I'd like to know how people feel about being vegan and consuming conventional produce, i.e. potentially grown with harmful products for insects, but also for humans such as the farm workers exposed to them?
For me, non-organic food is not really vegan. Just look at non organic bananas and how the workers are being sprayed from planes without warnings. Or non organic cashews in India, and all the farmers' children developing nervous system problems and physical deformations at birth, because they live next to the plantations.
What's your opinion on this subject? Is Human considered in vegan concerns?

Raw Fruit Festival
[www.raw-fruit-festival.net]
Health, Fitness and Fasting Retreats in Spain
[www.fit-in-nature.net]

yikes. now that is disturbing.
as with honey and house pets, there are differing levels of veganism. some people refer to themselves as vegan but still wear leather, wool and/or silk, use honey or have captive house creatures. along these lines i suppose that ANY behavior that is harmful to other creatures could be deemed non-vegan. what about burning fossil fuels? in that case vegans should not drive, fly or take public transport. it could go to many extremes.
i think as with all things it's a personal issue, you have to do what YOU feel is best. i just don't wear any kind of label at all, that way i have nothing to "live up to" except my highest goals.

i would love to eat all organic but it's simply out of my price range at this time. in future i may take the kids to live on a workshare organic farm off the grid and see how that suits us. we shall see.

Excellent post coco (and excellent quest SGC). The question (in my mind) is: is a person doing everything that they think is reasonable to avoid killing (people...animals....or ANYTHING). If the answer is YES.....then they are in a Vegan state of mind/process!

-If all of life is change, then all we can have is perfection in an ongoing process.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Quote

Posted by: coco (IP Logged)
Date: May 19, 2008 02:15PM

i just don't wear any kind of label at all, that way i have nothing to "live up to" except my highest goals.

Thats a great stress buster. Not having to live up to someone else's standards but instead living to please yourself and your own standards is a great way to live.

Start from today forward. I'm already enmeshed in a world that demands certain things from me. Focus on the positive, and make every choice a conscious one. Just like toxins stuck in the body, bad habits will fall away over time without notice.

I have a budget, an expensive pair of work shoes, and I'm not going to throw them away just because they're leather (I bought them before I was vegan-conscious). But when I need a new pair of shoes, the story will be different.

I did some budget reshuffling to start buying organic when available. If the store is out of organic bananas, I'll still get conventional--but making the choice to show respect to the earth and its creatures when I can is a great thing for me. I don't think the earth expects us to either starve or eat organic... just do/give what you have when you can. I pump my car full of petrol to drive to the store to buy organic, mind you.

We're all stuck in this together...

I made a commitment to my body to eat only organic a few years ago. Have done so successfully for 10 years, even during financial droughts. Since then I've not been concerned with the cost. My health supercedes it. When you shift your focus, the money becomes available. Somehow and always.

Personally I can only eat organic or unchemically altered or affected produce for my peace of mind. Not only that if I do eat conventional produce, I get a monster headache.

"When you shift your focus, the money becomes available"

what do you do for work, may i ask? as a single mom of two i find that i have enough for us, for everything that we need (though we do live a very simple life). but not if i were to purchase all organic foods.

"When you shift your focus, the money becomes available"
Thanks Rawangel for this statement. That's something I'd like to hear more often.

"I did some budget reshuffling to start buying organic when available. "
Same thing Phantom. You are in a different spirit than most people.

I found that most often people complain they can't buy organic food because it's too expensive. But at the same time, they always find money to pay off their car, their telephone/cellphone bill, their cable TV, electricity for all the electrical gadgets in the house and more. Food budget often does not come as a the number one.
I eat only organic, and where I live, there are no organic stores nearby, but we live on a farm and grow most of our food, so it's easier and cheaper.
But before that, we were living in a big city, and our food bill was very reasonable and all organic. There are several ways to lower your food bill with organic food. You can buy food in bulk/pre-order in coop stores. Usually big chain stores like Whole Foods are way more expensive than coops, and definitely more expensive than farmers market. Of course, buying produce in season, and not prewashed/packaged is cheaper too. But the best thing to do is either join a CSA in a local farm, or volunteer one day a week. Get out to the farm with your kids one day a week, and get most of your food for free in exchange. Moneywise it's a great deal.

Raw Fruit Festival
[www.raw-fruit-festival.net]
Health, Fitness and Fasting Retreats in Spain
[www.fit-in-nature.net]

I only eat organic and have tried to for thirty years, but I haven't always been able to 100% for various reasons (money, lack of availability). But I've always tried to have as much as possible. Sometimes it's been 30%, sometimes 100%. Over the past five years I've felt more conviction to eat 100%. The only exceptions are when I eat out or at work (a fine dining restaurant), and then I go for the mesclun greens as much as possible, because they're often organic. I also try to get the exec chef where I work to buy organic when possible by giving him the "quality is better with organic" reasoning. I think with the pervasiveness of cancer (my older daughter has had it and I recently lost a dog to it who used to run through conventional orchards all the time), pesticide use should be phased out, or at least waaaayyy down.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "When you shift your focus, the money becomes
> available"
>
> what do you do for work, may i ask? as a single
> mom of two i find that i have enough for us, for
> everything that we need (though we do live a very
> simple life). but not if i were to purchase all
> organic foods.

before i answer your question, you just made an affirmation of lack by saying "but not if i were to purchase organic foods". this for me goes beyond what you do for a living, it's how view your life and understanding we're always abundant and prospering, especially when we think we aren't. this forum is probably not the best place to get into it, but basically it gets down to "believing" that you'll always have "enough" and that you're always taken care of. i've been impoverished, i've experienced extreme lack and extreme wealth in my life. a rollercoaster really. it is when i was poor as dirt that i discovered this truth and the money began flowing because i was no longer focused on not having enough, but rather trusting somehow that i would be okay. i found great contracts and i regained my financial well being. it's a state of mind that i discovered when i didn't have much. when i was wealthy i was living in survival and believed in lack...therefore i never had enough and was always broke anyway. now i'm making substantially less and always have more than enough of everything i need. Go figure. it's a universal law...the law of attraction. what you believe and think, you attract.

most people who've ridden on the money rollercoaster and gained greater awareness as a result understand this. when you hit your rock bottom, you've already attained your worst case scenario in most cases so the only way up is, well Up. during all of these oftentimes very challenging and frightening transitions in my life, i still managed to eat 100% organic produce. either it was gifted to me by friends, i found great deals in food co-ops, ordered CSA boxes, or money became available to me to purchase it. there are many ways to do everything, you just have to believe and want it. it's about not putting self-imposed limitations on what you think you can have. and there are so many ways to save money as well if you do your research. when you put the two together belief and action, you can definately do it. just my experience and opinion.


and i'm a spiritual life coach & intuitive to answer your question. in my former life, i was a stressed out corp exec. :-)

sgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "When you shift your focus, the money becomes
> available"
> Thanks Rawangel for this statement. That's
> something I'd like to hear more often.
>
> "I did some budget reshuffling to start buying
> organic when available. "
> Same thing Phantom. You are in a different spirit
> than most people.
>
> I found that most often people complain they can't
> buy organic food because it's too expensive. But
> at the same time, they always find money to pay
> off their car, their telephone/cellphone bill,
> their cable TV, electricity for all the electrical
> gadgets in the house and more. Food budget often
> does not come as a the number one.
> I eat only organic, and where I live, there are no
> organic stores nearby, but we live on a farm and
> grow most of our food, so it's easier and
> cheaper.
> But before that, we were living in a big city, and
> our food bill was very reasonable and all organic.
> There are several ways to lower your food bill
> with organic food. You can buy food in
> bulk/pre-order in coop stores. Usually big chain
> stores like Whole Foods are way more expensive
> than coops, and definitely more expensive than
> farmers market. Of course, buying produce in
> season, and not prewashed/packaged is cheaper too.
> But the best thing to do is either join a CSA in a
> local farm, or volunteer one day a week. Get out
> to the farm with your kids one day a week, and get
> most of your food for free in exchange. Moneywise
> it's a great deal.


You're so welcome sgc. I agree with everything you've expressed. I often use the analogy of the gas prices, we still have to get to where we're going in our automobiles and need to buy it. You could stretch it even further to say we (not us rawbies of course, lol) treat our cars better than our bodies. We woudn't put water in the gas tank, but we put crap in our bodies all of the time without even thinking twice. Same thing with the cost of organic produce. My grocery bill last week was $27.01. I received a tremendous of amount of organic produce that I'm still using. When I told a raw friend, she didn't believe me until she opened my fridge and looked on my counter top. I went in the food co-op at the crack of dawn when it first opened and it so happens they were offloading a lot of food that was close to spoilage. I got it at a tremendous discount. Things like this will happen to you all of the time if you open yourself up to it. I went in to get some fruit and greens and came out with loads of food. Sure I'm single and it's easier to feed just me. But I know it's possible to feed a family on organic produce, you just need to determine what is a priority for you. I know this will come in conflict with a lot of people and I don't want to undermine where someone is in their financial life and belief system, but I know it's possible. I've been there myself thinking I was lacking. I know the difference. You've gotta let go of the limitations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2008 04:42PM by rawangel.

All good stuff!! In my opinion,everyone has made good points & I am not vegan.
How does one go about findind a co-op in your area 4 organic products.As far as the CSA I will google it.

I am living off $600/mo. I keep the gas hot water heater on warm. Electric consumption is minimal, for fridge, fans, and computer. I have dial up access. No cell phone, just a land line. Older model cheap toyota that gets 50 mpg. Very little driving. I run around in little girls shorts and tshirts most of the time with old sneakers or flip flops.

I can't afford organic. I get conventional bok choi for $0.50/lb, oranges for $0.33/lb, romaine for $1/lb, etc. Just whatever is cheapest. The dogs get some of the produce + cooked beans from dried, cooked bulk grains, and a multi.

It's not enough to pay the property tax and maintenance. Thank the goddess that I don't have to pay rent or a mortgage. I am looking forward to a somewhat higher paying position where I can ride my bike to work, then I will dump my evil car, the evil car insurance, the evil maintenance, and the evil evil gasoline bill.

Anyways, I could use some of those "money becomes available" vibes. It will go to a good cause. My tummy!

after rent, gas/hydro/water, phone/internet i have about $500 for the three of us. i hand make a lot of our stuff, shop at secondhand stores for as much as possible and keep our lives very simple and we really do have everything we need. my mom gives the kids music lessons and pays for swimming lessons, we are blessed. but i don't see where in my budget there is any extra money. i'd be open to discovering some, one time i found $10 in a bag i bought at the thrift store that was fun.