The purpose of the posting of the article, which I happen to run into at the time, was to illustrate my point of view that the sooner and farther we push sexuality, and especially extreme sexuality at our kids, the more 'mainstream' and 'normal' and acceptable to society, deviant sexuality (which I would call pedophelia) becomes to them.

KidRaw,

Pedophilia is deviant--sexual psychosis--and homosexuality is sexuality--non-psychosis. You want to consider use of a sex toy, or demonstration of one to a college class deviant, fine, that arguably applies. But using that as an excuse to veer into posting a patently homophobic blog entry is wrong. Some of our fellow posters here are gay. Knock it off.

Update: The prof under fire has now apologized. It's ridiculous. He had no intention of doing so, nor did the university express anything but support for him, until this issue blew up so much. Typical of the spinelessness so common these days:

[news.yahoo.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 07:18PM by banana who.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,

Knock it off.

-------------------------------------------------------

Wow! How rude!

I don't think so, I was pretty much thinking the same thing. Why would you even post a link like that here? That was just ugly.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,

You
> want to consider use of a sex toy, or
> demonstration of one to a college class deviant,
> fine, that arguably applies.

You twisted my words.

I never said using a sex toy was deviant, I said pedophilia was deviant.

Quote

deviant sexuality (which I would call pedophilia)

KidRaw,

"You twisted my words"

You have jumped from expressing vehement disgust at the sex toy demonstration--fair enough--to averring that anything diverging from what you believe to be normal has the potential to be deviant. You state that you disagree with early sex instruction in schools--still germane to the original topic. Then, seemingly to ballast your assertion that outside of what is considered normal lies deviancy, you mention pedophilia: far afield from where the thread started, but still sort of topical, at least.

However, here is where it goes awry : Of the many research extracts you might have cited to bolster your position, you instead chose to interpolate into this discussion a blog entry that is not a condemnation of pedophilia, but rather a condemnation of homosexuality via an apparent condemnation of pedophilia. It is a specious argument because it falsely conflates, I repeat, falsely conflates pedophilia and homosexuality.

I am not twisting your words--it seems that you are using your words to take this thread down a slippery slope of errata and intolerance and I should not have to remind you to not express nor imply things which our fellow posters may find deeply personally insulting. Perhaps it is unintentional; if you didn't realize what the blog entry was actually positing, then I apologize for assuming you agree with the blogger that homosexuality is deviant and related strictly to pedophilia. If, on the other hand, you knew full well what the blog entry was saying but were testing the waters to see how far you could take things, well, I just can't let that go without crying foul. You can think whatever you want, but please try to see how a fellow poster who is gay would view that blog entry.

Wow, go to Europe people, this would be non news...

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,

the mentioning of
> Nazis in the first paragraph[!], currently a
> disturbing compulsion among certain groups, merits
> ridicule from someone like me.

-------------------------------------------------------

This is where the writer of the article mentions the word "Nazi" --

Quote

Kinsey collected data from pedophiles, including ex-Nazi commandant Dr. Fritz von Balluseck, who offered his victims a choice: rape or the gas chamber.

So all the writer of the article is doing is explaining who Dr. Fritz von Balluseck is.

So because the writer tells us who Dr. Fritz is, that merits ridicule from you? Anyone who uses to word "Nazi" to describe a Nazi is worthy of ridicule?

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,

a blog entry that is not a
> condemnation of pedophilia, but rather a
> condemnation of homosexuality via an apparent
> condemnation of pedophilia. It is a specious
> argument because it falsely conflates, I repeat,
> falsely conflates pedophilia and homosexuality.

-------------------------------------------------------

The author is telling us the HISTORY of the LEGITIMIZATION AND NORMALIZATION AND ATTEMPT AT LEGALIZATION of Pedophilia and how it is connected to various groups that include gay men and NAMBLA, the man/boy love group, so I guess you're calling him a liar and that his facts are incorrect. I don't know anything about homosexuality or pedophilia myself, but it does seem that man/boy love means homosexuality and maybe pedophilia to me. And the author is not making a " condemnation of homosexuality via an apparent condemnation of pedophilia," as you say, but is condemning THE NORMALIZATION AND LEGITIMIZATION the attempt at LEGALIZATION of Pedophilia and telling us the history of how various factions are trying to legitimize and legalize and normalize pedophilia.

So you twisted his words, also.


********

[en.wikipedia.org]

North American Man/Boy Love Association
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North American Man/Boy Love Association

NAMBLA logo.svg
A NAMBLA logo.[1] The capital M and lowercase b symbolize a man and a boy.
Founders David Thorstad
Type Unincorporated association
Founded 1978
Location New York City and San Francisco
Area served USA
Focus Pedophile, pedarasty activism and education
Mission Removing age of consent laws
Members N/A
Website nambla.org

"The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophile and pedarasty advocacy organization in the United States that works to abolish age of consent laws decriminalizing adult sexual contact with minors,[2][3] and for the release of all men who have been jailed for sexual contacts with minors that did not involve coercion.[2][4] Some reports state that the group no longer has regular national meetings, and that as of the late 1990s to avoid local police infiltration, the organization discouraged the formation of local chapters.[4][5] An undercover detective around 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls.[4] As of 2005 a newspaper report stated that NAMBLA was based in New York and San Francisco, and that it held an annual gathering in New York City and monthly meetings around the country.[4]

NAMBLA has been defended by poet and rights advocate Allen Ginsberg[6] [7] and GAY RIGHTS ACTIVIST Harry Hay."

*************

Oh, I guess Wikipedia also "falsely conflates pedophilia and homosexuality."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2011 12:49AM by KidRaw.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,
>
I apologize for
> assuming you agree with the blogger that
> homosexuality is deviant and related strictly to
> pedophilia.

-------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad you apologized in advance because the issue of homosexuality never even entered my head, and my whole focus was on the ATTEMPT TO LEGITIMIZE AND NORMALIZE AND TRY TO LEGALIZE PEDOPHILIA, and my opinion that attempting to educate students on various explicit sexual activities at a younger and younger age - as evidenced by what is now taught in Sex Education at grade school level - could lead to normalizing and legitimizing other more deviant behaviors like Pedophilia.

*********************

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,
>
it seems that you
> are using your words to take this thread down a
> slippery slope of errata and intolerance and I
> should not have to remind you to not express nor
> imply things which our fellow posters may find
> deeply personally insulting.

-------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like you're trying to accuse me of being homophobic, but it's been a very big stretch.....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2011 01:07AM by KidRaw.

Those were college students, not children.

The rest of this argument is Bullsh!t. Seriously, drop it now.

"in 1973, the APA removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and the homosexual agenda exploded on the mainstream.

Neatly tucked away inside that agenda was the sub-agenda to legalize pedophilia"

with statements like that in the article, and countless others similar to it and much worse, how can you possibly for even a second not think they are trying to basically equate homosexuality with pedophilia? this is ridiculous Kidraw...your defense of a clearly bigoted post...I honestly cant go any further in this discussion without getting banned, I hadnt read the article earlier, and wish I hadnt now...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I wish I hadn't either, it was shockingly offensive.

KidRaw,

The reference to Nazism is ridiculous for this reason: it is a ploy used to establish to the impressionable reader the proceeding argument's definition of deviancy("Nazi" being a dog whistle term), misrepresentation of The Kinsey Institute's work, and worst, it's tying of homosexuality inextricably to pedophilia by conflating man/boy love with general homosexuality, thus insinuating that all homosexuality is potentially deviant.

I have an English degree and a facile understanding of linguistics: please do not suggest that I don't know what I am reading when I read something. NAMBLA, a group all of us who read the papers have heard of, is not a group representing normative homosexual behavior; that is, they represent those with a predilection for same sex pedophilia. The same-sex part of it does not psychologically correlate it with homosexuality. As I again explain, homosexuality is sexuality and pedophilia is pathology. The blogger does not make this distinction, but conspicuously avoids it so as to make a slippery slope argument, which you yourself iterate, by stating that the more normal a thing that is deviant is made to appear, the more acceptable it becomes; I agree generally with this premise. The problem is that homosexuality is normal but pedophilia isn't. By in any way implying that pedophilia will become normalized or acceptable through its being asserted and people's becoming inured against it, one runs the risk of appearing, in connecting it with panhomosexuality, to suggest that this is how homosexuality itself came to be acceptable, that is, that homosexuality is deviant and ultimately wrong morally, the way pedophilia[I'm sure we all agree] is.

By posting this blog entry and defending it as a reliable and accurate source for data, which it is not, you are appearing to support the blog entry's actual underlying argument, which is not merely anti-pedophilic, but broadly homophobic which, is not OK. If you don't support this underlying argument, all right, and I am sorry for assuming you do, but so far you have said nothing to indicate that you recognize that the blog entry is biased and heavy handed. Again, there are lots of legitimate research tracts you might have found to argue instances of normalizing pedophilia. Btw, NAMBLA has been denounced by almost everyone, so they are not an existential problem, and someone should probably alert the hysterical blogger of this.

Lastly, as coco points out, it is a leap to go from discussion of a sex toy demonstration, which as some of use have opined is not necessarily deviant, to college age adults, to arguing without basis that children are being subjected to deviancy in sex ed in school. The blog entry you post does not effectively support this; it's just jeremiad.

I could understand a class talking about the psychology behind certain things. But a class like this sounds like the speakers just wanted to be "watched" and the "attention" as it was their fetish. It's no different then people who have sex in public out of some fetish of getting caught or people who walk around Times Square on leashes at 3am.

It's stupid really..this is what college? Kids are having sex in Jr High and probably elementary school these days. Nobody needs a class to know what sex actually is. Kids are also aware of what "kinks" and "fetishes" are as every kid has access to the internet these days or a magazine. So the performers left an auditoriam of students horny... Yeah, I'm sure they've never felt that before. LOL

youd be surprised how many people ive known my age I had to instruct in the proper use of condoms...seriously...like they didnt even know how to use them properly, complained of them breaking all of the time... turned out it was cause they use them wrong, did a banana demonstration and everything,LOL

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Based on my experiences I would definatley NOT say that college aged kids know what they are doing sexually, LOL. And the only instructional videos available to them are, well, porn. No woman wants to be "taken care of" like that, let me tell you! I say More instruction is needed, not less! Ha.

Are you guys still doing this itchy monkey dance?

It's like watching people beat their heads against a wall!

Give it up Canadian, more real sex education aint gonna happen in the US. Apparently abstinence works well. o.0

Itchy Monkey Dance! lol!

KidRaw, it really looks to me like you are looking for a fight. People asked you nicely to drop this, as the post you linked was hateful. This makes me wonder why you are doing this.

Well...

not to put words in kidraws mouth...

but it looks to me like he is very passionate about his views. SOmetimes they seem "blunt", but that's just his style?

Personally, I am put off by other members posts at times, but I usually let it pass...

Sometimes it not worth responding to...let sleeping dogs lie & all that stuff...

She not he

Opinion is one thing, this is beyond acceptable IMO. It's hateful and personally insulting to our gay members here.

Agreed Coco.