well im reaching out for some input to you folks , as my hubby and I are not really sure what to do.

My brother in law is hooked on crack , hes been on drugs since his 20's hes now 41 and living in a shack on the family farm. he relys on his parents to get in and have a shower which is a rare occaision as he seems to prefers to be as grubby as possible. He smells all the time and doesnt clean his clothes or body or his living space.

he screws people around for money, he lies, he steals (from parents and strangers) hes been in and out of jail for theft under 5000$ a numbers of times and always seems to slip through the cracks with paltry fines or a slap on the wrist

he is aggressive towards his parents and I think they are afraid of him to the point they dont even know what to do. they know he has problems with drugs but its like the big purple elephant in the room nobody talks about. they are not the kind of people that would go to counselling or meetings, which frustrates the hell out of us because we know or think it would give them strength to do soemthign about all this

i honestly fear for his mothers safety as she swims with me and i see she has bruises on her arms , legs and back all the time , when i ask her if he pushes her around she doesnt say so but says stuff like .. he used too .. which screams out to me that its still going on

i really dont know what to do , his bad behavior is tearing the family to bits and everyone is edgy all the time when his parents both retired should be enjoying their lives they have this idiot making their life hell from the moment they wake up to the time they go to sleep and then some. he has said he wont clean himself, he wont clean up and he wont change and tuff luck to them (exact words)

any thoughts?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Jodi,

Where you are, could your b-i-l's parents get a restraining order out on him? If you or your husband could remonstrate with her husband or any witness to the abuse from the son, they could perhaps convince her to get an r.o. It would be preferable for her to press charges[I don't know what the stipulations are for domestic abuse up there, but he's squatting on their property, so it should qualify], but something limiting his access to them and their property would send a strong signal. Also, in the case that he has violent friends as well as being aggressive himself, is there anywhere the parents can go in an imminent crisis where they could be safe? It seems to me that the safety of the parents is your primary concern here; your b-i-l is nowhere near rock bottom and could do a lot more damage than slapping his mother around, as horrible as that is. The parents aren't dealing with this proactively and in a way that shows concern for self-preservation. No one can treat you this way unless you allow it, and it must be well-nigh impossible for the parents to consider that their child may be beyond salvaging, which would cause them to act in their interests. I am very sorry that you are going through this, and I hope that someone can get through to either his mom or dad that law enforcement must be called on, before law enforcement is forced to by the commission of a crime. I apologize that I can't be of more use to you, Jodi. Maybe someone else can help more. I wish for the best for you and your family in this daunting situation.

Hi Tam

I have to look into the restraining order on monday. there is a counsellor up here that deals with senior abuse i am going to call them too as well. Im not sure we can shove through a restraining order unless the parents agree to it. They are always ALWAYS welcome at our house we have 2 extra bedrooms so having them here in a crisis would not be a problem at all.

i worry about his friends and worse his enemies, we hear all the time about people that he ripped off that are looking for him

we know he isnt rock bottom he acts like a 2 year old to 15 year old at best, i keep telling asking his mom .. is this how you want to live out your life , dealing with this ?

ive told my MIL so many times she cant put up with this crap and she sighs and looks sad, i dont think she even comprehends the danger she could be in , i seriously worry one day hes gonna come home all cracked out one day an shove her down the stairs or something

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

the other thing that makes me think he is abusing his mom is when i ask her how did she get the bruises she says .. i dont know , i dont remember.. to me thats just a coverup .. who doesnt know when they whack their arm, leg or back hard enough to get a bruise and not remember it .. shes not forgetfull by any means or stretch when it comes to anything else!.. i think shes covering up that hes pushing and grabbing her

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I dont think you would have any problem getting a tro tempory restraining
order if your mom came in with you. crack heads suck, to bad this is so
wide spread. too bad we are so busy saving the rest of the world that we dont have the resorces to help sick addicted people. dont play with the ass,
I dont know about cops where you live but where I live there are a few that
know the runnings with chem brains and somtimes can and will help, if he is beating old folks go talk your local cops mabey they can give him time out at the country club.

I am so sorry to hear about this terrible situation for you Jodi.

Maybe if you and your husband can give your in-laws enough support and also convince them that they are enabling him to ruin his life when they,instead, should be unselfishly doing the hard job of actually helping him, they will take some corrective action. Remember people do things for a reason. Your MIL is choosing to be a victim to fulfill a some need in herself or the situation could not exist. If she realizes she is only harming her own son to fill this need, she may realize she needs to stop in order to help him. If you support her through this and help guide her she might do what needs to be done.

Your biggest obstacle, IMO, is getting them/her on board.

Good luck!!

If your MIL has regular doctor appointments, you could give them a heads up about your concerns. Don't know what the law is in Canada, but in the US, healthcare providers are required to ask about and if needed report suspected domestic abuse (any type of abuse, not just physical, although it the one most people associate with abuse).

Maybe she'll be more comfortable admitting and discussing the situation with someone not in the family circle that she trusts and could be more receptive to assistance. It is possible that fear for her and her husband's safety is of concern to her in that if she takes any steps to get him out, he may return and harm them in the future out of revenge, so keeping quiet may feel as the lesser of 2 evils. If this is the case, she'll need to be truthfully reassured of her safety both in the present and future.,

yea i was thinking about going and talking to her doctor too .. my hubby and her both have the same doc so it would be easy to get an appointment

i think deep down she is in fear .. and also like Pakd says . filling some need to be needed despite complaining about all that is going on

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

holy cow jgunn

i have no idea what to say to you

but i do agree with the person who said that
if a person is being abused
and they are cognizant
they are also an accomplice to their own self abuse

that may sound harsh
and i don't mean to add blame to the mix

but it is true

now there are two parties responsible

your brother in law

and also his parents

your brother in law is the red paint of violence and abuse

his parents are the canvas

allowing themselves to be used as an expression of his behaviour

regardless of why he is doing this ( he could be in therapy for the rest of his life figuring out WHY WHY WHY)

the fact of the matter

is that , if his mom is being hit

she is in

DANGER

pure and simple

empathy kind of goes out the window

when seen in this light

remove the source of danger from the property

then let him have the responsibility of figuring out WHY WHY WHY

and HOW HOW HOW

he is going to CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE

putting bad paint on canvas

will not solve anything

it may cause the entire painting however

to go up in awful flames

well put LaV thanks hun

i have an appointment later in the week with her doctor to set things in motion, fortunately there is a cop in the family so we are going to be talking to her this week (she hasnt returned my call yet so im just waiting) I think she will be a huge help

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

That is all good news. The more support around you and them the better.

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> any thoughts?
Jesus said "...Let the Dead bury the Dead"..Matt. 8-22.
Or as one translator said..."That business must look after itself;
you have more important work to do." ....WY

Just saw this post Jgunn. So sorry you're going through this!

My sister is a drug addict. She started doing hard drugs at 17. She's now 59, incontinent, and can barely walk. She's facing jail time toward the end of this month for drug-related issues.

My husband's brother was also a drug addict (he died homeless a couple of years ago in his early 50s).

It sounds like your in-laws might be classic enablers. Nar-anon is group support for families of drug addicts, and focuses on learning how not to be an enabler. If your in-laws won't go, it might still be good for you and your husband to go (for your own sakes). You could discuss the meetings with your in-laws, and eventually, they might decide to go too.

[nar-anon.org]

Parents often blame themselves for their "child's" addiction. They might feel they owe their child something extra, because they must have somehow failed their child in the past. And of course, as parents, they might feel it's their responsibility to "help" their child, no matter what the "child's" age. This makes parents easily susceptible as enablers.

In addition, it's difficult for parents to understand or accept the severity of the problem, and the possibly bleak prognosis for the future. Unfortunately, some addicts hit "bottom" over and over and over again. They might pull up briefly - or even for years at a time, only to continue on their downward path again and again.

This can be torture for parents to experience. It's hard enough when a child dies before the parent dies, but drug addiction can become a slow suicide taking place over years and years, and usually includes intermittent crises along the way.

Your in-laws are so fortunate to have you for their daughter-in-law. I was really impressed by your obvious love and sympathy for them. They will need it! Your unconditional love and patience with them will be much appreciated I'm sure!

After a Nar-anon meeting, everyone might feel more comfortable having some open family discussions with your brother-in-law about his drug abuse. This would be a good time to discuss rehab, if that's an option. Or your in-laws could offer to attend family counseling sessions with him. Or in fact, they could tell him he has to attend family counseling sessions and drug/alcolhol classes as a condition for allowing him to temporarily stay on their property. They can also set a time limit for him to get a job and start paying rent or move out. If he's not willing to agree to all the conditions, then he can be told he has to move out right away. Your in-laws might or might not decide to allow him to temporarily return if he later agrees to the conditions.

It would also be good for your brother-in-law to attend Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous. But I would not consider that to be sufficient to allow him to stay. My sister attends AA everyday, and she often does drugs the same day and doesn't mention it at the meetings.

The best scenario would be for your brother-in-law to attend rehab and the counseling sessions/classes and give up the drugs. Then he might be able to get a job and move out on his own. If not, and if he's given an ultimatum, he might decide he'd rather leave your in-laws' home than deal with their interference and concern; and that might be best for him and your in-laws.

Any of these options would probably be best discussed at a Nar-anon meeting before being presented to your brother-in-law as an ultimative.

I sincerely wish the best for you and your family in dealing with this very difficult situation. Like everything, it can be a learning experience for all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2009 09:59PM by suncloud.

Just thought I'd add my suggestion that you and your husband attend at least one nar-anon meeting yourselves. Then, whatever happens, you'll be better able to handle it.

If your in-laws are completely resistant to attending Nar-anon meetings, it might be appropriate for you, your husband, your mother-in-law and father-in-law and as many other family members as possible to all meet together and openly discuss everyone's concerns and all available options.

The more communication, the better. Once your brother-in-law is aware that everyone in the family is discussing his problems, he might not want to stay around anyway. Or he might want to do something positive about it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2009 10:27PM by suncloud.

Thanks much all very good suggestions

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

hey jgunn

hang in there
i think that suncloud has some great suggestions

i couldn't help thinking though
just how much TIME and WORK and ENERGY the family would be expending if they were to go that route...
going to all these meetings, setting up counseling sessions, having family discussions etc. etc. etc. kind of unfair...it almost sounds like a full time and a half CAREER!

therefore,

i also say that your brother in law needs to do the BULK and CORE of the work
otherwise all the peripheral support that he gets will probably be

an infuriating chasing after the wind

la_veronique,

Yes, I agree. All those meetings etc., are really something that people should do only if they want to. And an addict will not recover unless the addict works harder than anyone else to make that happen.

When I mentioned that my sister and brother-in-law are/were addicts, I forgot to mention that my son's father is an addict too (we're divorced).

With all that addiction in my family, I feel so lucky that my son is not an addict. But if he were, I would go through hell and high water to help pull him out of it, and pray that he would want to help himself!

I'd love to be able to attend family counseling sessions with my sister (family counseling might be helpful for both of us), but she lives too far away. I confess, I don't currently attend Nar-anon meetings; but I probably should. Years ago, when I visited my parents, I attended meetings with my mother.

Sometimes, just dealing with the constant lies, thefts, crises, arrests, and possible/probable violence (in Jgunn's case), is a lot worse than going to meetings. For my mother, Nar-anon meetings were a temporary haven, and helped her to learn and cope with my sister's addiction.

After my father died, my mother became ill with Alzheimers, and my sister obtained power-of-attorney over our mother's health. I lived far away from them and wasn't aware of everything that was happening. My sister put our mother in a nursing home and used the power-of-attorney to obtain drugs for herself and her friends. She sold all of our mother's things - including all of her clothes(!) for money for drugs. She sold the furniture out of our mother's house or gave it to "friends". She routinely raided our mother's safe deposit box, and collected money from her trust account "to help take care of her". During the few times that my sister visited our mother in the nursing home, she would steal the toilet paper out of the bathroom.

She lived in our mother's house and never cleaned it because she'd even sold the vacuum cleaner, and she had no money for cleaning products.

They lived thousands of miles away, and it tooks years to resolve those issues (Eventually, my mother moved here with me). Our mother has since passed, and it's amazing that my sister and I are still on good terms.

I admire Jgunn for making priority #1: protecting the parents from the brother-in-law's violence.

I'm hoping that something can happen to protect the parents and keep them safe. But if the parents refuse to press charges, and if they also refuse to throw the brother-in-law out, I'm not sure if a restraining order will be possible (Maybe it depends on where a person lives).

If that's the case, then a Nar-anon meeting might be a good first step towards protecting the entire family from future abuse.

The way I see it, Nar-anon meetings can be helpful in four ways:

1) Talking to others who know what you're going through.

2) Helping to provide strategies for dealing with addictive behavior, including violence and law enforcement strategies (that sometimes even police aren't aware of).

3) Helping to provide strategies for coping emotionally with a loved-one's addiction.

4) Providing an educational source for learning about enabling, and why it's so important not to do it.

It's not really about chasing after the wind. People can benefit by going to the meetings, even if their relatives never recover from addiction.

From Nar-anon: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can."

Jgunn, you might find something at a Nar-anon meeting to be helpful to you. And if the parents are influenced to go because of your example, then it might do them a world of good.

But it's up to you of course. This is a very personal choice to make.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2009 10:19PM by suncloud.

The meetings are for the enablers, the ones that can't stay out of the trap of needing to be abused. If the addict recovered today, the enablers still need to deal with their issues or live with consequences from it. In that kind of relationship, everyone is sick, everyone needs help.

I have a lot of addiction in my family, as well. I am sorry to hear about the hard time you had with your mother's illness, Suncloud. Maybe it is helpful that you were able to take care of her in the end. I was able to get my invalid father from my abusive/addicted mother eight months before he died. Miraculously my relationship with my mother is better than ever now.

thanks you friends, for sharing your stories too , i totally get where you are coming from. Ive been dealing with addiction (alchohol) my whole life with my own parents , but drugs seem like a whole nother ball game in some respects i dont know how to explain it.

You are right my concern is with my MIL's safety over anything but even so she has to take some steps to stop the abuse to herself. I went to a Nar-annon meeting this weekend , more for particpation . .. i diddnt really say much , but it does help to have and know people in the same boat, I plan to attend more meetings and my hubby is on board when he gets a day off coinciding with a meetup.

im really dissapointed not to have heard from the family member cop , i think someone either didnt pass on the message or the family habit of head in the sand is carrying over too her too ... i am gonna send another message to her and hope she gets it.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

jgunn

maybe you didn't hear from the family member cop
because :

1) she is FAMILY
thus it may be doubly hard for her to take action

Like for instance, if the drug addicted guy is her brother, how easy would it be for her to arrest him? Physically hitting someone is a crime, in my book. People do get arrested for that kind of behaviour.

2) Other than arresting him, what else CAN she do that the guy cannot do for himself?

3) She may already feel traumatized by it and being a cop may put her in an awkward position.

4) Maybe she feels too much anger to know what to do. If I had a family member that acted in that way, I would feel angry too and would probably need some time to pace around and think of how to respond.


5) Perhaps you should involve a cop who is not a family member. I heard that there is some protocol amongst surgeons that do not allow them to do surgery on family members. Maybe there is some unspoken thing with cops that make it difficult for them to get involved in criminal cases involving family members.

Taking drugs may not be a crime but stealing from and physically hurting others is.

that all might be true LaV , i am not gonna bug her any further if i havent heard from here by end of the weekend

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Pakd4fun, glad you were able to rescue your father for those eight months before he passed on, and also glad that you're getting along so well with your mother. I'm sure she loves and appreciates you so much! Drugs and alcohol are really no fun, but especially for the addicted one. They need us, even when they might act like they don't. I guess it's part of life (sigh), and if we can find a way to deal with it, we're all better off down the road. Thanks so much for your kind words.

Jodi, sorry to hear about your parents' problems with alcohol. It must have been hard sometimes, growing up with that. Something is wrong with our society that so many people have substance abuse problems.

I hope the family cop has just been temporarily busy, and she'll be getting back to you soon. Was the doctor able to help?

I'm glad you went to a meeting, and I hope the meetings will be worthwhile. I decided to take my own advice and go to a Nar-anon meeting this Friday. I think maybe I've been "projecting" on you what I need to do for myself. You've been a good example for me! The timing of this thread is just so relevant, since my sister is currently in crisis. My feelings are all over the place. I'm very worried about her, but there doesn't seem to be anything I can do for now, except to let her know that I'm here and she can call and talk to me.

I've never been to a Nar-anon meeting by myself. This should be interesting. I just hope it won't be too religion-oriented, in a way that's difficult for me to go along with. Not that I'm intolerant. I'm not. But I'm definitely not a conformist either. Well, I'll see how it goes.

Also, I just wanted to say that sometimes I'm really so pleasantly surprised that people here put up with my ranting. I appreciate it! Thanks Jgunn, Pakd4fun, and LaV!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2009 07:17AM by suncloud.

hugs and prayers

to both jgunn and suncloud

Im glad i went to the meeting too ... the little bit i spoke about well the people there told me you know you cant control this situation.. i guess for me this is a real thorn in the paw so to speak ..not that I WANT to fix everything of course we all want to fix things that are wrong , honestly i just wish it wasnt happening.

Eddie struck again this weekend by stealing his fathers chainsaw while he was away visiting family out of town. Poor father comes home and more things missing, he was very hurt .. he said to us sadly ... eddie is cruel .. inwards i cheered inside .. father in law really needs to come to grips that golden boy first born has got problems

i think he is getting tired of this happening , my hubby also told him that i suspect his son is pushing his mom around, he didnt say much but just digested the information

sun ;the meeting here was good in regards to the religious aspect they gave everyone an opportunity to meditate or talk to their higher power ... it wasnt dogmatic at all for that i appreciate the group. i have another meeting on saturday and my hubby has the night off so he can come with me too

weve decided we are gonna get the mom an dad together and have dinner with them and spill our guts on how we feel about the whole situation and how its tearing everyone apart and how eddie is playing us all against each other. we need to get united.

my hope is we all come away united .. crossing my fingers , toes, ears

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Thanks, LaV! Hugs and prayers for you too!

Gosh, good luck with all that Jodi! You are very brave. My hero!

How nice that your hubby is so supportive. I can totally understand how you inwardly cheered over your father-in-law's beginning to come to grips with the situation. The sooner he does, the less pain and disappointment in the long run. Hopefully he'll come to see that it's nothing personal. It's all about the drugs.

Yes, I think unity is the ticket! I hope things turn out well for your dinner. This is probably really hard for the parents-in-law, so it might take a little time for them to be totally up to speed. But it seems like things are moving in the right direction. We'll all be wishing you the very best.

Hey, thanks for letting me know about how your meeting was. It makes me feel better about going.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2009 09:07AM by suncloud.

It sounds like things are moving along for everyone. They are hard roads to travel, but it sounds like all are on the right path.

Good luck Jodi and Suncloud. I am be sending good thoughts and love to you and your families.

When it comes to abuse from a person who is close to you such as spouce, boyfriend, or family member getting a restraining order can cause more damage than good. One has to weigh the risk so to speak, many people who get a restraining order end up with more attacks and perhaps death because they rely on that little piece of paper and think they are protected. The person who gets a restraining order needs to understand that their fight has only begun and be prepared. Unfortunately we have laws, I am saying Unfortunately because those same laws protect the ones who are causing such harm.
The first instinct is to protect the parents and sack the dude and tape him up and cary him to a place where he can get the help he needs. I am not saying to cause harm to the guy because he is under the influence of some mind altering drug and really is drivin by what he percievs as a need for his body.
You know the guy is dangerous if he has crossed the line to cause bodily harm like that. He is in desparate situations and desparate people do desparate things. He needs to be unable to have access to the parents.
So sorry about this Jody, These are hard decisions and I understand your problem. Remember a protection order is only a piece of paper, I found out the hard way on that one and have scars to prove that.

hehe no he sells the stuff to other people or the pawn shop 18 months ago we recovered 2 outboard motorrs he stole from dad from the pawn shop , personally i wuold have pressed charges but no .. dad just bought the stuff back and let it go (ENABLER)

.. basically pops needs to learn to lock things up , down and away .. even tho thtas not the solution he cant keep having tools and equipment stolen like this. Last summer a whole tractor went missing never to be recovered, it was last spotted in front of a house that suprise suprise was rented by a friend of eddie's .. gosh what a suprise .. anyways the cops got there too late the tractor was gone and nothing could be done aobut it of course.

i fear if both parents go away for a weekend the whole farm will be cleaned out .. it wouldnt suprise me :/

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

stealing a tractor and chainsaw???? The guy has to be hung.

In a way, it is sort of comical

i mean,
in a pretty sad and tragic way

but still
made me laugh

i mean, WOW

a TRACTOR?