Hey everybody, when people post crazy-crazy, nasty stuff on the board, what if we just don't respond? I should have done that long ago, but I get sucked in sometimes, imagining (foolishly) that I can make a difference by stating the obvious or trying to make a point. Most of the time, it's better to leave well enough alone and not bother responding in these cases. I vote we BOYCOTT inappropriate POSTS-- that is, just don't respond. Read it or don't read it, but don't reply.

It's one thing to post your opinion and have civil discourse; it's another thing to continually spew this kind of inappropriate, vindictive and illogical garbage that we are seeing so frequently on the O.T. forum.

This way, those who insist upon posting inflammatory messages retain the right to express themselves, but we do nothing to aid and abet them in their quest for drama and contention.

And at the same time that we avoid these posts, we can make it a point to flood the board with positive, inspiring, thoughtful and interesting messages so that the people will start coming back to the O.T. board. We don't want everybody to leave the forum altogether, and I feel that that's what's been happening.

What are people's thoughts?

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

If you weren't so rude and offending and obnoxious to people that you disagree with then perhaps this WOULD be a more comfortable place to post. I can't believe the moderator lets you talk to people the way you do. It is so vile and toxic.

RocketShip , there are plenty of rude and offending obnoxious people here including you at the moment, sharrhans trying to negotiate peace on here and you just waltz right in and be just as vile and toxic as you claim her to be

if yourre not part of the solution youre part of the problem

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sharrhans trying to negotiate peace on
> here

Is that really how you see it?

Hmm.

It looks like an attempt at manipulation to me.

Kwan said -

Quote

when people post crazy-crazy, nasty stuff on the board

Quote

inappropriate POSTS-

Quote

it's another thing to continually spew this kind of inappropriate, vindictive and illogical garbage

Quote

those who insist upon posting inflammatory messages

Gee, what posts were they? Who posted it? I've been on this board daily and I never saw any of that type of thing happening. I only saw information given out in the form of articles, with a link to the source, and sometimes a quote from the article, and sometimes a personal commentary or opinion pertaining to the article.

I certainly have never seen any posts that were 'crazy' 'nasty stuff' 'inappropriate' and I never saw anybody 'spewing inappropriate, vindictive and illogical garbage' about any other member of the board.

Would you please provide references as proof or quotes or links of such abusive behavior, because that is a very serious accusation you're making, bordering on being 'rude' 'abusive' and 'attacking' whoever you're referring to.

RocketShip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> It looks like an attempt at manipulation to me.

sounds like your paranoid to me

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

lol...

Another way to deal with contention is that everyone take a course in argumentation theory so that truth comes out, rather than personal attacks.

Also the ability to accept new evidence is one of the key points behind Argumentation theory, AND also the ability to keep your cool and not force evidence down people unwilling to accept it...Otherwise it starts to sound like two dogmas.

Kombaiyashii Wrote:
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> lol...
>
> Another way to deal with contention is that
> everyone take a course in argumentation theory so
> that truth comes out, rather than personal
> attacks.
>

You can be our mentor. I enjoy reading your posts.

The best way to deal with someone SEEKING conflict is to ignore them completely. Don't even click on their threads.

If you deprive such a person of the conflict they seek, they will become bored and go away.

(Living up to the former is the difficult part.)

I checked back here in the Other Topics portion of the forum tonight to see what kind of responses there were to my thread where I declared my intentions to leave this portion of the forums as the postings here were far too contentious for my mental health & well being..

I noticed this thread & stopped here to check it out after I completed reading the posts on my thread..I was hoping to see that members were willing to ease up & cool off a bit..No surprise, really, that things are still bad here..

I can see that my decision to leave is a necessary one for me, as even kwan's honest attempt with this thread to try & cool things off is being met with great contempt, derision, & animosity..

After reading all the posts on this thread I left it & finished a task that I started the other night before I started my goodbye thread..

What I started to do the other night, & finished tonight, was to compile a list starting June 1, 2008 of the most frequent posters here in the Other Topics Forum..I clicked onto a great number of the posts (more than 50%) in order to gain a sense of what the OP was trying to convey..What I was trying to accomplish was to fix in my mind those people that were starting threads that were designed to rile people up..I was also trying to gain a sense of those members that were the most contentious..Going back 6 months was necessary I felt, in order to try & gain a clear understanding of things here as I have only been visiting the Other Topics portion of the forums for a little less than 2 months..I wanted to try & be as fair as I could be to the members here before deciding to leave..

The other night my eyes simply got tired before I completed the task I had set myself..I had gotten a good enough sense of how things were here to make the decision to leave..So I went ahead & wrote the thread & posted it..Tonight, however, I was castigating myself for not finishing what I had started out to do..So, to be as completely fair as I was willing to be, I went ahead & completed the list..

Below is a list of all of the people that have started five or more threads beginning June 1, 2008..The list is in descending order with the greatest number of thread starts at the top of the list..

After the list I will summarize my thoughts..

127 threads--- Lois
74 threads---- kwan
46 threads---- Omega
41 threads---- Joanne81
34 threads---- Jgunn & coco
31 threads---- Jose
27 threads---- la_veronique
26 threads---- elnatural_1
24 threads---- riverhousebill
21 threads---- communitybuilder
13 threads---- dewey
8 threads----- brome
7 threads----- musicbebe
6 threads----- arugula, globalresult, & Kombaiyashii
5 threads----- itzdavey, Lightform, & baltochef

Out of a possible 673 threads that were started since June 1, 2008 the above 20 members on the list started a total of 546 out of 673 posts..It is plain to see for all that care to which members have started the greatest number of threads..These same members also in general tend to be the most prolific posters..

While not true in the case of every member on the list, the trend that I perceived was for the people at the top of the list to be most contentious..I do not generally point fingers at others as I myself am far from perfect..I am going to make an exception here as I think someone needs to do so..While there are other members not on the list that are just as contentious, the folks on the list have engaged in more than most of the contentious behavior of late..

In my opinion the following members need to cool off the tenor & wording of their posts here on the Other Topics forum for a while..Dudes & dudettes, you all need to go back & re-read what you have written over the past several months..There are some really disturbing posts there..

Lois
kwan (I know you are trying because of this thread)
Jgunn
riverhousebill
communitybuilder

Now, lest you 5 think I am picking on you I KNOW that none of you act the way that you do here on Other Topics when you are posting on other areas of the forum..I've read FAR too many of your posts elsewhere on the forums to doubt what I've just said..ALL of you are civil when posting elsewhere..

My question to the 5 of you, as well as all the other members that choose to say nasty things here, is this:

"Why do all of you feel so free to be nasty, use openly derogatory language, sling mud, etc. , here in the Other Topics forum, when you CHOOSE to act & write civilly when posting in the other areas of the forum??"..

This is why I ultimately decided not to post here in Other Topics any longer..The fact that so many members seem to feel that it is a verbal free-for-all here is quite disturbing..I do not know how you folks conduct yourselves in real life, but the bi-polar Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde nature of many of your postings lately is more than I care to associate myself with..

This will truly be my last post over here for at least 6 months..Any comments directed to me in the Other Topics forum will not be responded to..PM me if you feel a need to..I wiil not respond to any PM that contains uncivil language..

I wish everyone here all the best & it is my hope that many of you can let go of some of the animosity & heal a little..

Bruce

Hi Bruce. Since you singled me out as one of the top five jerk-extraordinaries, can you point to me an example of where I am being a big meanie to a fellow poster? Thanks!

BTW, I disagree that we should ignore big-meanies. I think we should post new threads about how best to deal with them instead.

Bruce, you didn't like my Rachmaninov post?

(Sulking)

See, now look what you've done Bruce! By giving attention to bad behavior you're going to turn our good girl bad! You big jerk!

Hey Bruce!
Sent you a PM. I have a different take on the whole thing, but I appreciate your trying to sort this O.T. forum mess out.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Shucks, I hope Jgunn doesn't leave.

Come back Jgunn!

You too Baltochef.

And where is pakdforfun?

I think I'm an instigator, but I don't mean to be.

suncloud Wrote:
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> I think I'm an instigator, but I don't mean to be.

I do (mean to be)! Can you imagine a world without instigators...

I haven't seen any 'nasty' and 'derogatory' posts...I just see a stubborness on this board to not accepting or addressing new evidence and then demagoguery to try to make them.

Again, to remedy this...look into argumentation theory and logical fallacies.

It seems as though no one agrees with me on this forum but I am pretty civil and I've seen no ill posts directed at me or the other way around.

I like good fiery debates, still people need to grow a little and learn to accept new evidence at least so the debate can move onto stage 2...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2008 08:11AM by Kombaiyashii.

I'm not quite sure what it matters who "started" the most posts, so I did my own research and looked up the number of postings by the various members of this board in the last 30 days --

******

Lois - 145

Kwan - 143

Jgunn - 124

communitybuilder - 116

Sundancer - 108

suncloud - 94

Omega - 73

riverhousebill - 26

******

So like what difference does it make who 'started' the most posts - isn't the number of postings by each individual what's important?

It makes no difference how many threads or posts anyone makes. It's also totally and absolutely okay for people to express their political opinions. What isn't okay is for people to use deliberately use inflammatory language that provokes others into a retaliatory responsive mode.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

hmmmmm...
very interesting

first of all, i did enjoy arugula's rachmaninov's post

second of all, just the fact that people are having this discussion at all is a pretty good indicator that there is no TRUE animosity... perhaps, there is simply a need to understand, connect, be understood but words are really a paltry way of doing so

the chances for being misunderstood is VERY HIGH on a board like this where only letters strung together can stand in place for the person's

1) mind
2) all their life experiences that led up to their perspective
3) intent
4) state of spirit

etc. etc. etc.

that is why people read books or watch films because they are able to then go UNDERNEATH all the purportedly incendiary personality / persona of a certain individual and then get to reach some sort of

u
n
d
e
r
s
t
a
n
d
i
n
g

but we don't have 267 pages here to create a personal novel that will lift the roof off of our skulls to reveal who we REALLY are and how we TRULY feel and WHY

we only give off CLUES that some people mistake for the ENTIRETY of the person

i've been on this board long enough to see the validity in almost ALL of the posters' comments here

also, sometimes it can't be helped that if a person is very PASSIONATE about certain views that they feel are integral to who they are

if someone counters that

it can APPEAR to be a personal attack

sometimes i feel that underlying the so called "retaliatory" tone, the person(s) is simply voicing their feelings of disenchantment disillusion and perhaps disappointment that they have been unable to make a true

mental emotional or spiritual connection with other(s)

a LOT of the viewpoints I see here ... and I am speaking of BOTH sides
give something to ponder

sometimes, it would seem an almost impossibility to be impartial

because impartiality can be seen as a sign of weakness or conceding to what one feels is outrageous

yes, everyone , especially myself, can stand to improve one's communication skills

i , however, hope that most of the people here realize that underneath all this

seeming contention

i perceive that there has ALWAYS been an underlying attempt

towards conciliatory relations

and that people's true intention is not to attack

but to be understood

or to understand

and when it is too difficult to accept another's point of view

one revolts because to "accept" would seem to go against one's own very being

and it is not easy to "accept" sometimes
when one feels so passionately about the contrary view

at any rate,

i feel pretty blessed to be amongst a motley crew

that is passionate about very important, pressing and significant issues

passionately expressing an opposing view does NOT always constitute an ATTACK

though, sometimes it may seem less than amiable
especially if it is contrary to one's own point of view

i tend to read all points of view

whether they agree with me or not

and ponder them til i figure out what it is in the opposing point of view that
i disagree with

then i spend an equal amount of time trying to figure out how i could also understand why that person would hold that point of view

at any rate, i don't believe that those who post the highest
are the most belligerent

perhaps, they are the most passionate posters

and ought to be respected for holding independent point of views

a view is simply the opposite side of the same coin

lawyers implicitly ( if not explicitly) understand this

which is why they are passionately able to engage in EITHER side of the issue
because they are FORCED to defend either side

i am not saying that one should not hold a singular opinion

i am saying that one needs to respect how very difficult it can be to nonchalantly accept another person's point of view

at times

each person has had a myriad of different experiences which can be DRASTICALLY different from what another person has experienced

and unless u are that person, it may seem inimicus to really "relate" to what they are saying

anyhow, strangely enough, i feel that people on this board ( including the OT)
has been more respectful than other boards

FAR more so, in fact

focus more on the fact that people here have tried many times and in many ways to connect with each other

in a respectful manner

and that when people 'clash'

it does not necessarily mean that disrespect was intended

perhaps it meant, that a vital issue needed to be addressed fair and square
( in that person's opinion) and that there was no other way that this issue could be addressed without being overt about it

i am not talking about any person in particular even

we ALL are passionate about certain issues

this is nothing to be ashamed of

if anything, be proud of it

i balk at the prospect of listening to a homogenous crew who all nod and smile at each other because they have no other differing point of view

so , i understand that the main contention here was that people were being onerous and rude

I can also choose to look behind, underneath and over that so called "rudeness'

and simply LISTEN to the MAIN point of what the person is trying to get at

usually i find something to agree with

though not always in its entirety

which is fine

one shouldn't have to be totally in sync with every person's view

NICE post, LaVeronique. Thanks! I felt it was time to bring up the subject because I saw the possibility that we were heading into some pretty stormy waters if we didn't reign in some of our more caustic interactions, but now everything is looking good. As Jodi (jgunn) often says: "Onward and upward!"

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

or as jennifer aniston would say

"next, move on"

LOL

la veronique: Great post on endeavoring to see all sides of the picture/debate.

Everyone else: I've sent a message to John about starting a Politics forum. Creating a new forum is easy. Its moving all the messages that are political from the OT forum to the new Politics forum that will take some time. If John says yes, I'll create the new forum.

Cool as.. thanks Bryan.

Great, Bryan-- thanks!!

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

HA HA this is funny
cuz there will always be contention no matter WHAT is discussed

the contention is just more compartmentalized now

happy timezzz

in my opinion , when half the threads and posts of OT are of a political nature then it truly deserves its own place ..and now it has

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I loved your post LaV.

I feel much the same way about the passion on this OT forum as LaV expressed in her post.

I wanted to say that I didn't start posting and visiting here less because of any contention. I have a lot going on right now, that's all.

I love all you guys!!

We love you too, Kise! Miss your warmth and wit.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

After reading this thread, I am mortally afraid of venturing onto the Politics forum. So back to Living and Raw Foods Discussion with me, away!