I was on 30 bananas a day and found this ebook called How I Clobbered Every Bureaucratic Cash-Confiscatory Agency Known To Man: A Spiritual Economics Book on $$$ and Remembering Who You Are by Mary Elizabeth Croft. It explains how most of the debt we incur is not really a contract between two people and is not really an obligation. This book is an eye opener.

Not really an obligation, huh? Well, technically speaking, that may be true, but try telling that to the party holding your mortgage.

Horsea,

Can they prove they hold your mortgage?

Prana,

I started reading it and then checked the updated date of printing--2005. That's like a millenium ago! Maybe there's information in it that transcends what happens in economies. Look forward to reading the rest, and thanks for posting

This ties into the whole "Natural Person" thing, the basis for many not paying taxes and refusing to register themselves via social security numbers etc. It's interesting stuff but you have to be willing to stick to it and possibly go to jail while lawyers duke it out in court over the letter of the law. Not something I can do with kids but certainly something I am very interested in.

I am currently debt free and it's amazing not to have that burden on my shoulders. I don't own anything, house, car etc, but I am also no longer owned by debt. It's good.

I read a little pamphlet lately put out by the (modern) Mennonite church entitled Take The Bang Out Of Your Buck, it's a little encouragement to look into ways to ensure your tax dollars aren't used in any war efforts. Pretty radical stuff, actually. They are basically starting you on the path to refusing to pay taxes. It's legal to do so based on the grounds of non-violence, there is some sort of loophole that states you can protest your tax money being used for violence against other countries. Again, you'd have to stick with it and duke it out in court but it's not an impossibility.

happy to say too im debt free the last was paying off my one time first and only brand new car i bought 8 years ago lol once pedro the wonder wagons engine starts to go , i am going to have it rebuilt and converted to a biodiesel

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I see money as like ATP, adenosine triphosphate.

ATP is a carrier of energy in the cell.

Money is also a carrier of energy.

Money allows the indirect exchange of energy between entities.

For example, money allows me to buy food at the shop, and the food was grown not by the shop owner but by a farmer who I may never be in direct contact with.

Debt is interesting. It would be nice if my energy offerings could be used to pay down debt. For example, I am putting some of my energy into writing this post on this forum, and maybe my insights here are of value to somebody, and it would be nice if this energy offering could help pay off my college loan. My energy offerings may trickle throughout Gaia and so maybe the bank/workers that holds my college loan eventually feels positive effect from my word and thought-based creations.

Money.

Money.

Neat thing money, but I think the world is ready for more evolved means of energy transference.

Micro money transfer will be cool when it reaches a state of easy fluidity such that I could swiftly tip Bryan a couple pennies for starting this interesting thread.

Micro payments via internet, as well as offline which is sort of becoming always online anyway, will be a way for humanity to evolve into some kinda of super awesomeness of new and vital proportions.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------



"I read a little pamphlet lately put out by the
(modern) Mennonite church entitled Take The Bang
Out Of Your Buck, it's a little encouragement to
look into ways to ensure your tax dollars aren't
used in any war efforts. Pretty radical stuff,
actually. They are basically starting you on the
path to refusing to pay taxes. It's legal to do so
based on the grounds of non-violence, there is
some sort of loophole that states you can protest
your tax money being used for violence against
other countries. Again, you'd have to stick with
it and duke it out in court but it's not an
impossibility".

In theory I agree with the Mennonites, but the fact is that the government will never let you get away with it. They will make your life a living hell, with endless audits and court appearances and so on and so forth.

If I could get away with it, I would, though. I hate all those damn foreign wars where our governments are imposing our ideas onto other peoples. Actually, about the war in Afghanistan, the original motivation was to find the Al Qaeda guys and kill them. Now, they don't talk about that anymore. Now it's "nation building", installing democracy and "helping women and children". Sheesh. They think we are stupid and I guess we are! Because when the parents of a killed soldier are interviewed, they say, "I am so proud of my Jimmy! It was for a great & just cause, he gave his life for The Mission. Now the people of Afghanistan will have a better life." I wonder what the IQs of these parents are.

Pretty freaking low to raise a kid who volunteers to go to another country to get his face blown off by a suicide bomb worn by a teenager willing to sacrifice his own life to get foreign soldiers the Feck out of his or her country. Pretty freaking low.

Sorry, the judgement is so heavy in that statement but I am sick to death with all the needless violence. It's an ugly way for those at the top to make another buck. We could stop them if we weren't all so stupid.

Read the book. It shows you how to get free. Freedom is a choice. As is slavery.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty freaking low to raise a kid who volunteers
> to go to another country to get his face blown off
> by a suicide bomb worn by a teenager willing to
> sacrifice his own life to get foreign soldiers the
> Feck out of his or her country. Pretty freaking
> low.
>
Now I wouldn't be too quick to blame the parents for "Jimmy's" love of hopeless self-sacrifice. I knew of a liberal-minded couple who were peaceniks, etc. etc. In spite of their best efforts, they raised a kid who couldn't wait to join the Marines, go overseas & kill strangers. There's so many factors in what makes us the way we are. Doncha think?

By the way, most of the deaths of "our" soldiers in Afghanistan are caused by roadside bombs and not suicide bombs. But of course there's some of that in all those middle eastern wars where "we" have no business being.

It is true that some happy-to-kill soldiers were raised by parents just like them, but I would be careful about attributing everything to parents. I don't blame my parents for all the things that are wrong with me; and I don't blame myself for what's wrong with my offspring, either. Or am I starting another topic here, when I shouldn't be.

Discussions morph, that is the nature of communication.
I am so concerned with the influence of school mates, media etc on my children that I'm looking for a way to get them away from it. I know I can't protect them entirely nor should I try but parents are indirectly responsible for a lot. I'm trying to pay attention to that.

Debt free here.
All I have is my monthly utility bills.

Vinny

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty freaking low to raise a kid who volunteers
> to go to another country to get his face blown off
> by a suicide bomb worn by a teenager willing to
> sacrifice his own life to get foreign soldiers the
> Feck out of his or her country. Pretty freaking
> low.
>
> Sorry, the judgement is so heavy in that statement
> but I am sick to death with all the needless
> violence. It's an ugly way for those at the top to
> make another buck. We could stop them if we
> weren't all so stupid.

Coco, I agree with you that war is evil. The only thing I would have you consider is that there are kids out there who genuinely want to help out in the Middle East. I have heard the ads and they stress that idea because it preys on the goodness of some people who always want to help. Yes, there are psychotic people who join the military because of violent tendencies but I think the majority get sold a bill of goods: rah-rah patriotism, "we are so proud of you" bee ess, "You can fight for others' 'freedom'" (even though they didn't ask for us to butt in!). I actually called my local theater (in a very liberal town, I might add) when they showed a commerical for the National Guard before the show. They use this low-vibration death metal music in the background and there's lots of explosions to appeal to excitement junkies and fans of action movies. It reminds me of that old SCTV bit with John Candy: "That blowed up REAL good!" The theater owner told me that other people had complained. He seemed genuinely glad to get the feedback. I wonder if he eventually canned the ad...

Did you see the transformer movies? Disgusting. People are letting their little kids watch that garbage, it's no wonder kids grow up thinking the army is "cool". It's no damn accident, that's for sure.

I have heard that video games these days are designed to desensitize children to violence, particularly to fit into the military. How any parent can allow "games" where people are hit or otherwise injured to cause blood to spurt, women are sexual objects, cars are stolen, etc. is beyond me. I believe some are just unaware and give in to their kids and some are afraid of their kids not "liking" them. I am completely out of the loop (thankfully). I think it's all trash. No redeeming value whatsoever. If you can, I think the best thing would be for your kids to be part of a homeschooling network with like-minded parents. Maybe you can even start one, especially if you are particularly good in a particular subject. Where I live, parents can check out the curriculum for each grade out of the library! But it is a big IF, depending on where you live and with whom...

The homeschooling network here is very religious, they teach their kids creationism and G-d figures into most of the lessons on any subject whatsoever (they have their own curriculum they use, it is very religious. Very). I want my kids to learn about natural sciences, not that the world is 6000 years old and that they were born dirty sinners. Maybe when we move again there will be a different sort of homeschooling network there. Sigh.

there are some games that are amazing and beautiful, id check out Okami if your interested in a fun game, that is extremely artistic, there is sort of some violence, but its against strange/funny looking monster things, that disappear in a shower of flowers/smoke when defeated... did I mention your primary tool for battle is a magical paint brush? you also use this paintbrush to alter the world around you, making trees and flowers appear, cutting them down if youd like, drawing a sun in the sky to switch forward to day time, all sorts of crazy fun things... it is really awesome... probably one of my all time favorite games. (im not a fan of bloody and violent games)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

This is the worst, the very worst and most insidious form of violence to entice children into every increasingly violent games of destruction IMO. It is EXACTLY the same as the most bloody, gory game out there but has had weapons and guts replaced with paintbrushes and flowers. As an adult you can tell the difference but for a child this only primes them to escalate to a more realistic game and eventually to become desensitized to the real thing. It's appalling.
Even if you take great care, how many parents don't think twice about their kids seeing what's on the cover of the news paper? Or over hearing the news on radio or seeing it on TV? Children are exposed to so much horror and we don't even think twice about it. It's a shame. I am forever grateful that we grew up mostly without television. We felt deprived but we had no idea.

Wow Coco, I didn't realize the Left Coast had that bastion of holy rollers, too...LOL- I thought it was primarily a Texas/Deep South thing. Actually, I believe that evolution and Creationism are absolutely compatible, but I disagree with any teaching that involve shaming people into feeling low as worms. IMO it's a way to control the flock. You must live in a very conservative area? I didn't know if you were still in Canada or were living in CA, now. But I thought both places would be very progressive, even to the point of being "out there." I have heard that there are definitely conservatives in the state.

I'm in the heart land here, Ontario. We're just south of Detroit Michigan, across the river. Ontario is a fairly progressive country but there is a lot of farmland here and tons of religious and/or redneck good ole boys out this way. It's amazing just how fundamentalist so many people who are into natural living are. They are a tiny group of people but so is the homeschooling community and they cross over in this area.

I don't think creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive, evolution is now accepted by every major religion in the world after all. But I can't agree with teaching children that the planet is only 6000 years old of that Jesus rode a t-rex .

Wow, Coco, you are just over the Midwest! For some reason I thought you were out west. The strange thing is that Canada has gotten so conservative in the last decade; I assumed that "they" made it that way (with a conservative PM) so that "radical" Americans who didn't like the way things were going in the USA could escape there. I actually looked into going to Canada and it was fairly ridiculous--you have to have a college degree (I have one, but my partner does not but is still an intelligent man!), it was very expensive...Not too encouraging even though they claimed they were looking for people to go there. I wonder if work visas could be had and if you can dance around it somehow? If you or anyone else knows, then I would like to find out.

I don't actually know a thing about moving to Canada from another country, you'd think I would. There must be info on the internet about it... Funny that the govt here requires immigrants to have a college education, their degrees aren't acknowledged so we have rocket scientists and doctors driving cab in Toronto. Fairly ridiculous that.
I was out west, we came back 4 years ago when I was expecting the small girl and her papa fell off the face of the earth. I have family here you see. We're ready to move along though, it really is a little thick in redneckery here for us.

Ha ha...rednecks up there, too? I have lived here all my life and it's "librul" as all get out. So I am not familiar with living amongst that ilk although I suppose as with anything in life, there are always good aspects with the not so much ones...

Coco, the game isnt for children, I suggested she tried it herself, it is less violent than the average childrens book, but it is meant primarily for adults according to the makers, as it a a bit complicated for children, even though the industry has rated it as appropriate for children it was originally intended for adult audiences by the developers and they have no control over what it is rated, its based loosely on some japanese folklore, which is far more graphic and violent than the game even...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

"less violent than the average childrens book"

Dude, what kind of kids books have you been reading?! Those aren't violent at all!

I'm doing away with screen technology in this house, I'm telling you. No tv and now there are only a couple of movies for rare occasions. If I didn't need to turn the computer on for the phone I'd put it into the closet for a while too. We need to do other things...

Coco,
"Evolution is now accepted by every major religion in the world after all."

Wow, here it is again. Well, I live over a deli that is managed by a bible literalist. I have a feeling he wouldn't accept evolution by any means.

Ive been reading since 4, and the books I read as a child had various acts of violence or aggression against other humans in them, this game is only against monsters which look nothing like humans at all except some have two legs and two arms, most arent even that close... still, I have not suggested that young children play this game, I have said its a good game for adults, it is very beautiful and artistic and unique... the single most interesting game I have ever heard, next thing youl be telling me is that Katamari is to violent... children are more likely to see more violence at the average grocery store than in these games...there are even a number of puzzle and learning related games out there aimed at kids that have no violence at all, not even hints of such...

the main problem is not the games, its the parents letting children play with games not meant for children, that the stores don't even sell to children... most, not all, but most games I have ever played are pretty accurately rated, although even still one should definitely research any game, maybe even play it one self, be4 letting their child... rating or not... the problem is, that because parents do not usually do this, many horrible games get sold, and as the market for those games increased, so do the games like them... the games are just following the market... if the market changes, so will the games... 10,000,000 Buying only good non-violent and educational games, would change the industry far more than 10,000,000 people choosing to never buy a game from them again...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coco,
> "Evolution is now accepted by every major religion
> in the world after all."
>
> Wow, here it is again. Well, I live over a deli
> that is managed by a bible literalist. I have a
> feeling he wouldn't accept evolution by any means.

Thankfully this sort of mentality is the exception to the rule and not that wide spread. The bible is full of contradictions, I find it hysterically funny to hear literalists/fundamentalist try to explain those away. Really, you have to work very hard to be that deluded.

Curator, I totally agree that market trends set the standard for violence etc in kids products. I personally don't buy those sorts of things for my kids and they haven't been watching traditional cartoons and movies. They do see things at school, friend's houses etc and my son saves his allowance money to buy pokemon games but they have very limited exposure to violence in any form at home. I think you can't be too careful about this, children will retain their innocence for as long as you allow it but once you cross the line there's no going back.

ah, my lack of sleep has finally hit me, and im at a complete loss for words, but didnt want to just say nothing, sooo, goodnight! im goin down for a nap!lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Coco, do you allow your kids any computer time? It still floors me to think that parents give their kids laptops and other devices w/Web access and allow them to use it behind closed doors of their rooms! (Pardon me if any parents reading this do this. Not trying to judge but it does concern me.) All the bad stuff out there is confusing to young, impressionable minds. Totally different than full-formed people who can tell fantasy from reality. As for video games, I am 45 and the first ones came when I was already a teenager: Pacman, Tron...Late '70s/early '80s. And I just heard a song by Rush this morning and it totally took me back! LOL!