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Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: Jose ()
Date: March 05, 2008 11:55PM

Interesting article on artificial intelligence and unravelling the mysteries of the human brain. The state of the art in computational neuroscience.

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In the basement of a university in Lausanne, Switzerland sit four black boxes, each about the size of a refrigerator, and filled with 2,000 IBM microchips stacked in repeating rows. Together they form the processing core of a machine that can handle 22.8 trillion operations per second. It contains no moving parts and is eerily silent. When the computer is turned on, the only thing you can hear is the continuous sigh of the massive air conditioner. This is Blue Brain.

The name of the supercomputer is literal: Each of its microchips has been programmed to act just like a real neuron in a real brain. The behavior of the computer replicates, with shocking precision, the cellular events unfolding inside a mind. "This is the first model of the brain that has been built from the bottom-up," says Henry Markram, a neuroscientist at Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) and the director of the Blue Brain project. "There are lots of models out there, but this is the only one that is totally biologically accurate. We began with the most basic facts about the brain and just worked from there."

Before the Blue Brain project launched, Markram had likened it to the Human Genome Project, a comparison that some found ridiculous and others dismissed as mere self-promotion. When he launched the project in the summer of 2005, as a joint venture with IBM, there was still no shortage of skepticism. Scientists criticized the project as an expensive pipedream, a blatant waste of money and talent. Neuroscience didn't need a supercomputer, they argued; it needed more molecular biologists. Terry Sejnowski, an eminent computational neuroscientist at the Salk Institute, declared that Blue Brain was "bound to fail," for the mind remained too mysterious to model. But Markram's attitude was very different. "I wanted to model the brain because we didn't understand it," he says. "The best way to figure out how something works is to try to build it from scratch."

The Blue Brain project is now at a crucial juncture. The first phase of the project—"the feasibility phase"—is coming to a close. The skeptics, for the most part, have been proven wrong. It took less than two years for the Blue Brain supercomputer to accurately simulate a neocortical column, which is a tiny slice of brain containing approximately 10,000 neurons, with about 30 million synaptic connections between them. "The column has been built and it runs," Markram says. "Now we just have to scale it up." Blue Brain scientists are confident that, at some point in the next few years, they will be able to start simulating an entire brain. "If we build this brain right, it will do everything," Markram says. I ask him if that includes selfconsciousness: Is it really possible to put a ghost into a machine? "When I say everything, I mean everything," he says, and a mischievous smile spreads across his face.

The rest here [www.seedmagazine.com]

Cheers,
J


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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: la_veronique ()
Date: March 06, 2008 12:39AM

yeah but can the computer
FEEL?

happiness
sadness
hope

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: ThomasLantern ()
Date: March 06, 2008 06:48AM

my money is on "no"
but it definitely seems like a worthwhile endeavour!

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: Jose ()
Date: March 06, 2008 11:27AM

I don't know, but if we take the view that we are organisms that have evolved from simple origins through the course of billions of years, then perhaps we can artificially recreate that evolutionary process of natural selection and speed it up to create organisms possessing artificial intelligence that would be quite similar to us in that they could feel as well as be sentient. This would, among others things, serve to refute ID assertions on our own origins, weaken the ideological grip theistic thought still has over many of us and be very interesting in the study of consciousness and free will.

Cheers,
J


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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: ThomasLantern ()
Date: March 06, 2008 04:27PM

Overall, I agree that it's a worthwhile project!
Thanks for the post, dude smiling smiley

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: Lightform ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:00AM

LaV :
Do you !!, and how do I know ? Does a dog.. does a bee.. a flower a tree a rock ? How do you determine such a thing ?

My opinion is that there is consciousness in everything and that in general, we attribute sentience or awareness to those parts which are sufficiently sophisticated enough to be able to produce expressions of "feeling" which we can relate to on a human level.

I believe that everything is aware in its own way and that if a computer ( which is fundamentally built out of the same stuff as you, I and everything else ) is built to reproduce human sentiment, that it is as sentient as its perceived ability to comprehend and react to its outside stimulus dictates. Which is an intirely individual discernment at its core. So yeah.. I believe that it can feel for sure, just like I believe that a tree can.

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: Lightform ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:06AM

Oh and I might add... if they made one so complex that it started behaving in a manner that I felt was truely self aware and human, I would grant it the same respect and reverance that I give to other humans winking smiley

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: jono ()
Date: March 07, 2008 01:08AM

They key is whether they'll be friendly or unfriendly beings. I don't think we can predict this. If they feel threatened by us they may seek to destroy us. They will be much smarter than humans and will easily deceive us.

Humans have caused extinctions of other species. One of which may have been Neanderthals. One theory is Homo sapiens out competed Neanderthals leading to their extinction. Another theory is that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens inter-bred and some co-evolution took place.

Will we co-evolve with the artilects? Will they compete with us and lead to our extinction. How should we guide our own evolution?

You could say we are giving birth to these intelligent machines. And we will forever be a part of them, just as the first single-celled organisms are a part of us. But now many of those first organisms are nothing but mineralized remains of their once-thriving selves. Will we also become just another entry in the fossil record?

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: la_veronique ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:09AM

lightform:


<<believe that everything is aware in its own way and that if a computer ( which is fundamentally built out of the same stuff as you, I and everything else ) is built to reproduce human sentiment, that it is as sentient as its perceived ability to comprehend and react to its outside stimulus dictates. Which is an intirely individual discernment at its core. So yeah.. I believe that it can feel for sure, just like I believe that a tree can.>>

next thing u know... they will be indistinguishable from humans ( just like in the movies)... and we will have little cyborgians everywhere LOL smiling smiley

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: arugula ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:10AM

No, way too many degrees of freedom to replicate, the neural networks in the brain have a plasticity that adapts: the hardware changes the software and vice versa and there are too many different environmental stimuli. I don't think any machine can ever approach the scope although if it's doable for very well defined specific tasks such as playing chess.

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: Lightform ()
Date: March 07, 2008 06:30AM

Yeah well... upon saying all of the above, I too feel that basicly, unless you have another living being that what ever consciousness you have will be imited in its versatility and scope relative to the machines design. I don't think that a machine made out of static parts, i.e one that can't grow and adapt like a living body, will ever reach the complexity required for our perception of sentience or consciousness.

Jono :
Those are some interesting thoughts, although have you considered the aspect of motive ? All these science fiction concepts of machines which have reached sentient level turning on humans seem rather absurd to me. Why would they do it ? There would have to be a conflict of interests, such as both parties requiring the same limited resorces. Unless they had a demand for something which we humans also needed and were in competition for then there would be no motive for conflict to occur.

It is feasible that we could create them to have a desire to reproduce, in which case they would then have motive to aquire building materials. It is feasable that they could develop this or perhaps a similar desire given the level of complexity which would allow for "free" thought. It is also feasable that there could be a conflict in terms of their energy requirements but again, how would this differ from human to human interaction, and why would it equate to a desire to commit genocide ?

We humans have banded together and monopolised resorces and exploited those that aren't in our clan, tribe, group or nation for many years. In the event that we created a machine capable of desiring self replication or other attribute in competition with us, why would this be any different ? Why would it not band together in little groups and fight each other ? What would make it singly focus on human conflict ?

I believe that we could welcome a new race and get along just fine, and that all these issues are no different than the inter racial, inter national ones that we already currently face winking smiley

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: Lightform ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:20AM

If for some reason that I cannot fathom you are right, then it might do this planet some good if we created a spiecies that were smarter than us and wiped us out smiling smiley. However, I see humans as a perfect form and don't personaly rate intelligence with the ability to compute things mathematically. I think that emotion, feeling, creativity and spontaneity are all a virtue of our form of existance and cannot realy be superseded.

I also think that if these new beings were realy conscious, that any driving force within their motives would be the same as ours at its core. IMO if it were more than a mechanical process, it must be emotional or rather spiritual in its essence.

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Re: Can a thinking, remembering, decision-making, biologically accurate brain be built from a supercomputer?
Posted by: la_veronique ()
Date: March 08, 2008 04:26PM

i would like to have a cyborg friend
but it would feel lonely

a pretentious echo of the metallic cogs that lie underneath it all

to talk to a cyborg being would be fun
til i realized that all of it was just an interwoven algorithm of words mathematically computed to "respond" to my queries and comments

most of all i would love to share a smoothie with a cyborgian
but i'm afraid the water will ruin its exquisitely sensitive "hardware"

and show itself for what it truly is
just a machine

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