if the articles of clothing or foodwear would have been thrown out otherwise and you could get use out of them? I am not sure. I am curious where people stand on this.

I meant to say footwear.

for me it would depend on my situation and/or desperation. as a fashion statement? no
patty

i have lots of used clothes from the second hand store, friends or family. some are wool, some are silk, a leather belt, a leather jacket, there is a vintage lambskin coat in the closet, i can't imagine just throwing those things out! seems worse to waste them instead of making them last for as long as possible. and i do have some shoes made of leather too.
there was a time when i eschewed all animal products regardless of whether they were preowned or not. it seemed wrong to show leather shoes and belts, etc and promote them as wearable items to others who might go out and buy them new and support that industry.
now i am just happy to find clothes that fit and are comfortable and durable and especially WARM for this canadian climate. i also have not found the kind of shoes i need for my feet (they have to be a special fit) in anything but leather though i am looking and have made my pairs last for several years so far with great care.
i don't purchase new items like that, not even wool yarn or felt for crafting though i did get some wool sent to me from australia last year from what i believe to be an ethical source.

Coco - Part of me feels the same way, although I recognize a double standard. My mother-in-law gave me some sandals she would have thrown away. They are very comfortable and have been useful for me (they are now falling apart). On the one hand I was recycling by using them and that is good for the environment. On the other hand, if they were made from dog, cat or baby seal(for example), I would never wear them. It would be too upsetting. I know that cows are just as precious as the other animals and I have personally a beautiful cow who I really love (who taught me about the intelligence of the cow nation). It is just easier to emotionally disconnect the origin of cow leather with its source because of deeply rooted cultural conditioning. A somewhat more extreme example is the fact that I would never wear human leather in any circumstance, but humans are just as precious as animals in my opinion. I think I will forgo it in all circumstances. Not to say I'd judge another vegan for wearing it (second hand), because I understand the other side too.

it is a tricky issue for sure and hard to reconcile yourself with. my mom used to have some really interesting old fur wraps that she got from thrift shops and as a young child i always loved the feel of the fur but would cry about how it was "stolen" from the animals it belonged to so that it could be owned and enjoyed by people. it was very hard, even then. i have to say that i haven't actually worn the leather jacket or lambskin coat that are in the closet, but i can't bear to waste them by throwing them out. that seems so disrespectful to the animal sacrifice to me, as pointless as that POV may be, all things considered.
years ago i worked in a retail shop where we had some fur products made from old ruined fur coats. at first i thought it was such a great idea to use that material again, to recycle it as something useful and keep it from landfill. but the hats, mitts and leggings were very beautiful though and i could easily see someone recreating the style with new skins. that's a very tough thing to balance in my mind. which is worse?

I prefer not to wear them because even if they are secondhand people can still tell what they are. Leather especially is evident.

In truth I doubt anybody notices that I never wear leather, wool, or silk. But I feel better knowing that I don't even if others are oblivious.

i wear cabbages

I think one of the worst ideas the vegan community has come up with is this "cruelty free" faux-fur/ faux-leather fad. People walking around sporting coats that look like fur or leather...but oh no! I'm vegan, no animals harmed... if they really looked at that fabric its actually a very ugly style. And it is only buying into the fashionable use of animals. And only promoting that look further.

However!___ I have a total of 3 pairs of shoes. One pair is leather, I bought them 4 years ago, and I cant imagine that throwing them into a landfill or passing them on to another human to wear would be a better choice than to continue wearing them myself.

I'm surrounded by wood walls and non functioning wood furniture, I still use toilet paper, and print quotes from this site on bleached paper.... So where does one begin to end the habit of wasting resources.?

well, it's interesting to look at it that way. using paper products wastefully, even recycled ones, is an issue and looking at disposing of second hand items that are from animal sources as wasteful in the same context is valid. but i do think they are separate issues when you get right down to it. as much as i honour and value trees, making things out of them isn't the same as making things out of creatures. and i would rather have real wood and real paper than the look-alike kind made of plastic.

that said, faux fur and faux leather are chemically made and the manufacture and disposal of those items is toxic to the planet. i wouldn't rather see real fur and leather but my objection to the fake kind isn't about it being a look-alike (because it really isn't, it is obviously something artificial and it is used stylistically as such) but to the impact that it has on the environment. i don't mind the look of an oscar the grouch coat because i equate that visually with fashion, not fur. even the really high quality fauxs that you have to look twice at are ok with me. i would much, much rather that someone purchase a faux hairy coat because it's luxurious and warm than go to an actual house of fur. i really would. and faux leather shoes are way more durable and versatile than canvas or hemp. the shoes here are fantastic [www.mooshoes.com] i mean, what's the alternative exactly? i'm not after shoes that look like they were made of cows, i am just looking for comfortable and sometimes stylish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2008 02:08AM by coco.

coco - It is important to me to purchase clothes and shoes that are biodegradable, fair trade and vegan. Otherwise I get things second hand and often play with them with my sewing machine to make them more my style.

are birkenstocks considered biodegradable and vegan? they would be right?
patty

Some Birks have leather uppers, but I got a cute pair of vegan ones for my daughter at a second hand store for $7!

i usually wear the non leather uppers
only shoes my feet like
7 bucks=SCORE
patty

I try to buy everything second hand, and I do buy wool clothes because I am in New England and I'm not sure why wool is not acceptable to vegans, because sheep aren't hurt being sheared (unless you accidentally cut one). The only leather shoes I have bought lately are a pair of Danskos for work about a year ago. Do they make vegan Danskos? Because if they do, I'd buy them.

Sundancer - In theory sheep are not hurt when used for wool, but unfortunately in a system where wool is produced in mass qualities, the sheep are horribly abused like any other animal in a factory farm setting. They are seen merely as commodities, live miserable and sickly lives while crowded together practically on top of each other. There is also a cruel practice called mulesing (common is Australia), used primarily on large scale operations where large chunks of skin are cut away from the animal with no analgesia in areas where flies tend to lay eggs in the folds. Like dairy or meat operations the animals are seen as mere commodities, living only for the sake of man, and robbed of their god-given purpose. They are then brutally slaughtered when they are not needed anymore. The same environmental consequences (enormous amounts of agriculture - land, water, fossil fuels) used to feed the animals enormous amounts of livestock waste are prevalent. You can find benevolently made wool clothing, but nearly all if it purchased commercially is derived from cruel practices.

Here is an informative article on the subject:
[www.animalsvoice.com]

vegan birks are made with synthetics, not biodegradable but not skin. i wouldn't wear second hand shoes, the soles conform to the shape of the first wearer and never fit a second wearer as well. i have special needs feet (very high arches and sensitive) so it's new shoes for me.

can't say that i would be able to go entirely natural with wearables. that would mean nothing with zippers, elastic, velcro, most buttons, plain old unbleached cotton in beige beige beige... biodegradable clothes and shoes are a far way off from our closets (one grown up and two small kiddies) i'm afraid. the best we can aim for is a high cotton content, even when i buy it second hand i check for that.

I buy wool and silk clothing from secondhand stores pretty frequently. I won't buy leather purses, but I do buy leather shoes because I'm just not a sneaker
kind of person.

Coco--

I sometimes buy my shoes secondhand if they're in great shape. I'm like you: I have super-high arches that used to be incredibly sensitive. I couldn't even let anyone give me a foot rub because the arches were so tight and sore. I'm happy to say that they've gotten much better-- softer and more flexible-- so you probably have that to look forward to as you continue your raw journey. :-)

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

oh, my feet are really flexible, i'm pretty flexible all over. and i like foot rubs and i LOVE having my feet tickled too! but when i walk if it's in uncomfortable shoes or on hard pavement or hard ceramic tiles in the house my feet complain to me. loudly! i do a lot of barefoot and surprisingly flip flops in the summer provide just enough cushioning to make outdoor sidewalk trekking bearable. i just cannot wear any kind of heel at all any more or tight or ill fitting shoes. if they are a shoe that covers my whole foot the arch support has to be just right and i need enough room across the toe area which seems to be difficult to find in women's shoes, they all taper so much at the toe, even sneakers!

for me, the ideal is to reduce my impact on the planet as much as possible and i feel that i can do that very well by purchasing second hand. i would rather have a previously owned silk blouse than go out and buy a new cotton one. the pollution associated with a new anything is huge; producing and shipping the raw material, manufacturing the fabric, dyeing it, shipping the fabric, producing the garment, shipping it to stores, driving to the store to pick it up etc etc. if all of that can be spread out over multiple ownership is lessens the impact.

that's my thinking on it anyhow.
except for shoes. and underwear. sorry, i ain't buying that second hand! though i have scored a few nice bras at the thrift store in fancy colours that i never see in stores for some reason.

and now coco has turned this into a conversation about her underwear. fancy that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2008 01:38PM by coco.

>for me, the ideal is to reduce my impact on the planet as much as possible and i feel that i can do that very well by purchasing second hand. i would rather have a previously owned silk blouse than go out and buy a new cotton one. the pollution associated with a new anything is huge; producing and shipping the raw material, manufacturing the fabric, dyeing it, shipping the fabric, producing the garment, shipping it to stores, driving to the store to pick it up etc etc. if all of that can be spread out over multiple ownership is lessens the impact.<

Exactly my sentiments-- couldn't have said it better. That's why I buy everything secondhand too, except underwear and socks. I love the idea that when I buy clothing secondhand, I'm giving something a second life, and as you say, lessening the impact through multiple ownership. Plus I honestly often like the designer clothes I find in secondhand stores so much better than the current styles I see in local stores.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Yes.

vegan Earth Shoes are the best!

i went to the thrift store today and scored a fantastic pair of designer pants for $3 (i forget which designer already, i am so not up on "real" fashion these days!), bubble gum pink pedal pushers with nifty pockets, fit me great! and i found a pair of shoes for $3 that look like they have never been worn. dockers slides, flat tan bottoms with red uppers. i was thinking about this conversation and i did indeed look at the label and they are (sadly) leather. i have to actually read the label, i honestly can't tell between fake and real these days!

earth shoes are the only closed shoes i can bear to have on my feet in winter but i just bought the styles i could find in the shop and they were not vegan. when i wear these ones out and have to replace them i'll see what i can find in their vegan selection online. so far i have had them for a few years and they are holding up very well though so i think i'll probably have them for a while.

what do you think about the ecological impact of synthetic fiber vs natural fiber (wool, alpaca, mohair, angora, silk and leather vs pleather)? just curious. i'm asking about it from an ecological perspective not an ethical one. i wonder if anyone has any statistics?

There are a lot of small wool farms in my area, and I have been to the farms and met the farmers, so I think I would feel good about buying their products. I too only buy second hand, except underwear and new looking shoes. I buy organic underwear.