I attempted a simple water fast last weekend and due to lack of preparation and knowledge it was an uncontested disaster. Clearly, jumping out of bed on Saturday morning is not the time to tacitly decide that a weekend fast is in order. In theory fasting is quite a sound practice. For someone new to the raw lifestyle and never fasted before, I've had better days.

So, if I'd like to attempt this by myself (unsupervised) may I ask the board for some assistance? Is this a wise thing to do on my own? Is a simple two day period sufficient for a first fast? Is water my only option or should I incorporate light juices? I know not to go jogging but can I attend to daily business with the family or must I remain sedentary?

As I love to read and attend to my due diligence on topics such as this, any links you could provide would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance!

My best to all,

David

I prefer juice fasts myself. A holistic doctor taught me that we are so toxic in today's world that sometimes a water fast is too tough for our bodies to handle, that we need the nutrition from juices to help our bodies through a fast. Although, he did sometimes have his patients do water fasts but that was only after they had been his patient for quite awhile and he thought they were ready for it.

It coincides with what Dr. Fred Bisci, a 40 year raw foodist says, that you can die from endogenous toxins just as easily as you can die from exogenous toxins.

I found this webpage on juice fasting and found it surprisingly good [altmedicine.about.com] .

But I am definitely no expert, so I will leave it to others on this board who are to answer your other questions.

I've done a few 3 day juice fasts. I juiced carrots, apples, and parsley together. The first 24 hours seemed to be the most difficult. The second and third day were much easier and I still did some Yoga and my regular household chores.

I feel really cold when I'm fasting. Be sure to dress warmly and keep some blankets around.

My opinion:

-Work into it by becoming VERY comfortable with light juice fasts of a single day......or a weekend. Then try a one-day water fast on Sunday. Later....you can try a two day water fast. It's consistency over a lifetime that yields results. No amount of care in a single day will make the tree bear fruit.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Oh, I forgot to mention my own experience. I have done a juice fast for a week before and it didn't seem to affect me energy wise. I was able to work okay and everything like usual. I have not done a water fast and probably wouldn't now that I have Type 1 Diabetes.

here is some good fasting in addition to the suggestions above

this was a good article on fasting:

Fasting : Nature's Cleanse by Loren Lockman
Published in the September 25, 2002 Just Eat an Apple

There are over 25 million animal species on the planet, and virtually all of them fast when not well enough. You may have witnessed this first hand if you've ever had a cat or dog. Like other animals, when they are ill or injured badly enough, they will lie down and refuse food, not moving until they have substantially recovered.

Often, when people are sick, they lose their appetite. In our culture, we often encourage them to eat to 'keep up their strength.' Unwittingly, we are further teaching them to Not follow their instincts and intuition.

Unlike medicine - both conventional and alternative - fasting is about actually healing the body, rather than simply treating symptoms. It's not that fasting actually 'does' anything. It doesn't. Healing is an inherent power of every living organism. Fasting simply provides the body - any body - with the optimal conditions and opportunity to cleanse itself of accumulated toxins, and heal any prior damage. In this way, it's evident that fasting is the best way to deal with almost every condition.

Though there is much misinformation out there, the body will never injure itself when fasting. It knows exactly what it is and is not capable of handling, and though we sometimes detoxify faster than we might like to, this is rarely if ever dangerous.

There are, of course, some potential dangers while fasting, though they are few and far between. There are many symptoms which may arise while fasting, and a few that almost certainly will: lowered blood pressure, lowered body temperature, and coated tongue.

Blood pressure is virtually guaranteed to drop while fasting, and will stay lower if intelligent lifestyle choices are followed after the fast. This is great news for the 50% of Americans who will die of the ravages of high-blood pressure, heart disease, or stroke. It's worth noting for all fasters because below-normal blood pressure, while not inherently dangerous or problematic often results in orthostatic hypotension (standing up too fast and getting dizzy, in English).

This dizziness occurs when lower-than-normal blood pressure fails to provide enough blood to the brain upon rising. To insure that this doesn't occur, rise slowly. From a lying position, sit-up first, standing-up only after you feel a sense of equilibrium.

Should you stand up too quickly, or feel dizzy at any time, drop to a sitting or kneeling position immediately, and lower your head between your knees. This will insure ample blood supply to the brain, quickly eliminating the dizziness. Rise again slowly after insuring equilibrium.

Your body temperature is also virtually guaranteed to drop while fasting. Again, this is not inherently a problem, though it means you will need to take extra precautions to maintain your body temperature, especially when fasting in the winter. Don't wait until you're chilled to warm up. Doing so means that you are wasting your body's precious energy - energy that could be used for cleansing and healing. Rather, seek to stay warm. This may mean wearing more clothes than you would if not fasting. Keeping warm is generally not a problem when you are in bed and wrapped up in a comforter/blankets.

Your tongue will almost certainly become coated during your fast, possibly at the onset, and will likely remain coated during your entire fast. This is normal and is thought to indicate the degree of sludge in your colon. It has been said that once the tongue clears, the body is done fasting. Our experience is that the tongue will sometimes clear, and within a day or so become coated again, likely indicating that the body is working through pockets or layers of material. You can scrape your tongue, or brush the coating off with a wet toothbrush (no toothpaste). Don't be surprised if it returns fairly quickly.

This coating will color your taste buds, and you may find the water tastes good one day, and not-so-good the next. It is not the water that has changed, but your perception of taste.

You will note that we mentioned in the first paragraph that animals routinely lie down, ceasing all activity until they feel well again. 25 million species can't be wrong, and this is the ideal way to fast. Fasting is often thought of as abstaining from food, but this is really only part of the picture. To provide the body with the optimal conditions in which to heal, it's important to provide complete rest. Because the digestive tract uses approximately 50% of the body's daily energy, complete rest necessitates not eating. It also necessitates minimizing unnecessary brain function, as the brain is the second highest consumer of the body's energy, using about 35%. You can certainly read, write, and think if you choose to, but your process will be more effective if you don't do any more of these things than necessary.

Though you won't be able to sleep all the time - unless your body actually needs that much sleep - you can give yourself the next highest possible states of rest in two ways; First, you might want to meditate throughout your stay. We offer two groups meditations in the library daily, and you are welcome to participate in both. Of course you can meditate any time on your own as well.

Research has proven the amazing benefits of meditation, which provides a level of rest that is in some ways, deeper than sleep. Please note, meditation can never replace sleep, which is a physiological necessity. If you don't know how to meditate, there are simple meditation instructions here in the book.

The second way to achieve very deep levels of rest when not sleeping is to emulate the other species: lie down and close your eyes. Doing so dramatically reduces the body's energy consumption, providing very deep levels of rest. When we lie down and close our eyes, the heart rate slows down, the respiratory rate slows down, and brain waves become more normalized and uniform. These physiological changes show us that the body is in a resting state, and that energy has been freed up for cleansing and healing.

Closing our eyes is important because we take in 70% of the body's information through the eyes, and as long as they're open, we're expending a lot of energy processing the information they provide to us. Remember that we are attempting to allow the body to use all available energy for cleansing and healing, rather than shunting energy aside for other purposes. Any unnecessary activity consumes energy, making it unavailable to the body.

Your body goes through several distinct phases when you begin to fast. After your last meal, the body looks to your digestive tract for any nutrients or calories that it might need. This source of nutrition might last for 8-12 hours. Once your body has depleted this source, it goes to the liver for glycogen stores there.

Of all the nutrients available to the body, the only one that the body must have 24 hours per day is glucose, and glycogen is a glucose precursor, so the body converts it to glucose. The body goes to the liver stores first, because it always seeks to be as efficient as possible, and the liver provides the most readily available source of glucose.

The liver's glycogen stores will last between 8-12 hours, at which point the body, maximizing efficiency, goes to the next most readily available source of glucose - muscle tissue. In a process called neoglucogenesis, the body converts muscle tissue to glucose. Don't worry -- if you're fasting correctly and minimizing your activity, (and therefore your caloric needs), you won't consume much muscle tissue during this stage of the process.

And in fact, your body doesn't want to lose any more muscle than it 'feels' it can afford to, so as your fast continues, the body will switch over to a less-efficient, but safer long term source of fuel: adipose tissue, or long-term fat stores. How long it takes for this switch to occur depends on your body composition; the higher your muscle/fat ratio, the longer the body can 'safely' consume muscle tissue. In order to minimize the consumption of muscle tissue throughout your fast, it's important to minimize your activity. Though this may seem counterintuitive, as your activity levels increase, your body's caloric needs increase too, and your body will consume more muscle - a more efficient source of fuel - to more easily meet the higher demands.

The switch from consuming primarily muscle (with some fat) to consuming primarily fat (with some muscle) is very important for two reasons: first, we store toxins in the body primarily in our adipose tissue so wholesale cleansing doesn't begin until this stage of the process, and second, because the switch only takes place in the complete absence of all nutrients. This means that 'juice fasting' (which is a misnomer as juices supply both calories and nutrients) is far less effective than true fasting, because the body never moves into the most beneficial part of the process.

People sometimes have suggested that juice fasting is much more gentle, and this is true. The reason for this though is simply that it is much less effective, in much the same way that using a sponge to smooth a piece of wood is much more gentle than using a piece of sandpaper.

Rest assured, that fasting - done properly - provides the body with the optimal conditions in which to heal itself, and there is nothing better that you could do for yourself.

The keys, as mentioned earlier, are to eliminate or minimize all unnecessary activity, to provide your body with the deepest levels of rest possible, to drink enough water (covered later in the book), to maintain your body temperature, to rise slowly to minimize the likelihood of passing out, and to relax in the knowledge that you are providing yourself with an amazing gift.

The benefits of fasting are numerous and include not only a much higher-functioning physical body, but also more mental clarity, and a deepened sense of connection to all life.




this is a decent how to break a fast ... and for those of you non-religous just ignore the god references

How to Break a Fast

by

Ron Lagerquist



You have completed a thirty-day fast. It has been a wonderful spiritual retreat, a time of refreshment with God. A withdrawal from the temptations of this world. A period of inner reflection, quiet meditation and prayer, lifted out of this world into a lofty realm where there are no earthly distractions from communing with your Father.

But now the fast has ended. It is time to return to the world of eating, a world that may have represented addiction, bondage and control.

Breaking an extended fast can be difficult. This is especially true if you were in bondage to food. It is often a period of attack. Satan wants control over your life and food has been a powerful lever. Is it possible to enter back into the world of eating and remain self-controlled? The answer is yes! Fasting was never meant to be an escape from Satan's kingdom, but a springboard to equip you in overcoming. Fear not--God has developed within you the Spirit of self-control, authority to say no!

When waking up a slumbering digestive system, the desire to eat will be intense. The flavors and textures of food will be enhanced by super clean nasal passages. Eating will be a brand new experience. This is the time to flex your new-found muscles of discipline and self-control. As the body screams, I want more, wisdom whispers, you have had enough. Fasting has schooled you in the fact that contentment does not come from a full belly but maintaining spiritual fellowship with the Bread of Life. My food is to do the will of him who sent me (John 4:34).

Eating small amounts of raw fruits and vegetables for the first five or six days will allow the body to gently wake up the digestive system. The body will continue to detoxify and cleanse during this period. Any toxins that have accumulated will begin to move due to the sweeping action of the soft fibers of fruits and vegetables.

1. For six days gradually increase the amount of raw fruits and vegetables in your diet. To break a fast and gorge on meat, bread or junk food will be disaster. Jarring the system this intensely when the digestive system is in a sensitive state can cause stomach cramps, nausea and weakness, negating much of the benefits of the fast.

2. Eat slowly and chew your food well. Saliva has enzymes that assist in digestion. Up to 80 percent of the starch, 30 percent of the protein and 10 percent of the fat can be digested by the enzymes in saliva.

3. Do not overeat! Discover the amount of food that your body needs to live a vibrant, healthy life.

4. Make juices during the breaking period. Juices are gentle nourishment to the body. Most continue to include juice in their daily routine, for the rest of their lives.

5. Continue in the same prayerfulness you had during the fast. God should be just as much a part of your eating as He was part of your fasting.

6. Educate yourself on how to begin a lifestyle of healthy eating. Fasting is a wonderful new beginning, a foundation for a lifelong, healthy diet.

7. Discern the difference between cravings and hunger. Never feed your emotions.

8. When breaking a fast over ten days, the break-in period should be extended one day for every 4 days of fasting.

An interesting phenomena occurs after a fast. The years of conditioning your body to tolerate unhealthy foods is reversed. The body is as clean as a new-born baby. Try feeding a new-born baby Grandma's apple pie.

When the body is full of toxins, its defense systems are not able to operate effectively. After a fast the natural defenses are able to perform the way God intended. Sensitivity to unhealthy food is increased. You will feel satisfied with smaller amounts of food and sluggish and tired when overeating. Rich foods, full of fat, salt, and processed sugars will cause nausea, headaches and weakness. A handful of fruit will be thoroughly satisfying. Because the digestive system has to work less, there will be boundless energy to spare

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

"Dr. Fred Bisci, a 40 year raw foodist says, that you can die from endogenous toxins just as easily as you can die from exogenous toxins. "

If a poison didn't kill when it was consumed, it will not do so on the way out. This is the kind of myth that frightens people away from fasting. Chemicals and wastes that have been stored in the body may interact with other substances -- exogenous and endogenous -- as they are being eliminated during a fast and this may occasion odd or painful symptoms, but to say that they are capable of killing a person is a ridiculous exaggeration. As Loren Lockman says in his essay posted above, "the body will never injure itself when fasting".

Jodi,
Thanks for posting the essay by Loren Lockman.

Best regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

>> "Dr. Fred Bisci, a 40 year raw foodist says, that you can die from endogenous toxins just as easily as you can die from exogenous toxins. "

. if someone has a severe illness, and takes no drugs, what else kills them other then the attempted expulsion of 'endogenous toxins'? please don't tell me its the extra bowl of chicken soup.

>> "the body will never injure itself when fasting". If this was completely true, you could just lie still for the rest of your eternity and never die.

. makes sense to me, that those not very clean internally, probably should enter fasting at a very slow pace. Precisely because it CAN stir up internal wastes (potentially without elimination of wastes - which is another story). for that reason alone, not to mention other factors of breaking appropriately, and even the poise/ability to obtain sensory and mental rest while abstaining from food.

I'm pretty sure also, if you took someone heavily detoxing off heroin, gave them no more heroin and put them on water alone they would potentially die.

- heres another:

. EVERYONE water fasts the second, minute, hour, day, or in some cases even week they die.

. Why wouldn't it reverse their condition unless fatal endogenous toxins were coming out?

. People died all the time ( I imagine ) prior to drugs and cooked foods.

David,

For me, the biggest benefit of fasting is getting the complete physiological rest that comes from water fasting. This means to not eat, to stay in bed, and to rest for the duration of the fast and even beyond. I have done a 10 day, 12 day, and about a dozen or so 3-4 day water fasts.

Most people on a juice fast don't stay in bed, but go about their normal business. To me, this isn't resting, and I don't see how any deep healing is going to happen over a simple diet of organic fresh raw fruits and vegetables. For a lot of raw foodists, consuming only juice is cleaner than their normal diet, but for me, this wouldn't be cleaner than my normal diet. So instead, why not just monoeat watermelon or bananas rather than juice? At least that way you can get some fiber to help clean out your digestive system.

For a first fast, I recommend no more than 2-3 days. And practice with that until it feels easy, then move to a longer fast. And read books like "Fasting Can Save Your Life" or "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" or "Fasting for the Renewal of Life".

anaken,

Perhaps people are killed by the exogenous toxins that kills the cells that they come in contact with. The body does what it can to remove them, but still it can be overwhelmed to the point where its efforts are no longer effective. Is it the attempt to remove the toxins that cause death, or the overwhelm of the body by the existing toxins in the body, where there may not be any effort to remove those poisons.


For the heroin addict, is seems that the continued intake of the poison is only going to quicken death. The cold turkey approach may feel harsh, but no harsher than the poisoning of the body by the heroin in the first place.

Just a suggestion, can we avoid saying the word 'ridiculous' when commenting on other people's posts please? I'm kind of tired of seeing it. We can state our opinions without putting down other's statements to that extent. I don't know if anyone else agrees with me and maybe I am just tired...

No biggee, I'll survive either way.

if you can get your hands on fresh young coconut water that would be great. 2-3 young coconut water would be great since coconut water is a "perfect" food. you can find young coconuts in many asian markets.

It's been my own experience that water fasting gives a much better detoxification than juice fasting. I've done 40 and 28 day juice fasts, and a 17 day, 14 day and 10 day water fast (and lots of shorter fasts), and although the water fast is much more grueling and difficult to stick with, the results were phenomenal. Water fasting is tough, but it really gets to the 'bedrock' of the body's toxins and eliminates them. Our physical nature makes it pretty well nigh impossible for us to over-detoxify, I believe, in that if you're really, really sick or toxic you probably won't be able to fast more than 1-3 days to start with anyway, without expert help; it's just too hard! Each time you fast for a short period of time, you rid yourself of more accumulations, and then you find that the next time you can fast for 5 days or a week, and so on.

Some people fast one day a week or have a daily mini-fast by ceasing eating right after dinner and not eating the next day till noon (the 'no breakfast' plan).

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

I thought I would share part of an interview with Dr. Fred Bisci, the part on fasting. He is a 55 year raw foodist who is now in his late 70s and runs a clinic where he helps people return to health. He has helped thousands heal from many different degenerative diseases. I am providing this for informational purposes only.

Fasting: Water Fasting vs. Juice Fasting
You have to understand what you are doing when you are fasting. Many people fast when they are in a crisis, but you have to understand that fasting is a crisis-creating situation in itself. In other words, if you are feeling well and you fast, then you will not feel good. You created a healing crisis. If you are already in a severe crisis and you are already weak, it might not be a wise idea to do a water fast, unless you are ready to go to bed, not move and keep your eyes closed.

Another mistake that people make with fasting in Natural Hygiene is not drinking enough water. You actually should be drinking more water when you fast. The water is a transit medium. You need it to carry the endogenous waste out of your system. Many natural hygienists say, "Drink water only when thirsty." I think that is a mistake. You should be drinking at least a glass of water every hour. Otherwise, you are going to feel terrible. Water fasting is more effective than juice fasting, but there is more risk to water fasting.

Anybody that tells you there is no risk to water fasting and that the body will never harm itself, doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I know people who have died on a water fast. Now with juice fasting, I think it is very good. It is much safer, and you will not get as weak.You can go about your business. If you have to function, you could function easier on juice fasting.

Now, it is all relative as to how much juice. If you have three glasses of juice a day, that is enough to carry most anybody through anything. I know some clinics that give people up to 13 glasses of juice a day. That is really too much. They’re really detoxifying and auto-intoxicating people at the same time! Many people are doing that, and they don’t even know it.

What is your opinion of the different lengths of fasts?
Unless you have a lot of experience with fasting, I would say you could fast up to seven days. Understand that breaking the fast is the risky part. I have personally seen people break a fast the wrong way and go into renal shock where they had to go to the hospital.

I do not think there is anything wrong with fasting one day a week. I know some hygienists say that it is worthless, that fasting one day a week does not do anything for the body. I do not agree with them on that. I think fasting one day a week is fine. I think when you fast one day a week, what you are doing is giving your digestive system a rest. It might not be a therapeutic fast because your body does not get into therapeutic fasting on a oneday fast. You are just cleaning up your system.

I do not see anything wrong with doing a seven day fast once a year, unless you have a medical condition, if you have a thyroid condition, or you are a diabetic. However, for a healthy person fasting seven days, or doing a fast occasionally, is fine. I personally fast often. I am a fasting person.

So, do you think it’s healthier to plan a fast ahead of time than to fast when your body is asking for it?
That is correct. I think it is a good idea to plan a fast ahead of time so you do not get into a situation where you have to do it. Actually, the best time to fast is when you really feel good. As crazy as that might sound, I have done that many times and it takes you to a whole other level. However, when you do that, you cannot go back. Once you’re eating a diet that is an uncompromising type of diet, you cannot go back to a diet that is compromising. You always have to upgrade your diet.

The entire interview is at [rawlivingfoods.typepad.com].

With much love to everyone.

Anaken wrote: "if someone has a severe illness, and takes no drugs, what else kills them other then the attempted expulsion of 'endogenous toxins'? please don't tell me its the extra bowl of chicken soup."

**If somebody who is already sick is eating things like chicken soup, the body will obviously be prevented from cleansing (which it is urgently trying to do via the symptoms) to the extent that death may result. But this doesn't support your case that detoxifation kills. It's just the opposite.

"the body will never injure itself when fasting". If this was completely true, you could just lie still for the rest of your eternity and never die.

**In the above scenario, detoxification wouldn't be the cause of death, starvation would be.

Regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

. uh. I said please DONT tell me its the chicken soup. lol

. I'm aware of how cooked foods or medications will prevent the body from properly detoxing.

. what i'm saying is that in spite of, or without such foods/medications..everyone is 'water fasting' the second, minute, hour, day etc...prior to death, so how could it NOT be the symptoms attempt to come out, which kills them? Lets say a decision was made to get well, how come every minute after choosing not intake food (at any point in an acute crisis) would not result in increased restoration of health?

Bryan:

. I think A rational for juice fasting over mono diets are that foods generally mix with internal deposits whereas juices do not. Many people have all sorts of crap going on where they will not react well to even a few days of watermelon. Even mono fruits will take more digestive energy then juices, and Green juices can help restore the system while it has a 'relative' fast. I don't think anyone claims its more effective then water fasting, or more 'nutritious' than a period of eating well. I think also with parasites..maybe water fasting would be the direct route, but juices (as opposed to mono fruits) would also starve them.

. Another reason would be the complete disconnect form solid foods. while getting some calories..and abundant nutrients.

. If more people choose to work/remain stressed during a juice fast/master cleanse or whatever..thats their choice...maybe certain gurus support that or whatever? Certainly choosing complete sensory and physical rest would be better

". what i'm saying is that in spite of, or without such foods/medications..everyone is 'water fasting' the second, minute, hour, day etc...prior to death, so how could it NOT be the symptoms attempt to come out, which kills them? Lets say a decision was made to get well, how come every minute after choosing not intake food (at any point in an acute crisis) would not result in increased restoration of health? "

In the vast majority of cases, it does. We don't hear about them because not that many people choose to do the right thing when they get sick, AND because the medical profession has everyone thinking exactly the opposite of disease than they should be. I.e., when a sick person takes medicine and dies, the disease is blamed rather than the medicines. In truth, when a sick person takes medicine and ends up dying, it's always the case that the medicine hastened death. If everyone fasted when they got sick, almost everyone would get well. I say "almost" because there are rare cases when the body is too overwhelmed and regeneration is not possible. Fasting clinics turn away these kinds of cases, where people are in the so-called wasting stage of disease, most commonly cancer or "aids". In cases where people choose to medicate, keep eating and keep indulging the other lifestyle habits that created the backlog of waste, death sometimes results. Sometimes the body manages to overcome both the medicines AND the original causes, and in those cases the medicines are erroneously credited with the recovery. In reality, it's never disease that causes the death (disease is the body's attempt to deal with the causes), but the continuation of the CAUSES. Does this make sense?

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

in a word: yes

. What I don't understand is how you would then define starvation

. would this happen after 40 days, 80 days 160 days?

. we know that the world record (on record) is 367 (or around there cant recall) days

. now..you are going to tell me that everyone in every level of health can withstand a 367 day water fast..because it has nothing to do with how much endogenous toxin is in the system?

. cheers

also,

. in many cases, drugs arn't just 'credited' with curing, they actually have been proven to (the appropriate term is) suppress diseases that would have otherwise killed people. Otherwise there would be no one buying into it.

. This doesn't mean that radiation 'cures' cancer, just that radiation has been proven to remove symptoms that statistically folks would drop dead from more so then the ones who got radiation.


. It doesn't mean that there is no causation to be examined and removed, just that it - to me - is blatantly obvious that a.) diseases kill people and b.) and that since the disease is the cure - the symptoms of expulsion of endogenous toxin - it can be worse then the disease.

. Thus folks should ease into anything that results into any accelerating expulsion of internal wastes disproportionate to their level of health.

. calling that idea..ridiculous...hmm

. to me ridiculous would be like..if my job was to help people, and get them well and my main line was:

"Well...maybe you shouldn't have done heroin (or ate cooked foods or whatever) in the first place..then you wouldn't be IN this mess..............DUH"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2007 04:28AM by anaken.

anaken,
Please read one of the great books about fasting for a clearer understanding. There are many theories thrown around regarding fasting that reveal a lack of understanding, fear and mistrust of nature. The body always strives to do what it can to optimize function. It knows what it's doing. It would never cleanse in such a way that would jeopardize itself.

Fasting and starvation are two distinct processes. Fasting is the utilization of reserve fuel and starvation happens after reserves are used up. Naturally this will vary depending on how much fuel any given person has in reserve (some people are very rich in fuel reserves!). At the point that reserves are used up, real hunger kicks in and will be as obvious as needing to get out of the way of an oncoming bus. If the person has the opportunity to eat at that time, life will go on. If not, death will be imminent. And if death happens in that scenario, it will have nothing to do with toxins.

It's true that there are some emergency measures that have been used to stop a bodily reaction that would have otherwise killed a person, such as anaphylactic shock or heart attack, but these are extremely rare compared to the millions of people who have been killed by medicines. And even in these exceptional cases, it is not the disease that kills but the CAUSES.

In addition, it is not wise to assume an idea is true just because it is popularly believed, imo. In fact, I've found that the more common a belief is, the more likely it is to be untrue.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

OK

. I keep agreeing with your responses (except the part about fuel reserves which seems like western medicine to me) ...and disagreeing that they are answering my questions

. so we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally I still think those suggesting to ease into fasting have more of a real understanding...then some kind of fear mongering or holding on to medical beliefs...but that it just me and my experience.

rawnora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

(some people
> are very rich in fuel reserves!).

agreed yup ! lol ..wayyyyyyyyy to rich!

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

anaken,
I never suggested that it is not wise for some people to "ease into" fasting. I hardly ever recommend fasting for the new raw fooders I coach, but not because it wouldn't be the best thing for them physiologically. Whether fasting harms people physiologically is the question we're discussing here, at least in part.

If my replies aren't answering your questions, please feel free to try again and I'd be happy to respond.

Thanks,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

Wow, and to think I started all this! Very interesting reading, to be sure. I respect the myriad of opinions expressed to date.

To quickly touch on the original thread, I like Bryan's suggestion of mono-fasting and will be attempting same this weekend. Will let you know on Monday how it goes.

My best to all for a safe & happy weekend,

David

Kwan or Bryan..

Do you think that repeated short water fasts of say 2 or 3 days would have a combined effect of one large one ?

Also... would one day of eating normaly after a fast be long enough before resuming physical activity, especialy sport ?

Lighform,

From my experience, the multiple short fasts are not as healing as a longer fast. But when you fast, your body has to be asking for it. By this I mean that when your body wants you to fast, your appetite is already gone and food just doesn't seem like something you want to put in your body. If you are experiencing the desire for food, then it may be that your body isn't asking for a fast. And if the body isn't asking for a fast, you may not get the optimal cleansing from your fast.

Typically it takes as many days of recovery as were on the fast. So if you fasted for 3 days, you ought to give yourself an additional 3 days of recovery before doing anything strenuous. The real healing comes from staying in bed and resting and sleeping a lot. To go from no activity to a bunch of activity is going to be abusive to your body and not conducive the the healing and cleansing we all want to get from our fasts.

What I've noticed with my experience of fasting is in this time after the fast, the body is still healing and cleaning itself at a pretty high rate, much higher than the everyday normal cleansing that goes on in the body.

So with all the fasting discussion, I might have missed it, how would one re-enter food after say a beginner attempting a 2-3 water fast?? I could see keeping activity in check as mentioned.

Thanks Bryan.
I am still wondering though, I would have thought there were alot of people around who could benifit by fasting in order to rid themselves of a load of junk in their systems but still have a healthy appetite.

Obviously fasting will not help unless they are ready to discontinue pumping the junk back in afterwards but I would have thought that if they were ready to make the change that a lack of appetite may never occur ?

The only time I've ever experienced this is when I used to eat SAD and would get the flu or what ever. Are you saying that fasting isn't realy necessary in achieving optimal health. I thought it was like a fast tracker ?