In all the years that I have been vegan I have never thought about pearls. I can't believe that because I love pearls and have quite a few.

I have some seed pearls which i believe are natural pearls rather than cultured pearls.
Are modern pearls built around a bit of something without an oyster being involved?

I'm sure that most pearls are manmmade now i.e not harvested from an oyster. the genuine item must be very expensive and is obviously not vegan

I'm pretty sure man made pearls (as in cultivated, not the plastic kind) still involve oysters and are not vegan. I have some too, gifts, I don't know what to do with them.

Even faux pearls are often treated with resins made from fish scales or mollusk shells to give them their sheen. Cultured pearls are still made of oyster, just farmed.

I think you all are being far too hard on yourselves. You have to ask if your actions have increased the harm to animals beyond what is already being done. Pearls or not, people are still going to eat all those oysters. Go for the pearls, say a prayer of thanks to the oyster and give more to the conservation of nature and I'd say you've done very well.

If one took a prohibition on harming animals to its logical limit it would make life impossibly difficult. Everything in modern living involves the death of many animals. Your house destroyed all the animals it is on, as has every building. Plus the logging destroyed many more. The roadways that you drive on destroyed all the animals there. The mines destroyed all the animals there. The farms destroyed many animals, even conscientious organic ones. Wearing shoes harms many more small animals than going barefoot. In India there is a sect that sweeps the ground before they step to avoid the bugs, but even barefoot they are still killing by the act of walking and sweeping. etc etc etc ............. The overly conscientious person would conclude the only thing to do is to kill themselves. But they would be very wrong because they are the only hope for a better world. It is therefore their responsibility to take good care of themselves and their children and not to worry unduly about everything.

I think it's reasonable to consider non-essential items with a view to what is least harmful to nature. I need shoes and shelter, not so much pearls and other decorations. I don't know If I will keep the pearls I've got, they are absolutely gorgeous to me as a miracle of nature but it's in the same way that fur is so stunning. I'm not exactly comfortable wearing it. And I certainly wouldn't want someone else to see and covet my pearls etc with an eye to going out and buying some of their own new. That supports an industry I don't wish to give my energy to at all. It doesn't drive me crazy to think along these lines, at this point it comes naturally to me as I think it's naturally occured to Flipperjan.
And yes I do think that my participation increases the harm already being done if I help to keep it alive. That's my personal opinion and my own choice for myself when it comes to these things. It doesn't mean I won't ever wear leather, silk or wool, use a product made from honey or beeswax or that I'm for sure going to get rid of my pearls. It just means that when I wear or use those things I will do so consciously.

I get it... Like the VP of PETA wearing a fake leather belt, it may not be an animal product, but it perpetuates a fashion that IS harmful to animals... I get where your coming from...

yeah, cultured pearls still involve oysters [www.karipearls.com] also, pearl oysters aren't usually eaten, not often at least, some people do, I believe sushi bars in japan serve them, pearls intact for the customers to get excited over, technically though what are normally served at the majority of places, and what are used to produce pearls are a different variety of oyster.

"any mollusk that secretes a shell is capable of producing pearls. However, the pearls you will find in restaurant oysters diverge in chemical composition from nacreous pearls. The shells of edible oysters are made of calcite and do not secrete nacre, so the "pearls" they produce are actually calcareous concretions; they are valueless because they contain no nacre and are entirely lusterless. They are also harder than nacreous pearls, so be careful not to bite down on one if you encounter it. Other mollusks that produce pearls that are actually calcareous concretions are scallops (which are closely related to Pearl Oysters), clams, and conchs, among others."

Also, I should point out, that oysters raised to make pearls specifically will never end up on a persons plate, unless the people shucking them to get the pearls out decide to eat a few, oysters once forcibly opened die and will not stay fresh long enough to make it to market fresh, I guess they could possibly be harvested and turned into smoked canned oysters...would be a smart move to increase profits by anyone that raises them...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Aren't there glass and ceramic pearls? Plastic also, but I hate to promote that. I have seen silk threaded on pastic, indended to look like pearls.I know Silk is a questionable item for most vegans, but its possible to obtain silk without killing the animal within. Its just that it takes a bit more effort, which isn't often taken in the industry. I found some information on 'peace silk' or 'vegetarian silk'. The claim is that its the best for warmth and therapeutic use. But It is rare and not readily commercially available.

In theory it should be possible to obtain pearls without harming an oyster or keeping it in captivity. Its just its probably more difficult to find that way. It seems like ivory could be obtained by non-violent means, if you allowed the animal to die naturally on its own. But most of the time ivory is obtained by violent means. There is always petrified ivory, which is very old, and most likely from animals that died on their own.

i don't like pearls
i like other jewelry better

I had a disturbing dream last night about baby elephants. I am wondering if it was because of thinking about ivory production before going to sleep. It really isn't beautiful if it causes pain and suffering.

Well, I sold the old piano. Guess I could stand to do away with the pearls while I'm at it.

I like your post, Brome. There's nothing good about suffering in order to (supposedly) end somebody else's. Then who is going to deal with your suffering? It just goes in circles. Let's just do the best that we can. Looking around for every tiny thing that might have harmed or killed an animal or another person can make a person neurotic, or, more likely, be an indicator of such a condition.

How does one "suffer" from not owning luxury items made of animal bodies/suffering/death though? I'm not exactly hurting if I give up a necklace. I feel some resistance but that's just because I "like" them, they're pretty. If that's what's motivating me I think I could stand to do with a little deprivation in that area... Just MHO.

coco, if it distresses you, certainly sell or give away anything which does so.

coco Wrote:
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> How does one "suffer" from not owning luxury items
> made of animal bodies/suffering/death though? I'm
> not exactly hurting if I give up a necklace. I
> feel some resistance but that's just because I
> "like" them, they're pretty. If that's what's
> motivating me I think I could stand to do with a
> little deprivation in that area... Just MHO.

I was not talking about you and your quite sensible actions. It was extremists I referred to. I do know how you feel about possibly giving up a pearl necklace, because long after I had gone veg and become sensitive to animals, I still refused to give up my extra-luxurious, expensive fur coat since I had such an emotional attachment to it. (Crazy, huh...) Finally, one day a fur buyer came to town and I sold the damn thing, giving half the proceeds to an animal rights group.

I read that Toller Cranston threw his fur coat in the corner for his dog to sleep on. We all wise up in our own way!

Ah, I gotcha.
I was certainly driving myself crazy trying to get rid of every single non-natural thing in the house when I first started out with raw. Doing away with all the plastic items one uses daily is completely impossible.
I was thinking about those pearls, what do I do with them exactly? Sell them and make a profit? Donate them or give them away? I had a set, necklace bracelet and earrings given to me for xmas one year, that I gave to a friend of my sister but these others... I like the idea of donating the money to a good group. Sounds like a plan.

coco,

I agree you should donate them. Also agree with your [apparent] leaning to proportionalize--I'm sure I have inherited diamonds that may have been mined using slave labor. I'm sure that in the past I have bought cocoa that was harvested using slave labor, for that matter. You can make yourself crazy . . .

Oh, the chocolate thing drives me CRAZY! Gah, if people only knew. Not so cute fluffy easter bunny and ho ho santa when you realize where that stuff really comes from. So sad.

I'm slowly paring down my collection of shell jewelry and vintage shell buttons too. Giving it away, making crafts with the buttons. A particularly spectacular necklace I made years ago went to a friend tonight, she loved it and I loved letting it go. Not making out so bad on the plastic issue either. The less stuff you have, the less plastic you've got by default . My house is looking emptier and emptier, I can almost hear an echo...

as of yesterday, my room is empty of everything but a shelf with my books on it, a reading lamp, some exorcise equipment, and the mat, pillow, and blanket that make up my bed, a couch and table are still waiting to be sold out in the garage however, with a few other things...im almost ready to move on.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator,

By exorcise equipment, do you mean a crucifix, holy water, and Bible, because those don't really take up a lot of space . . .

Curator Wrote:

>...some exorcise equipment...

Curator, do you do exorcisms? If so, I would like to open a discussion on this topic, as I have some probably unusual opinions as to what really constitutes demonic possession.

Hee hee hee, you guys!

Curator, I'm packing up some crafting tools and supplies right now, so far I've got more accumulated in those few boxes than you seem to own in total . Even though we've pared down enormously it still seems like a lot of stuff to me. It's all things we use frequently though, doing away with it would mean having to replace it again once we're settled. I don't know how to conquer that unless we give up all hobbies and leisure activities except for reading library books. But I just can't imagine a life without scissors, glue, fabric and embroidery floss...

hey, I havnt slept in 2 days because of food poisoning, mistypes will be abundant, and hopefully all just as hilarious

Coco, personally, I think that kinda stuff is awesome, it serves a purpose, the purpose of helping to stimulate creativity, and generally producing fun and interesting, and sometimes useful items while doing so... not the kind stuff id ever consider clutter Im just trying to get rid of everything I own that I don't really need for any real purpose...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I'm just jealous of your stufflessness. It's something I aspire to but can never quite pull off. Too many "attachments". I mean, I don't really NEED anything at all. I just like it. And I have kids and they use so much stuff every day.
I'm not saying that having things is a bad thing, just the attachment and emotion that gets invested into inanimate objects, that I think is/can be unhealthy. So... I really love all these pictures of the kids, mementos, crafting tools, books, etc... It's a funny thing to *love* a "thing".

When I'm older and my kids have moved out (gah, I'll be in my 60's!) I'm going to get my backpack in order and travel around seeing the sights. Or at least live in a little tiny empty place and spend all my time taking free uni classes (did you know you can go to uni here for free when you're old? Pretty freaking cool, right?).

I owe my lack of attachment to a friendly mugger I met earlier this year... stole my camera, along with many pictures that where important to me, it was my only material possession I loved, and when I realized how deeply it hurt me to lose it, I also realized how silly of me it was to be so attached to it to begin with...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator Wrote:
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> I owe my lack of attachment to a friendly mugger I
> met earlier this year... stole my camera, along
> with many pictures that where important to me, it
> was my only material possession I loved, and when
> I realized how deeply it hurt me to lose it, I
> also realized how silly of me it was to be so
> attached to it to begin with...

May I differ with you? It is normal to be attached. That is what humans do. The point is to not be attached to things that are no good for you. If your camera and esp. the photos were meaningful, well, there you go. Why should you not have meaningful things in your life?

I will have to differ with you on that, because there is no reason for a camera and photos to be that meaningful... there are far more important things in life, and things you dont need are a waste of time and energy to be that attached to...a camera can never be more full of meaning than even a single gesture, a look, or brief touch from some one you love, and I was so upset about losing that camera I didn't realize at first how happy I should be that I wasn't in a hospital or dead, that I have nearly uncountable moments left to feel real things, than worrying about a hunk of plastic full of memories that will never be more vivid than the ones in my heart.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?