So interesting this discussion is to me

I use to be a rather dogmatic bible banger in my youth, I would preach in the streets about Jesus and his love and pass out bibles in mexico. I loved the Lord and followed the teachings of fundimentalist christians. I had a terrable situation when my husband at the time who professed to be a holy preacher of God did some real awful things in the name of God. He was a very evil man and so very misdirected. I attempted to go to church however the people seemed so out of touch with the truth. they really did not even know anything about the bible they read. The only thing they followed was the docterine their church taught and rairly listened to their own intuitions. They did not follow God but they followed the doctern of their church. People in the church blaimed mostly all bad situations and thoughts on satan as if he were as powerful as God.

For the past two years I have been changing my diet to become raw and am finding the more I clean up my diet the more I feel closer to spirituality and the more aware I become of spirituality the more I realize how ignorant I really am.

I have noticed when my diet is not clean I become farther away from spiritual growth. The closest I felt so far was when I was doing the Master cleanse diet, Even though it is not the healthiest diet I started feeling a release from some past issues that were very hurtful.

I am surprised at this realization of a clean diet and a spiritual mind.

Globalresult, it is unfortunate you are so combative on this subject There are always going to be people who chose to take the selfish road or the easier path and knowingly hurt, tear down, disrupt the people who want to follow Gods way. Jesus is the greatest example of one who attempted to make a change and he was crusified. I am sure the same thing would happen in this day if Jesus were to do it again. We all have the power of love the power of spirituality and the ability to know God.
As far as what you said about child molesters, My children were molested by a very "Godly" preacher man, their father. I have to forgive this man every day and have done so for many years and will have to for the rest of my life, because I know if I harbor unforgiveness in my heart, ( and I have in the past) I will not be any better than that man. It is a hard lesson to learn. God is love and God is real. The most important thing for a person to understand is their is nothing more important in life but love and one must persue and learn just what that is.
regards
Pam

Tamkuha,

How do you know I am Christian? YOu assume many things and you know what they say about this.

Your idea of God is in the rocks, toilets, pimps, molestors right?

I will insult you before insult God no problem with this for me.

Pampam,

Sorry to hear about your childrens being with this monster.

He will have his dues not to worry about that.

Important to forgive but not to forget.

Breathing is more important then love.

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I 'claim'
> I'm Perfect, and All-Knowing, and become so.

Good one.

But for now, even though I don't think of myself as perfect (yet), I don't really think I'm "bound" either, at least not to anything really bad on a permanent basis. Impossible! If I'm "bound", it's to something good, and the same for everybody!

Maybe the key word is "become". Perhaps what we "are" is more than what we're (temporarily) conscious of. And perhaps "become" is the passage from one place to the other. Or another way of saying it is that perhaps in one dimension - or on one level- we are perfect; in/on another (in the veiled world of maya that most of us currently inhabit) we are not. It's that lower level of imperfection that most of us temporarily inhabit that I was speaking of when saying that none of us are perfect.

Surely Wheatgrass Yogi, you are aware of an area within yourself that could presently stand a bit of improvement. I know that's true for me, and I haven't yet met anyone for whom it's not true. That's all I meant. We all have room for improvement in our thoughts/deeds, and none of us are consciously aware of all the knowledge of infinity.

In the passage you quote from Mark, Jesus said, "...thy faith hath made thee whole..."

I can go for that. Yes. But thoughts and words alone are not sufficient. I believe it takes practice. And we practice our faith by do that by practicing compassion towards others.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7, 21)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Pampam.

It took me so long to write my post that I didn't get to read your post first.

I agree with what you say: "God is Love and God is Real. The most important thing for a person to understand is there is nothing more important in life but love and one must persue and learn just what that is."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 12:51AM by suncloud.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surely Wheatgrass Yogi, you are aware of an area
> within yourself that could presently stand a bit
> of improvement.
Yes, of course.
>
> In the passage you quote from Mark, Jesus said,
> "...thy faith hath made thee whole..."
What I like so much about that scripture is
Jesus saying "Who touched me?". The Disciples replied
something like....'what do you mean who touched you....they're
hundreds of people touching you in this crowd'. But Jesus could
only feel the Touch of Faith.
> I can go for that. Yes. But thoughts and words
> alone are not sufficient. I believe it takes
> practice. And we practice our faith by do that by
> practicing compassion towards others.
We all practice our Faith in different ways....WY

I agree WY. Thank you for the reminder. I'd like to rephrase what I said before: The practice of compassion is one way to practice our faith.

And I love that part too, where Jesus suddenly becomes aware of the woman's touch. How did he tell her touch apart from the press of the crowd?!

With all the biblical scripture here, I thought I'd throw in just a few of Patanjali's yoga-sutras for whomever might be interested.

On Practice:

Clear And Distinct (Unimpaired) Discriminative Knowledge Is The means Of Liberation. 26.

Ahimsa (Non-Injury), Satya (Truth), Asteya (Abstention From Stealing), Brahmacharya (Continence) And Aparigraha (Abstinence From Avariciousness) Are The Five Yamas (Forms Of Restraint). 30.

(Truth and other forms of restraints and observances are based on the spirit of non-injury. They, being the means of fulfilment of non-injury, have been recommended in the Sastras for establishing Ahimsa. They are also the best means of making Ahimsa pure. - Vyasa)

(These restraints become a) Great Vow When They Become Universal, Being Unrestricted By Any Consideration Of Class, Place, Time Or Concept Of Duty. 31.

Cleanliness, Contentment, Austerity (Mental and Physical Discipline), Svadhyaya (Study) And Devotion To God Are The Niyamas (Observances). 32.

And so on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 03:30AM by suncloud.

globalresult,

"Tamkuha,

How do you know I am Christian? YOu assume many things and you know what they say about this.

Your idea of God is in the rocks, toilets, pimps, molestors right?

I will insult you before insult God no problem with this for me."

Boy, you still don't get it. And you're right; you may not be a Christian: a true follower of The Christ would never so carelessly misunderstand others nor so flippantly express a wish to insult someone, as though this were righteous in some way and a tribute to his God. The only people I've ever met who discussed things this way were dogmatists. And in my considerable experience, dogmatists are almost never really educated about what they believe. They just think they are. Good luck with that in life.

Tamkuha

What is a true follower of Christ?

Which example do you follow?

The Reak Jesus The essene Jesus

The time: 2003. The place: a New York restaurant. The scenario: A talking
carp began shouting at the hispanic food preparer who was about to turn
it into a meal. The restaurant owner came in to investigate and became
a second witness to the event. He determined that the carp was offering
religious advice in Hebrew. The New York Times reported the story, and
soon a local hasidic sect was proclaiming the fish's
message to be a direct communication from God. Though many people laugh with
derision when they hear this tale, I retain an open mind. The Divine Trick-
ster has appeared to me in equally unusual forms. What about you? Are you
crazy enough to listen to the wisdom of a talking carb? if not what have
you got to lose?

Lol! If I ever hear a fish start to talk, I will definitely listen!

(although I might not believe everything the fish says)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 08:27PM by suncloud.

global,

A true follower of The Christ lives by the Beatitudes. And that's the only definer, as far as I'm concerned. I have met almost NO true Christians amongst the Christians I have known, consequently. I am more or less a Zoroastrian, but I try to live by the Beatitudes because it's the message that matters, not the means.

In the early years of christianity, there where hundreds of
books interpreting the life and teachings of Jesus Crist.
But by 325 A.D., a group backed by the political and mil-
itary might of the Roman Empire had determined which
few stories about Crist would be thereafter be con-
sidered the canonical New Testament, and which would
be regarded as heretical bilge. No better evidence exist
for the saying, History is a tale told by the victors." keep
this in mind as you strategize your way through your per-
sonal War of Stories. Your account of events may
have more truth in it than everyone else's conflicting
tales, but that wont carry much weight unless you obtain
the power to enforce your version.

Good point riverhousebill.

I've read that Father Origen (185-253) believed in reincarnation and had a strong Christian following. Those beliefs were banned in the 5th Ecumenical Council (553) by Emperor Justinian. Neither Pope Vigilius nor any Roman bishop was present at the Council.

Then again, I've read that Father Origen didn't even believe in reincarnation, and that reincarnation was never addressed by the council.

And who knows how the scriptures themselves have changed.

Maybe, no matter what any of the scriptures say, we're mostly attracted to what we'd like to believe anyway. And that's OK. But I think it's wise to keep in mind that when quoting all these scriptures, they might not be the actual quote from someone named Jesus, and they might not portray the real story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2009 02:53AM by suncloud.

> Maybe, no matter what any of the scriptures say,
> we're mostly attracted to what we'd like to
> believe anyway. And that's OK. But I think it's
> wise to keep in mind that when quoting all these
> scriptures, they might not be the actual quote
> from someone named Jesus, and they might not
> portray the real story.

This reminds me of two contradictory accounts of Jesus instructing his apostles on what to take on their journey...

(Mt 10:10) "...take no bag for your journey, nor two tunics nor sandals, nor a staff..."

(Mk 6:8) "...take nothing for your journey except a staff; no bread, no bag, no money; but wear sandals..."


In a previous thread I was commenting how the apostles went barefoot, and Lois was saying she would take sandals, the Bible honestly not sure which, if either, Jesus said. Since then, I've heard the point was not to weigh oneself down with possessions and that what was truely needed would be provided as just wages for labor on the road.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2009 04:10PM by loeve.

Holy lands bombed again?

Some scholars believe the original Garden of Eden was where Iraq stands today.
Though remnants of that ancient paradise survived into modern time's many
were obliterated during the American war om Iraq in 2003. A Beuaty and truth
researcher who lives near the confluence of the Tiris and Euphrates Rivers kept
us posted on the fate of the most famous remnant: the Tree of the Knowledge of
Good and Evil. Until the invasion, it was a gnarled stump near Nasiryah. But
today it's gone; only a crater remains.

Let this serve as an evocative symbol for you as you demolish your old ideas
about paradis, freeing you to conjure a fresh vision of your realm.

I was thinking the most holiest of lands is India.

The land with a very mysterious history.

globalresult Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking the most holiest of lands is
> India.

There are so many vegetarians there! And definitely, the history of their spiritual scripture and practice goes way back in time.

> The land with a very mysterious history.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2009 07:27AM by suncloud.

I wonder how people felt in the presence of Jesus?
Maybe a Better question would be....How did Jesus feel in the
presence of others? But the Best question is....How do you feel
in the presence of others?? Are you a good representative of your
beliefs? Do you exude an Air-of-Confidence that other people
immediately feel? If not, get busy......WY

Suncloud,

Many years of Jesus's life was not accounted for rumour has it he was in India for some time learning his other trade and not typing about being a carpenter either.

Yes, a good possibility. And there may have been connections among Essene, Indian, and Egyptian ascetics. Egypt was a center for spiritual mysticism at the time, so it's possible Jesus may have gone there also. (I think that) according to the Bible, Jesus was 33 when he fasted and then gathered his disciples. Wouldn't it have been an adventure to have traveled with Jesus in those early years?!

These are two interesting sites:

[www.thenazareneway.com]

[www.atmajyoti.org]

Yes,

A fascinating character.

He should be romaing the earth right about now if you believe in reincarnation.

Would be interesting to what through this he is or would type of person he would of become.

Yes, very interesting. It's claimed that Jesus said he would return. Would Jesus have a job, and what kind of job would he have? Would Jesus be a beggar and preach in the streets? Would Jesus have a family?

One theory of reincarnation is that beings are reborn according to the Karma of their past lifetime(s). Not as a pay-back or reward, but as a means of attaining the body and the cirumstances that would be most beneficial for each soul's spiritual progress. Eventually, after many lifetimes, when all the necessary lessons have been learned, and when the being has therefore reached a state of spiritual perfection, then freedom from Karma is achieved. The being is no longer reborn, and will forever dwell in all-knowing consciousness, or perhaps with God.

Some Hindus believe that Jesus was an avatar, a perfect (or perfected) being, who comes to earth only to fulfill some special purpose.

I'm open-minded about whether or not any of these beliefs are true, except that the concept of Karma makes sense to me when I consider that I've probably learned SOMEthing beneficial from my past mistakes. Hopefully I won't repeat those mistakes - in this life or the next!

And I like the above theory of reincarnation, simply because it seems so forgiving and yet moves each of us forward.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2009 03:14AM by suncloud.

Suncloud,

Interesting questions and if a soul is like a seed and just like a seed that keeps getting replanted which loses it's power would this not be also be true of the soul?

Would the soul become less powerful each birth?

If this is true then maybe he is in a situation right now where many would think Jesus would not be doing this or that because once he was so elevated.

Or as you typed just comes down to the stage of life plays his part and never returns which I find kind of strange if re-incarnation was true because what would cause this soul to not re-incarnate?

They say Buddhas soul re-incarnates.

Hard to know the true answer to any of these questions.

Maybe all we can know is the "golden rule", and try to follow that as best we can.

Thanks,

I thought you might find the following site interesting

[reluctant-messenger.com]

Globalresult,

Yes, I do find the site interesting!

I'm looking forward to reading the title at the bottom, "Talmud of Jmmanuel", which is labeled "Really wild stuff" (don't have time tonight).

Thank you!

Don't often foray into this forum...yes, reluctantmessenger - found that site several years ago. Good to see it flagged here.

Hi I'm new

I recommend the following vids about Christian Mysticism


Spiritual Mastership Initiation - Vol 1 of 18 by Elizabeth MacDonald Burrows

[video.google.com]

Spiritual Mastership Initiation - Vol 2 of 18 by Elizabeth MacDonald Burrows

[video.google.com]


Spiritual Mastership Initiation - Vol 3 of 18 by Elizabeth MacDonald Burrows

[video.google.com]


Spiritual Mastership Initiation - Vol 4 of 18 by Elizabeth MacDonald Burrows

[video.google.com]

Spiritual Mastership Initiation - Vol 5 of 18 by Elizabeth MacDonald Burrows

[video.google.com]


her website [www.christianmysticism.org]



Encyclopedia Britannica has a good article about Christian Mysticism

[www.britannica.com]

On the right click on Aspects of the Christian religion (click the arrow head) and then scroll down to Christian Mysticism and click on it.


I also recommend the following e-book

[www.scribd.com]

Thank you illuminationhighrock. (great name!)

And welcome to the forum!

(Hi debbietook)