Hi, this is my first post so hope I am in the correct place to do so?

We found out yesterday my husband, age 57 has high blood pressure - 190/110 and high cholestrol - 602. They put him on medication asap as the doctor was afraid he would have a stroke or heart attack. Scared the heck out of both of us.

Does anyone have experience with these health issues?

We have never been on a raw diet before. We had a raw diet tonight with a little cooked rice. I have cut up raw vegetables for his lunch at work tomorrow. Fruit for breakfast.

I know if he goes back on meat it won't help this situation.

Any books you would recommend?

Thanks so much for any help and advice.

Kind regards,

Linnea

Yes. And increasing the overall % of fresh fruits and vegetables in his diet can only help this. Don't think of it as a 'diet' but rather a permanent lifestyle change. People won't/don't understand it....so it's better to NOT try to explain...even to friends & family.

Point: HE has to identify what HE thinks are the highest foods and lifestyles....and a person can help him with HIS dreams. Try having him write down what he thinks are the top 3 things he can do for his health.....and then the top 3 WORST habits that HE thinks he has. Working on setting definite goals on a list such as this is life-changing!

-I'm sure others can recommend some excellent books. I'm of a scientific mind, so I liked Gabriel Cousens, Conscious Eating. Cheers!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

The raw food diet will help because it is high in vitamin C, and humans are one of the few mammals that do NOT make their own vitamin C in the liver or kidneys. Vitamin C activates certain amino acids which then help to decrease the aterial plaque.

Grapefruit pectin is great and can reduce cholesterol without a change in diet:
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
"We conclude that a grapefruit pectin-supplemented diet, without change in lifestyle, can significantly reduce plasma cholesterol."
One source for grapefruit pectin:
[www.swansonvitamins.com]

Coconut fat is also great, it is a saturated fat, but it is a short and medium chain fat (similar to the saturated fats in human milk) as opposed to the bad saturated fats from animal foods which are long chain saturated fats. The lauric acid in coconut fat helps to increase the good cholesterol.

Lillianswan,

Did you know that the melting temperature of lauric acid is 44 centigrade or 111 Fahrenheit? This means that in your body, lauric acid is a solid, not a liquid. This is not good for your blood vessels. This is why coconut oil causes cardiovascular problems.

Coconut oil has a melting point of 76 F, I don't know if the body will separate the lauric acid out from the rest of the coconut oil and create a lauric acid that will bind to the arteries. When I look up arterial plaque it says nothing about it being composed of lauric acid, just cholesterol crystals and calcium deposits.

I thought coconut oil was good for us, especially if having problems with yeast (candida). Personally, I'd like to never feel like I should eat coconut oil again cause all oils taste gross to me now... but seriously, is it a balancing act between flora/fauna regulation and cardiovascular health?

I saw Rick Dina speak on the coconut oil propaganda at the Vibrant Living Expo, who shared the following about the coconut research.

Bruce Fife, who is a paid consultant of the coconut industry, is the author of much of the literature on the benefits of coconut oil (or is quoted by other literature).

On of the research papers he uses as evidence is Cholesterol, coconuts, and diet on Polynesian atolls: a natural experiment: the Pukapuka and Tokelau island studies..

Two indigenous populations: the Pukapuka, with 34% saturated fat intake from coconuts, and the Tokelau, with 63% saturated fat intake from coconuts.

If you look at the serum cholesterol levels of the two populations from the above paper,

sex  age  puka  tokelau
----------------------
M   15-19 148.9 184.5
    20-24 155.0 195.9
    25-34 167.1 209.5
    35-44 181.8 215.7
    45-54 178.0 220.2
    55-64 180.5 217.1
F   15-19 170.5 197.3
    20-24 161.2 176.1
    25-34 170.9 213.8
    35-44 168.1 222.5 
    45-54 190.5 220.6
    55-64 194.2 245.4

What you see is the higher the coconut intake, the higher the cholesterol levels. Also, as one ages, the cholesterol levels go up given the same diet. Eating a lot of coconut oil is not good for the serum cholesterol.

Like I said, coconut oil increases good cholesterol (HDL) and I should have mentioned that it DOES increase total cholesterol levels. Ok, on page 3 of that report it says that HDL and LDL ratio estimations were not carried out in the surveys between the islands . . . but they were carried out between Tokelau and Tokelau imigrants to New Zealand and LDL levels were higher in the immigrants to New Zealand, despite the fact that their fat levels had dropped from 57% to 43% and that's all I read in the article about cholesterol ratios.

In this book, Atherosclerosis: Diet and Drugs by Arnold von Eckardstein
[www.google.com]
it DOES say that lauric acid will raise total cholesterol levels but will raise HDL more than LDL "which suggests a decrease in total artherosclerotic risk".

Similarly, a coconut oil seller says that when a group of coconut oil eaters switched to corn oil their total serum cholesterol decreased 18.7% from 179.6 to 146.0 . . . BUT HDL decreased 41% and LDL increased 30%:
[www.kokonutpacific.com.au]
"Kaunitz and Dayrit (1992) have reviewed some of the epidemiological and experimental data regarding coconut-eating groups and noted that the "available population studies show that dietary coconut oil does not lead to high serum cholesterol nor to high coronary heart disease mortality or morbidity." They noted that in 1989 Mendis et al reported undesirable lipid changes when young adult Sri Lankan males were changed from their normal diets by the substitution of corn oil for their customary coconut oil. Although the total serum cholesterol decreased 18.7% from 179.6 to 146.0 mg/dl and the LDL cholesterol decreased 23.8% from 131.6 to 100.3 mg/dl, the HDL cholesterol decreased 41.4% from 43.4 to 25.4 mg/dl (putting the HDL values very much below the acceptable lower limit of 35 mg/dl) and the LDL/HDL ratio increased 30% from 3.0 to 3.9. These latter two changes are considered quite undesirable."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 06:37AM by Lillianswan.

The conclusion of Kaunitz and Dayrit "dietary coconut oil does not lead to high serum cholesterol" is not one I would make based on the raw data of the Pukapuka and the Tokelau. Anyone here looking at this same data would not arrive at the conclusion these two arrived at. Would you?

The serum cholesterol rates of the Tokelau are no better than Americans eating SAD. What does this tell you about coconut oil?

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The serum cholesterol rates of the Tokelau are no
> better than Americans eating SAD. What does this
> tell you about coconut oil?

"Two populations of Polynesians living on atolls near the equator provide an opportunity to investigate the relative effects of saturated fat and dietary cholesterol in determining serum cholesterol levels. The habitual diets of the toll dwellers from both Pukapuka and Tokelau are high in saturated fat but low in dietary cholesterol and sucrose. Coconut is the chief source of energy for both groups. Tokelauans obtain a much higher percentage of energy from coconut than the Pukapukans, 63% compared with 34%, so their intake of saturated fat is higher. The serum cholesterol levels are 35 to 40 mg higher in Tokelauans than in Pukapukans. These major differences in serum cholesterol levels are considered to be due to the higher saturated fat intake of the Tokelauans. Analysis of a variety of food samples, and human fat biopsies show a high lauric (12:0) and myristic (14:0) content. Vascular disease is uncommon in both populations and there is no evidence of the high saturated fat intake having a harmful effect in these populations." [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"What does this tell you about coconut oil?" Well the study does not mention coconut oil in the abstract, but "coconut". And the serum cholesterol rates tabulated in your earlier post do not include the ratio of HDL to LDL, which is considered more indicative of healthy cholesterol levels. The abstact concludes "Vascular disease is uncommon in both populations and there is no evidence of the high saturated fat intake having a harmful effect in these populations."

Whole food coconut is a much different food than coconut oil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 12:24PM by loeve.

Lillianswan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> [www.kokonutpacific.com.au]
> .html?Health/NewLookCNO.htm
> "Kaunitz and Dayrit (1992) have reviewed some of
> the epidemiological and experimental data
> regarding coconut-eating groups and noted that the
> "available population studies show that dietary
> coconut oil does not lead to high serum
> cholesterol nor to high coronary heart disease
> mortality or morbidity." ...

Coconut oil venders use similar tactics where they take a study on "coconut-eating groups" and then use it to sell "coconut oil".. as if "coconut" and "coconut oil" were synonymous.

It is misleading because "coconut-eating groups" eat coconut in many forms including baby, young, mature, raw, cooked, oil, etc; in proportions varying depending on the group studied. Whereas "coconut oil" is always a processed food.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 01:18PM by loeve.

>The conclusion of Kaunitz and Dayrit "dietary coconut oil does not lead to high
>serum cholesterol" is not one I would make based on the raw data of the Pukapuka
>and the Tokelau. Anyone here looking at this same data would not arrive at the
>conclusion these two arrived at. Would you?

I thought that statement was contradicted by their own evidence since the Sri Lankan's cholesterol dropped significantly when they went on corn oil instead of coconut oil.

>The serum cholesterol rates of the Tokelau are no better than Americans eating
>SAD. What does this tell you about coconut oil?

That the Tokelau probably have different ratios of HDL/LDL and die of heart disease less.


Hey Bryan, (Now, supposing that coconut oil is really a wonder oil that will help prevent heart disease) I've often wondered why so much missinformation about coconut oil could be around, and some of the reasons I've thought of are that:

-The medical community likes the profits it get from selling heart disease medicines and performing operations, that's got to be worth billions to them.

-The US farmers probably like it because now thier oil crops like canola and soybean oil sell, again worth billions.

-The government is going to benefit because the Baby Boom population is going to die early and they will have to pay a lot less Social Security to them, again worth billions.

Which group do you think would most likely be trying to give coconut oil a bad name?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 02:35PM by Lillianswan.

Here is a hypertension study conducted in Kerala, India in which they have studied both coconut and it's oil:

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

The abstract concludes: "Significant determinants of hypertension were higher saturated fat, particularly coconut oil, and lower fruit, vegetable, legume and coconuts, particularly legumes and coconuts in the diet, apart from conventional risk factors."

..of course it's a mixed raw/cooked omnivorous food diet that they are studying so some of the fats are cooked animal.. they consider "visible" fat greater than 20 grams/day positively associated with hypertension, but coconut consumption up to 400 grams/day inversely associated with hypertension.

So watch those "visible" oils trying to keep them under a few tablespoons/day.. and enjoy those fruits and veggies including "legumes and coconuts".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 03:47PM by loeve.

OK, Back to the original question. Linnea, I am certainly no expert. However, I can only tell you that to me it is simple numbers.

Number 1, What is the percentage chance that your husband will live long by staying on the same diet?

Number 2, What is the percentage chance that your husband will live long by switching to more raw foods?

I have only been doing this for about a week. I can tell you for a fact that 2 things have happened. 1) My weight has dropped 5 lbs. 2) My psoriasis has almost completely cleared up. I do have high blood pressure (about 160/100) so I am taking Toprol XL. I am hoping that the raw food diet will get me off of that medication. I know I will see an improvement when I can start exersizing again. I injured my knee so I have not been able to run or anything for several weeks. Like I said, I have only been doing it about a week. And I have only been doing 75% raw to begin with. So I still have a normal SAD dinner. But breakfast/lunch and in between it is fruits, vegetables and nuts. In another couple of weeks I will go 100% raw.

nothing beats Number 2

I see cholesterol lowering commercials on tv all the time and I kinda laugh!
STOP EATING cholesterol and it will drop to normal, you dont need a pill.
just by simply eating raw there isnt any cholesterol in fruit and vegetables.
I also read recently that KIWI fruit has omega 3 fatty acids, and more of it than fish! Its amazing how there are more DRUG commercials now than Ive ever seen!
My last cholesterol check I was about 112, that was a year ago, last june, so just over a year ago. The body produces cholesterol naturally to use it for what its need for, we dont need to consume foods that have more cholesterol in them.
Just a thought.
Rob

roadrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see cholesterol lowering commercials on tv all
> the time and I kinda laugh!
> STOP EATING cholesterol and it will drop to
> normal, you dont need a pill.
>

No doubt Rob, you hit the nail on the head. WTF is wrong with Drs. these days. They are so quick to medicate. When my Dr. said I had high cholesterol and Blood pressure, at least she said, "I will write you scripts to take care of these problems. You can diet and excersize and bring them down, then I will take you off the meds.". At least she gave me an out. Some folks at work that I talked to said their doc just told them here is a script and oh btw you will be taking these meds the rest of your life! Geeze. Instead of making the greedy bastards that run drug companies wealthier, lets put the money into the farmers pocket and our own well being. Don't these doctors look at statistics? There is a reason that heart disease, cancer, etc. are so high. Especially in the USA.

you could even just try looking for some vegan recipes in the mean time - or I highly suggest the book
"the china study"

it's a good start; the raw food world is really complicated

Yea, My son went to the doctor,hes 15 for a follow up on zoloft, the doc asked him how he was doing in school, my son said well i have a couple F s but other wise not too bad, the doc subscribed him "concerta" for ADHD! because he has a couple of F s! WTF!!! this doc has him on zolft because hes depressed and he cant sleep at nigh either so he has him taking sleep aids!!! my son is 15! his BMI is obese! hes 5 foot 10 and weighs 220!he should weigh about 160. the reason he cant sleep and hes depressed is HIGH PROTEIN causes sleeplessness and depression!
the doctor didnt even ask him what his diet consisted of!! or he didnt weigh him either! doctors are all about DRUGS! they make money for prescribing them and so do the pharmacies! i read the book NATURAL CURES "they" DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT by Kevin Trudeau and man this book is awsome on the medical industry, on everything! i cant believe my son is taking about FOUR medications!! When all he needs to do is cut out protein and stop eating SAD but my x wife AGREES with the doctor because hes a "doctor" it makes me sick that I have no say in what my son eats or weather he takes meds or not,I am his parent too! We are in a joint custody but he LIVES with her so i have no say. And my son WANTS to eat like me and not take the drugs!
the medical industry is just that an industry! to make money, they dont care about people!
Rob



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2008 11:22PM by roadrunner.

Rob,

I hear ya. All the more reason for you to double your resolve and live a life of health and balance -- as a living example for your son. Hopefully, someday he will come to realize what a gift your living example is and it may be what saves him from the habit patterns of his past.

I am glad you are doing the right thing. Continue to do it for you, of course, but also for your son. He is going to need to see that people can really change and heal.

Wishing you all the best,

Lee

Look at all the commercials for drugs now! theres more drug commercials than food ones now.
Im trying to be an example, actually both my kids know what Im doing is the best but they are stuck eating what their mom feeds them and their mom thinks Im an idiot and that Im malnourished and that i need meat on my bones,Im too skinny, and
everyone needs 3 squares a day including meat! UGHHH this is a major battle for me.
Thanks for the insights Lee.
So Linnea, hows your hubby doing now?

i always say a doctor is just a legal drug dealer; yeah, they don't have nutritionist backgrounds, because the society has yet to acknowledge the fact food may have an impact on disease and problems, or the simple fact that what caused the problem had anything to do with it - like if you are constantly stressed and you start having kidney problems. A doctor would think about what meds help your kidneys. Just how they're trained. But that is mostly in America, not everywhere gets profits off of drugs. (Most doctors get paid for the amount of people they save; here in america it's how much money you make off of the patient, i.e. how many drugs you sell, that tells you your salary)

Hey Rob,
Having been a single mother of teenagers I empathize with your situation. Here's my opinion and experience: When I was fourteen I realized that the chronic constipation I had always had was diet related. I told my mom to have more fresh fruit and whole grains in the house and this started my quest for health. I have not had a problem unless I let my diet slip. Going raw has made my health even better. I have never been much of a meat eater and have never had a cholesterol problem, though my family has. I feel that at fifteen, your son is old enough to take his health into his own hands. If he wants to eat more raw foods, he should just do it. Buy them for him to take to his mom's house if you think he'll eat them. Also, in this turbulent age, I don't know many fifteen year olds who don't have trouble sleeping. They are trying to figure out their world and their lives, and it is a tough job. I would try melatonin instead of drugs, if you can. What does your son want for himself? At his age, he can start deciding. I feel for you and him. My daughter was diagnosed bipolar at fourteen, but now at twenty-two, she is a good mother and college student. She took herself off of Lithium at sixteen with the supervision of her psychologist and hasn't looked back. I'm not suggesting that everyone with mental health conditions do the same, but she was coping with a miscarriage at a very young age and the divorce of her family, so the mental disturbances are understandable. I think she is psychologically delicate, and the more she takes her health into her own hands, the better she does. Just my opinion; hope it helps.

roadrunner, I feel for you, but I was on the other side as the custodial parent I sent my children to their father who would pump them full of candy and make complaints to the court that he felt compelled to do so because I did not feed them sugar. A child at age 15 can make their own decisions on what they eat and how they feel, We as parents can give them the tools and plant the seeds in their minds for a better life. Even if he were to stop eating fast foods and sugar he would be better off right? You are the example for healthy eating not only to your child but to their mother as well. Be of positive mind and pat yourself on the back for taking positive steps towards your health.