I personally make a distinction between healthy sexual self-image on the one hand and pornography on the other. It's the difference between enjoying and celebrating your body or brazenly flaunting it, and I suspect that those who flaunt it in an extremely blatant way are often traumatized or abused, and feel unloved and unlovable, so they become masochistic and sexualized in an unhealthy way. But I would never judge or criticize a woman for choosing to be provacative; one can never know another person's story or the reasons for their actions. I'd rather be inclusive, caring, or at least neutrlal when dealing with people whose behavior is odd or inappropriate, as long as they're not hurting me.

A couple of summers ago I saw a young woman rip off her clothes and dance completely naked to a rock band that was playing in Harvard Square (at least until the police arrived a few minutes later) when I was out on my sound monitoring rounds here in Cambridge. I felt really bad for her; it was apparent to me that she was probably acting out and expressing some deep-seated pain. I certainly didn't feel she was a 'bad' or 'sinful' girl.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

<<Woman should stop dressing under the influence of pornagraphy.>>

well then, we wouldn't be dressing at all

LOL

pornography = no clothes

Woman should be able to go topless in public, like men can. I think breasts would then be LESS objectified because the sight of them would be commonplace. Their beauty would be appreciated like anything else that is beautiful, but not be overly sexualized. That would be liberating.

I was a kid that you would like
Just a small boy on her bike
Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw
My neighbor come outside to say
"Get your shirt," I said "No way
It's the last time I'm not breaking any law"

And now I'm in a clothing store
And the sign says, "Less is More"
More that's tight means more to see
More for them, not more for me
That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat

-Dar Williams "When I was a Boy."

Yay Dar! I remember when I was eight and the construction workers were working on the street in front of my house with no shirts on that summer. I went topless like they were, and my mom yelled at me to put my shirt on. I replied, "I don't have boobs yet! I'm leaving my shirt off while I can!" What could she say?

El, I don't think this thread is about pornography but womanhood. I don't think the way I dress is at all influenced by porn. I never watch it and think it is stupid, as does my partner. I do love my breasts though. They are still beautiful and have nourished four babies, and yes, I will show a little cleavage at times.

True feminism means having a choice, not just being contrary to some particular idea (except the idea of inequality). If a woman wants to look a particular way that's her choice, and it doesn't make her somehow less of a proponent of equality just because she appears attractive. People, men and women, should be allowed to be beautiful without people making a god damn fuss about it.

-DaveK

elnatural_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen if 2 water balloons were sitting next 2
> each other they would have no effect on me so
> neither does what you are talking about here.

Breasts = 2 water balloons? And they "have no effect", eh? Tell me, how do you feel about cucumbers?

Lois Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nurse three babies for ten years (and tandem
> nursing) and then try to make cleavage out of
> pancakes -- it's not pretty
LOLOLOLOL
I hear ya, Sister : )

wtf WY, we're not talking about 4" lucite heels and peekaboo panties here, who said anything about dressing like a porn star? i didn't think i was dressing under the effects of pornography. i thought it was HUMIDITY. silly me.

elnatural_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Woman should stop dressing under the influence of
> pornagraphy. That is giving into to it, and being
> controlled by it. That is agreeing to the concept
> you are just ojects for men to use an abuse by way
> of how sick they are. Cleavage is not porn but is
> caused by it and is moving in that direction. It's
> agreeing to the concepts of porn and says you
> realy have low self esteenm. Where long dresses
> and just be yourself.


i've been thinking about this a bit lately and i have some thoughts. "cleavage is caused by porn", "wear long dresses". this is as much an objectification of women as the opposite view, it's the other side of the same sexist and repressive mindset that only values women for their physical attributes. the idea that a woman can only be truly valued if she is entirely covered up, as though the force of her personality is such that it can be overwhelmed by the mere glimpse of some flesh, and as though men are incapable of seeing another human being as a multi-dimensional being, of viewing a woman beyond her "attributes", well... i find it hard to believe that this is so. it dumbs down a complex set of circumstances and societally developed behaviors and attempts to paint a very simplistic picture of what is hardly simple at all. one can not simply say that a person should or should not do this or that to value themselves and be valued by others. a long dress is not going to make people respect you without fail and a short skirt will not always have the opposite effect either.

until we embrace women's (and men's) intrinsic value for who and what they are regardless of their coverings, be them of the socio-economic or clothing variety, we are victimizing with and falling victim to our own predjudices.


>
> Dont see yourselfs and or value yourselfs per how
> you look compared to any pornographic standards.

i never do this. i don't know what you were implying by it but i don't choose my attire based on pornographic standards or even really based on how i am going to look to the outside world. if that were the case i'd have to throw out my crazy sock collection! the only person who's opinion of my wardrobe matters is MYSELF and that has everything to do with how much i value myself and my own opinion. i gotta say, i wear what I like and sometimes bits of my (G_D given, by the way) body show. no apologies, i'm a natural woman yo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2008 07:23PM by coco.

Dress appropriately now, ladies:



(Just kidding around.)

why the heck would i wear LONGGGGG dresses? huh?

its darn HOT right now

i wear my skirts

and i also don't think that if i wear a tank top it will hinder me from climbing trees

LOL

hey kwan

funny pic!

hey coco

YO!!

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dress appropriately now, ladies:
>
> [i7.photobucket.com]
> hkrsgfi.jpg
>
> (Just kidding around.)

i LOVE the church lady!!
patty

i want to dress up like the church lady
prim and proper and everything is color coordinated

will go well with my silk skirt and five inch heels LOL

Any skin showing beyond the forearm is considered lewd in Afghanistan. The women there must suffer from vitamin D deficiency due to lack of sun exposure.

looks really cool and comfortable, doesn't it? betcha they get lots of respect from their men folk too. honoured for their personalities and such.
right.

they are prolly diddling themselves under those things.

I don't care about cleavage in public. But it's kinda weird when the librarian at our library has it. But sometimes you have to have something that diverts attention from your face if you are lacking beauty in the mug.

As far as pancakes go...I was worried about mine then I found out my husband prefers them. I am not as subconcious now. And after being raw for awhile and losing alot of weight I was scared they would hang down to the south pole but they are hanging about the same.

zella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they are prolly diddling themselves under those
> things.
ROTFLMAO!
patty

they really are just opposite sides of the spectrum
so they must somehow be the same

objectification is taking place either way

in totally clothing a woman like that, the premise is that... "women's bodies are
dangerous. we must cover the danger."

it is still grossly objectifying the woman

in dressing scantily, the idea is "I want my body to appear dangerous. "

here at least, the objectification is voluntary instead of coerced

the other side is that perhaps SOME women in burkas feel that their garb is okay.
both men and women in certain countries where the clothing is full length design the cloth so that it is porous and air can get through as well as it being lightweight

perhaps i wouldn't mind wearing a burka in cooler weather and go about my business
walk across the street etc.
without drawing attention

maybe it is liberating too in a way

its like being invisible
which can have its own sort of freedom

instead of being hounded by the paparazzi til one's death ( like princess diana)

america is all about exposure

still, its all the same

there are a lot of external factors involved in the subconscious

thus women's dress is subject to how others perceive them

to some effect

la veronique

i have never seen you but I think you're beautiful

I love this thread.

I bought Helen Reddy's CD at a flea market a couple weeks ago.
[youtube.com]
I love singing this song to my kids.

I wear so many different clothes. I have hippy clothes, beach clothes, park clothes, all kinds of clothes but I would never, ever wear long dresses. No way, uh, uh. I see no use for them. The most impractical invention I can think of. Even suggesting them for me to wear them lowers my opinion of you.

I find some remarks on this thread prejudiced and rude. When I think about prejudices I think about the ignorance that has caused it.

People are beautiful. They should be seen and embraced. I can't imagine living in a place where I was so anonymous that it would be hard to interact with the people/children walking by. I can't imagine not wanting to see men's or women's bodies, their hair, their arms. So sad. Just becasue I admire someone's healthy sexuality does not make me want to do something wrong or bad as so many people seem to think it will. People are sexual, animals are sexual. It has nothing to do with being good or bad. Pornography as well as repression is not promoting healthy sexuality. Healthy sexuality is a good thing and I believe woman are on the right path in balancing out our sexuality. We have a long way to go in some places of the world but it will happen. Men and women have come a long way in the last 30 years.

I wear long skirts. But they are skin tight so you can see my ass.

Just the right amount is sexy.
Too much and it looks cheap.
Clinging clothes PLUS just the right amount...very nice!
Brian

in other words

to be kosher

one must utilize fashion with great precision
to generate just the right amount of "leverage" without appearing to be non classy

it is definetely a science LOL and can get quite expensive as well


men don't have as much to worry about

no one is going to accuse a guy of looking "cheap" cuz his four piece suit is

too tight

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> no one is going to accuse a guy of looking "cheap"
> cuz his four piece suit is
>
> too tight

no but they`ll access his bulge LOL
patty

This could get interesting.

now this thread is Really useless without pictures!

ha ha.