly for so very long, when we change our diets, we get lost a little- tend to listen more to other people than our own human bodies!

You mention you were drinking lots of green juices yet still became iron deficient? How much iron do you think you were getting (or not getting) for you to become deficient? Is it possible all these problems had already kicked off before you going raw? After all, many people seemed to have gone raw because of a 'wake up call'- usually a major health problem such as obesity, bloating, IBS, allergies etc?

The B12 situation needs so much more research, there seems to be a giant question mark over it. Not just in the raw community or vegan community, but for every other person too- vegetarian, meat-eaters etc.

I personally wouldn't advise you taking animal products, especially if they make you sick. There are many fortified foods that have B12- yeast extracts, nutritional yeast etc- or you could take a quality B12 tablet.

Then of course, you might just be someone who need B12 shots.

There is lots of vegan (not raw) B12 stories here on the vegan forums- the moderator 'Korn' is especially knowledgable about B12.

[veganforum.com]

Just adding this- an interesting B12 thread- 50 ways to develop B12 defiency

[www.veganforum.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2007 02:01PM by rawnoggin.

awesome links rawnoggin! thanks for sharing
patty

what tests did you have done to determine the anemia , b12 and iron deficiency?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

dewey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> awesome links rawnoggin! thanks for sharing
> patty

No problem

If you know that you are deficient in those two things, (B12, iron) then why not research the proper supplements instead of asking which animal products contain a little of that stuff? This is an inappropriate place to ask about animanl products as most knowledge is focused on the vegan lifestyle. As for B12, take the methylcobalamin form. If you have an intrinsic (sp?) factor problem, the sublingual form goes directly into the blood so you do not have to worry about it. AOR makes Ultra B12 or something like that (www.aor.com) which is the highest B12 concentration I can find. I believe it is derived from fermentation. As for iron, I am not sure. Although meat does have the most absorbable form of iron, if you want to remain vegan you should try the www.nutrtiondata.com to see the highest iron containing foods.

The best thing to do first though is to see a doctor! Make sure you are deficient in the things you think you are as if they are symptoms of something else, then obviously you need the proper treatment.

I have pernicious anemia and it means you can't absorb B12. So eating
meat won't help. I have to have B12 injections once a month for
rest of my life. My iron is also low because of heavy periods.
I take iron 325mg every night, cause it makes me sleepy. Remember
to have vc with your greens for better absorption. I know how
depressing,exhausting and mentally challenging it is having pernicious
anemia so good luck and get your injections. It's absolutely life
changing.

Laurin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to have B12 injections
> once a month for
> rest of my life.

If you don't like needles, you could try sin patches once a week. For example:

[www.drdavidspatches.com]