If vegetables are not given to us, but fruit is, I understand the ethics of a pure Fruitarian diet and think it is quite beautiful. What about all the seeds we eat that 'ethically speaking' are our responsibility to plant/ spread. Are seeds digested? Will they sprout if they have gone through the body, then the waste is burried? Do you pick the seeds out of cucumbers, tomatoes, what about strawberries? Do you eat the white watermelon seeds but not the black? etc etc I am just pondering this idea. What do you think?

Here's what the New American Standard Bible has to say in Genesis 1-29: "Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you."

Opinion: Seeds have no/little karma attached to them. They are 'potential' life. I think humans are certainly designed to spread fruit & some vegetable seeds......and you do yourself a favor when you learn to cultivate some of your own foods by growing from seeds. Start out small and work your way up! Seeds pass, for the most part, only partially digested.....even when thoroughly masticated. I do not regularly eat seeds - and yes - some will often sprout when deposited from human waste (or other animal waste). I hope this answers some of your questions.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

What are your sources for this, who said not to eat seeds, who defined a "pure fruitarian diet"?

Why is fruitarian defined as "fruit only" because it has fruit in the name? Carnivores aren't restricted to meat only because they have "carn" in their name.

the great ape will pick seeds out of a grapefruit and eat them.
its a food source for them and mabey a good one for us.
the wild one knows whats best

All I can say is that I LOVE crunching on watermelon seeds... and for the 10 days I ate nothing but watermelon... plenty of seeds made it through perfectly fine.

Healthier, tastier fruit means the primates will be eating it more often, and be able to disperse the seed over greater distances.

There is great nutrition in seeds--and gorillas horde fruit pits when food supply is low. Hmmm.

I like to horde my pits and toss them in the forest. :O Maybe when I revisit in 20 years, there will be many peach trees... =D

Some of the seeds like apricot have the highly coveted vitamin B17. The seed is inside the apricot pit. Here's a list of foods containing B17: [www.vitaminb17.org]

davidzanemason Wrote:
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> Opinion: Seeds have no/little karma attached to
> them. They are 'potential' life.

hmm, this makes me think about the 'potential' life of unfertilized eggs. a neighbour offered us some of her free range chicken eggs the other day, they don't have a rooster so they aren't fertilized and are "vegetarian" according to her. and i think that this is so, but i'm not sure i want to eat them anyhow.
interesting to think about regardless.

sometimes i think that the amount of seeds or nuts one should eat would be however many one could gather and shell in one sitting. not very many when you look at it that way. that's alright though, i was reading the label on some swiss chard the other day and half a cup is 20% daily protein, i can easily eat 2 cups of chard at once. i don't think i need nuts or seeds for protein at all, or at least in very moderate quantities.

There are much bigger and more important moral questions in the world...
if you're really into ethics..IMO

Some people might even say nit picking moral extremism leads to this kind of nonsense:

[www.meta-religion.com]

"Jain Faith Jainism is a religion without a belief in God. The Jains defend their Atheism (non belief in God), by claiming, that neither perception, nor inference can proove the existence of God. The concept of Jainism is so extreme that they have a cotton muslin mask against their mouths to prevent any germs or insects (living beings) from entering the mouth. Generally they have their evening meal before sunset - again for the same reason."
----------
[www.hinduwebsite.com]
------------------
Jains take the concept of liberation to its extreme when they ultimately subject their bodies to self destruction through fasting and other austerities to attain liberation. Suicide is an acknowledged short cut to liberation in Jainism. It is prescribed as an alternative to extreme asceticism when one is unable to overcome attachment and passions. A monk is also allowed to kill himself after twelve years of ascetic practices to attain nirvana.

[www.meta-religion.com]

-----------

The Jain mendicants abide by a rigorous set of rules of conduct, where they must eat, sleep and even walk with full diligence and with an awareness that even walking kills several hundreds of minute beings. They generally brush the ground clear of insects before they tread; some wear a small mask to avoid taking in tiny insects; some monks do not wear even clothes and eat food only when it is not prepared for themselves.

[en.wikipedia.org]

-------------------------

Anyway one thing would seem common senseical, namely: that we weren't "meant" to eat avocado pits, like some folks with the new super power blenders like to do. But if it can be done someone will do it anyway. Live and let live.

The avocado pits that are not eaten are thrown in garbage and do not become avocado trees. If some have found ways to eat, it is for the best.

happyway Wrote:
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> There are much bigger and more important moral
> questions in the world...
> if you're really into ethics..IMO


sure there are but that doesn't preclude this discussion, does it? there is always space for stretching the mind with new concepts and ideas. this one is certainly interesting enough, to me at least.
there are many people who eat only fruit with seeds but no leaves (etc) so as not to kill plants for sustenance. it's not something that i do myself but i respect it and find it interesting none the less.

and blah, gross, eating avo pits! not for me. the compost heap gladly receives my food wastes rather than a landfill. i don't feel that any organic matter is wasted in our household, it all finds it's natural home.

<<sure there are but that doesn't preclude this discussion, does it? there is always space for stretching the mind with new concepts and ideas.>>

question of priorities...
like you know folks who treat their dogs better than other family members...
I'm sure you all know what i mean...

but as I said "live and let live" or "to each there own" or "one man's meat is another man's poison" etc.
and that's my second point, namely that MORALITY is a 2 edged sword, hard not to get cut when we play with it.
You know christian missionaries putting skirts on the natives, to say nothing of the inquisition and crusades, etc. It's so nice to know what's RIGHT.

---------------

<<this one is certainly interesting enough, to me at least.>>

from the original post:
<<Do you pick the seeds out of cucumbers, tomatoes, what about strawberries? Do you eat the white watermelon seeds but not the black? etc etc I am just pondering this idea. What do you think?>>

Is it interesting that it's interesting to you???
what can I say?
like the man said: "There's no accounting for Taste."

EZ rider Wrote:
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> "Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every
> plant yielding seed that is
> on the surface of all the earth, and every tree
> which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food
> for you."
True Fruitarianism requires eating Plants and
Fruit bearing Seed, without eating the Seed. In fact, Seed
is the 'Forbidden Fruit' mentioned in the Bible. When Man
ate Seed, it being so concentrated with nutrients, he was
'awakened' from his Pristine State.....WY

Actually I'm such a judgmental person at times, that I need to learn to forgive myself for being judgmental. After all it's only a defense mechanism isn't it?

[www.amazon.com]

So, if you were to eat a strawberry, AND eat the seeds, it's kind of like... a dietary onanism? O.o

^If seeds are nutrient-packed, it means a stronger animal to spread seeds further. No matter how hard you try, you can't chew them all (I'm thinking melons, berries). So, the ones that aren't chewed get fertilized... and carry on the lineage of the plant in distance places.

Again, I would say... look to primate behavior.

What about picking the fruit from a tree before it drops? :O

What about oral sex...for all you moralists?
That's what we need more laws! !
and more bible talk.
yup folks believe it or not there's little seeds in that there love juice ! !
Let's go back to the 1940's...
After all Alfred Kinsey was a tool of the Devil...an instrument of Satan

Some very on-point comments. The original post was a pursuit of information. I would be fascinated to learn more about Jainism actually , thank you coco for your thoughts re: stretching the mind. I would hope that someone who isn't interested in exploring this topic, leave be the ones who are. Though, I see your perspectives as well, Happyway.

Wheatgrass Yogi--delving farther into EZ rider's comment... that is very interesting. I do not affiliate with the Bible as it is interpreted today, but do not discount the moral lessons still deciferable (sp?) in its text. Would a true/pure fruitarian eat any part of a plant that is not the fruit? What is the ethical reasoning, based on your opinion or the knowledge you may have of it?

What about this thought, humans were designed to spread seed, therefore we eat only fruits which the seeds are easily removed. Meaning not berries, more peaches?

David Z M- interesting.. small amount of karma. Perhaps if one beleives that, the next step would be either avoidance which is where HW chimed in with not taking it overboard, or acceptance, and attention to spreading all possible other seed.
Its kind of like, here I will feed you, now do your part to maintain the balance.

Primates... do they plant their seeds intentionally.., or eat all of them. I have never heard of apes cultivating food (please share if you have). I understand both sides of the primate discussion, and happily sit on the fence for those debates.

See you eat the seeds and then you "plant" them when you BM. If you BMed like you would in nature, then you would do it on the ground like an animal and the seeds would grow. Now it's just a waste of the seeds when we flush the toilet.

i never see any seeds in my @#$%&, hmm.
now the baby, well that's a different story. i could just plant most of her diapers right in the ground! actually, we just buried her placenta out at the cottage under grandma's tree where little's got planted 7 years ago and we sank a bunch of cherry pits too. wonder if any of them will grow?

A fruitarian diet would include the eating of seeds, as fruit contains seeds.

Man and other creatures are obviously meant to eat the seeds, as eating the seeds, then expelling them from their bottoms into the ground (ideally :-) then spreads the seeds, ie symbiotic relationship - the plant provides food for the man, and the man spreads the seeds.

I know the Bible (at least on diet) well. It's amazing (well, maybe not...) how ten men can take a verse in the Bible and interpret it to say ten different things!

debbietook Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> I know the Bible (at least on diet) well. It's
> amazing (well, maybe not...) how ten men can take
> a verse in the Bible and interpret it to say ten
> different things!
The Bible interpretation of Seed being the
'Forbidden Fruit' comes from Johnny Lovewisdom. He thought
all seed, being too concentrated in Protein, was unfit for the human
Diet.
I say use what others think to solidify where you stand.....WY

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2008 10:06AM by Wheatgrass Yogi.

What about the ethics of seedless fruit?

I think this is most immoral, in that it violates the symbiotic relationship of feeding/spreading seed with nature--and that seedless fruit is PATENTED!!!

phantom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
-and that seedless fruit is
> PATENTED!!!

is seedless fruit a monsanto product? i`ve often wondered how they make seedless fruit seedless

The main concern here must be how not to harm a plant senselessly and excessively. A seed is not a plant yet, it is a POSSIBILITY to be. Many seeds are intended to be eaten, with a hope that few of them will be brought in a favorable surroundings.
So there is freedom of choice for us, because we decided to care about it, unlike maybe other beings.

PS: Some vegetables are fruits, btw.

Perhaps the subject will be changed to: -----Ethics of using Toilets...

Or, like you said Phantom: Ethics of eating seedless fruit

----Thanks Wheatgrass Yogi for your words: use what others think to solidify where you stand.

Adam and Eve consumed the fruit of the tree of good and evil; it wasn't an apple, it wasn't a seed, or any other common food. This was a tree planted in the Garden of Eden that they were expressly forbidden to eat of. This was a single tree that no longer exists on this earth since the Garden is no longer here. To say that what they ate were seeds in general and it was the protein content that "awakened them" is extremely questionable. They were to refrain from consuming of this tree to show their faith in God to lead them, eating of it showed that they no longer held his Word to be law. They defied God's wish that they remain pure and unsullied by willfully taking on the burden of knowledge. It was the act of defiance that tore things apart, not eating too much protein.

God gave us "every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed." Seeds are perfectly acceptable as part of God's initial fruitarian diet. This is what He gave us to eat.

A couple of you mentioned the Bible, and I feel like
Preaching. I guess we all have a 'forbidden fruit'. It's different
for everyone. It doesn't have to be Food. Could it be
masquerading (Satan) as Healthy? Deep down we know.....WY

the bible is full of metaphores, i hardly think the forbidden fruit means an actual fruit here, hello. missing the message a bit i think.

coco Wrote:
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> hello. missing the message a bit i think.
We don't all get the same message. I was trying
to link 'forbidden fruit' and 'seed' as being the same.
That's Ethical enough for me not to eat it. That would
apply to Sprouts as well. Do what you feel is right.....WY