I know a lot of folk here grow their own produce (even if it's herbs and sprouts, it's all good!).

So what's been your finest moment as a gardener/homegrower? Successfully grown a melon? Managed to do something with an avocado pit? A fig tree? A lemon tree? Grown something despite all odds?

My grandparents have a fig tree that had a tonne of figs on, and we live in a cool climate (and they keep it outdoors) so I'm especially proud of them for this tough little tree they have nurtured!

I haven't grown anything yet, BUT, I'm proud of my organic compost. It' starting to look like humus. You wouldn't believe how many grubs are in my compost pile breaking down everything.

Once my compost is ready, I'm going to use it for wheatgrass and some herbs.

Okay, suspended, Spill the beans. What kind of fig tree do you grandparents have and what state do they live in. How do they take of of the fig tree in the winter, etc.

I just love fresh figs and by the time I discovered they grew in Phoenix, I moved away to OH. So, pls let me know what kind of tree I should buy. Thanks! Therese

I think that the two defining moments for me were:

First, when my indeterminate Big Boy tomato plants grew 5 feet above their 6 foot tall concrete reinforcing wire cages..I finally had to cut the entire tops of the plants off with an electric hedge trimmer to direct the plant's energy into the tomatoes instead of just growing taller..

Second, was when I pulled & ate the first carrot that was not forked or crooked..The taste of an heirloom carrot grown in compost rich, friable soil truly cannot be put into words..The difference between a supermarket carrot & a home-grown one is light years apart..

Compost truly is a wondrous thing!!..
Bruce

sigh. i killed an entire jar of lentil sprouts by drowning. they are on the counter right now and that is the extent of my endeavors lately. it's not a proud moment for me.

I have a grapefruit tree that I tried to get rid of in my pre-raw days. One spring day I cut off all the branches, leaving only the thick center trunk. Since all the bark fell off of it, I knew it was dead. (I was taught that the way to kill a tree is to cut and peel off a strip of bark all the way around it.) After it dried out, I was planning to uproot it and chop it up to use in my smoker. Lo and behold, the tree sprouted new leaves and branches the next winter. I called it "The grapefruit tree from hell." Now that I'm into them, I eat the delicious grapefruits produced by that tree. It may be the grapefruit tree from hell, but its fruit is made in heaven.

flash

Hmmm...my first square foot garden was my pride and joy. During my early days, I ate plenty of fresh spinach, Bright Lights Swiss Chard & Buttercrunch lettuce! Ha! ha! I also had wondeful carrots (I liked the little round ones)...and fantastic radishes (I highly recommend radishes & thier greens for beginning gardeners...as the turnaround is quite fast....and the whole plant is edible.)

-During the summer, I have had great response from a variety of pepper plants....sweet & hot. I have also loved growing sunflowers.

-No luck with melons....of ANY kind.....after several attempts. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong! Ha! ha!

-Sugar snap peas have also been pretty successful...although you need many vines to produce a large crop.

-Tomatoes have been so-so.....and I'm still learning about this.

-Only a little luck with Brussels Sprouts and Kale.

-No luck obtaining bananas from banana plants in Central Florida yet! Some better luck with Papaya Trees - which grow rather quickly and well.

-Just some of my experiences.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Oooh I like these stories! There's something very empowering about 'growing your own'!

Sprouting for the first time is amazing when you're a total newbie to growing food. It's the coolest thing when you see the little tails appear!!!

My best moment so far was caring enough for my grapefruit tree and bringing it through into new growth after it looked like it was going to die. When I bought it, the leaves were wilted and withered, now they're strong and more glossy. Yayyy!

life101- well, I live in the UK and I'm sad to say I have no idea what kind of fig tree it is, only that the fruits were healthy and edible last time they appeared- and that there was lots of them! Next time I visit my grandparents, I shall do some digging... (excuse the pun!). They have so much luck growing things! The plot that it's growing on, my grand-dad used to grow roses on many moons ago, and he used to use fresh horse manure down there. Not sure if that has anything to do with this strapping young lad of a fig tree

DZM

I don't think that Brussels Sprouts will grow very well in Florida..

All of the Brassica family of plants originated in cold climates..Kale & Brussels Sprouts especially benefit from frost to turn some of the starches in them into sugars..

Kale can & probably is grown in Florida during your winters, as long as the daytime temps don't get too high..

The rule of thumb for both plants is not to harvest them until they have overnighted several times with exposure to temps right at the freezing mark..

Severe frost will eventually damage kale leaves..

I know several people that leave their Brussels Sprouts in the garden with the plant bent over to rest on the ground (w/o uprooting it) under a heavy blanket of straw until they are ready to eat them..

Bruce

I've seen the word 'heirloom' pop up a few times. Where do you guys get heirloom seeds from?

The below listed links should be of interest..

Gardener's Supply [www.gardeners.com]
Peaceful Valley Farm & Garden Supply Company [www.groworganic.com]
Henry Leuthardt Nurseries [www.henryleuthardtnurseries.com]
Main Street Seed & Supply [www.mainstreetseedandsupply.com]
Oregon Tilth [www.tilth.org]
Seeds of Change [www.seedsofchange.com]
Seeds Trust [www.seedstrust.com]
Snow Pond Farm Supply [www.snow-pond.com]
Trees of Antiquity [www.treesofantiquity.com]
New Dimension Seed [www.newdimensionseed.com]
Tainong Seeds [www.tainongseeds.com]
Agrohaitai [www.agrohaitai.com]
Evergreen Seeds [www.evergreenseeds.com]
Polyface Farms [www.polyfacefarms.com]
One Green World [www.onegreenworld.com]
Plants for a Future [www.pfaf.org]
Permaculture Institute [www.permaculture.org]
Renee's Garden Seeds [www.reneesgarden.com]
Johnny's Selected Seeds [www.johnnysseeds.com]
Seed Savers Exchange [www.seedsavers.org]
Market Farm Implement [www.marketfarm.com]
Earth Tools [www.earthtoolsbcs.com]
Spear & Jackson [www.spear-and-jackson.com]
Snow & Nealley [www.snowandnealley.com]
Rittenhouse Tools [www.rittenhouse.ca]
Bulldog Tools [www.bulldogtools.co.uk]
Radius Garden Tools [www.radiusgarden.com]
Red Pig Tools [www.redpigtools.com]
Seago International (USA reference for Walkover Sprayers) [www.allenseago.com]
Walkover Sprayers [www.walkoversprayers.com]
Corona Hand Tools [www.coronaclipper.com]

Bruce

Thanks for all the links Bruce. Wow an eleven foot tomato. I have only seen those in the book: How to Grow World Record Tomatoes: A Guinness Champion Reveals His All-Organic Secrets
by Charles Wilber

I have worms in my basement to recycle kitchen scraps,
and a compost pile out back. I live in New Jersey and I hope to get a Fall garden in soon. Beets and lettuce. Maybe kale, and kohlrabi too. Last year we a good crop of sugar snap peas.

Hey everyone, how in the world do you all grow ANYTHING with out problems?....I live in Florida and everything I grow seems doomed...

Tried to grow rosemary on my kitchen windowseal and one day it it was suddenly covered with nat-like bugs including a spider!

Tried to grow tomatoes outside and the rats kept eating every semi-red tomato!

I want to grow peppers, tomatoes, strawberries and some fresh herbs.

HOW can I successfully keep out bugs, spiders, rats, squirells...etc.?

PLEASE advise everyone : (

Hanging pots are the obvious choice for tomatoes and herbs and small veggies. I wouldn't worry about the spiders...heh..heh. They don't eat plants.

-I live in Florida, and I have had good success with raised square foot gardens. A cheap way to protect such a garden is to buy a roll of galvanized steel fencing wire at home depot......and six stakes to stake off your 'fence'. Just snip the wire to surround your garden......stake off the corners.....and two more stakes at the end to form your 'gate'. Now you've got a garden that is raised off the ground, and protected from casual predators.

-There are other methods, including building an actual 'table' and making a raised bed that is literally at waist height. This is often done for older folks....or folks that do not wish to bend over when tending the garden. Such a garden is rather hard for most predators to get to.

-Just some tips.

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Thanks David, I like the idea of making a raised table because I do have severe back issues and bending over is very painful. Should I still wrap wire around the table (and around the top) to keep the rats from my tomatoes?

However, I'm trying to picture your first idea...how exactly is it "raised"? I can picture wrapping the wire around the stakes in the ground, but still having trouble picturing it raised.

Sorry...

suspendedindefinitely Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen the word 'heirloom' pop up a few times.
> Where do you guys get heirloom seeds from?


Hello Suspendedindefinitely, Native Seeds/SEARCH they have over 2000`accessions `of traditional crops grown by Apache, Chemehve, Cocopah, Gila River Pima, `Guarijio, Havasupai, Hopi, Maricopa, Mayo, Mojave, Mountain Pima Navajo, Paiute
Puebloan, Tarahumara, Tohono Oodham, and Yaqui farmers. they have a special `policy for native farmers and gardeners. free
The seeds from native seed search are some of the best you can find, and will `blow your mind on how good they are.
Back to the garden, its time

That sounds very cool riverhousebill! Will investigate! Thanks

The standard 'Square Foot Garden' (see book 'Square Foot Gardening') is just a 4' X 4' box (usually done with concrete blocks or plywood) on the ground......that is then divided into 1' X 1' squares with colored string or rope. The ground area is cleaned of weeds and debris....then the box is built.....and then fresh soil is placed on top....up to the level of the top of the walls. In each 1' X 1' block, you plant a certain number of radishes, tomato plants, lettuces, carrots or whatever. People often then plant various herbs that repel insects in the holes of the concrete block wall. The whole thing is rather pretty....organized....and productive. The wooden stakes are driven into the outside corners.....with two extra for the opening in the fence. The fencing is then just bent around the square area....and nailed to the stakes. Easy.....and not expensive. Having your own compose bin nearby to add material when preparing the garden is especially useful.

-The table idea can be done in a number of ways. The most straightforward is to build a table of plywood to spec with a circular saw and drill (then fill with fresh garden soil as before). Another way would be to find a cheap table, and then find a way to raise the perimeter with whatever is available or can be scrounged and cut to the right length and secured. 4 pieces of good wood turned into a frame could certainly work.

-Just some tips. Check out the book!

[www.amazon.com]

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Just be aware that any table-like structure that is used for gardening will have the sun & rain act upon it just like a smaller pot..In essence it is just a large container..The soil will dry out faster than it would if it was connected to the earth..Watering will be critical at times, especially if you are not able to be present during the hottest parts of the day..Not insurmountable problems, just things to think about..All fixable with modern technology..

If the space was available & I had severe back pain (if you explain your ability to bend & your range of motion, perhaps we could offer more explicit solutions?) I would want a series of large raised beds built in the Square Foot fashion that measured 4 ft. wide x 20 ft. long x 24-30 in. tall internal dimensions..A 100 square foot garden design is the most practical as it allows the gardener to apply amendments & fertilizers using commonly accepted ratios..

The walls could be constructed from any number of materials..The least expensive, although the shortest-lived would be wood..Take some advice from someone who has "Been there & done that" that even pressure-treated wood will not last for very long when exposed to the incredibly biologically active soil that is in a good organic garden..Just 4 short years after construction, I could poke a screwdriver through some of the PT boards that I used to construct my 9'3" x 29'3" x 24" Square Foot raised bed garden..

Another inexpensive material, but one that a person with a bad back would require help in constructing, would be broken pieces of concrete from buildings & sidewalks that are being torn down or up..The advantages of busted concrete are it's ability to heat up early in the spring (thereby allowing the gardener to plant earlier than if in ground), retaining heat longer in the fall (thereby extending the season for several days or possibly weeks), & if constructed in the dry-wall fashion of a stone wall it will offer superior drainage to virtually all other constructed-wall raised bed wall material options..

For a person with a bad back I would want the walls of the bed to be wide enough so that a person could comfortably sit on the top surface of the wall..This would allow you to rest your back & still accomplish weeding, fertilizing, harvesting tasks, etc..

Hope this gives you some ideas..

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2008 12:15AM by baltochef.

Some additional links for heirloom seeds & interesting garden sites are:

Bountiful Gardens [www.bountifulgardens.org]
Salt Spring Seeds [www.saltspringseeds.com]
Ronnigers Potato Farm [www.ronnigers.com]
Boundry Garlic Farm [www.garlicfarm.ca]
Southern Exposure Seed Exchange [www.southernexposure.com]
Heirloom Seeds [www.heirloomseeds.com]

And the link to:

Native Seeds/ SEARCH [www.nativeseeds.org]

Regarding the large number of links in my earlier post, as well as these on this post..I myself, another gardener, or another farmer that I personally know have dealt with all of these companies..I organically gardened for 15 years & purchased seeds & supplies from a wide variety of companies..In the case of some of the larger companies you must sift through the chaff in order to get to the wheat (heirloom seeds)..I purchased from a lot of these places before I ever had any exposure to the raw lifestyle..

Bruce

I would never use Pressure Treated wood where it can contact soil used for food crops.
Painting the wood before hand with marine varnish would be preferable, I believe.

[www.wheeler-con.com]

[www.epa.gov]

Creosote will kill seedlings

this looks interesting: CedarShield Deck-Dock and Fence

[www.cedarcide.com]

[www.beloblog.com]

[www.organicgardening.com]

Many gardeners have used treated wood to frame raised beds. But as recent research has demonstrated, arsenic in the treatment leaches into soil and is taken up by plants' roots. So what can you use to frame garden beds instead?

# Use a naturally rot-resistant wood such as cedar.

# Trex lumber is made from recycled plastic and wood scraps, comes in standard sizes and can be found at hardware stores and lumber yards.

# Use ordinary, untreated lumber to frame your beds. In most climates, it will last three to five years before rotting, just about the time for you to replenish the soil and rebuild the bed.

# Make your own wood preservative with a recipe from the USDA Forest Products Laboratory. You'll find a link to this recipe in Related Articles (located in the top left hand corner of this page).

# Or, skip the frames altogether. We think there's something simply appealing about beds that gently slope down to the paths between them.

Non-Toxic Wood Preservative Recipe
The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Products Laboratory has developed this recipe for preserving lumber used aboveground (such as for fences and picnic tables). The treatment is also safe for wood to be used in the ground?that is, it won't leach toxic chemicals into your garden soil?and the wood will last longer than if left untreated.

Here's the recipe (and please be sure to follow it carefully):
# Melt 1 ounce of parrafin wax in a double boiler (DO NOT heat over a direct flame).
# Off to the side, carefully place slightly less than a gallon of solvent (mineral spirits, paint thinner or turpentine at room temperature) in a bucket, then slowly pour in the melted parrafin, stirring vigorously.
# Add 3 cups exterior varnish or 1.5 cups boiled linseed oil to the mix, stirring until the ingredients are blended. When it cools, you can dip your lumber into this mixture or brush it onto the wood.

I've made virtually every possible mistake there is when gardening via raised beds with constructed sides..

In the future, if the land is available, I will not put constructed sides around my raised beds without an overwhelming reason to do so..

IMO. constructing a raised bed for a person that is physically challenged in some way is one of the two reasons that I would do so..

The second reason is to make a bed for a young child ages 3-10 so as to introduce gardening to them..Kids have short attention spans, & often need the structure of a constructed raised bed to contain & direct their enthusiasm..IMO, the original 4 ft. x 4 ft. x 6-8" Square Foot raised bed garden design is ideal for this purpose..

I stand by my above statement that wood is a poor choice for the sides of a constructed raised bed..

From a green standpoint it is a poor choice, regardless of the prevailing views on sustainable forestry..

All wood rots, period..I have had untreated Southern Yellow Pine rot out in as little as single season here in Maryland..I have had untreated redwood rot out in as little as two seasons here in MD..And, as I stated above, I have had pressure-treated Southern Yellow Pine rot out in as little as 3-4 seasons here in MD..

Old growth Southern Cypress, Ironwood, & Osage Orange are the most rot-resistant American woods, with old-growth Redwood coming pretty close..Modern plantation grown redwood is quite soft & not very rot-resistant, IMO..Other hardwoods, such as White Oak, Hard Rock Sugar Maple, Apple, Hickory, Walnut, Cherry, Butternut, & Pecan are also much more rot-resistant..Unfortunately, all of these woods are quite expensive, with old growth Southern Cypress leading the list..Many tropical hardwoods are as rot-resistant, if not more so, than cypress..Unfortunately, they are also quite expensive..Most of these woods are aimed at the furniture market..Using them for an outdoor raised bed garden seems wasteful to me..With the exception of plantation teak from Malaysia, few of these woods are being grown in any way that can be called sustainable..Most American trees that are being plantation grown are softwoods being grown for speed, not for the quality of the wood..And, softwoods are very poor choices for a raised bed garden..

IMO, pressure treated wood is bad for the environment in every way..When I used it in the past I was unaware of it's shortcomings..About the time that I realized that the PT boards used to construct my raised beds were deteriorating was when I first became aware of the arsenic leaching issues with PT wood..I soon got rid of most of it..

Plastic imitation wood does not score any higher in my book than PT wood..It might be convenient, but I am skeptical of all plastics..I am attempting to reduce my use & consumption of plastics in all facets of my life..I don't want plastics in contact with biologically active soil any more than I do PT wood..

Regarding the recipe for the supposedly non-toxic preservative..Paraffin is made from petroleum..Varnish has so many toxic ingredients in it that I'm not even going to get into listing the individual ingredients..Any of the solvents listed in the recipe are toxic..So, where is the advantage over arsenic-based pressure treating chemical compounds??..There are none, IMO..

Regarding the need to replenish the soil in a raised bed with constructed sides..

If a gardener takes care of the soil in a raised bed with the use of compost, green manures, rock powders, crop rotation, mulching, etc; there should be no reason that the soil should need to be replaced..

I think that the use of the word replenish in your sentence regarding the use of untreated lumber for a raised bed is incorrect..The sense that I an getting from this statement is that you mean that when the untreated wood rots the bed will need to be de-constructed, and the soil replaced & or made whole again somehow..

Replenishing the soil during the growing season with compost, crop rotations, & mulches; and during the off-season with rock powders & green manures is essential to any successful organic garden, raised bed or not..If these things are not done then the soil will gradually become depleted..Diseases & insects will begin to cause many problems..

This can happen in as little as a single season..Been there & done that..Had to learn the hard way..

Bruce

Bruce thank you for pointing out the dangers of the alternatives. It was not my sentence though--it was a quote from the info at the posted link. You seem to have thought it thru more thoroughly than I have. I suppose only a science experiment would show how much the various chemicals leach, and who wants to do that? I have never used Arsenic treated wood in a garden, and it does sound the scariest, though as you point out the others could be as bad.

If on the ground, if one can afford it, in a small garden, brick might be better.
If labour, etc. is not an issue one could cast concrete enclosures.

Everything seems to be a choice, with up and down sides. Rotto-tilling which can do many wonderful things may also compact soil below 8", kill worms, and disturb the layers of the microscopic soil ecology.

The microscopic life in the soil is awesome, See for example: [cropsoil.psu.edu]

QUOTE FROM [www.blm.gov]

QUOTE START
Mycorrhizal fungi colonize the roots of many plants. Mycorrhizal fungi don’t harm the plant; on the contrary, they develop a "symbiotic" relationship that helps the plant be more efficient at obtaining nutrients and water. In return, the plant provides energy to the fungus in the form of sugars. END QUOTE

This link is fun, it has very short movies, 2 of which show Mycorrhizal fungi.
[www.agron.iastate.edu]

links about no-till farming - I'm gonna add to my compost pile today.

[www.ask.com]

If using wood for one of your two reasons an alternative might be to oil it, possibly with mineral oil, or a "vegetable" oil--I have no idea what the cost would be...and or course it wouldn't be permanent. I wonder how it would work if re-oiled seasonally.

For someone like ksandberg2002, the least expensive & least labor intensive way to achieve a raised bed garden that would have walls wide enough with a top surface that could be sat upon would probably be cast cement blocks such as are used to build foundation walls for homes..

I saw a program on TV about 2-3 years ago profiling the homes of celebrities..The one that sticks in my mind was the home & garden of Gary Busey..I cannot recall a single thing about his house, but his backyard & garden are another story..He had a large number (at least 10-15 that were visible in the video) of tall raised beds that were constructed with mortar & cement blocks..Each measured approximately 4' x 20' x 30"..He grew a substantial amount of the produce that he ate in this very large backyard raised bed garden..

The only real problem with concrete block construction is that it is ugly, fuggly if you ask me..If you can live with ugly, then it's a good, long-lasting way to construct a raised bed..

If I was going to make raised beds out of concrete blocks I would make the inside dimensions measure 30" wide x 34' long x 30" high..I would start the first row of blocks 5" below surface grade so that the seat height would be approximately 25" off the ground..This is the approximate height of a standard chair's seat..

With a 30" I.D. a gardener could cultivate the beds by straddling the bed with one foot on either wall & using the 27" wide broadfork available from Johnny's Selected Seeds.. See the link at:

[www.johnnyseeds.com]

A 30" x 34' I.D. raised bed would give the gardener 102 square feet of growing space, close enough to the 100 sq. ft. that is standard for measuring & applying amendments..

I would top the walls off with smooth stone pavers such as granite, instead of concrete pavers..Concrete pavers are too rough to sit on comfortably, especially if one has a physical disability..Stone pavers are much more expensive than are concrete ones, but a whole lot more comfortable to sit on..Not to mention that they have little tendency to snag one's clothing, unlike concrete pavers..

A 3" wide band of copper tape would be affixed to the walls under the seat to prevent slugs & snails from entering the beds..Slugs & snails LOVE the space between the walls of a raised bed & the soil & will spend their daylight hours comfortably there..Their slime & the copper create an electrical current that they will not cross as it upsets their central nervous system..Using beer traps & hand picking any slugs or snails that got into the garden during construction will eventually eliminate them from the raised beds..

Of course, this is not a low cost way to set up a garden..But, for someone with a truly bad back or other similar limiting disability; it might be one of the few ways to effectively garden..

Sinking 3 foot sections of 3 ft. to 4 ft. diameter cast concrete drain pipe into the ground would be another alternative..The only drawback would be no seating..Although a circular wooden seat could be constructed by a good carpenter..Legs could be constructed that could be cantilevered from the outside edge of the seat & extending downwards to the ground at the base of the concrete drain pipe's wall..

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2008 02:05AM by baltochef.