I have a hard time with forgiveness and lately I am extremly angry with some people from my family and my husband family.Sometimes I can't even forget them because I am so mad of them. They were so mean and despicable with me that I can't forgive them.
I know that this is making me sick with my digestion because I can't swallow all the anger.Maybe I could spit it,but I can't. Do you know how to forgive and forget ?
I would love to forget this people.

A couple of books that have helped me let go of lingering bad feelings about certain people and events are the work of Louise Hay and the book Loving What Is by Byron Katie. You can find them at the library if you want to check them out and see if they help you.

It's a lot of hard work to hold onto a grudge. It takes so much more effort than just letting it go. And think about this... whatever you are angry with a person for doing you are guilty of doing that same thing over and over again to yourself in your own mind. You hurt yourself far more with that repeated assault than they ever did the one time they injured you. So focus on being kinder to yourself by not beating yourself up with those horrible memories over and over again...

Thank you so much Coco.
You are so right.I should focus on forgive myself and think and being kind with myself. yes,those memories are like a terror movies in my mind. I'll turn them off.
In the end I am hurting myself much more.You are completly right.I'll change the focus to myself. Thank you so much.
I'll look for the books.Thanks again.

*hugs*

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I have friends that have read the Louise Hay books & they really got a lot out of them.


...Eagles - "The Heart Of The Matter"

[www.youtube.com]

"There are people in your life
who've come and gone.
They let you down
you know they hurt your pride.

You better put it all behind you baby;
cause life goes on.
You keep carryin' that anger;
it'll eat you up inside, baby !

I've been trying to get down
to the heart of the matter.
But my will gets weak
and my thought seem to scatter.

But I think it's about
forgiveness,
forgiveness..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2011 04:24PM by juicerkatz.

cy,

The books are good suggestions. Remember that a thing, once it has occurred, has occurred. It can help to put it in the past, where it belongs, as though literally putting an object into another room and shutting a door forever. You recall the object is still there, but without feeling anything. This way you are aware of what has happened but that it isn't in the Now with you, and that it can only affect you if you let it by interacting with it in the Now. I wish you peace and healing.

Thank you Tamukha.
I do understand. I do have to learn to let everything in the past go, and also forgive myself for let things happen to me.
I also have to learn not to let this people hurt me again.
Thank you JuicerKatz and Curator.

This is just amazing, I was going to start a thread on something simliar. I wanted to be able to have more compassion, and tolerance for some of the ignorance that people have. Also to be more forgiving for things that have happened to me also. I just realize now that they just won't say "I'm sorry" or feel any guilt for having done anything wrong. That has always been the most angering part for me is wanting them to say they are sorry, or at least feel remorse or something.

Its odd, but one break through moment in this came from watching 'the simpsons'. Yes, I admit to watching it. But Mr. burns said something to the effect that he was never doing to see smithers as an equal, and never respect him. It was rather comic, but it had an irritating quality for me. Thats because one person in my life was always just so subtlely cutting at best, and downright condescending at worse. I always wanted him to treat me better, and see me as an equal, you know like a friend. But he was some ivy league graduate with some incredible vocabulary, that every once and awhile I would have to ask what he just said. His usual response was something like I had a 5th grade education or something like that.

So, hes now dead. I have no illusions now that he was ever a friend. I also have no illusions that he would never see me as an equal, or set down his ivy league attitude for anything. Actually, I don't think he could. I always wished he could.

Elizabeth Kubler Ross said something to the effect of us all being like stain glass windows. When the sun is out, we are able to easily allow the light to shine through us. But when darkness sets in, our true beauty shines only if we are lit up from within.

The inner light is the truest form of independence. I think that is what the human journey is all about: the adventure of accessing that light in the midst of darkness.

I am not exactly sure what forgiveness means exactly. Sometimes, I think it just means to have compassion for others who are hurting. Thus, their actions might still be unforgiveable but just to acknowledge that they are hurting might be a first step.

Mislu,I hear you. The most hurtful thing is that we did try to be friend and this people just treated us like we are not to their level (social,educational,..any level). Does a human being has level? If all of us are human beings we are on a human being level, but this people have some child-suffering-inferiority that they dump on others,on us. And,like you said la veronique, the best thing is to have compassion,but most of all compassion for us ,first because if we have compassion and love for us,like the light inside of the glass window, we have compassion for everyone,like the light outside of the glass window.

That made me remember Mother Teresa's Poem (that I love):

Mother Teresa's Anyway Poem

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway.

Love it. Thank you.

<3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

this may sound a bit too graphic but.....maybe it can help.

what if someone brought in a big bag full of "you know what" and dropped it right in the middle of your living room and walked out leaving you to decide what to do.

how long would you sit there smelling it before you took action to put it out of your valuable living space.

well...that's kinda like what the memory of something really negative inside your head is like?

why would you allow the stench of something like that to remain inside you mind...people sometimes ...er oftentimes latch on to a negative as such and savor the stench evan though they know what it really is.

perhaps it is because we have not a sense organ like our nose inside our mind to warn of such repulsiveness....and there is a sneaky learned acquired trait which we have learned from others who also learned from others while "growing up" and it stays with us until we discover it take action to not attach to such by not identifying with it.

perhaps at one time mankind had such sense within and the pain of such would immediately cause him to get rid of it immediately. a pure heart would be an example of.

we all are suseptible to this temptation to latch onto and actually enjoy neagative states and evan cling to them for years and years.

it is the egoic mind which is responsible and only the humility deep within the "poor in spirit" which can set us free from identifying with the egoic mind which has absconded with our true self identity.

until we figger it out....that our self is not the body...and not this egoic mind we are held hostage to situations and events like those which you describe in your posting here.

we must somehow realize that we are not this ego=personality and...... we are not this body in which we navigate the earthly terrain in for such a very short period of time in. and if we identify with such as being who we are ...we are denying ourselves the opportunity of accomplishing the mission for which we are set upon the earth for.

we are planted onto this earth by a Higher Power to discover who our true self is. if we continue identifying with ego and body as our identity(identifying with it) we shall be imprisoned by its endless activities in an illusionary state of being.

we must wake up from this identification with egoic mind and body and change our way of thinking about alot of stuff. the greek word for this change is translated as repenting...believe it or not!

once we change our ways... by changing our way of thinking ( repenting) we become elgible to begin getting help from the Higher Power. at some point we can actually let the old man or the "ego mind-false personality" (inhereted from eons of generations past) shrivel up and die. Faith is simply believing..... without doubt .....that a power which is higher than we are is existing.

the "old man" dies and the NEW MAN ...the enlightened one is born within us. the old thrives on the external phenomena and the NEW MAN thrives on the universe within us.

this is what Jesus Christ was teaching those who would have ears to hear and eyes to see....foregiveness is a very important part of that very process.

please take out the garbage.....it will be a good start!

jj



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2011 12:09AM by juicin' john.

great post JJ

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

There has been more baloney written & spoken about forgiveness than you can imagine. Forgiveness isn't something you "do". It is something that happens when God decides you have suffered enough from your attachment to the bad memories. One morning you wake up and you realize that you can think about the cruelty committed against you and not be angry or upset at all. It just goes through you.

Saying, "Oh, I must forgive that person for such & such" is laughable. It is like Alan Watts said - trying to raise yourself in the air by pulling at your own bootstraps. It is in our own best interests to be angry and distressed until that magic moment when it stops of its own accord.

Wow, that is profound, Horsea! You're one of the most down-to-earth sensible people I know.

the real knack is to realize that you need not latch onto or identify with anything which you ego takes as an offence. the ego is a fabrication of the mind......

and taking out the garbage means to not be offended by something which that fabricated impostor the ego relishes the flavor of....in such a case the ego is who you think you are. if that is who you think you are then you are stuck until you realize otherwise.

easier said than done...but not at all impossible.

Horsea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There has been more baloney written & spoken about
> forgiveness than you can imagine. Forgiveness
> isn't something you "do". It is something that
> happens when God decides you have suffered enough
> from your attachment to the bad memories. One
> morning you wake up and you realize that you can
> think about the cruelty committed against you and
> not be angry or upset at all. It just goes through
> you.
>
> Saying, "Oh, I must forgive that person for such &
> such" is laughable. It is like Alan Watts said -
> trying to raise yourself in the air by pulling at
> your own bootstraps. It is in our own best
> interests to be angry and distressed until that
> magic moment when it stops of its own accord.


Horsea,

Is this how you really feel? It almost seems too extreme. I will be the first to admit that I do not have a good answer for forgiveness...

but, I know people who have taken their grievances to their grave with them...so you feel that God wanted them to suffer right to the bitter end?

I'm taking about decent folks here, who did not deserve to suffer the injustices that were done to them...

I think Horsea is saying it is not our conscious self who decides to forgive, but Forgiveness is given to us by the Grace of God.

KidRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Horsea is saying it is not our conscious
> self who decides to forgive, but Forgiveness is
> given to us by the Grace of God.

I understand God's forgiveness towards us, but I am referring to human forgiveness, as the original poster is talking about.

From my understanding of the Christian Bible, we are to make a conscious decision to forgive someone. It is something I struggle with...personally...

At times, I "feel" like I have forgiven a person, but then something occurs to cause that old hurt to resurface again, stinging, uglier, more hurtful than ever...

does that mean I never forgave in the first place, even though at the time I genuinely felt as if I had?

Ive enjoyed many of the things you have said in this topic Juicin John, please post in non juicer related stuff more often, I enjoyed your posts here even if I don't agree with them 100%, I liked them a lot. thank you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

juicerkatz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> At times, I "feel" like I have forgiven a person,
> but then something occurs to cause that old hurt
> to resurface again, stinging, uglier, more hurtful
> than ever...
>
> does that mean I never forgave in the first place,
> even though at the time I genuinely felt as if I
> had?

I don't know.

as we begin to purify our hearts...things like unforgiveness will feel "really stinky" and we will naturally let go of them "rather than holding on to them and and needing to wear a clothespins on the "noses" of our lovingly purified hearts.." a pure and loving heart will not like how it feels to hold on to the hatred and vanity which prolongs our attachment to not forgiving another."



awakening from the world level of sleeping men by non judgementally observing ourselves in these situations and oneday we have seen "the thing" so many times that we say " hey, i'm not going with it this time"..... voila..first step on the journey of a thousand miles. we must create the "observing I" to observe the nasty habits of the "ego-personality-identification with the body complex". man is the only creature who can observe itself...this is the part of us that never dies..if we shall help it to emerge and overcome the prison of the egoic mind.

we finally admit to having a problem with negative "crap" and can now begin the process by changing our way of thinking.(repent ....as translated from the greek word metanoia)

after awhile the "egoic mind-falsepersonality-body identified complex" starts to shrivelup and die for lack of use.

.....and then we can be reborn as our true SELF.

This is what Jesus Christ taught about the Kingdom of Heavan.

jj

Resentments and hatred are emotions, that's all. You can't control your emotions. You can control how you express them, and must do so, but nevertheless they are still inside and Almighty God Himself decides when they will go. Not me, not you.

Juicerkatz spoke thus:

" I'm taking about decent folks here, who did not deserve to suffer the injustices that were done to them..."

Deservedness is not ultimately decided by us, is it. There is the limited human view of "justice" and there's Universal Justice. Yes, it is a mystery.

I can remember as a young girl being upset when some other girls rebuffed my offer of friendship. When I told my mother about it she told me that they were missing out and it was their loss.

That stuck with me all my life.

Instead of wondering what was wrong with me, I was able to feel sorry for them! Changing my point of view changed my feelings about the situation entirely.

My experiences have shown me that emotions are more of a choice than many people think they are.

Being able to forgive (or no longer care) and move on can also be a choice.


My favorite raw vegan

Wow, this thread has gotten all cosmic! I am thankful to everyone that has posted here

Trive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can remember as a young girl being upset when
> some other girls rebuffed my offer of friendship.
> When I told my mother about it she told me that
> they were missing out and it was their loss.
>
> That stuck with me all my life.
>
> Instead of wondering what was wrong with me, I was
> able to feel sorry for them! Changing my point of
> view changed my feelings about the situation
> entirely.
>
> My experiences have shown me that emotions are
> more of a choice than many people think they are.



Have you never rejected anyone? What about that person's feelings?

I think your mum - as good mums do - was trying to assuage your pain. But those girls had every right to reject you for friendship, just as you or I may sometimes be approached by someone and we feel a need to reject them. I have been rejected, too, and down the line (maybe years later) I came to understand that they may have had their reasons. I may simply not have been suitable or right for them at the time. Sometimes these social situations are sticky & complicated, unfortunately.

We are better people for having been rejected and handled it graciously. We thereby learn how to reject others with understanding (I hope!)

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, this thread has gotten all cosmic! I am
> thankful to everyone that has posted here


C'mon, Tam..your turn to share, lol...

jk,

I believe that one can come to forgiveness through a conscious effort. I'm a Scorpio and if I had waited for a "higher power" to interevene in my held feelings of resentment and anger, whole continents would have caught fire in the meantime . . . As someone who has had to work to let go of hard feelings, consciously and arduously, I know that it was, in that case anyhow, an innate response in myself, and not something from "without." At nearest, it may have been the "without" that is always within acting with me. But not through me; I appreciate people here that assert that a deity or higher power releases one to forgive, but I reject this notion because it makes me a passive participant in my feelings. I am not an empty vessel. For the Good any more than for the Adversary.

I do believe that forgiveness is a choice,and that when people are mean and reject us it's their own personal problem.they are not rejecting or being mean with us personally but they are having an "acting out" of a problem that they had in childhood and we,in a way,pressed their bottons at that time. (I hope I could expressed this idea ).

But what if this person is in your family and is mean and reject you all the time?
What can you do? You can't get rid of this person,you have to encount this person sometimes in a family gathering.What should you do?
You have to protect yourself from them,I believe.Yes,you forgive,you forget but you have to have a love relationship with yourself and not let people walk over you.
Abusers,bullies and people that takes advantage of us,what should we do about them if they are from the same blood or your spouse blood?