I've been hearing the God word thrown around a bit on the raw forums and YouTube, I'm just wondering what your point of view is when it comes to a raw vegan lifestyle and religion. Is this mostly a christian scene?

Some found a better life with raw food and became closer to God. Others are praying to God from being sick with an unhealthy lifestyle.

Personally, I live as a whole being on earth. But many users bless me with this God. Almost as if some folks already assume you are familiar with this entity, and to become comforted by its presence.

I find it a bit odd, what is your take on it?

As far as I am concerned raw food has nothing to do with religion.

Could you take this discussion to the 'other matters' section please

Agree that this belongs in Other Topics

Raw food and God are very closely related to me.
I had suffered years of depression,and I sensed God leading (more like screaming to me) to give up meat,wheat,and dairy foods,and eat the "foods of the Earth",which ultimately meant raw fruits and veggies.
Depression cured along with many other ailments.

Soooooooooooooooo many people poo poo religeon.
What a shame,and a loss,for them.
I find it inconvievable that anyone wouldnt associate God with what they put into their bodies.

Vinny



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2012 01:33PM by eaglefly.

Vinny you acted on your senses (sensed that god lead you screaming) to do what you have accomplished.

I think no matter what god you beleve in or not or any at all .. i have to believe that any higher power would want us to do just that take matters into our own hands and move forward

Im really happy that you are in a much better place now

personally i find religion , spirituality etc .. to be quite facinating .. no matter the beleif system .. i do enjoy researching it all.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2012 03:45PM by Jgunn.

You can have several things holding your attention in your mind. If food and God are both there at the same time, then you can somehow associate them. But maybe raw food diet affects more the hormones and the neurotransmitters which may affect your perception of things, which in turn may be associated with something else and so and so.

The very foundation of the live food movement was religious:

Quote

The Essene Gospel of Peace by Jesus Christ.

[www.essene.com]

For I tell you truly, live only by the fire of life, and prepare not your foods with the fire of death, which kills your foods, your bodies and your souls also.

And the fire of death?" asked others.

"It is the fire which blazes outside your body, which is hotter than your blood. With that fire of death you cook your foods in your homes and in your fields. I tell you truly, it is the same fire which destroys your foods and your bodies, even as the fire of malice, which ravages your thoughts, ravages your spirits. For your body is that which you eat, and your spirit is that which you think. Eat nothing, therefore, which a stronger fire than the fire of life has killed. Wherefore, prepare and eat all fruits of trees, and all grasses of the fields, and all milk of beasts good for eating. For all these are fed and ripened by the fire of life; all are the gift of the angels of our Earthly Mother. But eat nothing to which only the fire of death gives savor, for such is of Satan.

And Jesus answered: "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in th e sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?

And the seminal book, Survival Into the 21st Century by Viktoras Kulvinkas was chock full of religious spiritual stuff. It's a part of holistic health, the health of the soul.

Clank, it's been my experience that most of the raw fooders I have seen on Youtube, etc. have been "spiritual" in the New Age-y sense, rather than Christians. I am always pleasantly surprised when Christians adopt this sort of diet (or at least a vegan one). The Malkumuses are a case in point. I have one of their books which I really like: [www.amazon.com]

Brome, great post. Thanks for that. It's amazing how powerful mythologies can be to people. I wish there was a way to convince more of the population they don't need a story to be free, and for them to see the logic of nature.

Many references in Google say that the Essene gospel of peace is a modern hoax. Search and you should find

When eating raw lasagna, rarely can I stop myself from shouting with my mouth full, "OH MY GOD, IT'S SO DELICIOUS!!!" It's totally uncontrollable.

I think there's a point in mental clarity when pattern recognition becomes obvious. We are mathematical, fractal beings. The geometric beauty of raw fruits and veggies is quite obvious, sometimes even astounding (case in point: coco de mer [www.google.ca]). Eating something "alive," full of amazing fractal geometry, born from wild nature, and taking it into YOUR being--then having the resultant uplifting, clarifying experience that draws us all here, something that many people call the experience of "optimal health"...

Call it God, the Universe, the Earth, Energy, whatever. There is something here. Something is happening. Every time we eat it and make it part of us, we participate. And also, consider the knock-on effects of the diet and what it does for the Earth... some image is starting to emerge like we really just might live in a perfectly looped system that recycles itself in beauty through infinity.

I don't need a book to tell me that, I don't need a guru. I need an apple, some sunshine, and the moment.

When people feel that moment of resonance, I think most default to whichever religious vocabulary is most familiar. The shortcomings of organized religion do NOTHING to refute the timeless truth of that ineffable resonance. Whatever it is, I don't quite know, other than that I like it.

My thoughts.

And when you say, "others bless me with this god," lots of other people have blessed me, too. I take what is important from it... IMHO, the core of most religious utterances is the acknowledgment of the incredible (divine, mathematic, or both) nature within. Whatever power has twisted that double helix in your cells, perhaps a bit of physics, a bit of god, a bit of both? We can argue about what it is, but we can't argue that it does not exist... the harmony of its existence is what floors us.

So, whenever I am blessed in whatever form, I take it as quite the compliment, for someone having noticed the very ancient and incredible power I wield inside. I am the end result of an unbroken lineage, after all (I think I heard Alex Grey make that point in a talk once?). Raw food is packed with that power and I think it is a platform for unleashing that perfect program within us. The symmetry is visible. The golden mean, fibonacci, it's all there. Why not eat some while you're at it? >8)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2012 08:29AM by phantom.

Yes, there is a spirituality connected with food, in a sense. The cleaner our bodies the clearer our perception of what's on the outside of us. We only know of the external by means of our senses...sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste. These senses are heightened as we become more clean, and our senses are sharpened.

For example, the image we SEE when we open our eyes, is formed from within out brain. It's beautiful to understand such things, like to acknowledge and accept that the universe is never-ending. Some people cannot fathom that, since they are so used to limitations from within their life.

At one stage, I too couldn't fathom or get my head around that fact. I couldn't comprehend something without end. Then one day I could, without any conscious learning, bar life experience, but I could understant it, and my consciousness grew as a consequence.

Therefore, spirituality is definately tied to us, mentally and physically IMO.

Cheers, jalan x

clank72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brome, great post. Thanks for that. It's amazing
> how powerful mythologies can be to people. I wish
> there was a way to convince more of the population
> they don't need a story to be free, and for them
> to see the logic of nature.

Most religions teach that God is truth and truth is God...in other words that the word "God" is simply a synonym for "truth" (even if they disagree heartily on the details of what that truth is). That being said:
-Do you deny that true stories/logic can free people?
-Do you deny that truth transcends your existence on earth?
-Do you deny that truth existed before you and will continue to exist after you?
-Do you deny that you've benefited (aka been "blessed" ) from truth?
-Do you deny ever being familiar with the truth?
-Do you deny ever being comforted by the truth?
-Finally, do you deny that there is truth to the wisdom of eating raw?

If you don't deny these things then, by definition, you also believe that:
-Stories of God can free people.
-God transcends your existence on earth.
-God existed before you and will continue to exist after you.
-God has blessed you.
-God is familiar to you.
-God has comforted you.
-And God is the reason to eat raw.

So one man's "logic" is another's "mythology" and vice versa...just depends on which truths you know and the terminology you use to describe them. So the only difference between you and religious folks is language/vocabulary; That is assuming you aspire to know truth and obey its laws...if you aspire to be ignorant and suffer the consequences of being wrong all the time then I feel bad for you, but does anyone really have such aspirations? Even "ignorance is bliss" is an adage you'd have to know was true in order to effectively put it into practice (otherwise the bliss would have to just come randomly...in which case you'd just as well take Pascal's Wager and strive to know truth).

Don't let the talk of prayer, faith, etc confuse you...they just relate to kinds of truths that, like nutrition, our society doesn't value as much as it used to (ie ones which can't be detected by an outside observer). But detectable or not are there not still truths about philosophy, about emotion, about morality? For example, isn't it true that the truth of logic still existed before we knew it even though it's not an observable/experimental fact? Also isn't it true that empirical observation can never tell us, for example, whether it's desirable to live or die because "desire" is not an observable fact even though it can still be true?

That's my take, does it make sense to you?



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 04:58AM by ExperimentsWithTruth.

ExperimentsWithTruth,

I see what you did there, with the ol' "If A then B" manuever

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ExperimentsWithTruth,
>
> I see what you did there, with the ol' "If A then
> B" manuever

Well I did that because it's easy to connect logical truths to each other; empirical/scientific truths are a bit harder; emotional truths harder still; moral truths are extremely hard; and drawing connections among these distinct classes of truth is a nightmare.

So I did that to show that, even in the easy case, reference to a transcendent higher power (ie a "God" ) shouldn't be "odd" to most educated people (because "God" is, at the very least, simply logical truth) nor is it something that people should be "convinced they don't need". It just is what it is:
"Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh"



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 03:41PM by ExperimentsWithTruth.

I don't believe in a G_d in the traditional sense but there is no denying an energetic connection with the Universe and everything in it. We are the very breath that others breathe, everything we are is eternally present, has always been, will always be. Each cell, every element, immortal.
What does it mean? To me? Nothing. I am here, I eat, I love, I live, I end. Some questions don't have answers, I don't plague myself with them. I'm happy and more than satisfied just to simply be, no explanation required .

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe in a G_d in the traditional sense
> but there is no denying an energetic connection
> with the Universe and everything in it. We are the
> very breath that others breathe, everything we are
> is eternally present, has always been, will always
> be. Each cell, every element, immortal.
> What does it mean? To me? Nothing. I am here, I
> eat, I love, I live, I end. Some questions don't
> have answers, I don't plague myself with them. I'm
> happy and more than satisfied just to simply be,
> no explanation required .

Do you work? Do you make decisions and take action? Did the computer you're posting with just fall out of the sky and plant itself in front of you while you were "simply being" or do you "plague" yourself with using the connections of the universe to maintain your lifestyle of "eating, loving, and living"?

I don't want to get into any religious arguments, but I also think it's true that it is good to want to better oneself, mankind, the earth, etc...and even if it's not true then I would rather die trying to make it so than be satisfied being in universe without the goodness of betterment.

Of course no one will ever put a gun to your head and "require" you to offer an explanation, but if we agree that the universe is connected then why wouldn't you use the vehicle of explanation to know and use those connections?
Even ascetic monks that go off into the forest and starve to death as they "simply be" find explanations helpful (whether it be their own personal understandings or understandings learned from others). So although they're not "required", explanations (ie descriptions of truths) are too useful to pass up IMO.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 05:33PM by ExperimentsWithTruth.

And that's exactly the sort of aggressive posturing one encounters from "the religious" more often than not. LOL, where do I sign up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 05:37PM by coco.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And that's exactly the sort of aggressive
> posturing one encounters from "the religious" more
> often than not. LOL, where do I sign up?


Versus your passive aggressive posturing? Honestly (truly honestly) I don't even understand what you're saying here except that you're trying to project a negative tone. Are you saying that aspirations of betterment and compelling arguments are bad? If you would be more direct then I might understand and learn something, but instead you only seem to want to vaguely disparage my "aggressive posturing".

Is it what I have to say or is it simply my personality that's conflicting with your "simply being"? Because if you're "just being" then what does it matter what kind of posture I have? I'm not trying to get you to "sign up" for anything if that's what you think (what would be the point of that?)...I'm just exposing my mind to you in the hopes you'll convince me of my errors (whatever they may be) or else me convince you of yours. If that's offensive then I'm sorry, but I have no choice because until I know I'm in error I have no way of knowing it's offensive.

The OP simply asked for "our take" and that's all I am interested in offering. I have zero vested in convincing or being convinced. This approach of assuming or seeking to correct "error" in each other based on a differing of opinion holds no appeal to me whatsoever... no thanks.

Christianity is a beautiful religion. Institutions like the media and education have really done a thorough job of demonizing it in the minds of many people. Not all Christians are the Westboro Baptist Church. Very few are. I just wish that I could get my ass out of bed on Sunday morning and go enjoy some spiritual community.

The powers that be are immensely afraid of people building community around goodness. Huge amounts of white Christians spoke out against slavery. In the early 1900s, Methodism was the largest church in America by far. Its tenets were clearly anti-slavery and they acted on it. That's why the first organized black church in America is called the African-Methodist-Episcopal Church. At some point, the Methodists were threatened into a public anti-slavery stance, but they still worked to free slaves in a covert way. During WW1 a lot of American ministers were imprisoned for speaking out against the war. They spoke out against it because the real Christianity is obviously in opposition to war. A heavy propaganda campaign has been waged against Christians ever since. The list of Christians who have done truly good deeds in this country and been persecuted for them is virtually endless, but you don't know about them because you might get inspired to do something like oppose the psychopaths who enslave us. That enslavement starts with the elimination of our spirituality and the communities we build around it.

Just focus on Jesus. Not the guy on the cross but instead the guy doing good and being loving. The obsession with the cross just turns him into a scary and falsely negative icon. That's how they want it. They want him mired in darkness and terror instead of the love and light that he was. We don't have to suffer massive pain and indignity to be truly loving.

P.S. Spirituality precedes diet, not vice-versa. Get right on the inside (spiritually) and external influences like diet will follow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 06:52PM by HH.

do you know the song amazing grace, and how one of the lyrics says "i once was lost but know im found" and another of the lyrics says "that saved a wretch like me"....well i never could get with that song until i put raw food in the context space where amazing grace is in the singing part... pause and sing it and replace amazing grace with raw foods and the song hits amighty chord in those who have truly been down the path of 100% raw unequevocal.... i say this because i am a 46 year old/young man who has huuvvered around 90-95% raw for the last 7 years, but was TOT RAW for about 7 and this morning i awoke with a stiff neck from a moving job in which i am a worker....alll that to say this for the past 2 weeks i have been going at it like a God of moving... lifting incredible stuff for my size(160p 5'8) but on this day i ate something coooooked and... when i did some SUPERMAN STUFF i ussualy do i spraigned the back of my neck.....in the bible it talks about being a stiifff necked fool....habits are "so called hard to break" but if NOT broken then the god of yourself can never fully be released and you will.. i willl always look for an external savior instead of releasing god from the dirty bowels of cooked food pain/decadent pleasure... when ive eaten raw 100% there is nothing that i have not been able to do do that ive asked of my temple.........................100% truth..RAWfood..GOD..your verry verry verry best are all the same to me...to a certain degree i am athiest becuase i dont believe some god is going to save you YOU have to get knowledge apply the knowledge and then be true to HER(NATURE)... GOD... RAW>>>THE BEST YOUR VERRRRY BEST...100%

Right on.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The OP simply asked for "our take" and that's all
> I am interested in offering. I have zero vested in
> convincing or being convinced. This approach of
> assuming or seeking to correct "error" in each
> other based on a differing of opinion holds no
> appeal to me whatsoever... no thanks.


Fair enough and thanks for taking the time to explain.

Cheers!

That still doesn't explain Durianrider. Plenty raw and plenty a-spiritual is he.

Anyhoo, maybe your diet has simply weakened your body to the point where it can't adapt to an anomaly like a little cooked food. Adaptation forms the basis of human survival. Plenty of people eat nothing but cooked food and perform herculean physical tasks all day long with no injury.

Along with adaptation, science and rational thought are useful too. So is literacy:

"I eat cooked food here and there. Oh look. I can form a legible, grammatically correct sentence. That must be because I eat cooked food. That guy must not be able to write because he only eats raw."

Does that line of logic make sense to you? I hope not. Unfortunately, it's the same type of thinking that you're using.

firehorse2012 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do you know the song amazing grace, and how one of
> the lyrics says "i once was lost but know im
> found" and another of the lyrics says "that saved
> a wretch like me"....well i never could get with
> that song until i put raw food in the context
> space where amazing grace is in the singing
> part... pause and sing it and replace amazing
> grace with raw foods and the song hits amighty
> chord in those who have truly been down the path
> of 100% raw unequevocal.... i say this because i
> am a 46 year old/young man who has huuvvered
> around 90-95% raw for the last 7 years, but was
> TOT RAW for about 7 and this morning i awoke with
> a stiff neck from a moving job in which i am a
> worker....alll that to say this for the past 2
> weeks i have been going at it like a God of
> moving... lifting incredible stuff for my
> size(160p 5'8) but on this day i ate something
> coooooked and... when i did some SUPERMAN STUFF i
> ussualy do i spraigned the back of my neck.....in
> the bible it talks about being a stiifff necked
> fool....habits are "so called hard to break" but
> if NOT broken then the god of yourself can never
> fully be released and you will.. i willl always
> look for an external savior instead of releasing
> god from the dirty bowels of cooked food
> pain/decadent pleasure... when ive eaten raw 100%
> there is nothing that i have not been able to do
> do that ive asked of my
> temple.........................100%
> truth..RAWfood..GOD..your verry verry verry best
> are all the same to me...to a certain degree i am
> athiest becuase i dont believe some god is going
> to save you YOU have to get knowledge apply the
> knowledge and then be true to HER(NATURE)...
> GOD... RAW>>>THE BEST YOUR VERRRRY BEST...100%