Ya know I knew the torture of animals was bad... I didn't know it was this bad... I tried to watch it... couldn't make it through... I am now so angry my heart hurts... I don't understand... and I think for awhile people are going to wonder why i am glaring at them for eating their tortured meals... I know not everyone knows just how bad it is... but Damn!!!!! they should know... everyone should know!!!

I'm stunned... the cruelty is beyond... well anything!!!!

I have to go do something now to calm myself down... maybe a support group or something!!!

luv laugh and dream

I know what you mean luvyuu. I've been exposed to similar footage & it was too much to bear. The decision to eat animals is to support cruelty & suffering on the most frightening level. The reality is well hidden from the public but the truth keeps peeking through - with the help of many brave + compassionate souls.

The thing that bothers me is those that "know" how their food is made, but shy away from really knowing how their food is made. As you say, luvyuu, they know it's bad but don't know exactly how bad it is, and don't want to know.

I mean, if you are going to support this kind of evil, at least do it with integrity--admit to yourself that your existence requires the commission of daily crimes against The Creator--and then take stock of what that means about who you really are.

What is done to these animals is abominable, but it's the moral cowardice of the humans that abet it that I can't stand . . .

Ok I think I have calmed down a little......

I just wonder how these people live with themselves doing these jobs day after day I can't imagine how they must really feal inside...

I feel like I want to do something to help people be more aware of this torture but what? People get very defensive about it if they even hear what I'm saying. How do you bring TRUE awareness to this gruesome subject?

I spoke to my Mom and her boyfriend this morning and He just went on about how a certain kind of meat is bred in order to create this great flavor... and she just kept saying I don't want to know... Stop it Go away...

That's how they get away with this... cause no one wants to know... and when you don't want to know you don't go looking so these people go mad and turn into these crazy killing machines with no feelins what so ever...

And I've never been the one to say ok EVERYONE in the world should be vegetarian But these living breathing beings are offering their lives to you so you can live ... can't they atleast treat them with some idea of respect? But not even the tiniest amount...

ok maybe i haven't calmed down so much... and i know i'm probably preachin to the choir but what do you do?

luv laugh and dream

luvyuu,

How about asking,

a.) "Does the fact that animals are bred for your food require that they be tortured, Yes or No?"
a.2) "If No, then what can you do to remove yourself from this system?"

b.) "Why do you not want to know the truth about these things?"

If asked gently and respectfully, perhaps this can start a dialogue of some kind. In my case, I have managed through these queries to get people to buy more humane dairy and eggs, at least. Baby steps to Victory.


I have figured out that one of the main reasons why meatists are so touchy about vegetarianism and especially veganism is because, on some level, they envy our self-awareness. The meat eaters I know are aware that they are lying to themselves about something very important, but that I am not. It's sad, sad.

Now substitute "The Unborn" for "Animals" and tell me how you 'feel'.

[endoftheamericandream.com]

I assume no-one on this board is Pro-Abortion.

Hypocrisy.

KidRaw,

Please stop threadjacking. I'm sure you know that there are plenty of sites where you can speak about these things freely. Please don't contaminate this and other discussions with that stuff. Thanks.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidRaw,
>
> Please stop threadjacking. I'm sure you know that
> there are plenty of sites where you can speak
> about these things freely. Please don't
> contaminate this and other discussions with that
> stuff. Thanks.


Oh, you must mean like happened in this thread.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

veganjuice,

I once again explain that my response in that thread was not threadjacking, as it pertained directly to the query in the OP because, considering the nature of these boards, there was no reason for me or anyone else to assume that a response touching on the environmental aspects of manufacturing would be deemed, not just irrelevant, but personally offensive.

That you persist in not discerning the distinction between what trolling is--interpolating something irrelevant into a thread to provoke, insult, derail--and attempting to give a comprehensive but relevant response, is troubling.

Even more troubling is the fact that you are dredging up such an old thread by way of analogy, indicating that you are still "carrying it around with you." I am sorry if you were that bothered by my response to you at that thread, but isn't it time to let it go? It bears no relation to what is happening here.

Presently, you, and I by proxy, are contributing to the threadjacking of this thread, now, instead of participating in the original discussion in good faith. And I don't want to abet it further.

Sorry, luvyuu! Hope things get back on track here

How is our Outrage at Killing Animals NOT related to our Outrage at Killing Babies?

@KidRaw, Animal rights activists DO perform abortions on dogs and cats due to the overpopulation crisis. There is no hypocrisy there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 10:03PM by RawPlease.

RawPlease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @KidRaw, Animal rights activists DO perform
> abortions on dogs and cats due to the
> overpopulation crisis. There is no hypocrisy
> there.


Oh for crying out loud - that's ridiculous. I suppose an animal should be permitted to mate to their heart's content so we can be knee deep in their offspring.

And if I read you correctly, an animal is equal to a human? Very interesting point of view you have there. Which institute of higher learning did you pick that up from?

RawPlease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @KidRaw, Animal rights activists DO perform
> abortions on dogs and cats due to the
> overpopulation crisis.

Wow, that's amazing to me! I knew dogs and cats were 'fixed', but I never dreamed that abortions were done on them. That's outrageous if you're against the suffering of animals.

I can't get over it. Not to mention performing abortions on animals probably costs a fortune....

**********

(Edit) And what do you mean - "there is no hypocrisy there"? That's the height of hypocrisy - If an animal rights activist believes in the humane treatment of animals, and yet condones inflicting pain and suffering on a pregnant mother animal by performing an abortion on her, and also condones inflicting pain and who-knows-what emotional/spiritual suffering on an unborn baby animal by killing it in the womb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 10:58PM by KidRaw.

Yeah... why spend the money on animal abortion when they can just put them in a gas chamber for much cheaper like they do with thousands of other strays where it can take them up to... I think it was 30-40 minutes to suffer before they die!!!!!!!

Back in 2002 I attended vegetarian summer fest in Ashville NC. They showed for the first time a Movie about Eddy by tribe of heart. Many were crying by it's end and few if any could move afterward. Between then and now I have given people that video plus "eating the rave diet", John Robins diet for a new america and Mike Kleppers a diet for all reasons to watch. The response has been a shocking zero. I don't understand this all out stone wall it insensitivity.

One of the most barbaric things for me is women eating animals. You would expect them to be more sensitive.

The most haunting sound I have ever heard was of those cows in the slaughter house. Every time I see those cattle trucks go down the highway I wish I could stop them.

But the nation wide drought is raising corn prices. Maybe that will make eating animals too expensive. But that doesn't change the nature of those eating them.

The abortions are done on cats and dogs when they're spayed. If they're pregant, they get abortions. This is very early in the pregnancy and at the same time when they undergo the spaying.

Let's be clear, @KidRaw. In humans the fetus doesn't feel pain until 12 weeks. If animals didn't feel pain, then there would be no animal rights movement. You're using the term 'hypocrisy' incorrectly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 04:08PM by RawPlease.

Back to eden wrote-The most haunting sound I have ever heard was of those cows in the slaughter house. Every time I see those cattle trucks go down the highway I wish I could stop them.

I feel the same way, I was in Neddles Ca. 3days ago and the temp was 107.
And a cattle truck sitting at a truck stop full of suffering.

What befalls the beast befalls the son of man. We all must keep checking for life between our toes

Yeah and I just read that there are few laws that govern how the factory farm animals should be treated...

one of them was for the transport of them ... there is a 28hour law... which means the drivers have to stop every 28 hours and let the animals out of the truck... TWENTY EIGHT HOURS... and most truckers don't do it... say there going somewhere that's only 30-32 hours they figure it's ok... It really isn't ok!!!

I think transportaion of the animals should be illegal... Factory Farming should be illegal!!!

Ya know it's no wonder people are so sick... they are eating animals that are sick... it can't be good!

luv laugh and dream

this is exactly the things i've been thinking of lately, on how to talk to people about animal animal suffering, unneccessary death and our domination over them. you guys are strong to be able to watch earthlings. i have not yet. i see short clips of slaughterhouse footage and cry.

tam, humane meat and animal products are a marketing tool of the industry. they charge a higher price, and people feel better about eating animals and their products. the only group that benefit are the ones that make money from killing animals, never the animals.

they may have a better existance before sent to slaughter (maybe! i'm not so sure though and still researching this, some indicate the better life is very marginal). but either way, they are still killed. every single one of them still faces a terrifying death at a fraction of their natural lifespan, including all dairy cows, all egg laying hans. they are still confined and enslaved and killed. since when is murder humane? and not to forget by products of dairy cows are veal calves, and by product of egg production are male chicks that are killed (usually by grinding alive or just throwing in the garbage to suffocate). what i'm saying is an industry that uses animals and their products will not be humane. it can't be.

i think talking to people about this is so important, but say it like it is (as carefully as we can of course, i know it isn't easy, i'm still figuring it out)...but what i won't do is promote better slavery conditions. people need to know the truth of what we are doing. they can handle it. they need to know what consuming animals is without making into something okay. we pretend it isn't what it is and that's what humane marketing is tapping into.

they can still make small steps to changing, it doesn't have to be right away. and even if they don't, at least they are being told the truth not some insane lie about happy slavery.

adrian,

I know, I know, and I have opted out of this sytem as a vegetarian, but my family and loved ones, who are aware of these things to varying degrees, won't, for one reason or another, take that last step to a plant based diet. I don't live on my own planet--alas!--and must consider other people's needs with regard to meals on rare occasions. So, I try to source animal products from farmers I have met and whose relatively humane practices I have confirmed, for those occasions when I must serve animals products, such as holidays. For example, my family, who are otherwise wonderful people, aren't gonna put up with Tofurkey at Thanksgiving, though they will happily eat vegetarian or vegan the days preceding Thanskgiving. Thus, since turkey is unavoidable, it is my duty to find a turkey farm that treats its birds humanely and ends their lives as painlessly as possible. My loved ones, to their credit, know that if there wasn't such an alternative and all that was available was "torture" meat, they'd be eating nut and lentil loaf and would have to make the best of it!

i can understand that tam and what you are doing for them is the best in the situation that you have. actually your family is doing better than mine. my sister comes here to visit and eats chicken fingers in front of me (and of the factory farm variety) and i feel sick.

so i understand what you are saying. the way most people see animals, many aren't willing to stop eating them. i'm sure you're presence in your family is having a good effect. it's crazy isn't it, it's almost as if humane farming is a detriment to freeing them because people feel better killing them. it's not your family, i don't blame them or my family. it's the ideology of our culture.

well, we all take our own responsibility of course, but these are things so deeply taught and accepted, some just can't see through it. i guess that's part of the challenge in change, and i don't even know where to begin. i know too, that probably in many instances people just can't see what we see.

i reread my last post and sorry if i sounded so harsh. it wasn't you, it's general outrage at how extensive the suffering is, and so much senseless, needless death. makes me crazy, the thought of these innocent animals drives me out of my mind.

anyway, i understand your situation. that people are told the whole story is all we can do. and hope one day this all changes.

adrian,

It's OK--I didn't take it badly! I realize how lucky I am that my brother and his wife, my closest rellies, will actually request vegetarian food for their average meal while visiting--"No, just give us what you'll eat!" They know it will make them feel vibrant and restored after a long plane ride or car trip, and in an otherwise hectic holiday schedule. I suspect that they would happily eat all vegan for Thanksgiving, but there are red blooded meat eaters present for the event also, and I don't want to experiment with our goodwill towards one another on that day!

I do the grocery shopping monthly for a dear friend of my family, a close friend of my mother who is unable to do large-scale shopping for herself. She does not know, because it would hurt her without having the consequent effect of making her change her buying habits, to know that I say a silent prayer of contrition to the Creator whenever I put her torture beef or torture hot dogs or torture poultry into the cart. It is a huge violation of my principles to buy that stuff, but it would be a more huge violation of my principles to denounce her as a murderer's accomplice. I buy her humanely farmed eggs, and she agrees with this. It's just, beyond that point I can make no headway; she's been eating commercially raised and grown crap for decades, and her strong sense of injustice does not extend beyond, say, endangered wolf habitat. Pointing out to her that this problem is partly caused by the farming of the beef that she wants me to buy for her does not spark an epiphany. I bought her groceries a few days ago, and when I was heading out the door afterward, she mentioned how she's gone off pork products. I told her that the hogs thank her, because what they go through at the end of their lives, Good Lord! The enormity of it seemed to distress her, and she was quiet for a moment. But, will her sorrow about pigs extend to the steer and chickens on her next shopping list? I doubt it. People are funny that, way. Their ability to compartmentalize, I mean.

After having people bring animals to eat here I am seriously considering making my place a no animal eating zone. If they want to do that then it has to be done outside in the woods. I can't stand the smell,look or vibes of that stuff!

back2eden,

Curious as to how you will broach this subject with your meat-eating friends . . . it can be very tricky

I hope it goes well, and everyone ends up with a better understanding of one another.

It's not tricky for me just tell it like it is regardless of cost. Let them decide if they want to come here or not. Find those that are like minded.