My husband and I are going back and forth on something concerning our desire and need to stay environmentally aware and self sustainable but also avoid the yuppie trendiness of said movement. Right now our main dilemma is trying to decide whether to live in the city or on a farm when we are out of our current situation.

City life is sustainable, life without a car is entirely possible - mass transit and not taking up more space than necessary is definitely a good choice environmentally. Of course, farmers markets and hopefully a community garden would be a part of this lifestyle. Bartering is attainable and so is living cooperatively.

Farm life (not many acres but enough to grow a large garden) is also appealing. This is how I grew up - we lived on the farm and hardly ever shopped - my dad traded services for food we couldn't grow ourselves. I love this plan but acres for one family is not very sustainable and it would be hard to get by without a car. However, it would be easier to practice other environmentally conscious actions such as being off grid electrically and having an outhouse and such.

What are your opinions? I realize its a personal choice and of course that varies for people but I'm curious to open a debate on the subject. Communes (or ecovillages) are not an option, unfortunately. I looked into them before I met my husband but my husband is not open to the idea. He believes in Dawkins - the "get ahead" social factor that dictates many individuals will cheat the system whatever that system may be and feels he could not abide freeloaders, something he believes the commune mentality lends itself to.

If you live in either of the situations above, what do you feel are the pros and cons? If not, what is your general opinion on the matter?

I'd love to be an urban farmer; living on a property in a city with sufficient vacant land around me to farm for my own sustenance and to produce surplus which I could give away in barter for other things from neighbors. This would be a good combination of urban amenities and rural living.

Ten points to you for your "Dawkins" reference It is probably prudent of your husband to not consider communal living, as I imagine it would be difficult to adjust to if one isn't drawn to that lifestyle by temperament.

Older suburban areas sometimes have large lots. That would give you sufficient room for growing a large garden. Could be a solution for you?

My solution has been to live on a farm that is walking distance from town! (That is hard to find in the US, though.)


My favorite raw vegan

reina

sounds like u already have a clear reference of how to go about doing this since you grew up in a family in which growing food and bartering was the norm

study that blueprint thoroughly and then integrate it with your own desires and that of your family

i would personally not wish to live in a ecovillage community unless each hut was VERY far away from me and i did not have to convene and consult every single day

as far as avoiding the "yuppy trend"

don't worry

no one is keeping tabs on you and thinking "is she being a yuppy trendster or what"?

i like tamukha's and trive's ideas too

maybe also ask your kids what they want and have them write it out and such
then break all the ideas apart and decide which are feasible and most desirable

I am working very hard now to get out of the city and into the woods- self sufficiant and off gridd. Got my last electric bill down to $13.00 in preperation.

Farm...woods...county living for sure. I spent a small amount of time in a city & it was not for me. The country living offers me everything I need.

No foul air and chlorinated fluorinated water for me - garbage, noise pollution -- country living is the way to go if you want to be healthy and raise a family.

Actually, when I think about it, I kinda like the idea of the city. If everyone stays in the city, then I have the woods all to myself!

Like the state of Oregon used to have a sign at the border that said you can visit but dont stay.

id go for the farm, and a really fuel efficient vehicle, so when you DO need to use it, your using as little fossil fuels as possible...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Great input, thanks everyone! No doubt we will lean toward the country. Trees sing to me and I think the closeness and noise of the city will eventually wear me down.

As for my kids, well they'll do what I tell them to. Lol, not really but yes in a way. They will adapt and thrive as children are meant to. Of course it helps that they are still young enough to be adaptable.

Oh and La_Veronique, I'm not worried about people labeling me as a yuppie trendster. I just don't typically like that sort of person and yes I am being narrow minded but I believe being environmentally conscious consists of more than carrying reusable shopping bags in my Prius to the supermarket.

reina 8o sayz

<<I believe being environmentally conscious consists of more than carrying reusable shopping bags in my Prius to the supermarket.>>


OMG!! too funny. i am laughing my tail off
so hilariouz!

i agree that it is kind of a mind bending gargantuan task to live in the city if you want to be environmentally conscious because the very definition of city living is utilizing(destroying) the environment for city folk's usage.

I don't want to live in a "Sustainable Living" Community -

[www.youtube.com]

Here's the list from ICLEI where you can go live if that's your bag - Sustainable Community --

[www.iclei.org]

KidRaw,

How can I be afraid of the Metric System and avail myself of ICLEI's services? Won't my head explode?

Seriously, thanks for posting the link to ICLEI; very useful for the future.

City. That's where we're headed now. This country living just isn't for me, so much dang driving involved! Sheesh. Maybe if I could be on an already established self-sustaining little farm but man oh man, anything else means car time galore and I just can't take it anymore!

here is a couple of links of 2 folks growing large amounts of food in small spaces in the city

[www.youtube.com]\

and

[urbanhomestead.org]

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 06:03PM by Jgunn.

Jodi,

Thanks for those links. I spent a few hours earlier reading up on Lierre Keith(The Vegetarian Myth), and viewing the video and the site restored my sanity

Here's another good website that has a lot of useful information for those who want to live in the country --

You can check out "Region by Region" to find out where not to buy land --

[www.takingliberty.us]

I like the Easement section; that's popular right now --

[www.takingliberty.us]

You might not want to live in these cities --


The Ten Filthiest Cities:

[www.thisblogrules.com]

KidRaw,

Judging by the comments beneath, not a scientific or even good compilation: Rio's not on there. Rio. And, I'm not from there, but Pittsburgh? Really? Who is the housebound twit that wrote that blog?!

Here's more information on the "Sustainable Communities" Problem --

***********

[www.campaignforliberty.com]

""Land...cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also the principle instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth, and therefore, contributes to social injustice..."

So for those of us who would like to own and farm our own land, the Sustainable Community Agenda is the antithesis of our dream.

KidRaw,

Your link doesn't really pertain to how land redistribution is happening in the States, at least where small scale urban farming is taking root[ha-ha!]. Personally, I'm glad there's such a thing as zoning law, or instead of abutting a fallow meadow, my backyard would abut "detached condos," or worse, a small scale hog farm, LOL!

Here's an update on the Food Safety Modernization Act, Water Restoration Act, and Livable Communities Act. They're trying to force we health-conscious folks - whose dream it is to own our own small piece of land in the country with a little creek or pond and raise our own food - into living in 'sustainable communities' in the cities -

Food Safety Modernization Act, Water Restoration Act, Livable Communities Act

[canadafreepress.com]

More info -

[www.americanthinker.com]

The Livable Communities Act -

[www.americanthinker.com]


And here's where you can try to make a difference -

Stop Livable Communities Act:

[tinyurl.com]

Ah, yes, the Government Website! LOL

The Government Can -

[www.youtube.com]

Baaa,..baaaa....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 07:11PM by KidRaw.

That was a delightfully entertaining video! LOL

Reina, you can find these types of places in the US. I currently live in a middle-class neighborhood in a city on over half an acre (as is most of the neighborhood). We do have a car for convenience, but just one and it's not necessary if someone is really set against it. I am two blocks from a bus stop, and 4 blocks from a large shopping strip. Commercial farming isn't allowed on lots this side, but hobby gardening is (i.e., you don't sell your produce for large sums).

On my same block there is a professional gardener who uses every inch of his lot to grow large varieties of plants that he shares for free when he thins his gardens. He also gives away or sells any excesses of produce he has for nominal fees, like 3 lbs. of heirloom tomatoes for $2. Another neighbor on my block is a handyman who normally takes cash payment for services, but does help some of the elderly in the neighborhood with other forms of payment.

I am hoping to do an addition to this house as some of the older construction is too small for my frame. At that time I would like to add some solar panels to help with energy costs, although not enough to take me 'off-grid'. There are no restrictions as to placement, etc. in this neighborhood. Several people have them on the front of their homes.

We used to live a few miles from here on a larger property that was just over a mile from a shopping center with grocery store and many common conveniences. However, it was a country road into town without sidewalks and fast traffic. So, despite it's 'convenient' location it was still isolated. There was an HOA with very different goals and ideas than my family had, so I felt restricted. The property was big enough to qualify as a commercial farm (as were many properties in the area), but it was hard to grow anything because of the neighbors' trees shading the property and we weren't really interested in livestock. So, even though we now technically in a city rather than the rural suburb we were before, we are more free to live an environmentally-friendly lifestyle.

So, yes. I think if you and your husband are determined to find a happy medium between complete self-sufficiency and urban convenience, you can find it. It might take a few Goldilocks tries though.

KidRaw,

Amusing video. Also, irrelevant. If you are going to discuss a government bill, it behooves you to read the PDF of the actual legislation and study it before deciding whether it is good or bad. I like being informed from primary sources, rather than hearsay, innuendo, agitprop, or paranoic screed. But maybe that's just me . . .

=( I guess my attempt to get the thread back on-topic wasn't very effective. Oh, well.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Amusing video. Also, irrelevant.
>

I don't know why but that just struck me as hilarious!

"Must assimilate KidRaw into the hive. Resistance is futile!"
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 07:41AM by RocketShip.