The yogis have pretty well managed to mystify meditation by mixing it with stupid promises of becoming godmen.

Yet mathematicians routinely increase the density of their brains through their line of work without making a fuss about it.

The old philosophers of the west were all great mathematicians, paraselsus, John Dee, Newton (the alchemist), pythagoras and even the philosophers of the Middle East, Thabit Ibn Qurra, Abu Musa Jabir ibn Hayyan and remnants of the Zoroasterians. The Chinese before the commies destroyed their culture went hand in hand with meditation and math with Zhao Youqin among many others. The mind much prefers numbers than words because words can change throughout time, while numbers are the language of the universe. This subconscious speaks through symbols and numbers, by learning the language of numbers, the subconscious has a much easier time relaying messages to you and vice versa.

Mathematics was a key to their way of expanding the mind (by quite literally expanding their brains). It is like building a Autobahn and contemplation is flying down it.

This is a place where even science agrees.

[www.ajnr.org]

Meditation is important but so is hard work. Math is like working out, meditation is like the restoration.

I'm guessing that any type of activity where you are making a lot of new neural connections increases your grey matter. And focusing in on any activity or mental problem with deep concentration and intent-- be it jazz improvisation or creating a painting-- is a form of meditation, no?

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Yes. I totally agree.

Can't understand why so many people in this world are content to not know calculus, differential equations, linear algebra, complex variables.

But professional mathematicians, those are another league entirely. In the stratosphere.

Least we can do is learn enough to appreciate their work.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm guessing that any type of activity where you
> are making a lot of new neural connections
> increases your grey matter. And focusing in on any
> activity or mental problem with deep concentration
> and intent-- be it jazz improvisation or creating
> a painting-- is a form of meditation, no?


I agree to an extent but try doing some very basic mental arithmatic, just add up some numbers in your head, it will give you a headache

Music certainly helps, especially reading music and playing it from a sheet...The old philosophers were not only mathematicians but were musicians...They had four main subjects which were maths, music, alchemie & reason. These were subdivided down into more...Improv gives you freedom but being bombarded with complicated information such as a piano piece put in front of you for the first time is very difficult to do...Art can be a huge mistake but still be good.

It actually says in that study I provided about classically trained musicians, they also had very different brain makeups...I don't think this will apply to somone who can bash out the pentatonics while high on weed.

Another group which was quite interesting were London taxi drivers, they had increased brain matter. This is no surprise to me, they must be doing all kinds of crazy calculations and calling up distant memories a lot. Although at most, they will be tested about once every thirty minutes...That isn't exactly much when you think about it

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. I totally agree.
>
> Can't understand why so many people in this world
> are content to not know calculus, differential
> equations, linear algebra, complex variables.
>
> But professional mathematicians, those are another
> league entirely. In the stratosphere.
>
> Least we can do is learn enough to appreciate
> their work.

Yes but most mathematicians aren't number crunching all day, some do a lot of it but a lot sit back, though they do WAY more than average people.

Back in the day, people did it like we do bench presses today

Good grief.
Being that I was an "f" student in math,and that algebra twisted my mind into places and shapes it was never meant to go in,I dont find myself sitting around doing math problems.
But give me a chunk of wood and I make plenty of grey matter.


Brian

[Yes but most mathematicians aren't number crunching all day]

Number crunching is arithmetic. Most mathematicians don't do arithmetic. Instead, they develop new proofs and theorems, which is orders of magnitude more difficult. And yes, some of them do work on problems all day, day after day. When I was in school it was a good 8-12 hours 5 days a week, and average 6 hour days on weekends, mostly math.

"When I was in school it was a good 8-12 hours 5 days a week, and average 6 hour days on weekends, mostly math."

Goodness,how did you get through THAT?

I admire you for doing that.
I would have dropped out.

Maybe I should do some math...to keep my brain young?
My father does two crossword puzzles a day.

I play chess & other board games & verbally joust with people online.

LOL I just read my above posts and laughed because I was just trying to psyche myself up for a good round of 'arithmatic...'

communitybuilder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I play chess & other board games & verbally joust
> with people online.


Yes that's a great thing to do as well...

There is also Wei Chi.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm guessing that any type of activity where you
> are making a lot of new neural connections
> increases your grey matter. And focusing in on any
> activity or mental problem with deep concentration
> and intent-- be it jazz improvisation or creating
> a painting-- is a form of meditation, no?


I would be very surprised if Kwan is wrong !

Raw1228 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Goodness,how did you get through THAT?

You get used to it. But I confess, there were many times when I longed for a day when my brain would be my own for me to think my own thoughts.

>
> I admire you for doing that.
> I would have dropped out.

Most people do! They switch to easier majors. But, to be really good at something, to become great, you need about 10 years of 3-6 hours per day, that goes for just about anything: chess, math, piano playing, etc.

> Maybe I should do some math...to keep my brain
> young?
> My father does two crossword puzzles a day.

I think crosswords are great but math stimulates parts of the brain like nothing else. You could take algebra and trig at your local community college, then go on to calculus and differential equations. Then, it starts to get really fun, but you have to go to a university for more.

Agreed Arugula...While meditation is controversial, math is well documented to increase your brain size like weight training increases muscle size.

I still obviously believe very much in meditation, it's just that math will greatly help it.

personally I think any activity where there is the potential for play and spontaneity and fun beats out any activity where rules and systems and 'practice' factor in as far as true growth.

from what I hear this is an increasing trend in contemporary ed.

I certainly have respect for people refining even the most esoteric of practices with dedicated study but there is certainly the concept of economy that factors in. if someone discovers the route best taken to expand their consciousness or practice through a process of their own creation...they'll arrive there before anyone following in a 'academic' or established fashion.

I don't in any way think there is a single practice of civilization such as mathematics (and I've taken 4 semesters of college calculus ) that is necessary to stimulate brain growth, as is we only use a very small percentage of the matter we do have. I'm not saying its wrong, as I wouldn't argue with someone that says fish is brain food...well there might be other brain food or better brain food, but people can pick their 'poison' so to speak as they can pick their practices, not really my business to argue.

sometimes I can spend 10-12 hrs in the 'now' of a creative project. I don't really consider it completely on par with meditation - which requires a specific intention...but its certainly close. similar: staring at a fire or ocean or enjoying a long bike ride as 'meditation'...its all good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 05:29PM by anaken.

Quote

staring at a fire or ocean or enjoying a long bike ride as 'meditation'...its all good.

I love those things!

i would have to be a fairly desperate person
to be doing math in order to deepen my meditation
if anything, math is extremely distracting
especially when u get into the higher modes
endless paths, then u hit a wall... then hang out at that corner for a while
then fork in the road then hit another wall....
all the walls can be jarring
it detracts from the meditative state
plus sitting in a chair staring at an equation is ( in my book)
not a good way to utilize my time
when i could be doing other things

musicians are all applied mathematicians, by the way
all harmonics ( and discordances) have a mathematical equation, model, nodes, intersections etc.

art is not a "big mistake"

absence of art is a ginormous error

not only that

but it is impossible

that is like the absence of air

art will always exist

even if it is just a tiny dot above the letter "I"

it all depends on how u perceive it

increasing brain size
for what?
to be able to think?
for what?
to be able to reason?
for what?

to be able to love?
and yet something tells me that
love is rather simple
and uncomplicated

and a newborn baby does just this
when they stare at the world
afresh and new

in wonder

and their brains have not even developed yet

la veronique,
I had those same exact thoughts back when I was sitting in my 5th grade math class.
hahahah!

Brian

It's a complete myth that we use less than 10% of our brains. We use all parts at different times.

How much of our potential we actually use is debatable, anyone who has had any experience will think we use very little but the yogis pretend that it's a scientific fact.

Math was used back in the mystery schools in ancient greece along with meditation and all other sorts of things. My guessing is that math was to work the brain one way while meditation and breathing exercises goes the other.

I provided scientific evidence that we can actually increase the density of our brains as an athlete, his muscles.

Personally I think having more grey matter will help you in meditation, as the greecs believed.

blue cookie monster
gimme a pear
blue cookie monster
gimme an apple
blue cookie monster
gimme a banana
blue cookie monster
gimme some grey matter

yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmy

m
e
d
i
t
a
t
i
o
n

me and oscar will hang out for a while
and meditate

Me and Count will do some meditation after a little bit of counting



1, ah ah ah
2, ah ah ah
3, ah ah ah

You guys are too cute!

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

me me me me me ME ~!

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> increasing brain size
> for what?
> to be able to think?
> for what?
> to be able to reason?
> for what?
>
> to be able to love?
> and yet something tells me that
> love is rather simple
> and uncomplicated
>
> and a newborn baby does just this
> when they stare at the world
> afresh and new
>
> in wonder
>
> and their brains have not even developed yet


Babies can't survive in the world. What man or woman wants to be in a relationship with a baby?

A baby can't control his/her emotions. A baby is victim to circumstances.

Art comes from the brain just as math, love comes from the brain. A healthy brain = healthy emotions = a healthy life.

A healthy mind makes achieving physical health easier.

Why achieve physical health?

That's up to you.

> increasing brain size
> for what?
> to be able to think?
> for what?
> to be able to reason?
> for what?

It's about maximizing one's potential during one's brief stay on the planet. I feel good about knowing that I took it as far as I could go with it.

>not a good way to utilize my time
>when i could be doing other things

I suspect that most people who have this sentiment would consider it to be more worthwhile if they'd gone further with it when younger. Although the brain has great plasticity, it's a lot easier to be drawn to something if you are a. pretty good at it from the onset, and b. have had sufficient exposure in youth.

I had both for music and math. But I am completely lacking in mechanical know-how, like fixing things when they break esp. cars and home depot stuff, crafts, sewing, things like that.

arugulopolis:

<<It's about maximizing one's potential during one's brief stay on the planet. I feel good about knowing that I took it as far as I could go with it.>>

How do you know?
Its not the end of the path for you yet.

Are u just talking about math ? or other stuff?

This is my favorite quote:

" By attempting the impossible one can attain the highest leve of the possible."
by August Strinberg ( 1849 - 1912 Sweden)

Here is another quote I like:

" We must remind ourselves as often as possible that our true life is not this external, material life that passes efore our eyes here on Earth but that it is the inner life of our spirit for which the visible life serves only as a scaffolding- a necessary aid to our spiritual growth ... We must remind oursevels and one another that the scaffolding has no meaning or importance, except to make possible the erection of the building itself"

Leo Tolstoy ( 1828 - 1910 Russia)

Okay, so basically, what I was attempting to say was that the grey matter was the scaffolding... and my question was ....What is the "building" for each person.?

arugula:

concerning your comment on math:

<<I suspect that most people who have this sentiment would consider it to be more worthwhile if they'd gone further with it when younger>>

It is obvious that you revere this scaffolding more than I. Math is only an indicator of what is possible and the infinite limitlessness of paradigms as well as possibilities. I prefer to explore those possibilities outside of pencil and paper. I have had my fill of mathematical banquet feasts. There is a time to feast and a time to leave the banquet hall and explore life.

Who says Aruguala is not persuing pure mind as well trying to be able to quickly solve complex mathematical problems?

Ye, K....i

They are not mutually exclusive. Also building up the brain implies that there will be greater capacity in many other areas. It isn't just the specific abstract thought in the frontal regions, but all the circuitry to and from this region that connect various parts of the brain to other parts will also be stimulated more, and thus better developed.

To me this means a enhanced capacity in general, for all endeavors that require concentrated thought.

Yes well that's what the Greecs believed as it utilises many meditative skills...Visualisation is one of them where the great mathematician etches the equation into his mind very clearly. Multitasking is another, where he has to remeber one thing while introducing the next part and working that out at the same time, the more he can multitask, the more difficult the equation he can work out. Short term memory is very important in math also.

When I do math, I can literally feel where I'm allocating different areas in my brain for different parts of the equation. I'm like "Hey, I need this for later so I'll just leave it 'here' for now" and I feel the part of my brain I was talking about must have been a bit where I keep some of my short term memory. I'm not saying this is exactly how the brain works but it is something I've noticed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2008 10:42PM by Kombaiyashii.

<<Multitasking is another, where he has to remeber one thing while introducing the next part and working that out at the same time>>

i think card dealers are experts at this
i saw one in action
he blew me away

i thought he had a computer in his brain
but he probably did math problems his entire life
in order to keep things straight