I have been running now for quite some time and 5 miles was my first goal, well I hit 5 miles some time ago and have been comfortably runnig that, but recently I got bored with 5 and decided on a new goal of 10 miles because i have plenty of air at 5 miles I want to go farther so i can run marathons next summer. Well heres the problem ok, my first attempt i went just over 7 miles and my knees began bothering me. Now heres the kicker, i never had issues with my knees before!
So Ive been stretching quite a bit more than I used too. Recently I began doing speed excercises with my bike UPHILL in low gear so its harder for me to peddal.
im hoping this will strengthen my knees and legs, will this help?
Do you know what I can do to strenghten my knees and the tendons in the back of my legs? I was 3 miles short of 10 and still had plenty of air, I wasnt tired but my knees bothered me so I had to stop, any sudgestions?
I run every other day so I do the bike excercises on the off days.
What i do is i ride my bike on the same route that I run. I dont stop peddaling
at all, and theres a couple of hills on this route and when I get to them I drop it down to lower gears so it pedals harder and I haul ass up the hill!
I can feel it workin my legs for sure. Do you have any sudgestions?
Thanks man!
Rob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 12:13AM by roadrunner.

Hey buddy...sports injuries are not my speciality, plus it's not a good idea to try to get solutions to things of this nature over the internet, I don't know how your running, I don't know you, I don't know what footwear/gear your using, I don't know where your training and I don't know how your training, neither do I know your history of physical fitness.

But what I can tell you is that if you've injured yourself or if your experiencing pain that stops you from progressing further then don't go and train harder on it, stop and go see a qualified professional in that field.

RB

Ok
I just thought you may have some pointers as to what excercises to do to strengthen the legs and knees

roadrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok
> I just thought you may have some pointers as to
> what excercises to do to strengthen the legs and
> knees

Nah buddy...You said your knees were bothering you, right?.....therefore I'm going to tell you to stop...seek help....and follow the instructions of a sports physio/qualified professional in your area before you do anything else, I'm not going to tell you how to train harder on painfull/injured knees...

RB

Ok thats cool, I respect that. Its not bad pain, they just kinda bother me. I want that 10 miles and im going to get it! Im a very goal oriented person and I dont stop till I get there. I think whats best is BABY STEPS. take it a mile at a time. I LOVE running and if ones not a runner then you dont understand how we can "love" running. It is a peace of mind for me, a time for myself, a time to clear my mind, just me and the road at 430 am its so peaceful you know! I used to envy runners, watching them run wishing I could do that, well I decided to do it and a year later here I am and I love it, to me there is no better "high" than running as far as you want and not getting tired! Thanks Richard for your insights. I will try and seek professional help here, Im just not fond of doctors much.
Rob

Rob,

Don't allow your goal orientation to get override the messages your body is giving you. If you feel pain, back of, let your knees heal, and then see if there is anything in your technique or body alignment that is causing the pain. It could be you simply overworked your knees, or it could be that your knees are out of alignment. For myself, when I feel pain in my knees, its because my hips are contracted.

Why would you simply not rest the injured part?

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www.getsuperb.net/13054098

Chi Running is a running technique that can keep you injury free. i did a class, it was awesome and no more pains when running! There are classes all over hte US
[www.chirunning.com]

SWIM!! gentle gentle and makes you so strong.


ricky, i gots a question for you too mister. how you makin' out with those five finger shoesies? i still want a pair, they look so beyond nifty. how are they holding up? thanks!

I would see a chiropractor or a physician, those people are pretty amazing in correcting joint problems

if you look for a good one they probably won't try to sell you drugs - most chiropractors just tell you how to adjust or fix it manually

I wouldn't be closed to the idea

Hi Roadrunner,

Have you done much research on training for a marathon? I have bad knees myself, and last year they were made much worse by overtraining! I increased my distance far too much one day, and was barely walking for a week thereafter! If you were running 5 miles 3x a week and then increased to 7miles, your joints were likely not ready for it. Take it easy! You should not increase by more than 10% on any given day, or 10% per week. From 5miles you should have only increased to 5.5miles, and in a week of running 15 miles you should only increase to 16.5 miles! Slowly you can train your body to increase! I know it's hard when you are strong and rearing to go cardiovascularly, but your joints may not be ready! This is common in those training with a goal in mind, to push themselves too hard, too quickly! One thing I have heard of to help with joint pain is MSM powder, which although some raw foodies promote, is not to my understanding raw. In the mean time, baby steps and gradual increases while get you to your goal of 10 miles!

Sunflower
Raw Food Chef and Writer
Comfortably Raw
[www.comfortablyraw.com]

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SWIM!! gentle gentle and makes you so strong.
>
>
> ricky, i gots a question for you too mister. how
> you makin' out with those five finger shoesies? i
> still want a pair, they look so beyond nifty. how
> are they holding up? thanks!
>
>


Hey CoCo...

Yeah, they were a huge disappointment for me, they are poorly designed when it comes to durability under pressure and while wearing them my feet got tougher but not enough for me to do the kind of high intensity training that I do, mine gave my feet more trouble than any athletic shoe out there, I had to train with severe blisters that I got from wearing the vibrams, in the end they caved in a split on me while I was training people at Doug Grahams health and fitness week and I ended up giving them away.

I think I fell in love with the whole concept/design and the idea of training as close to barefoot as naturally possible and I wanted to make them work so bad but after severe blister after severe blister and months of sore/beat up feet I had to conceed that they are only good for light trekking if that. I'm still looking for a minimal training shoe.

I wouldn't let my experience stop you from checking them out though, I train hard and you may not have the same use in mind.

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 06:08PM by richard blackman.

I feel bad that a member is put on the spot to answer a question for which he has never claimed to be an expert on.....

I think good shoes are important! My favorites were discontinued. I love running!

hey thanks for that terrific answer! i think i like them just for light trekking, that's when i would so love to be barefoot but broken glass and cigarette butts abound unfortunately. rather risk a shoe than me! plus i think they're so darn interesting looking, i would wear them for fashion 'cause i dress crazy like that, hee.

Can anyone point me to the link for the "Five Finger Shoosies Thing-A-Ma-Bob-Its" that coco mentioned??..They sound interesting..

As a note, it takes from 6 months to well over a year to develop the kind of callus on the soles of one's feet needed in order to be able to withstand walking & running around in the out-of-doors barefoot..

Unfortunately, for those of us that live in the so-called civilized portions of the planet, especially cities, there is so much broken glass & sharp bits of broken plastics & metal lying around; to preclude trying to develop this kind of callus while living in such areas..

Once developed, that thick (up to 3/4" callus will protect the bottoms & the sides of one's feet..The tops, however, are still vulnerable to sticks, stones, & anything else sharp enough to pierce the skin..

Bruce

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey thanks for that terrific answer! i think i
> like them just for light trekking, that's when i
> would so love to be barefoot but broken glass and
> cigarette butts abound unfortunately. rather risk
> a shoe than me! plus i think they're so darn
> interesting looking, i would wear them for fashion
> 'cause i dress crazy like that, hee.

In that case they are excellent!!!....I loved wearing them around the house or out shopping but as far as training in them day in, day out,they sucked.

Make sure you get the right size and have a blast....I remember wearing them shopping out in the country and a sales clerk nearly fainted in shock when she saw them, she just thought they were the best!!!

I still have a red pair that I'll wear for fun.

RB

RawSun,
this is exactly what happened! I was running 5 miles every other day then decided to go further in one day, I went about 7 miles is when my leg gave out, actually that day it was the tendon behind the knee on my left leg, lately it has been a dull pain in my knees! And youre right, too much too soon but hey I felt GREAT and just kept going but unfortunately my legs said,hey,enough today! So I am just increasing a little each run and stretching AFTER I run where before Id stretch before, plus the bicycle excercises are helping.
Brian ,
this is true, I overworked my legs, they werent ready for more than 5 miles!
UtopianLife,
I wasnt trying to put Richard on the spot, its just that F-1 is a monsta!!
If anyone knows training tecniques its F-1! Everything Im doing right now and since I went fruitarian is because of F-1 ! i watched all his videos on transitioning and the bodies blue print, all of them and its because of F-1 Im 100 % fruitarian and thats all there is to it. I think F-1 is a true representation of what were all doing!

BigG,
I rested for a week and iced it down, but I cant stay away from running too long you know, I love running!
I have some pretty expensive shoes too, New Balance, I switched to New balance from Nike Air because I felt they were more comfortable and lighter.

Coco,
Swimming is a great idea! Im currently trying to learn the butterfly, its hard to do!

ILive,
A chiropractor is a great idea! I havent been adjusted since I was 250 lbs, now 170.

Thanks for all the great replies!
Rob

roadrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> UtopianLife,
> I wasnt trying to put Richard on the spot, its
> just that F-1 is a monsta!!
> If anyone knows training tecniques its F-1!
> Everything Im doing right now and since I went
> fruitarian is because of F-1 ! i watched all his
> videos on transitioning and the bodies blue print,
> all of them and its because of F-1 Im 100 %
> fruitarian and thats all there is to it. I think
> F-1 is a true representation of what were all
> doing!
>

Hey Buddy...I didn't feel put on the spot at all....I just know that sports injuries/pains are another kettle of fish and nothing to be messed with. I speed walk for my cardio/endurance,it's much easier on the knees.

Thanks for your kind words man....hope all goes well with the running.

RB

here you go baltochef

[www.kayakshed.com]

You can also go here and go to the store locator!

[www.vibramfivefingers.com]

RB

Hey....road runner!

Have you checked out the new vids on my site?

go to www.shudupntrain.com

RB

roadrunner

i asked my friend who runs marathons and she said that u need to add the distance little by little by little

so the body can adjust slowly

increase stamina

she has run 7 marathons so far

one every year just about

when she first started out though

the most she could do was 3 miles

but she just increased it slowly and gradually

eeensy bitsy but REGULARLY

she trained every other day for months
before she ran her first marathon

and she is keeping it up

running every other day

she gets runner's high

but i agree with the others who say that u shouldn't run on injured knees

look into energetic medicine and healing techniques as well

not worth it to ruin your limbs like that

switch off to other things that require endurance and stamina

yoga is not as easy as it looks

go for that

til your knee strengthens
then you can go back to the love of your life : running

la_veronique,
I agree, thanks for the advice, Im currently doing this but I have little patience!
Youre right I just want to GO! but i am taking baby steps for the 10, the marathons start in may next year so i have time to progress slowly!
tell your friend i said thank you much!
Rob

Hey Richard,
Yea Im checkin out your new vids man sweet!
Where are your old ones, the ones on the blueprint,
transitioning,all those? nay sayers was another one.
I had them bookmarked but theyre gone!
I want my family to see all of your videos man!
They want to see them too!
Id like to have access to all your you tube videos if you dont mind!
Thanks man!
Rob

roadrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Richard,
> Yea Im checkin out your new vids man sweet!
> Where are your old ones, the ones on the
> blueprint,
> transitioning,all those? nay sayers was another
> one.
> I had them bookmarked but theyre gone!
> I want my family to see all of your videos man!
> They want to see them too!
> Id like to have access to all your you tube videos
> if you dont mind!
> Thanks man!
> Rob

Yeah...I would love to share but I had some issues with people copying my vids and passing the info/opinions off as theirs. It's not nice to see some wannabe raw guru with a big following spewing out your info/opinions and getting all the credit for it.

I deleted the old stuff and re-did a few of them in a different way...I'm thinking of doing one more vid on my opinions on raw food coaches. These days I just keep my mouth shut and let my results do the talking. I'm actually in the process of getting my info in order and putting a book together but that's way down the line. I'm not going to share so much in future, I learnt my lesson.

RB

Richard, have you experimented with foregoing shoes altogether for your activities? I'm at the point now where I'm able to do all of my running, hiking, weight training, climbing, etc without footwear of any kind, and it's been a tremendously liberating experience. It took time, but gradually my feet and soles became strong enough to handle just about anything. In fact I haven't really found anything that I don't do better barefoot than in shoes. I agree that the 5 finger shoes don't work well for serious long term fitness activities.
Even stuff like random broken glass, gravel, etc and so forth doesn't pose a problem anymore. It's taken about a year of pretty hard core foot training to get to this point but I'm never going back to shoes. It's too easy now to scale a stone wall with each toe molding to the rock to ever return. And running on trails, etc is ever so silent. I've found that about the only thing I need to watch out for is startling people when they don't hear me coming since my presence isn't foretold by the thump of shod feet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2008 09:17PM by doghouse reilly.

doghouse reilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard, have you experimented with foregoing
> shoes altogether for your activities? I'm at the
> point now where I'm able to do all of my running,
> hiking, weight training, climbing, etc without
> footwear of any kind, and it's been a tremendously
> liberating experience. It took time, but gradually
> my feet and soles became strong enough to handle
> just about anything. In fact I haven't really
> found anything that I don't do better barefoot
> than in shoes. I agree that the 5 finger shoes
> don't work well for serious long term fitness
> activities.
> Even stuff like random broken glass, gravel, etc
> and so forth doesn't pose a problem anymore. It's
> taken about a year of pretty hard core foot
> training to get to this point but I'm never going
> back to shoes. It's too easy now to scale a stone
> wall with each toe molding to the rock to ever
> return. And running on trails, etc is ever so
> silent. I've found that about the only thing I
> need to watch out for is startling people when
> they don't hear me coming since my presence isn't
> foretold by the thump of shod feet.

Yeah...your absolutely right, I envy you for getting to where you are with your feet, it really must feel so liberating, to tell you the truth I think that's why the five fingers were such a let down...they never allowed my feet to get real tough!

What stops me from going bare foot all the time is the grime/filth on the floor and all the glass, etc, not to mention stubbing my toes and I'm not sure if going barefoot actually appeals to me living and training where live, in a perfect world I would love to go barefoot but not where live/train.

I'm back to shoes now and I must admit, it sucks!!!

RB

I had concerns originally about stubbing my toes too. Much to my surprise, I haven't stubbed my toes a single time since ridding myself of the shoes. What I learned from this is that the reason we stub our toes is because we're completely unused to having them stick out, as normally they're encased in a firm protective layer of shoe. So we have no need for our brain to develop a mental image of where they are in relation to our bodies and our surroundings. Once we free them and began using them in our environment, our brain's picture of our body's position in the environment is modified and expanded to include our toes. Just as we don't tend to "stub" our fingers, there's really no danger of stubbing toes, even in an environment with lots of stuff going on, as long as we have allowed our mental map of the body to expand sufficiently to include the toes.

As for glass, I have walked miles and miles barefoot even in big cities like Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Frankfurt, Florence, London, etc, and have never injured myself with glass or otherwise. Interestingly, Frankfurt I would consider the broken glass capital of the world, and even there I was able to easily avoid injury. The soles of our feet become very abrasion and cut resistant, and even stepping on these pieces occasionally had no affect. Granted, I do desire to wash my feet after a long day of city walking, but really that holds true for natural outdoor walking as well.

Just food for thought, because it sounds like something you'd really enjoy. I encourage you to perhaps try it in situations where you feel comfortable, and you may find it easier than you anticipated. I find that my running speed has increased, and hiking and rock scrambling have become amazingly almost effortless. It's fun to see people's reactions because they really don't believe it's even possible when they see me zipping past them on a challenging and rocky hike. It definitely expands their minds to see that perhaps after all, our feet, like every other creature's, are made to perfectly support and carry us through life, even on challenging surfaces and hard ground, pavement, etc. If you think about it there is so much granite, thorns, strange seed pods, gravel, etc, out in nature that we simply have to be capable of dealing with. At least I have found that to be the case. In fact, running and sprinting on pavement or asphalt have turned out to be the most easy to adapt to. No longer do I feel any unpleasant pounding or jarring as I did when I wore shoes, rather I feel fleet of foot and light as I glide over the surface of the city.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2008 09:51PM by doghouse reilly.