how would you handle this? my son is almost 13 years old and is a good kid, doesn`t cuss...well at least doesn`t around me and i don`t know of any of that verbage coming out of his mouth around any of my friends, doesn`t smoke, doesn`t do drugs, etc. he has had this friend since 1st grade (they even went to disneyland this summer together) whom i`ve posted about as far as his myspace page being filled with profanity. well my kid sent him a message saying "dude stop cussing so much". well this kid hit the wall and sent all kinds of comments filled with profanity to my kids page. my husband was pissed and he called this other kids mom and he had to leave a message and he told her what was happening. she never even called back but thats besides the point.i told my kid to just ignore him and don`t engage in word wars and be the bigger man. he has but it`s not getting any better. now this kid has his friend calling my kid on his cellphone and cussing him out on a voicemail. plus this kid sent another comment on my kids myspace page telling him he was a wuss and how my kid wants to copy everything he does and all that. my son is pretty independent, he makes up his own mind and does his own thing, he`s not easily influenced by other kids.....don`t get me wrong, he does make stupid choices sometimes and does follow once in awhile but it`s not his make up ya know? my problem lies here: if i go to his mom and grandpa (his dad was killed when he was 2 years old and he`s being raised by his mom and her dad which factors in i know) then it makes my kid look like a mamas boy and a tattletail. ignoring it isn`t working either and he`s got to sit in school with this punk all day in a couple weeks. my kid wants to talk to the assistant principal of the school who is also a pastor of a christian church whom is sort of a mentor to my son.....and he`s a mentor to me as well. he`s a great guy and has experience and a passion for dealing with distraught preteen kids as he used to be 1 in the southside of chicago. i don`t know whether to bring him in on this or not. he`d be a good sounding board but again, my kid would look like a tattletale and it will only get worse i`m afraid. although we could talk to him in confidence i`m sure. ok people...give your wisdom to me!!
patty

Hmmm.....my thoughts:

-Kids have conflicts with other kids. This is normal. But this is more of a long-distance conflict! Ha! ha! You cannot control the other child's behavior......in this case....his profanity. You CAN try to speak to the guardians...as you have. You can call the guardians and ask to speak to the boy directly to voice your concerns. In any event, the main responsibility is to arm your child with the dignity and grace to either NOT be friends or associate with those who are.....profane/abusive....or whatever. In ANY event, he's going to have to deal with this kid......as you say....so I think trying to talk to the guardians/the kid is fine. if it turns out to worsen the situation....that' not YOUR fault (or your kid's fault). Its the other boy (and perhaps his guardians as well). As such, your boy and you then have the option of severing relations with that child & his family - and enforcing that separation (if the child becomes even more abusive) through regular disciplinary channels. I'm sure the school and the boys parents...church or whatever have policies of not allowing students to physically (or verbally) abuse other students....you know? (Even if it's done through MySpace...) Heh...heh.

-If it's a concern to YOU...don't ignore it.....but you can't shield your kid from every 'stick and stone'. It it turns into something more serious, then that's what disciplinary procedures are for - and I'm sure you'll take the appropriate steps.

-Good luck and power to you!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2008 06:37PM by davidzanemason.

thanks david it`s so hard trying to figure out what the line is and when/if to cross it. if roles were reversed i`m pretty sure the kids grandpa would contact us..... i suggested to my son that maybe he should block the child from his myspace page so he can`t access it but my son said he doesn`t want to do that yet. i haven`t had a chance to delve into his psyche and see just why not. they`re en route from reno after spending some time up there with family. all of this is just really stupid. conflict is normal as you stated...and good i believe. it`s teaching the youth how to handle it and have good moral character thats the tough part.
patty

I think my first thing would be to sit down with your son and talk it over with him. (no giving advice, just collecting as much information as possible) Find out just how seriously he is taking this. It may be that the other kid is relatively harmless and is just blowing off steam and your kid might realize that. In that case, it is just a matter of letting it blow over. Meanwhile, it is a great opportunity to talk to him about how this type of behaviour makes him feel allow him to come to the knowledge that he might never want to make somebody else feel badly by behaving that way. It must have lowered your son's opinion of his friend considerably.

On the other hand, if your son feels threatened and bullied by this situation, you will need to take it a lot more seriously. In that case, I would definitely meet with the assistant principal. I would explain the situation, but ask him to please not intervene, but rather to observe. It may be that he can send a message to the boy without pointing any fingers, you know making a general classroom statement about appropriate behaviours without mentioning any names. Then, he can contact you if he sees anything alarming going on.

Whatever you decide to do, or whatever options you feel you have, I suggest you discuss them with your son and see how he feels. See if he has any ideas, and listen to what he has to say. This kid has been his friend a long time, and he might know exactly how to handle it. Try your best to remind him not to let himself feel like a victim here, but rather to take this as a lesson how how not to behave.

Worst case, if it develops into a serious bullying situation, see what the assistant principal suggests. In that case, you want to take this very SERIOUSLY. You may even need professional help depending how bad it is. Your son's well-being is the utmost priority.

Sapphire

I forgot to add

I would absolutely point out that everything that boy says and does is a reflection of what kind of person that boy is, and not a reflection of what sort of person your son is.

Important to remember that.

Sapphire

thanks sapphire, i was hoping you`d read as i feel you have a great parental presence. my son wants to take it to the vice principal and let him hear the voicemail this kid sent. i am unsure if it`s the right thing to do however. communication is pretty open in our family and we talk about issues as they arise and we always try to use a situation as a learning tool. my kid doesn`t think it`ll blow over cuz the other kid is telling all his friends about the situation. i think talking to the assistant principal in confidence and asking him not to intervene is a good thing. i`ll consider that more deeply. thanks for you wisdom
patty

dewey

have your son start taking some excellent self defense classes

that way he will have more confidence

and know how to deal with things on multiple levels

its a good investment

plus it will discipline him

we had him in tae kwon do along with my daughter as well
both of them hated it, they lasted about 8 mos
good advice though my friend

lots of kids hate the activities they start going to UNTIL they get good at them and then it's love. my 13 year old cousin was over today and played a song on the piano and WHOA! was she Ever terrific! but i remember years (she started lessons at 3 or 4) of her mom forcing her to practice and dragging her to lessons. i hated the lessons my parents tried to take me to but now i wish Wish WISH that they had stuck to it. if i could play half as good as she did this afternoon i'd be in absolute heaven. for me to learn and get to where she is will take me many years and she will be concert level before she is even my age now. that's amazing.

my point being that it would do no harm and a world of good to stick with the martial arts. sometimes it's more valuable to tough out something that is really, really a challenge than it is to pursue something that you like doing. only sometimes though

the assistant principle/pastor sounds like a GREAT person to talk to. of course it would be in confidence but he will probably have good advice Plus if anything were to happen between these kids he would know the history. he'll most likely keep his eye on the situation to prevent any fall out anyhow.
i don't think it's unreasonable to talk to the other parents involved. bullying is very serious and resolving it only works if it's out in the open and involves all the parties concerned. that child's parents can effect change only if they are aware in the first place. not only that, making them aware that the behavior is not acceptable may encourage them to take it seriously when they might just brush it off as "boys will be boys", an attitude that can lead to increasing aggression at an age where boys are starting to stretch their muscle so to speak.
at the very least the harrassing phone calls on the cell phone are costing you minutes right?

my aunt works for the school board and part of her job is teaching kids conflict resolution, "I" messages and such. if there is a school counsillor they might do some of this training with the kids. that would be a really great thing to look into anyhow, this won't be the last time your son butts heads with someone else. i can't recommend that enough actually, it's non-violent communication that is easy to learn how to do and really works to diffuse a potentially bad situation while allowing full expression of feelings. check it out!

[www.learningpeace.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2008 03:59AM by coco.

I'm wondering if the kid's mom ever got the phone message you sent her or if the son deleted it before she got to it. Maybe you should talk to her in person, mom to mom. Raising kids is tough, especially at this age, and if you had more insight into the kid's mom's perspective, it could help you and your son to handle the situation in a more rounded way. Maybe she doesn't know what her son's language and attitude has been like. My daughter was very secretive starting when she was about 12 and throughout her teenage years, and I discovered many very harmful behaviors by her, after the fact, that affected her permanently. Had I been more astute in observing her behavior, and intervening when necessary, I may have saved her some grief and hardship.

good point sundancer. i thought of that but i dismissed it because he got his phone taken away and i assumed it was because of the call. maybe it needs more thought
patty

coco Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------

> my point being that it would do no harm and a
> world of good to stick with the martial arts.
> sometimes it's more valuable to tough out
> something that is really, really a challenge than
> it is to pursue something that you like doing.
> only sometimes though

i get that and i agree to a certain point. we dropped the lessons for 2 reasons 1. dislike and 2. cash on hand. when we had to tighten our belts a bit it it was one of the first to go. a couple hundred bucks a month is alot when you don`t have it
patty

Sundancer is exactly right. You may want to consider a good talk with the mom.

And here is the appoach I would take: I would contact the mom, and let her know that I wanted to talk to her directly, mom to mom about what is going on. I would assure her that I was not angry but rather that I was approaching her in a role of total support. Being a parent is a very hard job sometimes, and there is a good chance that she is aware of the problem and just doesn't know what to do about it. Remind her that you and your son have known her son for quite some time, and they have been good friends, and that you are concerned that everything is okay, that you know that he isn't a bad person. Create a relationship with her in which you are both on the same side, seeking the best situation for both of your sons. Imagine how devastated you would be if the roles were reversed and you didn't know how to help your own son.

If the father of her son died and she is doing this without another parent, she is in a weaker place than you are, and maybe she needs a little moral support from another parent. I realize grandpa is there, but it's not the same.

When I ran my home day-care, it used to astonish me how easily I could inspire the parents to do really great things for their kids. I would find ways in which their kids excelled, and report back to the parents what amazing talented kids they had. In every instance, the parents would do anything they could to encourage the kids along those lines, they only needed to be made aware of the possibilities.

Sapphire

i hear you dewey, we got to free classes at the local community center or i wouldn't be able to afford it either! maybe there is something like that near you, a place that offers a different sort of martial arts or self defense of something that the kids might like if they get interested again.

sapphire, your approach is so lovely. i hope i have half your grace about these things when my kids get a little older. it seems to all be so much easier when they are small.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
it seems to all be so
> much easier when they are small.

in ways it`s easier and in ways it`s not. they are more independent which is easier but you have less, or should have less control over them...if you want them to be good strong upstanding adults anyways. the issues are there they just change form LOL
patty

I love Sapphire's approach and would go that way. A good friendship will weather this social storm, and if your kids know that their moms want them to stay friends, maybe it will help them (and you) to work out the issue in a more adult way. Good luck!!

Hi Dewey,

I think it would be an awesome idea if you have either your kid or the principle or even an outside speaker come into the school and do a workshop on non violent communication or peace themes that counter aggression. The person who is facilitating it could ask for the participation of ALL the kids. It could be an on going thing that could involve conflict resolution, non violent communication, volunteering at a soup kitchen or whatever... something that could last for about a month or hey... maybe even longer... Let the principle or teacher know about the situation and assign "leaders" to each group task. Let one of the "leaders' be the bully kid. In this way, he is going to have to lead a group of maybe 4 or 5 other kids in how to cultivate a peaceful and dynamic perspective while doing these particular theme works. I think it will work well. There are many schools across the world now that are implementing things such as these. I don't know the exact name of the programs but I have read about several because nowadays... well, the world is changing rapidly, and violence is seeminglly rampant but kids have been and are instigating change... but they need help from adults who can show them the way. this is possible. Just be creative. Dewey, you, your son and the principle as well as the teacher can convene and come up with creative ideas.
Bringing outside speakers who are leaders of their community who have instigated peaceful change and will come in to talk about this or that.. is also very powerful. Kids will model what they see hear around them.

Maybe you may think it is too much work to initiate such a program. I think that it is worth it. Besides it will benefit not just your kid and the bully but all the other kids in the classroom . maybe the kids have been too influenced by the media and think that violence is "cool" and the way to go. But if you can show them other versions... i think it can work.

just like some people think that PEPSI and COKE is "cool" to drink
and so is cigarettes and vodka

but if they are shown an alternate route, "raw veganism"
and have regular showcases, programs, participation, feedback
on this, they will embrace it

this is a good time to start them off on the right path

who knows, maybe the bully may become a peace leader in the future

I like La_v's idea, but there is a program for schools which I am very impressed by. You may have heard of it, it is called the Virtues Progam. They focus on one virtue at a time, give the kids opportunities to actually practice each virtue whenever possible, and making sure to recognize good deeds always. They learn about things like loyalty, compassion, responsibility, generosity, etc.

Somehow, focussing on that instead of the bullying will end up addressing any bullying issues while sending some of the most positive and powerful messages you could ever ask for. They ran this program in my kids' elementary school a few years ago and it was wonderful!

Here's the link [virtuestraining.com]

Oops, I posted the wrong link the first time, fixed it.

Sapphire



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2008 11:16PM by Sapphire.

hey sapphire

that looks cool
hey dewey

hope u saw sapphire's link

it sounds like the PRACITCING of what all the religions talk about
except in a practical non denominational school setting

i think this is a cool idea

hey i think adults could use it too LOL

well, actually considering that adults are instigating all these wars

i think they need it more than anyone else

i agree with sapphire that if a kid is wholeheartedly focusing on a virtue and the achieving of that virtue it would be very difficult to also be full committed to being a bully

that would be so strange as to border on the comical

well hope u can contact those people

Wow!! What an awesome thread!! I can't believe I haven't seen it till now.

Great advice guys.

As I sit here writing my daughter just asked if she could watch "The Ugly Duckling." How appropriate.

Good luck finding resolution Patty.

La V- great idea - we do it already. we have anti bullying classes every year and we do skits with different scenarios and then talk about possible solutions and have the kids act them out as well. we also assign(actually the kids secretly nominate) 2 kids, one boy and one girl to be the bully police or mcgruff watchdogs LOL. it`s a great program

the virtue link is very cool, i`ll show it to my principal and see what she thinks. maybe the teachers can work it into their bible curriculum. we go over virtues every day since it is a private christian school and that is part of why i`m so discouraged. but school can only do so much, if it`s not followed up at home then it doesn`t do a whole lotta good ya know?

i met with the vice principal this afternoon. we have a great relationship and he knows me and my family well and also this other kid`s home scenario pretty well. his advice was to talk with his mom and physically show her the comments he`s been putting on my sons page. he told my son not to respond to any of them and just pretend they weren`t there. then when school starts he advised my son to approach this other kid and ask him what was up, why he is acting this way? he said if that doesn`t work sever the relationship. he told him to stand tall and be proud and not to gossip or stoop to this other kids level.just go about his life and be the likable kid he is. he also said some of this is probably due to this other child not having the greatest home life and also due to him trying to find his identity. i didn`t show him the myspace pages and i didn`t have him listen to the voicemail, he took my word for the vulgarity of it all. my son feels better about handling the situation and we`ll have to see how it all plays out. if it gets worse i`m calling a meeting with everyone concerned. he needs to learn how to handle conflict but i will not let his 7th grade year at this school be miserable.
thanks for all your help guys...i sincerely appreciate it
patty

oh dewey

hey

cool your school has all those programs

see who is leading the programs
and ask the teacher if u can arrange it so that the kid bullying your son can have a prolonged LEADERSHIP ROLE

in the anti bullying program

im' also thinking that even though they learn about a virtue

it would be good if they actually find a way to practice it

that way, they are focused on doing something good

have the bully kid lead that as well

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
arrange it so that
> the kid bullying your son can have a prolonged
> LEADERSHIP ROLE
>
> in the anti bullying program
>

thats a good idea and i also talked to the computer teacher about maybe incorporating some lessons on cyber bullying into his curriculum if possible. he said he already talks about how to respond or how not to respond to cyber bullies but i`m not sure how indepth it is
patty

get your computer teacher to instigate an assignment in which the students write a paper on

1) why cyber bullying occurs
2) why it is wrong
3) what could be done to counter it

that way the bully kid is not singled out but he has to think about it and write about it

pro active is always good

much better than TELLING

if he is DOING

it forces him to think

anything is possible

life is full of strange surprises