No strawman, and no deception at all. Just some facts and asking your opinion of what I consider a fair comparison of important rights. Everyone has their priorities.

Thanks for answering. I find your reply... puzzling.

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to wonder why there was silence when
> several republican governors tried to
> systematically take away peoples voting rights
> last year. It was so bad the supreme court had to
> step in to stop it in a couple of states.


To comment on this statement, I'd like to know specifically which governors you're referring to and what they were trying to do, etc. If you have a link to how they 'tried to systematically take away peoples voting rights', I'd appreciate it.

I do recall the State Legislature of PA had implemented Voter ID into law and just before the election the Pennsylvania Supreme Court Conveniently stepped in and said it was too close to the election for the law to take effect, and then the commonwealth court put the kibash on it for the 2012 election, but it's upheld for the next election.

[blog.heritage.org]

[www.foxnews.com]

I should have said republican legislatures, not governors. sorry.

I don't like to copy and paste, but I don't have much time for fun today...but here are a few instances:

[www.cnn.com]

Voter ID laws, however, are just one arm of a systemic attempt to curb the participation of certain voters. In some of these same states, including Alabama, Kansas, Tennessee and Florida, legislatures have also passed laws that demand proof of citizenship to register to vote (a tough deal if you don't happen to walk around with a birth certificate, passport or naturalization records in your pocket) or that reduce early voting.
This includes the elimination of the Sunday before Election Day when many black churches hold successful "Take Your Souls to the Polls" campaigns encouraging their congregants to vote. Still more brazen tactics, as seen in campaigns mounted in Colorado, Florida and New Mexico, would summarily purge thousands of registered voters, whom state officials suspect might not be citizens, from the voter rolls.

[www.huffingtonpost.com]

On May 19th, Governor Rick Scott signed into law HB 1355, a bill attacking the most fundamental right of our democracy: the right to vote. Take for instance the teacher that organized a voter registration drive for students at New Smyrna Beach High School. She received a warning letter from the State informing her that her registration drive was in violation of Governor Scott's new law, and that she was potentially facing thousands of dollars in fines. All she was trying to do was register her high school students to vote, the same as teachers across the state often do, yet she wound up caught in these new restrictive requirements. These are the kinds of real people who suffer the consequences when bad laws are drafted to address problems that do not exist.

Once again one of our discussions comes down to where we go to get informed. You and I seek and learn from different types of news that come from completely different types of sources.

Those are all stories making accusations. Please show me the articles where they proved actual facts and took them to court. Such grievances, if true would need to be answered.

I posted real news about real people like you who's right to vote was effected by changes in the laws that specifically targets areas that historically voted democratic. If they were in historically republican areas, I"m certain you would have read a whole lot about it from your news sources.

It should not matter who you wanted to win in any contest. In my opinion, these vote changes and attempts at changes are THE REAL attack on the constitution that is occurring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2013 03:07PM by swimmer.

KidRaw,

To be more specific: Note that both the U.S. news and USA Today articles were opinion editorials.

Patriot Update and Right Wing news are very one sided in anything their bloggers and columnists write.

Check out Bev Harris and [www.blackboxvoting.org]

Thanks John,

I'd call that a really bad idea that will get nowhere.

Yea VA!

Virginia Voter ID Bills Would Tighten Strict Voting Laws

[www.huffingtonpost.com]

"The legislation ...restricts the list of acceptable identification documents voters can bring to the polls on Election Day. Not set to take effect until 2014, the bills would make it harder for those without a driver's license, student ID or concealed handgun permit to vote. The House bill eliminates "a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, or paycheck that shows the name and address of the voter and a voter's social security card" as acceptable forms of identification."

So if you don't drive, don't go to school, or don't CARRY a gun, you get a hard time when you vote.

And you cheer this?

I guess they really don't like the elderly in VA.




Edit to fix some facts...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 01:53AM by swimmer.

A law like this take the rights away from two specific groups more than others.

The elderly and the poor.

It doesn't effect you, and you cheer.

But what do you do when the government simply tries to REGULATE gun rights? That does effect you.

Interesting...

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if you don't drive, don't go to school, or
> don't CARRY a gun, you get a hard time when you
> vote.

All you need is the Virginia Voter Registration Card they send you and you can vote.

The chances of anyone not having a photo ID are slim to none because you need a photo ID for all these things --

[www.nyc.gov]

Get a Job
Your employers will need you to show proof of identity before you start working

Cash a Check
You need a photo ID to cash a personal or payroll check.

Open a Bank Account
Most banks ask for your Social Security number and a government-issued ID.

Get an Apartment
A photo ID is required to sign a lease.

Apply for College
Colleges ask for Social Security numbers, and may ask for photo ID.

Travel on an Airplane
Adult passengers have to show government-issued ID to board a flight.

Receive Public Benefits such as Health Insurance
To be eligible for some public benefits you need to prove your identity, age and residence.

Enter Government Buildings for Meetings and Appointments
You need photo ID to enter some government facilities.

Get a Library Card
You need to prove your identity and your residence to get a library card.

Get Discounts at Museums and Theme Parks
If you can prove that you’re under a certain age, you can get deals on museum and theme park admissions.

Get a Gym Membership
Some gyms require official photo ID to sign up to be a member.

Also -

Buy alcohol
Buy cigarettes
Apply for welfare
Apply for food stamps
Make any large credit card purchase
Open a bank account
Rent an apartment
Be admitted to a hospital
Get a marriage license

***************

1. Boarding an airplane
2. Writing a check
3. Cashing a check
4. Using a credit card
5. Driving a motor vehicle
6. Applying for a business license
7. Applying for permission to hold a protest or rally
8. Securing employment
9. Purchasing a house or real estate
10. Renting a domicile
11. Renting a motor vehicle
12. Purchasing a firearm (Includes BB guns)
13. Applying for a hunting license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
14. Applying for a fishing license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
15. Purchasing alcoholic beverages
16. Purchasing tobacco or products that contain nicotine
17. Purchasing a motor vehicle
18. Initial registration of a motor vehicle
19. Applying for a building permit
20. Receiving prescription medicine
21. Purchasing OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine
22. Serving on jury duty
23. Getting a bank account
24. Cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater
25. Sales tax exemption for people aged 80 and above

************

Another list of where you need a photo ID, and some are redundant -

Grocery stores ( if you are using Credit Card )
Gas stations (when you are buying anything using Credit card)
Liquor store.( Even if you do not buy and accompany with others)
Dance Clubs and Bars
Mail pick up from FedEx, UPS or any others
Public Library (for getting library Card )
Casino (even if you do not play)
Banks ( if you want to withdraw money or check balance)
Airport
Any stores where you buy using Credit Card.
Fast Food places (if you use credit card)
Restaurants (if you use credit card)
Any corporate offices ( if you are visiting anyone, for Visitor ID)
Coffee shops ( if you use credit card)
Renting anything for outdoor Jet Skis, Boats, Canoe, etc
Car Rentals ( You need Driver’s license for sure)
Any theme parks like Disney, etc for rentals
Any outdoor activity like Sky diving, Bunge Jumping, etc

Any place where you use a Credit card, you will be asked for your picture ID.

Return an item to a retail store

But you get the picture --

It's almost impossible to function in the US today without a photo ID, so the chances of anybody not having one is almost zero. That article who found a 98 year old woman must have looked high and low to find her.

Me Thinks the Dems Doth Protest Too Much

(about how horrible it is to require ID to vote)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 04:30AM by KidRaw.

And if you are elderly, under the care of others?

My mother would not be able to vote in VA. since we, (her grown kids) do all those things for her.

Well, I will concede that a very elderly person might not have a photo ID, but they can get one easily or just show their Voter identification card that was sent to them. Not unreasonable. I don't go for the bogus claim that any 'minorities' wouldn't have a Photo ID - unless it's the illegal aliens

[minnesota.publicradio.org]

" "It's not a difficult thing to get identification," said Dan McGrath, chairman of the pro-amendment campaign organization Protect My Vote.

McGrath said the proposed requirement should not prevent someone from getting the identification needed to vote, adding that senior citizens can already get a state-issued ID without documentation, although it's a process that currently requires a fee.

"Senior citizens that do not have a birth certificate for one reason or another, or [who] would have an extraordinary difficulty obtaining a birth certificate, can still get identification using that one-page form that's in current law," he said."

Thank you...but

That is not VA, so this IS happening in more than one state!


In Minnesota, they admit they knew that the new law just made it hard on the elderly to vote, and it will cost. Shameful is the first thought that comes to mind. I doubt this will stand up to a legal fight is the second.

You do see the problem with your argument here, don't you?

These laws in multiple states that you said dems complain too much about ARE taking peoples rights away at this moment! This is real, there is no question about it. Effected by it or not, everyone should be wary of this open assault on peoples constitutional right to vote in an unencumbered fashion.

The PROPOSED laws that you spent an entire thread complaining about MIGHT EFFECT your rights IF they are enacted.

Don't you see the difference?

(I'm enjoying this debate, hope you are too kidraw)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2013 08:44PM by swimmer.

Well, no - I think I just said that the minorities are not affected, and if anyone is - it's a very few very elderly, who can either use their Voter Registration Card that they get in the mail or can easily apply for a Photo ID, like the article said --

"senior citizens can already get a state-issued ID without documentation, although it's a process that currently requires a fee.

"Senior citizens that do not have a birth certificate for one reason or another, or [who] would have an extraordinary difficulty obtaining a birth certificate, can still get identification using that one-page form that's in current law,"

So compared to the very few who have to get a Photo ID - to ensure Fair Elections and No Voter Fraud, mandatory Voter ID is the way to go.

So I disagree with this statement of yours -

Quote

These laws in multiple states that you said dems complain too much about ARE taking peoples rights away at this moment! This is real, there is no question about it.

I think almost everyone has a Photo ID already, and for the extremely few who don't, it's very easy to get one.


I enjoy debating with you, too, Swimmer, especially now that I can visualize you warming your feet up on your cat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2013 10:25PM by KidRaw.

Reviving this topic since I saw this good news for the great state of VA --

Virginians Want photo-ID law; McDonnell Weighs His Options

[watchdog.org]

Poll: Virginians Favor Photo ID Policy at the Polls

[hamptonroads.com]

Results of a new Quinnipiac University poll released Thursday indicate that voters favor a photo ID policy by a 3-1 margin statewide.

"Asked, "Do you think voters should or should not be required to show a photo identification before they are allowed to vote on Election Day in Virginia?" 75 percent of respondents said they should be required, compared with 23 percent who didn't agree.

Outside Virginia, "polls show similar high support levels for such requirements in a number of states in which the issue has been raised," "

***********

Also, I happen to run across more information that most Americans - 75% - are in favor of Voter Photo ID Laws -

Poll: Democrats and Republicans Support a Voter ID-Check Law - Peter Roff

[www.usnews.com]

"A new national telephone survey conducted by Rasmussen Reports finds that 75 percent of likely U.S. voters “believe voters should be required to show photo identification, such as a driver’s license, before being allowed to vote.” [Read RNC Chairman Reince Priebus: Anti Voter Fraud Reforms Are Practical, Not Partisan.]

The problem for Democrats, who almost universally oppose the idea and are trying to use it to inflame the passions of Hispanic and African-American voters, is that, to most Americans—as evidenced by the Rasmussen poll—the idea is just too reasonable to be ignored.

Look at the numbers: Rasmussen found 85 percent support for photo ID among Republicans, 77 percent support among non-affiliated voters, and even 63 percent support among Democrats. The poll also found, not surprisingly to anyone who understands the American electorate, “support for such a law is high across virtually all demographic groups.” "

Washington Post Poll: Nearly 75% of Americans Support Voter ID Laws

[www.theblaze.com]

"According to the graphs, 74% of respondents said voters “should be required” to show a valid form of identification, and 57% of the group said they felt “strongly” about the matter.

From there, the Washington Post tried to ascertain why people are in favor of voter ID laws.

“Do you think voter fraud (pause) that is, people voting who are not eligible to do so, or voters casting multiple ballots — is a major problem, a minor problem or not a problem in presidential elections?

A staggering 81% responded that voter fraud is a problem– 48% saying it is a “major” problem, and 33% saying it is a “minor” problem.

Just 14% of respondents said voter fraud is not a problem at the current time."

Poll: 70% Back Voter ID Laws

[www.politico.com]

It would seem that the only group who doesn't want Voter Photo ID Laws are those invested in voter fraud to win -

69% Say Photo ID Voting Laws Are Not Discriminatory - Rasmussen Reports™

[www.rasmussenreports.com]

The cry of the rapers - take away the guns so we can freely rape women.
The cry of the thiefs - take away the guns so we can freely steal more and more
The cry of the killers - take away the guns so we can freely kill at will
The cry of Iran, China and Russia - take away the guns to we can freely invade your country asap.
The cry of gun owners historicly who gave away thier guns, we were so stupid!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2013 12:20AM by back2eden.