Here are some of my favorite quotes on Resentment & Forgiveness...

“When you resent someone, a big part of you closes down. You become bitter and lose your ability to love. You also interact in a way that automatically creates opposition and resistance against yourself. Forgiveness is not for the other person, forgiveness is for you.” - Bill Ferguson

“Holding on to anger, resentment and hurt only gives you tense muscles, a headache and a sore jaw from clenching your teeth. Forgiveness gives you back the laughter and the lightness in your life.” -Joan Lunden

Resentments are like pissing on your own leg, you are the only one who feels it, and everyone else sees it.

"Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

"Hating people is like burning down your home to get rid of a rat." -Harry Emerson Fosdick

“Anger will never disappear so long as thoughts of resentment are cherished in the mind. Anger will disappear just as soon as thoughts of resentment are forgotten.” -Buddha

Peace and Love..........John

Food for thought, John.

I usually wait for an apology before I forgive someone.

"The first to apologize is the bravest. The first to forgive is the strongest. The first to forget is the happiest."

"To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it." -Confucius

How can you forgive someone who has not admitted that they have wronged you?

How can you forgive someone who has not expressed any remorse for attacking you?

How can you forgive someone who continues to attack you?

How can you forgive someone when the sentiment has changed and the perpetrator is now perceived as the victim because the real victim will not forgive the perpetrator, even thought the perpetrator has not admitted attacking the victim, has not expressed any remorse for attacking the victim and continues to attack the victim.

"Forgiveness is not for the other person, forgiveness is for you.”

Well, if I forgave someone who walked all over me, that would just empower them and others to continue - I'd be an enabler with no self-respect. I'd rather stand up for myself.

If it was a guy who was attacking you, would you just forgive them and walk away. But because you're a guy and they're girls, you want to let them off the hook and who cares about me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2013 07:16PM by KidRaw.

I feel that threads like this are focused towards weak-mined people. In other words, all these quotes are just "pretty-sounding" words, but the principles really never work out in the real world. Nice guys finish last - I see it time & time again.

I agree with Kidraw on her points.

Thanks, veganjuice, you're the best!

I'm not one to forgive that easily - I don't remember ever forgiving my dead mother for my horrible childhood yet. Of course, she never apologized, either...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2013 11:03PM by KidRaw.

It doesn't hurt the person the grudge is held against. The only person who suffers is the grudge holder. So who can they more rightfully be angry with, the person who did one thing to them that they resent or themselves for reliving that thing over and over and over again in their minds?

The only persons you should ever get even with are the ones that have helped you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2013 12:44AM by riverhousebill.

<<<The only persons you should ever get even with are the ones that have helped you>>>

rhb - that's the best one you've come up with so far!

<<<It doesn't hurt the person the grudge is held against. The only person who suffers is the grudge holder. So who can they more rightfully be angry with, the person who did one thing to them that they resent or themselves for reliving that thing over and over and over again in their minds?>>>

Exactly coco - that’s why "Forgiveness is not for the other person, forgiveness is for you.”

As a Wellness Consultant, I wear many hats and helping people deal with suppressed hurt is an issue I deal with quite frequently. What I find interesting is that many people get upset because some event or circumstance triggers a painful experience or a perceived painful experience where they relive or are reminded of those unresolved issues. Once again, this is why "Forgiveness is not for the other person, forgiveness is for you.”

One of my 29 related files on this subject is on a local man here in Houston who is a lawyer turned self-help expert and here is my summary from his file…

JR’s Summary of Bill Ferguson:

When you were born, you were pure love, but you were born into a world that suppresses this state. You then got hurt. You experienced rejection, invalidation and painful losses of love.

The presence or absence of this love seems to be a function of what happens around you, but it's not. It's a function of how you relate to what happens. In other words, the presence or absence of love is a function of you.

You have the ability to create a life that works for you instead of against you. You can have love in every relationship and in every aspect of your life. However, to do this, you need to grow in your awareness. You need to heal inside and you need to take some action.

Ultimately, the avoidance of this hurt is responsible for all your self-sabotaging behavior and all your suffering.

If you have an area of life where you suffer, you have a condition of unworkability. This condition may seem to be caused by your circumstances, but it's not.

Your circumstances are not the problem. They are just a symptom of something much deeper. The real problem is an underlying fear that forces you to interact in a way that creates your circumstances.

This fear produces a state of tunnel vision that destroys your ability to see clearly. All you can do is fight, resist, hang on or withdraw. This in turn destroys love and sabotages this area of your life.

Finding and healing this fear is the key to having life work. Until you do this, you will be forced to repeat the past and your condition of unworkability will continue.

When you are in a state of fear and upset, you destroy your ability to see what needs to be done. You close down and get tunnel vision. All you can do is to fight, resist, hang on, or withdraw. Almost any action you take in this state makes your situation worse.

You automatically fought the notion that you created and you fought all the hurt that came with it. From that moment on, the underlying focus of your life would be to avoid this hurt.

Unfortunately, you can't avoid it. As long as this suppressed hurt is in you, it's going to get triggered. The moment this happens, you feel threatened.

Instantly you become full of fear and upset. You close down and lose your ability to see clearly. You also get tunnel vision. You get tunnel vision because, subconsciously, the only thing that you are interested in is how to remove this threat.

It's this tunnel vision that sabotages your life.

When we get upset, it looks like the upset is caused by what happened, but this is an illusion. Upsets are not caused by what happens. Upsets are caused by fighting and resisting what happens.

The process for finding and healing this hurt is relatively simple and very non-confronting. This is because the hurt isn't based on what happened in your life. It's based on the thoughts you made up as a result of what happened. Once this illusion is exposed, the hurt loses power and you become free.

Once you find and heal this hurt, the areas of your life that don't work automatically begin to clear up. The tunnel vision disappears and so does the fear and upset. You restore your ability to see clearly. You become creative, resourceful and able to discover solutions you could never have seen before.

We fight what happens, because our circumstances trigger a suppressed hurt from the past. To say this another way, our circumstances strike a nerve.

This is why different people get upset at different things. Different people have different sets of nerves that get triggered. This is also why the same type of upsets and the same self-sabotaging behavior keep showing up in your life. The same suppressed hurt keeps getting triggered.

It's the automatic, subconscious avoidance of this hurt that sabotages our lives. Finding and healing this hurt is one of the most important things you can ever do.

Whenever some circumstance comes along and hints that you really are this way, you will automatically feel threatened. Instantly, you become full of fear and upset. You get tunnel vision. All you can do is fight, resist, hang on or withdraw. This in turn destroys love and sabotages your life.

You try to push the hurt away, but you can't. The hurt isn't outside of you. It's inside. So, in your attempt to push the hurt away, you actually push the hurt deeper inside.

You suppress your hurt. You then spend the rest of your life running from the very hurt that you suppressed. But you can't get away from it. You will continue to experience these feelings whether you like it or not.

As long as you have this hurt, it will get triggered. Your only choice is to feel it willingly like a child or to feel it unwillingly. When you feel your hurt willingly, the hurt loses power and disappears. When you fight the hurt, it turns into pain and stays.

So feel your hurt willingly like a child. Keep telling yourself, "It's okay to feel the hurt. It's okay." Let the hurt come and let it go. Cry as hard as you can. Crying is the most powerful tool for releasing hurt.

Peace and Love..........John

Here are some of my favorite quotes on Circumstances…

"Circumstances do not make a man, they reveal him." -Wayne Dyer

“Man is not the creature of circumstances, circumstances are the creatures of men.” -Benjamin Disraeli

"People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want and if they can't find them, make them." -George Bernard Shaw

"We adults cannot blame our unhappiness on the environment, our upbringing, our family or friends, our jobs or anything else. We need to take responsibility for ourselves to be all we can be." -Susan Smith Jones

"It's like the proverbial orange. If you squeeze an orange, what comes out of it is orange juice because that's what is inside. It's not because of who does the squeezing or what the circumstances are, it's because what is inside, that's what an orange is. When someone squeezes you, the same metaphor applies. If out of you comes anger or hatred or bitterness or fear, it isn't because of who did the squeezing; it isn't because of the circumstances, it's because that's what is inside. And what's inside of you is there because of how you choose to think and process your life." -Dr. Wayne Dyer, "Science of Mind" 1993

“If you have an area of life where you suffer, you have a condition of unworkability. This condition may seem to be caused by your circumstances, but it's not.

Your circumstances are not the problem. They are just a symptom of something much deeper. The real problem is an underlying fear that forces you to interact in a way that creates your circumstances.” -Bill Ferguson

“Your particular circumstances may seem to be the problem, but they're not. Your circumstances are just a symptom of a deeper problem. The real problem is this underlying condition of resistance.

As long as you focus on the circumstances without addressing the underlying condition that creates them, nothing will ever change.” -Bill Ferguson

“Upsets seem to be caused by the circumstances, but they’re not. No circumstance ever has the ability to make you upset. All a circumstance can do is strike a nerve in you. That’s why the same thing can happen to two people and one will be upset and one won’t.

If the circumstance caused the upset, then everyone would react in the same way. Obviously, this doesn’t happen.”
-Bill Ferguson, “Miracles are Guaranteed” p. 11

“If you are distressed about anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.” Marcus Aurelius, “ATGW” p. 60

“Although we’d like to believe it’s our intellect that really drives us, in most cases our emotions---the sensations that we link to our thoughts---are what really drive us.” -Anthony Robbins, “ATGW” p. 61

“So often we’re seduced into believing that events control our lives and that our environment has shaped who we are today. No greater lie was ever told. It’s not the events of our lives that shape us, but our beliefs as to what those events mean.” -Anthony Robbins, “ATGW” p. 73

“It’s not the events that shape my life that determine how I feel and act, but rather, it’s the way I interpret and evaluate my life experiences.” -Anthony Robbins, “ATGW” p. 179

“The presence or absence of this love seems to be a function of what happens around you, but it's not. It's a function of how you relate to what happens. In other words, the presence or absence of love is a function of you.” -Bill Ferguson

“It’s not what happens to us, it’s what we do with it that counts.” -Naomi Judd “Naomi’s Breakthrough Guide 20 Choices To Transform Your Life, p. 36

“All the men of genius that we have ever heard of have triumphed over adverse circumstances, but that is no reason for supposing that there were not innumerable others who succumbed in youth.” -Lord Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) English sociologist & philosopher

Peace and Love..........John

Here is an excerpt from Deepak Chopra’s book “Ageless Body, Timeless Mind”…

“Stripped to the basics, emotions arouse two sensations--pain and pleasure. We all want to avoid pain and pursue pleasure; therefore, all the complicated emotional states we find ourselves in are the result of not being able to obey those basic drives. Psychiatrist David Viscott has reduced emotional complexity to a single cycle that gets repeated countless times in everyone’s life. This cycle begins in the present, where only pain and pleasure are felt, and ends up with complex feelings centered exclusively in the past, such as guilt and depression. The cycle of emotion is as follows:

• Pain in the present is experienced as hurt.
• Pain in the past is remembered as anger.
• Pain in the future is perceived as anxiety.
• Unexpressed anger, redirected against yourself and held within, is called guilt.
• The depletion of energy that occurs when anger is redirected inward creates depression.

What this cycle tells us is that stored hurt is responsible for a wide range of psychological distress. Buried hurt disguises itself as anger, anxiety, guilt, and depression. The only way to deal with these layers of pain is to find out what hurts as the pain occurs, deal with it, and move on. Living in the present means being honest enough to avoid the easy emotion, which is anger, and expose the hurt, which is harder to confront. When hurt is not resolved in the present, the vicious buildup of anger, anxiety, guilt, and depression can only grow worse.” -Deepak Chopra, “Ageless Body, Timeless Mind” p. 186

Peace and Love..........John

To forgive or not to forgive is moot here because as far as banana who is concerned, she's done nothing wrong except point out my bad attitude and non-compassion, and if anything was deleted, well that's the fault of the deleter and she had absolutely nothing to do with Bryan again banning all talk of politics and economics.

I'm the bad guy, not banana who.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is an excerpt from Deepak Chopra’s book
> “Ageless Body, Timeless Mind”…
>
> “Stripped to the basics, emotions arouse two
> sensations--pain and pleasure. We all want to
> avoid pain and pursue pleasure; therefore, all the
> complicated emotional states we find ourselves in
> are the result of not being able to obey those
> basic drives. Psychiatrist David Viscott has
> reduced emotional complexity to a single cycle
> that gets repeated countless times in everyone’s
> life. This cycle begins in the present, where
> only pain and pleasure are felt, and ends up with
> complex feelings centered exclusively in the past,
> such as guilt and depression. The cycle of
> emotion is as follows:
>
> • Pain in the present is experienced as hurt.
> • Pain in the past is remembered as anger.
> • Pain in the future is perceived as anxiety.
> • Unexpressed anger, redirected against yourself
> and held within, is called guilt.
> • The depletion of energy that occurs when anger
> is redirected inward creates depression.
>
> What this cycle tells us is that stored hurt is
> responsible for a wide range of psychological
> distress. Buried hurt disguises itself as anger,
> anxiety, guilt, and depression. The only way to
> deal with these layers of pain is to find out what
> hurts as the pain occurs, deal with it, and move
> on. Living in the present means being honest
> enough to avoid the easy emotion, which is anger,
> and expose the hurt, which is harder to confront.
> When hurt is not resolved in the present, the
> vicious buildup of anger, anxiety, guilt, and
> depression can only grow worse.” -Deepak
> Chopra, “Ageless Body, Timeless Mind” p. 186
>
> Peace and Love..........John

Sigh... lovely...

Wow, strong words on bullies, Storm. But that's what they say - you have to stand up to them or they'll just keep on intimidating you.

This whole Thread has NOTHING to do with the Present - it has to do with the PAST!!!

If you are being bullied, defend yourself, but if you were bullied as a child or if you had horrible Parents or you were outnumbered in political debates and you keep reliving those nightmares because circumstances trigger these painful experiences or a perceived painful experiences, it’s time to FORGIVE!!!

Peace and Love..........John

Mmm... if a person is living in their past who is living their life for them right now? It's not a life fully lived that way IMHO. What exactly is the point then?

hmmm... very deep thread

forgiveness

wow

a profound thing to do and i think it often comes in stages
and is more like a river that continues to run into things and reveal things
rather than a one time event

so its very complex
and an extremely worthwhile thing to contemplate

thanks for this thread

i'll read the rest of it later

"...but if you were bullied as a child or if you had horrible Parents or you were outnumbered in political debates and you keep reliving those nightmares because circumstances trigger these painful experiences or a perceived painful experiences, it’s time to FORGIVE!!!"

Forgiveness is one thing, but the pain lasts forever... I believe the two are being confused by the masses. If you haven't experienced real torment in your life/childhood/whtever, you cannot relate.

It's so easy to say "forgive & get over it."

As usual John, you have a lot of pretty sounding, sugar coated words....Empty words, IMO. How would you suggest >EXACTLY< one forgives & moves on from the pain?

Some do...MOST don't.

" What I find interesting is that many people get upset because some event or circumstance triggers a painful experience or a perceived painful experience where they relive or are reminded of those unresolved issues."

Once again, I inquire - how do you counsel folks in your sessions to "move past" and "resolve those issues" especially if you must interact with said offender on a daily basis, and they continually offend and have no desire whatsoever to resolve matters?

<<<Forgiveness is one thing, but the pain lasts forever... I believe the two are being confused by the masses. If you haven't experienced real torment in your life/childhood/whtever, you cannot relate.>>>

I've got to go walk my dog and I'll respond to your other comments when I get back, but in the meantime, read this woman's story and if she can forgive, so can we!

[www.letgoletpeacecomein.org]
Teal’s Story

I was raised in the Wasatch-Cache National Forest of Utah, a location with an intensely religious climate (over 90% Mormon). In the first year of my life, it became immediately apparent that I had been born with unusual talents that set me apart from other children. My parents did not understand them. But in time, they came to find out that they were extrasensory abilities which did not go away with age. Because of the size of the town and the predominate local religion, word of my unusual abilities got out very quickly and they were not only frowned upon but also feared by many in the community.

Like many children growing up as a religious minority I was ostracized as a child and the extent of difficulty in my life could have stopped at that, except that it was because of my misunderstood, extrasensory talents that I caught the attention of a local sociopath who suffered from an extreme and dangerous form of dissociative identity disorder. This man had many personalities, one of which belonged to a local Christian cult (called The Blood Covenant) and one of which attended Satanic rituals. This man who was a loose acquaintance of my family, managed to infiltrate my family and position himself between me and my parents as a mentor. Among other things, he managed to convince me that he was my real father. He became my mentor to such a degree that my family trusted him with me on weekend trips, with after school activities and to mentor me in horsemanship. He was who they turned to about what to do about my abilities, and later... in my teen years, they trusted him to take me in when I got so mentally unstable (due to the abuse) that my family didn’t know what to do with me anymore. All the time my parents were unaware that he was creating the very condition he claimed to be helping. He would not let me enter my parent’s house without him, so that he could "explain away" the reasons that I continued to come home with injures, some of them bad enough that they required hospital attention. It is an easy thing to do in a western culture, where injury is a way of life around horses and cattle and the elements. He was taking me out of my bed at night until he eventually trained me to come of my own accord (by using electro-shock programming to "cue" me to the trigger of the time 3:22 am). And he also managed on many occasions to take me out of school. It was because of this man that I was inducted at six years old into these local cults and was routinely ritualistically tortured and programmed by this man and the members of the cults he belonged to for thirteen years.

Over the course of those thirteen years, I was tortured physically and sexually in religious rituals, forced to participate in both animal and human sacrifices, repeatedly raped and starved. I was forced to undergo 3 abortions (all fathered by this sociopathic man himself who was in his sixties at the time) he performed them himself because his profession as a large animal veterinarian allowed him not only the meager instruments to do so, but also the “know how”. I was photographed for sadomasochistic pornography, sold for money to men for sex out of motels and outdoor gas station bathrooms, kept hogtied in basements and kept in a hole in the ground in this man’s back yard. I was exposed repeatedly to electro-shock programming (which has resulted in long term grand-mal seizures), forced to undergo isolation torture and left overnight tied up in lava caves in southern Idaho. I was also forced to participate in bestiality and necrophilia and was drugged with Ketamine, Dormator, Xylazine, opiates and speed (all of which this man had unlimited access to due to his career). I was repeatedly chased through wilderness by him while he was riding his mules "playing" tracking games in which he would hunt me and if I was caught, I was punished by him "counting coup" on my rib cage (which meant he would make linear cuts with a knife on my side). And I was also used as a lure to other children that ended up also being hurt. The first time I tried to escape, he killed my dog (whom was my best and only friend). The second time I tried to escape, he killed my horse. The third time I tried to escape he managed to get the body of a suicide victim from a morgue and forced me to perform sexual acts and ritually mark the body and then proceeded to try to convince me that I had killed the man. Despite all of this, I managed to escape at 19 years old with the help of a boy I’d only met briefly but whom is my closest friend to this day who hid me.

My parents did not recognize the "red flags" for what they were. It did not occur to them that this thing went on in the world much less with someone whom they ended up trusting completely. They mistook my “issues” for mental illness. It ripped our family apart. Now there is so much guilt and pain between us it is hard to have a decent relationship.

After my escape, I managed to make the US Telemark ski team and becoming a competitive long track speed skater. Like many people who come from abusive backgrounds, I gravitated towards sports because it involved physical pain and it was the only skill set I had. I had an addiction to self injury. It was because of this altered relationship to pain that I had the ability to completely dissociate pain. The reason I did well in sports had little to do with my amazing prowess as an athlete, I am not built like an athlete. It has to do with the fact that I can shut off my pain response system because that was the only way to cope with the torture I had no choice but to endure as a child. It was a familiar state for me and therefore I was able to push the envelope of physical stress further than most people.

My abuse did become a matter of the state. Due to a confidentiality clause which was nullified by certain details of my abuse, my psychologist at the time presented me with the option that I willingly tell the authorities what went on or she would have to contact them with or without my consent with the details of the abuse. So, in 2005 I told the local authorities the horrendous story of my past. It turned into an investigation, which went cold after quite some time when the district attorney decided that despite the scar mappings and the fact that I had provided the prosecution human teeth and hair, the state could not provide enough substantial physical evidence to win a case. When interviewed for a news article, Deputy County Attorney Barbara Lachmar acknowledged the existence of my case, but said she would not speak about it other than to say “no charges to date have been filed.” Obviously this answer leaves things fairly open-ended. I presented an unusually noteworthy case because unlike many women who go into therapy to heal from ritual abuse, none of my memories are recovered memories. However, I completely believe in recovered memory. I have unwillingly participated in deliberately programming children younger than me to dissociate memories. It is important to note that accounts of ritualistic child abuse are not new to Northern Utah. Rumors and allegations of this nature were widespread in the 1980s. In fact, one case in Ogden does stand out as a stark example that such things do indeed happen. In her 2008 book “Hell Minus One,” Anne Johnson Davis writes a horrifying account of sexual torture and abuse at the hands of her parents and fellow devil worshipers. Her mother and stepfather confessed the abuse to investigators with the Utah Attorney General’s Office. Also noteworthy in the context of possible cult activity in the region was the recent discovery in Ogden of a shrine that included the remains of sacrificed animals along with two human skulls. The news articles written about my case helped more victims of the same cult come forward to the newspaper. Unfortunately, none of them were willing to inform police, or give names.

In 2007 I met and then married a wonderful man whom I met in a dog park who helps me to heal daily and in 2009, a miracle happened... We had a son. After going through infertility, it was something I was told most likely could not happen due to the scarring from the forced abortions I had undergone. Now, I have the chance to give someone the childhood I did not have. Like many ritual abuse victims, I was mentally programmed with a “death date”. It was a date upon which (according to the cult) my time upon this earth would run out. That day was my 26th birthday which came in 2010. I managed to survive that day which meant to me that not only was the cult wrong, but that I was now embarking on a new life. After having gone through five years of specialized psychotherapy for acute PTSD specifically tailored to ritual abuse victims, I decided to use my experience and extrasensory abilities for the greater good of mankind. I have assumed the title of “The Spiritual Catalyst” and am now developing a growing following as I embark on a mission as a contemporary spiritual guide to remind people of the united, energetic nature of this universe and to teach people how to find health, freedom and bliss in the midst of even the most extreme circumstances.

[www.thespiritualcatalyst.com]

[www.letgoletpeacecomein.org]

Peace and Love..........John

veganjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...but if you were bullied as a child or if you
> had horrible Parents or you were outnumbered in
> political debates and you keep reliving those
> nightmares because circumstances trigger these
> painful experiences or a perceived painful
> experiences, it’s time to FORGIVE!!!"
>
> Forgiveness is one thing, but the pain lasts
> forever... I believe the two are being confused by
> the masses. If you haven't experienced real
> torment in your life/childhood/whtever, you cannot
> relate.
>
> It's so easy to say "forgive & get over it."
>
> As usual John, you have a lot of pretty sounding,
> sugar coated words....Empty words, IMO. How would
> you suggest >EXACTLY< one forgives & moves on from
> the pain?
>
> Some do...MOST don't.
>
> " What I find interesting is that many people get
> upset because some event or circumstance triggers
> a painful experience or a perceived painful
> experience where they relive or are reminded of
> those unresolved issues."
>
> Once again, I inquire - how do you counsel folks
> in your sessions to "move past" and "resolve those
> issues" especially if you must interact with said
> offender on a daily basis, and they continually
> offend and have no desire whatsoever to resolve
> matters?


Well ranting and raving about how you can't won't shouldn't and will never let go of resentment is a sure way NOT to ever change and let go of that poison. All you need to do is WANT to feel better and you'll find a way. For me this was very easy, it didn't take years of hard work and expensive therapy or reading a thousand books etc etc. I read ONE book that was suggested to me, did the little 10 minute q&a exercise and found myself letting go of a deep seated childhood resentment that had been in my heart and mind and coloured all of my actions and relationships with others as well as myself. I literally could not muster up a bit of unhappy feeling about a situation that had been a part of me for nearly all of my life. I had released myself from that pain. So I KNOW that this is possible, these are not just pretty little sugar coated words. Like everything in life though you have to want it. If you don't, it will never work for you and then you have NO ONE to be upset with anymore but yourself. Because YOU are CHOOSING to be in an unhappy place. That's on you, nothing anybody did or said to you is responsible for that.
It's about ownership of your life. Who rules you? Who is living this miraculous life that you've be gifted with? Is you YOU or is it every thing and everybody else? It's up to you...

[www.thework.com]

OMG, John! I somehow came upon Teal several months ago and bought her book and it has been totally amazing. Her teachings really resonate with me.

Kid Raw, I don't know exactly what you experienced with your mother but I wonder if you could sit down and think about what sort of childhood did she have? Was she mentally ill? Because I have had to look at my own life and I now understand things that I didn't before. My parents have been pretty secretive about their childhoods. They were not very open about their lives to me. So I have felt like I didn't really know them. As a result, I have never experienced the closeness that some children experience with their parents.

But it is what it is. There is nothing I can do to alter that. There is nothing that you can do to alter how your mother treated you. It is the past.

What you CAN do is choose to be happy. Otherwise you will pick up where your mother left off. And you will see others as persecuting you when they are not.

Somehow I missed this thread and having read it, it seems you want me to apologize. It would not be good for me to do it to keep the peace because I did not do anything to try and get you silenced.

There was a time in the past where you had not posted for a while and someone mentioned that you had been temporarily banned. I stuck up for you.

If the search function didn't suck so much, I could "prove" it to you. I said that even if we don't agree that you should be allowed to express yourself. Something like that.

Geez, I hope my kids won't feel less close to me if I don't tell them all the horrible things that happened to me as a child. That stuff is so far behind me, I don't see any point in living through it again. I sure use some of the lessons I learned from it all but I don't go back there and dwell in that misery and I sure don't want to bring my children along on that sort of journey!
I guess they will have to put up with knowing who I am now. I think they have a pretty good sense of that, we're a tight little family unit.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geez, I hope my kids won't feel less close to me
> if I don't tell them all the horrible things that
> happened to me as a child. That stuff is so far
> behind me, I don't see any point in living through
> it again. I sure use some of the lessons I learned
> from it all but I don't go back there and dwell in
> that misery and I sure don't want to bring my
> children along on that sort of journey!
> I guess they will have to put up with knowing who
> I am now. I think they have a pretty good sense of
> that, we're a tight little family unit.

Coco, I am talking about even general information or speaking of growing up. I know some things but not very much. The fact that they chose to do that is in line with other behaviors that created distance between us. Were your parents difficult? If you basically have good relationships with them, it's hard to understand this. But with abusive parents, one of their main things is to always keep the upperhand by never appearing weak. And so if a child knows that their parent experienced something traumatic in the past, it's easier to have compassion. Otherwise you just see the person as mean, evil, one-dimensional. I doubt that you are the type of parent to lord over your children and abuse your power like some parents are.

No, I guess I'm not that sort of parent. My own childhood was multi-facetted, of course. There was a lot of unquestioned love from my family to me but there was some messed up stuff too. Very. And it's taken me years of thinking about my parents and gleaning what I could about their lives, their childhoods, their minds, to come to some sort of understanding about why they were the way they were. I'd say we have ok relationships now but that is ONLY because I choose not to hold onto negative feelings and perpetuate cycles with them, which would be very easy to do. I prefer less friction between us and if that means I have to be the one to do the letting go, so be it. I'd rather not put in the energy needed to resent and hold stuff against them, that's a lot of work and I'm just too busy for it.
Hopefully my kids will see that I loved them and tried my best, despite all the mistakes I make. I tell them sometimes that this is my first time being a parent and I don't exactly know what I'm doing all the time and need their help figuring things out. They're pretty good about letting me know where I'm messing up, lol.

i wonder how i would feel
if forgiveness was not just partial but complete
what that would look like
how that would feel in my life

there are so many peoples and institutions that
engender feelings that borders on rage
but the rage is just another form of self injury
when external entitites refuse to change

i wonder how it would feel
to be right here
right now
free

just within myself
the world goes on with its fury and chaos
and the miracle of forgiveness occurs within
and i'm a completely different person

its good to wonder
i wonder if that will ever happen
truly
completely

i wonder what forgiveness ... total forgiveness even means
what that looks like
feels like

how much of my life has been invisibly bound
by harboring an unforgiving nature
i don't even want to know

it seems too deep to even fathom
wrongs committed ought not to ever be forgiven
because it resembles condoning the behavior
but people will do what they do
and what will i do, in the meantime

be in an endless spiral of apoplectic shock and hurt
or forgive myself for not having the tools or wherewithal to bring my own
self to freedom

maybe that's a beginning
i can't control what others do or say

the frustration lies in having control of my own actions, thoughts and emotions
the freedom there is complete (to a degree, i guess)
and not being able to get to that wide open space

a meadow filled with flowers
that do not feel they are miraculous
they just are

but maybe i can get there
maybe i'm even half way there

and with just a little bit of imagination
maybe i can always stay there

Hey V,

That was absolutely beautiful and Bill Ferguson will be proud to see his thoughts so artistically expressed.

Peace and Love..........John

riverhousebill


<<The only persons you should ever get even with are the ones that have helped you>>

HA HA... that's freakin AWESOME riverhousebill !!

that one is worth remembering