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since going raw, I feel so much less restrictive in my eating

I know what you mean. Before raw I used to have to watch everything I ate or the old saying "a moment on the lips and years on the hips" would pack on the pounds and inches. Now that I am a raw vegan eater I can eat without concern because my body uses the raw foods for energy and dosn't store it as "love handles" ;-)

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whats wrong with eating fat...?

Nothing.

egJames, are you eating truly raw cashews? Just checking, as when 'cooked' two years ago I found shelled cashews very addictive!

But I don't find the same with raw cashews.

Shelled cashews bought in supermarkets/health food shops have, prior to shell removal, been steamed, cooked in hot oil (200 C), then hot air-dried (70 C) - in other words well and truly cooked, with all the toxins, changed fats, and addiction potential that carries with it.

Apologies if you have been eating the truly raw variety, but hope this info will be useful to anyone who hadn't been aware.

EZ Rider-- following up on what you said, I should express my extreme gratitude in discovering the raw vegan lifestyle. When I explain it to people, they always say, "I could never do that, I love my ___ too much." But what I can't convey to them is how *free* I feel now. Even with my slip ups (not eating cooked, but just too much fat), the fact that my body is much more forgiving than it used to be. And I'm still losing weight, so that must be a good sign!

Debbie- honestly, I don't know if they're raw or not. Unfortunately, I'm at the mercy of Whole Foods' ethics. While I love the store, I get my 'raw cashews' in a bulk bin right next to 'raw almonds.' (And we all know about THOSE....) so, it says raw, I can only trust that they are until I learn something different. They are not in shells, if that means anything...

What Whole Foods means when they label a nut "raw" is that it hasn't been "roasted" in oil. It doesn't mean that it's fresh or unheated.

The problem with eating Fat is that it leads to eating too
much Fat. That leads to Laziness. The energy of Fruit and
Greens is what it's all about. Minimize your Fat intake.....WY

.

Actually...some fats give you energy, WY, like omega-3s and 6s found in avocados..It's not all bad. A deep frier is a different story

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually...some fats give you energy, WY, like
> omega-3s and 6s found in avocados..It's not all
> bad.
Okay, but I'm just going by how I feel. I
do Best without it.....WY

Fat withdrawal?!? Yes, it seems that I am experiencing a similar feeling of 'lack' since I decided to cut out nuts and nut butters from my diet that I felt when I cut cooked bread/rice out. Even thought it was vegan/gluten-free bread, for about 3 days I was feeling weirded out by just eating fruits and veggies. I feel the same with not eating as much fat... but I'll get past it. Mostly, I was inspired by what WY said, "The problem with eating Fat is that it leads to eating too much Fat. That leads to Laziness. The energy of Fruit and Greens is what it's all about. Minimize your Fat intake.....WY" So, day two of the latest adventure!

I'm paranoid of fat, but there are thngs that help me stay raw being a newbie like the lemon tahini dressing recipe I found last night. I thin it and use it very sparigly on the side. But it really help me break my aversion to greens since I started raw. I'm happy. :-)


WendySmiling in Oklahoma
www.16weeks2health.blogspot.com
12/17/10.......240/155/125

There are people in the world who's traditional diet is of mostly coconuts, therefore, their fat intake is higher than most average Americans, yet they are healthy and lean. The fat in Coconut is turned into energy as it enters the body, instead of being stored as fat. And due to the medium chain fatty acids, which the body breaks down, where one component is lauric acid, the body's immune system is greatly improved. I do not agree with a low fat or no-fat diet. The brain cells are mostly composed of fat, and therefore coconut is brain food as well. Good quality fats are important such as coconut. Has anyone read the book, "The Coconut Miracle," by Bruce Fife? It is truely a wonderful book to read.

Kalin, we can't ignore the fact that people in parts of the world where large quantities of coconut are consumed are also living an entirely different lifestyle than the typical American. Often, we humans fall prey to the fallacy of equating correlation with causation. In this instance, the coconuts may have little or nothing to do with their good health, and their fitness level and outdoor lifestyle may in fact be aiding them in overcoming the potentially negative effects of a diet high in fat. They may be climbing the trees each day to get their coconuts, something that most Westerners would be incapable of doing.
Also, the idea that the brain is composed of fat, and therefore fat is brain food, is also a logical fallacy. We don't eat bone to create bone and we don't eat meat to create meat. Likewise, eating fat with the idea that the brain is made of fat, doesn't specifically feed the brain. Our body is capable of creating fat from other foods, and fruits and vegetables contain ample quantities of all of the essential fatty acids without specifically seeking them out in overtly fatty foods.
The idea that one needs fatty foods in their diet for fitness and health is one that has been disproved in many ways, but also simply by the existence of individual such as myself who enjoy degrees of fitness well beyond that of probably 99 percent of people on this board, on a diet consisting of very minimal amounts of fat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2008 07:37PM by doghouse reilly.

cocoa_nibs Wrote:
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> Eating too much fat makes me feel terrible.
>
> When I am PMSsy I crave it liek crazy (sesame
> seeds, coconut, cocoa nibs). Why is that?


Because in the days before our periods, magnesium levels drop... the foods listed above are high-magnesium foods. Spinach is also high in magnesium. If you wanted to you could substitute spinach for those pms chocolate cravings. PMS = magnesium deficiency symptoms.

This has been my problem. Too much worry, no peace. It's lead to going back and forth between raw and cooked junk food. I guess I need to be simplistic and just calm down about it all.



debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi pineapple girl
>
> There's nothing wrong with eating fat, IF it's
> raw. We NEED at least a little fat in our diets.
>
> There's a LOT of debate as to how MUCH raw fat you
> should eat, and I'm not going to enter into it
> here.
>
>>
> The problem with worrying too much about what
> sorts of foods one should or shouldn't eat WITHIN
> the raw food diet is that it can (note CAN - not
> saying this applies to everyone) all start to feel
> too restrictive, and set up feelings of
> anxiety...which can lead to the whole thing
> backfiring.
>
> I say have a ball on raw and eat anything you
> fancy! Perhaps have a low-fat month, then a
> higher-fat month, or vice versa, and see if you
> honestly feel any different.
>
> Love
>
> Debbie Took
> www.rawforlife.co.uk


WendySmiling in Oklahoma
www.16weeks2health.blogspot.com
12/17/10.......240/155/125

I think the healthiest fat to eat is found in fresh raw avocados. Approximately 75% of an avocado's calories come from fat, most of which is monounsaturated fat. [ [en.wikipedia.org] ]. The info on monounsaturated fats [ [en.wikipedia.org] ] is interesting.

A very good post, Doghouse, with which i heartily agree.

Please don't assume that we are all not very fit though. I like to think of myself as extremely fit.

best wishes
Philippa (marathon girl - if I can call myself girl at 46!!!)

"Fatty foods allow you to not feel. Their digestion takes so much energy that emotions and feelings can be sedated/suppressed."

That I suppose is one take on the issue. I found an interesting article about the connection between fat consumption as it relates to copper and zinc in the body. Apparently a very low fat diet, either vegetarian or not tends to favor a higher amount of copper relative to zinc.

Amoung the effects mentioned is emotionality, rather over emotionality of people with a large amount of copper. Proper ratio of zinc to copper allows for more level brain function with higher functions such as love and compassion. Another problem mentioned is increased problems with digestion in general.8/1/1 sounds far too low to be healthy. I am also wondering if anyone would be able to obtain enough fat soluble vitamins on such a diet.

I agree with EZ rider about avocados.

Bryan stated the following:

"Fatty foods allow you to not feel. Their digestion takes so much energy that emotions and feelings can be sedated/suppressed."

I'm not so sure I agree with that, I felt a lot of feelings of sadness today, I could hardly keep them to myself at work today. I know its probably not healthy to supress feelings, but the work place isn't always the best place to display strong emotions. I am curious about how you came to believe this idea?

..emotions and feelings are not suppressed by fatty foods. The person chooses to suppress them. Everyone out there who eats fat when they're sad is suppressing a feeling by throwing their concentration into eating -- the fat is not sending a message to the brain that says, "it's ok, you have fat in you and now you are happy."

There is science behind what chewing does and what fat does in people that's connected to brain studies and is verryy interesting. I mean chewing in general takes us back to the suckling stage. Fat is something that attracts the tongue because it has more calories and is better for survival purposes. So some kind of good mood is going to come out of suckling and fattiness at the same time...but in no way is it directly numbing a person to not feel. I just believe that is a little over the top to say.

I used to think a lot of the restrictions recommended for raw foodists were unnecessary; for instance, “proper food combining,” or “watch your fat intake”...that is until I became pregnant. I had been raw before that, on and off, and when I was "on" I ate whatever raw foods I wanted and felt fine. Green smoothies tasted great, I ate avocados all the time, I lost weight, and felt fantastic (other than my extremities were very cold). Once I became pregnant, I discovered that I could no longer consume raw foods in the way I was previously eating them.

I have a theory (I have a few of those), that what really matters in our diet and health is made evident when a woman is pregnant . For example, in my first trimester, I suddenly noticed horrible smells in the house and had terrible morning sickness that totally eased when I left our home for a few days--then we discovered an awful mold problem. Since my body wasn't totally "clean" I was nauseous ALL the time and NOTHING made me feel better, though I think the mold played a big factor. I tried eating little bits of ANYTHING, even meat, which gave me heart palpitations. I finally realized all I could eat was plain fruit or veggies.

Once I got my appetite back and we removed the mold, I had a hard time getting back to all raw, because I could finally EAT again. I have now been 98 percent raw for the last month. For the first week or so, I ate a lot of salads and not too much fat. After eating a combination of raw and cooked vegan foods (50/50) for several months prior to going all raw, I felt good and light. But then I started getting HUNGRY.

After the first week or so I began eating a lot more fat: guacamole, raw ice cream made from coconut meat, foods with nut pates...and my digestion MAJORLY slowed down (one incomplete bowel movement each day). For a week or so I kept his up and started gaining weight beyond what I needed to (in my legs and face and I think because my bowels were full). My baby is almost due and I know that impacts my digestion, but I started reducing the fat and eating more FRESH fruits, greens, and roughage, and my feelings have improved. I don't feel as groggy after a meal and my bowels are starting to move (much easier, a few times a day).

I should note that the cashews I've been using in my nut dishes could be causing the problems since I hear they aren't really raw. But I don't eat too many of those...the ice cream and avocados and other raw soaked nuts and nut milks are my main sources of fat.

Food combining is a big deal for me now. I don't know what to think about green smoothies, because they make me very nauseous. I used to be a big proponent of them, and my husband still enjoys them. But others have insisted they are not good examples of food combining. My smoothies are made with greens, bananas, apples, agave, and a little bit of lemon. I know bananas (sweet) and apples (sub-acid) are supposed to be "okay" together (not ideal) and apples (sub-acid) and lemons (acid) are “okay” together, but the lemons (acid) and bananas (sweet) are not supposed to be eaten together at all (according to food combining theory). But I only use a tiny bit of lemon. Some say bananas are bad in and of themselves. Low and behold, I don't tolerate plain bananas well anymore--I get acid reflux after eating them. I've tried a kale and apple smoothie, and I feel better after having one of those than I do after drinking my normal smoothie, but I still don't feel great, and I am left with a bit of a headache. While Victoria Boutenko and others maintain that green leafy vegetables combine with anything, others insist they do not. I'm not sure what to think any more, but I know the blended drinks no longer agree with me. Also, I've noticed I feel best when only combining foods in their own categories (ie, not even mixing acid with sub-acid).

So my conclusion in all this? The principles I previously dismissed, such as the need for proper food combining and lower fat intake seem to be very true. Our bodies can handle a lot and do just "fine" ignoring some of the "rules,” when not under heavy loads such as sustaining another life inside (a wonderful thing), or recovering from severe illness, However there is a huge distinction between pregnancy and illness; while pregnancy is very natural and necessary for human life to continue, disease can bring death and is a symptom of our bodies being in a state of poor health. While I wouldn't necessarily take my cues for optimal eating from how food made me feel when I was sick, I would be inclined to pay attention to what I've learned while pregnant. After all, I am indeed sustaining another life inside me, and my body is going to demand the very best for my baby's sake and mine.

I will probably take my cues for optimal eating from what I've learned as I've been pregnant...proper food combining, not too much fat (still haven't figured out the right amount for me yet), and maybe avoiding bananas and looking for a truly raw source of cashews.

One thing I am wondering...some raw foodists are talking about fat clogging the arteries, but isn't that statement based on standard medical advice, which makes no distinction from plant and animal fats, not to mention cooked or raw fats? The China Study, if I recall correctly, put that issue to rest and showed how animal fats are the culprits in clogged arteries, not plant fats. Also raw fats are totally different from their cooked and processed counterparts...so, heat treated or "trans" fats derived from plants cause major problems that raw plant fats do not. Too much fat may not be a good thing, but I doubt that RAW plant fats cause the same problems as animal fats or cooked plant fats.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2008 03:09PM by musicbebe.

iLIVE, you said:

"As for blaming it on certain foods, that just doesn't fly with me when I hear people say it, unless they have some sort of hard fact believable evidence. It's just not that simple, and not that easy to say for anyone, unless you are a scientist and understand how to hypothesis or create a "control" at least. Not to mention the fact pregnancy I've heard could be the cause of some of those symptoms even, not just food."

Like I said, it's my theory Belittle it if you want, but I, like most people on this board, will follow what their body tells them and then share with others what they think is going on inside. Sorry, but the tone of your response seems flippant and condescending :/

Ilive,

Thank you for your explanation, thats very insightful and thoughtful.

Mislu,

Yes, an inbalance between omega 3 and 6 can contribute to a variety of problems and is in fact a major problem (but there are so many others) effecting most americans today.

I consume an oil blend with a variety of oils in a 2:1 Omega 3-6 ratio. Since I eat nuts and avocados on top of this throughout the day, I am assuming I probably end up with a 2:1 Omega 6-3 ratio when it all comes down to it. Udo Erasmus, Author of 'Fats that Heal Fats that Kill' believes that we are perfectly capable of consumimg up to a 2:1 omega 3-6 ratio in the long term, although most people recommend somewhere between a 2:1 6-3 or 4:1 6-3 ratio. Many americans are something like 20-1, and there you can see where problems arise.

I post a lot about fats because I think fat in particular are where a lot of health problems start for most people. When you really get into nutrition you start to see how terrible the quality of fat is that most people consume. Of course, raw foodies are going to consume much better quality fat, but as you say, unless you supplement prudently with flax or hemp oil, you still run the risk of becoming omega 3 defficient.

Yeah, I've been noticing different fats and their effects in so many studies, too. I think that really is important! Do you have anything else to share about your thoughts on omega-3/6? I'm curious..

Well iLIVE, if you haven't already read the book 'Fats that Heal Fats that Kill' by Udo Erasmus, I highly recommend it. It is one of my favorite books of all time, not just in terms of nutrition. You will basically learn everything there is to know about fats if you read that book :]

awesome; i'll definitely look into it, thanks dude

iLIVE,

No problem, we're all entitled to our opinions. Yes, I was speaking from personal experience, but made it clear on several points that my experiences could indeed be due to several factors. I guess I also felt I was getting a scientific critique from you, when I wasn't presenting my conclusions as though they were absolute provable facts. Yet, I still think it is valuable for raw foodists to discuss their own experiences with each other, and it goes without saying that not everybody fits the same mold, studies or no studies. I will say that through the raw pregnancy email groups I am a part of, I have learned that a number of women have said the same things as me ("I used to love green smoothies, now they don't agree with me," or "mono meals work the best". While I am not interested enough to research my ideas fully or test them under any controlled conditions, I was interested enough to comment on what I observed.

Though I'm not particularly well read on this subject, there are numerous well-known raw foodists who make claims on bananas, not-really-raw-cashews, food combining, and limiting fat intake. My main point, was I personally once dismissed those claims, yet now find my experience matching up with what they say. I was just offering my "raw food for thought."