Hi guys-

I took a break because I was disappointed that my OWS thread was locked and the manner in which it was done. I want to reference and respond to something that Coco wrote:

<There is a section provided for off topic discussion but that doesn't mean the owner or moderator intended or will tolerate a free for all. This is a privately owned and funded website and we have to be respectful of the guidelines regardless of our personal feelings about it. Believe me, I have ranted and railed against this in the past but I literally saw this forum go up in ugly, ugly flames and I for one am more than willing to forgo political discussion in the interest of never having to see that happen here again. There are TONS of other places to discuss politics but there is NO other place that is like this one. This is the only 100% raw vegan forum out there (despite the recent honey thing). So, I have avoided the OWS thread for a bit now but I'm not going to stay out of every other thread in the OT. This is my place too, I like it and I'm staying and if I have to be the b!tch and remind people WHY we don't talk heavy politics here, I will. It's not a big hardship to take it outside and it's gotten just that side of ridiculous that I think we all should>

First of all, my thread was about a current event and NOT political. It transcended politics, and if you ever read what I write, I am against politicians in general. It's like talking about the general issue of spirituality versus evangelizing for one particular faith and discounting others.

Second: Any time that an actual political thread "went down in flames" is most likely due to people being intolerant of others' views and I hate to say this, as a progressive, I am consistenly dismayed at the intolerance shown by so-called liberals versus conservatives. It seems to be the "liberals" who are most in favor of forum censorship! Have I liked every so-called conservative view I have read on here? Absolutely NOT! But unlike some, I don't have to run and tattle to the moderator about it and try and control the dialogue. Because make no mistake about locking threads: it's a need to CONTROL. And maybe you can create a little echo chamber but it's not real and it's also not a good way to exhange ideas.

Which brings me to the "rules" and the owners and how I can just go to a political forum: Guess what? This happens on political forums! People are terrified if you don't fit into a predictable little box and contradict their little world view.

This may be a raw-vegan forum but there are plenty of off-topic issues that get discussed. Some are related, like eco-friendly tips but it is a shame to act as if raw vegans don't see the changes in the world, want to be informed about pending legislation (especially as it affects the lives of those who like to eat healthy foods), etc. I think some are hiding behind the rules to try and enact thought control. Freedom doesn't go in just one direction.

i had to read this a few times before i could weigh in thoughtfully

Bryan/Prana or John have said that some political posts, if they remain respectful, and RELEVENT to veganisam, health, raw foods etc would be tolerated

i think that even some political posts have been tolerated to a point because they have remained respectful ..

while you and your thread may transcend politics .. some of the posts and posters in it were becoming provocative and debateable

personally i stayed out of the thread for the very reason i did not want to be drawn into a political argument here

i have to say that for the last 10 years i have been posting here on this forum that i have on many occaisions sent a note (tattled?) to the forum admin suggesting that a thread *maybe* should be shut down because it was just getting out of control. I would also like to state that many of my notes to the admins we talked in private and the threads were allowed to carry on , the admins giving me another point of view, or ignored me entirely . honestly i can say for everyone 20 complaints ... there was maybe MAYBE 1 censorship

personally i wouldnt take it personally

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Thanks for responding, Jodi

I understand what you mean because I know that if I am honest with myself, there were many times I didn't disagree with someone in a respectful manner and I do apologize for that. I gravitate towards sarcasm, thinking it's not the same as calling names, but it's still not the thing to do.

Still, I was thinking about the thread I started regarding Herman Cain and even though I named a candidate and posted the ad, I still wasn't debating any particular political view. It was simply in regards to the ad itself. I could have just as easily done it with a Democrat if it had been as offbeat as that one.

I don't think there has to be a connection with raw veganism, though, because I see threads that don't relate to the issue in any way. OWS and other current events are like the elephant in the middle of the room: too big to ignore and too important, as well. At least I think so...

Well. . I agree with both sides of the equation actually. I basically stopped posting and pretty much left this board in the time of that political slugging match. Saying that though, I think that censoring politics out of the acceptable topic list is too generalized to be helpful.

I think that the best that could be done is probably to have some strict ground rules such as no abuse or cynicism etc.. and then have a small council of moderators who can flag a post as inappropriate or what ever, and when it gets enough flags it is hidden/removed.

Come to think of it.. why not let the community do the moderating like on some other boards... if a post gets enough inappropriate flags from the community then it gets hidden/removed ?

Hmmm...I think your other comment regarding compassion/empathy says it better. Whenever we try to cling to whatever passes for "harmony," drama is created. I have seen this in other people. Despite my penchant for controversy online, I really don't thrive on drama and yet I try to say what I mean and mean what I say in real life. The people who always agree with others (go along to get along) seem to attract the most drama (Librans, I am talking about you especially!)

There is Yin and Yang in life. Actually, some disagreements started about 80/10/10--a raw issue! And that is as it should be. There needs to be both polarities in order for a discussion board to truly thrive. Too much discord and it becomes unpleasant; too much agreement and it becomes redundant, irrelevant, and boring.

I "Occupied" my living room one day. Hung out a white acrylic sweater that my mom gave me off my balcony rail with a sign, "For sale 2 cents." Sadly, no takers, so I gave it to charity.

rawalice,

Your sweater is where it was supposed to end up all along now

Yeah. It did make me think though, and I know this isn't the fabric thread, but think of the landfills full of polyester and acrylic that won't degrade well. I mean, I'm under the impression that Occupy wall street was a cry against "Corporate Greed." If American leadership is anything like (which it does seem to have a similar thing going on) how Poland's historical leadership is described in the book Poland by James Michener, then the corporations practically run America. So where's the greed?

I guess I just wish all clothes were more natural, and if I was going to tell the corporations anything, perhaps that would be a good place to start. I mean, I don't really understand your post. If the acrylics were made for charity, then why would stores like Kohl's and Penney's be full of the crap, and it's not going that cheap. I read a study on how synthetic fibers affect the human immune system. It basically shuts down due to some action of the thymus gland when we're enveloped in it. (I wish I could find the article again) So not only does it pollute our Earth, but may make us sick to boot.
If you haven't tried giving up synthetic fibers, try it, you may feel like a new person. I've had one cold in the several years since I mostly gave up synthetic fibers, and I had switched to a nylon/polyester jacket because my backpack was ruining my good wool coat right around that time. I used to get sick all the time.

Well, if anyone's interested, I'm not feeling like I'm expressing myself all that lucidly, feel free to ask. anyway, I've had an intuition that 10% synthetic fibers woven in may be acceptable somehow.

I guess the greed would be making crappy clothes and charging us cotton prices for the ignorant masses to get sick so the can visit corporate hospitals and of course be billed, as well as the taxpayers paying for medicaid and medicare. (Not politics, just life

Well, rawalice, I can't say I follow your argument, but the greed is also in the fact of foreign workers being paid a nickel a day to handle dangerous synthetics in dangerous working conditions to make us those garments that aren't safe for us to wear.

We had to use acrylic paints in an art class in high school. Hated them--they were garish and difficult to work with a brush. I had to take my canvas home for the weekend and so I filled a small plastic tub from the cafeteria with some extra paint, snapped on the lid, and tightly bound it with masking tape. I put the tub in the pocket of my cardigan for the trip to my locker. Out in the hall it was crowded because it was the end of the school day, and someone bumped into me, on the side having the pocket with the plastic tub in it. The tub cracked, spilling the viscous acrylic paint all over the pocket of my cardigan. Multiple washings, less than an hour later when I got home, failed to get that paint out. Scary that we wear fabric made of that stuff.

sadly the double edged sword is those same people makng 5cents a day really rely on that nickel .. its heartbreaking .. having talked to some of these people in nepal, india thailand and vietnam personally they dread losing their jobs by people boycotting the things that are literally killing them

personallly i refuse to barter locals down on their wares when travelling and often overpay for the things needed or wanted because quite frankly they were far below any sort of fair (in my mind anyways) price anyways in my mind, and if im gonna pay 10$ for a tshirt here than that same tshirt they are trying to flog for .50 cents there is in my mind just as equally worth 10$

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I know, Jodi, that's what kills me: when we boycott something, it's not the real offenders that get punished but their underlings, who really have no choice about what they must do to survive. The system is rigged so that actual evildoers are protected from the consequences of their production processes by artificial market constructs.

Sometimes I think the whole world is insane.

the raw food movement foodies etc are making a huge impact at OWS and taking part is what i see

life vs lifelessness

[www.youtube.com]


This song by Muse makes me think of Occupy Wall Street. Especially when I think about all the boxes of white flour, white sugar, and cornsyrup ingredients that I used to eat unawares of how bad they are for you. I actually bought a box of wheat crackers advertising on the front, "No high fructose corn syrup!) I was so aggravated, it had just plain corn syrup in it instead. I hate when I assume a product has wholesome and natural ingredients and forget to read the label thoroughly before I buy it.

i thought of a major example of something that may have involved corporate greed. Think about the rainforests being turned into methane gas fields. I live in New Jersey, and I can tell you, it sucks on "air quality alert" days. Burger King, what are you doing to remedy this situation?

rawalice, so true!

Did the idea for Occupy wallstreet come from harold and Kumar's 3D Christmas? I just watched it again and thought maybe that's where the idea came from.

rawalice, Good Lord, I hope not!

Have you seen it? It just may have. That kind of gives OWS a whole new flavor,
while still tying in with the greed theme. I mean, I can think of at least five good reasons why marijuana should be "OTC."

I found this video hilarious. (I just thought it might go in with the OWS theme.) [www.youtube.com]

rawalice,

I LOVE those Apple Daily animated things, mostly because I cannot tell if they mean to be funny or if it's a lost-in-translation thing!

Fa ra ra ra ra ra !

Well lookie here! I seems that the accusations now flung against me are mere distractions to derail an honest conversation.