I think every SADer is commiting suicide by the way they eat. It's the respectable way to commit suicide. You know when I do feel suicidal, I do think of SAD as being an option but, it's just so slow and painful.

I read a book about suicide, or rather in this case, voluntary sacrifice. It was about the Lindow Man
[www.amazon.com]
[en.wikipedia.org]
who voluntarily gave his life in a Druid ritual. The goal might have been to stop the advancing Roman army and it's interesting that the Roman never advanced beyond the site of his sacrifice. There were similar bodies found in Denmark and the Romans did not advance beyond the sites of those bodies either. So the sacrifices might have achieved their goals.

They could tell that these people voluntarily gave their lives because they found a small amount of burned bread in their stomachs, which was consistant with how the Druids chose who died. They made a pancake, broke it into pieces, put the peices in a hat and drew lots to see who died. The one who drew the burned piece died.There were many other signs of voluntary sacrifice too, like the ritual way the victim was bound and killed, and no signs of struggle.

I'm not the type that cries at books or movies that much, but this book made me cry, even though it was rather dry and full of acheological hypothesis. Ever since then I've thought that if I ever felt like commiting suicide, I would do it by using slaughterhouse equipment in a slaughterhouse, this would humanize the slaughtering of animals. That seems to be what Christ did when he died on the cross, and I believe it did eventually stop the animal sacrifices in the Temple. But I have way too much to live for to do that, I've also read that psychics think that people who commit suicide have to repeat their life again until they get it right, and that they also have to feel the pain they caused. So suicide causes more problems than it solves.

Really guys? I didn't like it as a kid and my kids won't touch the stuff, homemade or otherwise. Maybe if I were to drown it in ketchup for them... Kids do so love ketchup. Gross.

I don't like the phrase 'giving in to despair'.

It's ok to despair sometimes. I think we should give our selves permission to be sad, to despair, to feel desperate - there is nothing weak about it, it's just where you are at a given time.

I was brought up with various mantra's like ' I never had time to be stressed' or 'depression is just a modern phrase for not pulling your socks up'.

It took me years of undiagnosed depression and total despair where I felt like a failure before I began to learn to look at this in another way.

It's ok to be in that dark place - you almost have to embrace it like an old friend, not fight it but accept and be oh so kind and gentle with yourself.

I have never considered any kind of suicide weak. I think it is incredibly strong; sad maybe, maybe not. I lost a friend who lived a tormented life - he did kill himself in the end and although I was sorry to lose him I couldn't be sorry for him. He found the peace that had evaded him all his life.

I don't think anyone should judge if someone is right or wrong to kill themselves.

And in answer to the question - yes, of course it is a viable option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2010 03:56PM by flipperjan.

to be honest, I have multiple attempts under under my belt from earlier in my life, many that should have been successful, but docs said it was a miracle I survived even with their care, and I can say from experience, it is "giving in to despair" and killing oneself, is weakness... at the very least, in MOST cases, its a permanent solution to a temporary problem, your mostly right about the learning to accept your negative emotions, thats what helped me the most, when I learned to accept that it was ok for me to feel the way I did, but wrong to allow those feelings to control me.

My next opinion will most likely be very unpopular, but the main reason I feel suicide is wrong in most situations, is because, as a society we are not only ourselves, we are part of a whole, and just like when in the human body, cells start to die early, it hurts the whole, just like when some cells decide to attack others, it hurts the whole, and those cells have to be stopped or the whole body will waste away and die... with suicide a person is willingly choosing to not only hurt themselves, but to hurt all those who care for them and rely on them, or may care for them or rely on them in the future, and in a way, their death effects the entire world...

obviously there are situations where its warranted, some one is on their death bed already, no cure in site, nothing works for them and they have nothing to look forward to but intense uncontrollable pain...then sure, they are on their way out anyway, the compassionate thing to do would be to allow them to do it, and even help if they need it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Beautifully put, Curator.

I want to say to everyone,and anyone who is feeling low,that I myself,in just a short time since posting this,that I cant believe I did post it,and to be an example of how you can get to a better place.
What did I do?
I gave up.
Not literally,but to whatever I call my spirit.
And I was told very loudly to eat nothing but fresh raw living foods,and to turn off the TV,and to journal,and to go in my shop and build something with my hands,and to take long tub soaks,and to sit on my patio and contemplate,and to take long walks,lift my weights,and to get in bed at night and be thankful for at least one thing that day.
Pretty much the OPPOSITE of what I wanted to do when I lost yet another woman.
I guess healing lies in doing what you know is right,and not to just numb out.

One element that I know will help alot is to help others.Maybe volunteer somewhere.I need to work on this isolation issue.

I have a long way to go,but thought I would encourage someone out there if I can.
There is a workable way out of the pain.
Actual tools to use.
And the ones above are mine.

Vinny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2010 12:28AM by eaglefly.

Vinny, that's great to hear. I'm really glad that you are finding solace no matter how small. And you are right if you can experience a small change in thinking or emotions, you can experience bigger changes with work and time.

Your post made me feel better and I'm not even down! I hope you continue to feel better as you explore what enriches your spirit. Until then, I will continue to send you wishes of warmth and happiness.

hey vinny

that was very courageous of u to go through the pain
and act in faith even if you did not feel it
instead of just numbing out
very powerful
u should be proud of yourself

Really appreciate it.
I was just so tired of running and numbing out.

Vinny

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no!

the car is running in my garage right now.


folks are banging on the door

when will it @#$%& end???

raw foods couldnt save this totally unwanted @#$%& of a man

no i didnt type!@#$%^&*
I typed s---h---i-----t

you want to know reality???????????????
I have done this:

Drive 90 min in traffic just to rub the forehead of a woman after her long day at work. HOW MANY WOMEN WOULD LOVE THAT??? IT DIDNT MEAN S-H-I-T TO HER
Hold her as she detoxes from smoking.
Show up for every single birthday and event she has in her life and her kids life.
eat her out like no man ever has.
wash her car just because.
give her money,just because.

I GUESS YOU GET THE IDEA.

WIMP?

MAYBE

doesnt sound like a wimp to me , sounds like you just havent met a woman who appreciates you!

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

DO they exist???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

yes absolutely !
relationships are give an take , sounds likeyou have givven alot , did you ask for or take anything for yourself?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

hmmmmm
i will have to ponder that.
never felt like i could really "bother " anyone with my life and issues.

Darn good question jodi.
thanks for your input

so?
what do i do?
lay all of my stuff on someone?
THEY SURE HAVE.
I SIT AND LISTEN FOR HOURS ON ALL THEIR PAST STUFF,EMOTIONS,PHYSICAL PROBLEMS,ETC...

Can I fathom doing the same?
And ACTUALLY be loved???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 09:24PM by Prana.

sorry for the lack of paragrahs here but its a good read none the less


This is a very good article. Those who are still single may learn something from here... Those who are already married may take it as a guideline to improve your marriage & relationship ... DID I MARRY THE RIGHT PERSON? During one of our seminars, a woman asked a common question. She said, 'How do I know if I married the right person?' I noticed that there was a large man sitting next to her so I said, 'It depends. Is that your husband?' In all seriousness, she answered 'How do you know?' Let me answer this question because the chances are good that it's weighing on your mind. Here's the answer. EVERY relationship has a cycle. In the beginning, you fell in love with your spouse/partner. You anticipated their call, wanted their touch, and liked their idiosyncrasies (unconventional behavior/habit). Falling in love with your spouse wasn't hard. In fact, it was a completely natural and spontaneous experience. You didn't have to DO anything. That's why it's called 'falling' in love... Because it's happening TO YOU. People in love sometimes say, 'I was swept off my feet.' Think about the imagery of that __expression. It implies that you were just standing there; doing nothing, and then something came along and happened TO YOU. Falling in love is easy. It's a passive and spontaneous experience. But after a few years of marriage, the euphoria (excitement) of love fades. It's the natural cycle of EVERY relationship. Slowly but surely, phone calls become a bother (if they come at all), touch is not always welcome (when it happens), and your spouse's idiosyncrasies, instead of being cute, drive you nuts. The symptoms of this stage vary with every relationship, but if you think about your marriage, you will notice a dramatic difference between the initial stage when you were in love and a much duller or even angry subsequent stage. At this point, you and/or your spouse might start asking, 'Did I marry the right person?' And as you and your spouse reflect on the euphoria of the love you once had, you may begin to desire that experience with someone else. This is when marriages breakdown. People blame their spouse for their unhappiness and look outside their marriage for fulfillment. Extramarital fulfillment comes in all shapes and sizes. Infidelity is the most obvious. But sometimes people turn to work, a hobby, a friendship, excessive TV, or abusive substances. But the answer to this dilemma does NOT lie outside your marriage. It lies within it. I'm not saying that you couldn't fall in love with someone else. You could. And TEMPORARILY you'd feel better. But you'd be in the same situation a few years later. Because (listen carefully to this): THE KEY TO SUCCEEDING IN MARRIAGE IS NOT FINDING THE RIGHT PERSON; IT'S LEARNING TO LOVE THE PERSON YOU FOUND. SUSTAINING love is not a passive or spontaneous experience. It'll NEVERjust happen to you. You can't 'find' LASTING love. You have to 'make' it day in and day out. That's why we have the __expression 'the labor of love.' Because it takes time, effort, and energy. And most importantly, it takes WISDOM. You have to know WHAT TO DO to make your marriage work. Make no mistake about it. Love is NOT a mystery. There are specific things you can do (with or without your spouse) to succeed with your marriage. Just as there are physical laws of the universe (such as gravity), there are also laws for relationships. Just as the right diet and exercise program makes you physically stronger, certain habits in your relationship WILL make your marriage stronger. It's a direct cause and effect. If you know and apply the laws, the results are predictable... you can 'make' love. Love in marriage is indeed a 'decision'... Not just a feeling. Remember always this: 'God determines who walks into your life.It is up to you to decide who you let to walk away,who you let to stay, and who you refuse to let go.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Vinny to answer your question

if you put your whole self out there tending to someone elses needs your bucket sits empty

im not saying dump on someone else

but dont give everything you got without asking for something back as well

if someone doesnt get it or wont recriprocate, move on

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

vinny if you want to talk
im on the live chat on this site
[www.living-foods.com]

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Much wisdom there, Jodi, in the description of relationships and in the advice to expect some reciprocity. You are a lovely person.

Jodi said it so much better than I can, but here's my input...
Yes, eaglefly, you can actually be loved when you start believing you deserve it - and of course you do. When you know you deserve to be loved, it'll be natural for you to expect to be treated accordingly. People will still see your giving nature, but they will also sense that they can't just use you. People will be attracted to your strength and confidence. Your best relationship is yet to come.


My favorite raw vegan

What the heck happened to this window? I'm wayyyyyy over thar . . .

Vinny,

It's past time to sit and think a spell about what it is exactly about disrespectful ungrateful women that appeals to you. And I am dead serious here. You seem like a Class A fella to me, and I have never understood why men like that[and women like that, for that matter] don't comprehend that if you give "good" out, you should get "good" back--NO EXCEPTIONS.

I am still such a young lass, and know so little of the world, could someone please explain it to me, pwitty pweese?[bats eyelashes abashedly]

It's the unbroken string of question marks all in a row.
I'll ask the mod to fix it.
Then I'll come back and try to read this thread and respond appropriately,
I can't see it very well as is.

Jodi,
Very good article,and I totally agree.

What is it that I keep meeting woman after woman who stays there,and at the first mistake I make,they become indifferent,and will not do something as simple as sit down and say "YOU KNOW VINNY,I KNOW WE ARE ALL HUMAN AND WE MAKE MISTAKES,I WOULD LIKE TO TALK THIS THROUGH".

One relationship I was in she totally turned on my for sending her an email that was meant for my mother. Nothing horrible at all,just got sent to her by mistake.Then 4 months of laughing,playing with her kids,rubbing her forehead after a long day,making meals together,etc...all stopped.

My last relationship,she texted me one day and said she couldnt talk that night. July 28 I think it was. Then I decided to go listen to music for the rest of the evening.Then the next day she said she called,and couldnt get a hold of me,and accused me of never being there for her.What??? after 3 months of supporting her in every area I could think of??
Now she is history.

Is all this sounding like high school level stuff???

Anyway,this is the insanity I am finding out there.
No true act of love I have shown has been enough to keep someone around.
Now I try to turn to Jesus,the Bible,my hobbies,etc....
It lasts about 2 weeks,and then I am teetering on that hell again of wondering what its all about.And a long(or short for that matter) future ahead,alone once again.

I will go off to heaven scratching my head and wondering what the heck was that 46 yrs for on that ball floating out in space.

Where to find that peace I had just 2 weeks ago.

Good Lord have mercy on me.

Vinny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2010 08:39PM by eaglefly.

Vinny,

Did ya read my post a couple ones above?! It isn't enough to ask this question rhetorically--if you don't try answering it, this will keep happening to you.

OK, here's my assessment from observations of this sort of dynamic: super nice guy attracts chick with "dad" issues, who cannot appreciate a man who shows her unconditional respect and affection, so she ends up becoming his meeeeeeean mistreatah[you gotta say it like John Lee Hooker], until he dumps her. Which is perversely what she has come to expect from men. So after enough abuse of this kind from said chicks, nice guy becomes a calloused bitter jerk who keeps himself emotionally aloof from all women, even the ones that seem decent hearted, and gradually sinks into a permanent despairing detachment from his genuine romantic/sexual self. And humanists everywhere shake their heads and mutter, "ain't that a shame . . " Lather Rinse Repeat. Only you know when to stop shampooing already and get out of the bath of insanity. Learn to recognize the poisonous type when you see her; hint: she's gonna come on strong and ask for too much too soon, and run like hell the other way. Make that move, Vinny. Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2010 10:00PM by Tamukha.

THANK YOU!!

I DO know those early "come on too soon" red flags.

Like when I had gotten cards from all of them and after just two weeks that say "You are everything to me and we will have a lifetime together".Two weeks!
Am I THAT great???
I dont think so.Maybe getting a card like that after a year or so,but TWO weeks.
And something always told me it was nothing at all to be investing in.

But here is the clincher....(early on) these women seem so down to earth,sweet,and LOVING towards me. Thats what I am looking for!! Thats what I want to attract and seems appealing.



Vinny

ps. I will go to my grave and never become a bitter jerk.Its just not in me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2010 12:02AM by eaglefly.

Vinny,

I knew you knew this! So, your gut is raising the alarm, but . . . because you appear to be getting down-to-earth, sweet, and loving, you are assuming it's sincere and binding and throw yourself into it. Go with the gut next time, and ignore the pull of the happy traits that are so obvious but clearly don't promise anything. I'm gonna leave with this morsel: a woman that is truly down-to-earth, that is, who is secure in herself and her place in the world, and ready to receive and reciprocate a man's good stuff, is not going to be aggressive, needy, or overeffusive. She is going to be nice and friendly, but cautious and respectable. She is going to take her time to show you her character and personality, and to get to know yours; a woman that declares undying affection for a man she barely knows--whoo, boy, big, colossal red flag!

What I'm saying is, trust yourself, Vinny. Focus on those warning signs, and heed them. Love at first sight is a grand thing, but rare. Slow and steady leading to real understanding, mutual respect, and abiding devotion, that's the pinnacle of love we all should strive for

Thank you

infatuation is often mistakenly called love...according to eric fromm in his book ..the art of loving.

he also wrote another excellent book that touches on some very interesting pathologies and the title is ..escape from freedom.

predicating your own happiness on the way others treat you is a no win game.

almost all of here on the bullitan board are focusing on keeping our bodies in the best of health...yes that is totally necessary....but we also have to nourish and heal our emotional and mental cnters as well.

until we purify all three apects of our existence we are "missing the mark" ...our aim is faulty. it only after balancing all three aspects of our existence that we can begin to enjoy the fruits of labors.

healthy fruit cannot be harvested from a partially healthy tree.

it takes alotta work on ourselves..alotta of unrelenting work... to get the tree completely healthy again.

the process is an internal one. and depending our happiness on external events is only temporary at best and extremely frustrating and painful at worst.

we are all here on this planet for a reason. and each of us has our unique assortment of problems and difficulties.... and these are what can teach us what we need to know about ourselves.....if we would only use them correctly and for that purpose.

it is my opinion that suicide deprives one of the opportunity to change their way of thinking and feeling and thus being transformed onto a whole other leval.... much as an weird looking caterpillar gets transformed into a beautiful butterfly. only our transformation is not automatic...it depends on what we do and how we do it.

transformation is the theme of our true existence here on this planet.

i wish you well.

juicin' john