amazing documentary on CBC tonight about the impact of chemicals on reproductive health. scary though.

[mefeedia.com]

perhaps we'll become extinct. it's one solution to the human problem on planet earth.

Carsick Wrote:
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> DEPOPULATION!! they flood us with female mimicing
> hormones in our food and the plastics we use,
> thats why soya is added to everything now.
>
> the social architects also made abortion socially
> acceptable , euthanasia and sterilization next!
> well , its half way hear. all under the name of
> earth worship , the green movement , CO2 CO2 CO2 ,



They. They. They.

Where the hell do you get that soy reduces fertility? In case you haven't noticed China & Japan don't have any shortage of human beings.

Abortion should be legal. Euthanasia is one of the most fundamental human rights and population SHOULD be reduced. The planet won't support our burden forever.

narz, they use soy as a condiment in those countries, they actually eat it very sparingly. taken in such enormous amounts (as we do in north america now) it's extremely unhealthy. not only is soy one of the most genetically modified foods these days, it's full of phyto-estrogens, plant estrogens that do mimic estrogen in the body. certainly that encourages developmental issues, especially in boys but take a look at how early females are reaching sexual maturity these days. also, i've read that early maturity is common in species on the brink of extinction (on the brink meaning here close by evolutionary standards, not a couple of decades or anything. though we are "evolving" or changing faster than we ever have before).

carsick, i rarely post on the board these days, really only when i'm passing along something of interest or importance that i feel fits in here. i would kindly ask you not to undermine the validity of this issue with parnoid extremism. i am not being fasecious here, i am genuinely asking you to please discuss this issue, that of plastics/chemicals and their affect on reproductive health without resorting to paranoid speculation and bringing, of all things, abortion and euthenasia into it. i think it deserves serious thought and discussion and i feel a little put out that the responses have so quickly deteriorated to something so offtopic and, frankly, valueless to this issue. there is too much argueing here in the political threads. let's try to keep it to a minimum, please. (you know you two can argue via PM)

thanks!

I have yet to see any evidence of soy making boys more girly. Plastics, yeah, that's common knowledge. I avoid drinking &/or eating out of plastic as much as possible but I feel the "horrible" effects of soy is completely overblown.

it's the same thing though. estrogen from plastic, estrogen from plants... where do you see a difference exactly?

i think we are seeing a cumulative effect, that of increasing infertility in males. that isn't all down to plastic, surely. i'm certain that diet plays a role and that enormous amounts of phyto estrogens from soy must have an effect. it can't be zero effect at that level. i mean, soy is in virtually Every processed, packaged food these days. it's added to meat products, it's in everything! most people are eating a gigantic amount of it without ever even knowing it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2008 07:42PM by coco.

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it's the same thing though. estrogen from plastic, estrogen from plants... where do you see a difference exactly?

If you don't see the different between natural & synthetic, why are you here?

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i'm certain that diet plays a role and that enormous amounts of phyto estrogens from soy must have an effect.

I'm not.

Dairy also contains estrogens. And all males have some estrogen in their body (and a healthy man can regulate it). The Mongols ate tons of dairy & they were the biggest bad-asses on the planet.

you're reaching. and you're being a smart-ass too. if you want a throw down i'll give it but are you sure you can take me on big boy?

such a rabble rouser. i came back here three times today to scrabble with you. that's a record for me these days.


alrighty, there is certainly a difference between natural and manipulated, but that's not really the arguement. unnatural or naturally sourced, hormones have an enormous impact on individual health. messing with hormones is a very serious business, it's not a joke At all and it just can't be said that it doesn't matter. as i said, consuming such massive amounts of soy and, as you mentioned, dairy if it leads to unnaturally high levels of estrogen in the male body will have an effect on that body. that is a natural fact, you are what you eat and what leads to that healthy male body being able to regulate itself is directly related to the inherent health of that body via diet and other factors. garbage in, garbage out. or, in this case, mass amounts of estrogen in, not many effective swimmers out. one has only to look at the current state of reproductive health these days to see something very out of whack. i would be very interested to hear your thoughts on that subject if you have an alternative theory.

one note, so many women using oral contraceptives and pissing the excess estrogen out into the water supply has been shown to have an impact too. plastic production adds faux estrogen to the water we all consume as well. these are both factors but i still believe that consuming large amounts of phyto-estrogens impacts hormonal health. there is just no way that one could eat that many soybeans in their daily diet, as it is added to foods it equals quite a large amount.

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you're reaching. and you're being a smart-ass too. if you want a throw down i'll give it but are you sure you can take me on big boy?

Heh, if I could get permission, you know I would.

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such a rabble rouser. i came back here three times today to scrabble with you. that's a record for me these days.

I'm always keeping 'em coming back for more.

Seriously, I understand what you're saying. I just think the soy - infertility link is weak at best. It's part of the problem but not the main part. Hormones directly into cattle & chickens is probably far worse & probably it would be better to mess with a few soy burgers that eat hormone pumped chicken breasts on the regular.

Obviously minimal soy (which is mostly GMO) AND zero hormone filled animal products would be best but if I had to choose between some soy product & a factory farmed chicken, I'd take the soy (between soy & a free range organic chicken, I'd take the chicken but I'm not allowed to say that).

CB--

All you have to do is look at the volumes and volumes of research posted on the internet about the dangers of soy. It's not made up. A good place to research that is Dr. Mercola's website. I've known for several years that tofu and other soy products are something to steer clear of.

On a personal, anecdotal level, every one of my friends who eats soy has ended up with thyroid problems. (Soy, among other things, disrupts thyroid function.) Coco is right that we eat tons more soy here than the Japanese, who use it very sparingly.

Sharrhan:


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Dr. Mercola also says that veganism is deadly unhealthy.

Look, I'm not saying soy is the manna of God, I'm just saying a little bit won't hurt you.

AFAIK, soy is more hazardous to women than men & I still have yet to see any research that soy causes reproductive harm in men (if someone wants to post some I'd be open to reading it & being convinced).

i think anything in small amounts is fine (including the "forbidden" foods) but on a larger scale is a different story. sure, a bit of soy isn't going to have much impact over all. but a small amount of plastic manufacturing isn't either. unfortunately that's not what's going on at all. it's tragic but on the other hand if humans make themselves extinct all the deadly problems of the world disappear along with them. sad but true.

Maybe reduced fertility is a good thing anyway.

My little middle developed a sensitivity to soy. It became so bad that a stick of gum with soy lecithin made her so sick she almost didn't make it home and to the toilet. I didn't realize it was in so many foods. Her naturopath had said she had seen about 8 cases of this "sensitivity" happening. She doesn't react so violently any more, but I am convinced that soy is an unhealthy food. If we are going to have a cooked burger we will make it bean . She also has strong reactions to dairy and artificial additives.

it's interesting how many people are developing sensitivities to foods that have been eaten for years. i really do think that issues like toxins and vaccines play a role in our body's ability to deal with challenges. of course no one is really studying this or talking about it on a large scale. we are the testing ground for so many things. good thing we know better and are learning more every day.

my friend has a recipe for veggie burgers made from whole rolled oats and shredded veggies that is really quite delicious. i might get it from her and try it over the winter months. i'm at a loss as to what to eat right now, it's hard feeding three different appetites!

Here's a delicious recipe I used to make for my kids. It's from the LaLeche League Cookbook -- Whole Foods for the Whole Family

*********

Oriental Oats

1 to 2 C. chopped or sliced vegetables: onions,
sprouts, mushrooms, broccoli, etc.

4 T. Oil or butter

1 1/2 C. rolled oats

3/4 C. liquid: broth, stock

Saute vegetables in 2 T. oil. Cook oats in remaining oil until dry and separate, 3 to 5 minutes. Add liquid and vegetables. Simmer until liquid is absorbed, stirring occasionally.

wow, cool recipe lois. thanks!

Holy crap, I'm just watching this now. Scary stuff. I'm so grateful I had a daughter & not a son.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's interesting how many people are developing
> sensitivities to foods that have been eaten for
> years. i really do think that issues like toxins
> and vaccines play a role in our body's ability to
> deal with challenges. of course no one is really
> studying this or talking about it on a large
> scale. we are the testing ground for so many
> things. good thing we know better and are learning
> more every day.
>

Good point. Everybody seems to be oversensitive to something or other, if not downright allergic. It's crazy. My own theory is somewhat like yours, i.e., the involvement of vaccines & other poisonous substances. When your poor liver is loaded up with these things and can no longer detoxify itself, then somehow food sensitivity results, tho of course I don't understand the mechanics of it. As you say, no one seems to be studying this too much.

Another thing - and this fellow was specifically talking about soyfoods - is that we should eat according to our ethnicity. His name is Ed Baumann.

[www.planetorganics.com]