so animal rights people are "crazy" you twice proclaim??? well, well komby fkin wosname, i was wondering when (as a newby here), i would soon get the opportunity to question, why most dedicated raw foodists i have encountered in 12 years or so on my version of raw vegan compassion, seem to, while not being directly cruel, they do appear to ignore the connection between care for their own health, and caring equally for the wellbeing of non-humyn life, (beyond some occasional fluffy welfarist proclamations).

when its the narrow quest for suppoesdly??? vital nutrients versus the lives of bees or chickens for say a coupla examples, then no-contest huh? for but two of these examples: shazzie the cacao evangelist is now supporting the incarceration, torture & murdering of chickens, by promoting the feeding of their embryos to humyn infants - see her recent mag., and wundermeister wolfe (and many other acolytes), rationalise sucking up bee food, with not a thought for the fact that nature designed this hard-toiled for nectar & "pollen" as being for bees, and toxic to humyns, as quite obviously are chicken embryos too. ahhhh, but they contain this "essential" micro-nutrient or co-enzyme some aspiring amateur pasteur posits...

...and as for the aajunus, antje and roman led inSTINKto raw health foodists (well ever smelled one?), trophy killing captive innocents in their cosy malibu & honduras prison compounds, well nuff said about "crazy" there right?

sure, sure, many animal and earth activists do not get the raw food message either, so we obviously have some bridge building ahead if there is any future for the species, but might we all be better served if compassion was universally embraced and applied, over pondering upon this nutrient or that less-than-super food?

i live with both, the compassion for ALL life crew, and, the eat raw for health camp, and i can assure you komby, calling us compassionate vegan activists "crazy" will not foster understanding of the raw side of life...watch out, you might get a hooded visitor after dark;o)

...and when you next define "crazy", take a look around at the raw zealots quoffing their spirapond scum and bee vomit smoothies!

yes - I rather took exception to the 'crazy animal rights people' comment too having spent many a long day supporting Viva and such like.

whhooo hooo sister flipperjan, yes!

to be honest, i am more sad than irritated that this seeming schism exists.

our fellow non-humyn beings and the earth cannot afford the luxury of debate, as we near the edge of the cliff..."fiddling while rome burns" comes to mind...

if/when more humyns employ both self, and universal compassion, then everyone on earth, and the planet itself might just have a chance for eventual health, happiness and harmony as nature/the universe ordained...

It's one of those logic loops...

Not all raw foodists are raw food VEGANS. Just like not all vegans are raw foodists. Some are both. Some may swear they never want to be both.

This forum is vegan, however. <3

Everyone is different, people learn at different angles and different ways. All you can do is be a shining example of what you believe (this board taught me that!), and when people are ready, they will put the pieces together.

For me, personally, raw has been a VERY spiritual journey that opened me up to waterfalls of universal-global-Gaian-pro-life sentiment I never had any idea could EXIST before (I used to think pro-life = bombing abortion clinics... it's funny how perspective can change. ).

Shazzie, for example, is approaching diet from what she considers to be a primarily health-seeking perspective. You don't have to agree with her. You don't have to adopt her viewpoints. But part of what makes the raw community so dynamic and intriguing is the fact that so many people get success physically, emotionally, spiritually, from so many different approaches.

Would I do *everything* Tonya Zavasta recommends? Do I have the discipline, the desire? HECK NO! But I love her newsletters!

I was vegan for 13 years (veg for 18) before I went raw. I saw it as a natural progression. Most raw food "experts" (i hate that word though) were either vegan first or identify with the compassion aspect of their diet. (Cousens, although he eats honey, Boutenko, Graham to name a few). I wish there were more bridges between the raw community and the animal rights community for sure, since i know a lot of people in either but hardly any in both.

Liberation, absolutely brilliant post.

I've wondered about that myself too some people that seem obsessed with there own health and proclaim they need animal products to sustain it, are missing the point imo that contributing toward harm and suffering to animals cannot bring health.

Some people still think animals are insignificant, and are just here to be used by humans, I am passionate about animals, I have learnt so much from animals. one of my favorite books in animals in translation using the mysteries of animal behaviour to decode autism, by temple grandin autistic professor of animal behaviour. I find it no surprise that many autistic people speak there first words when in the presence of animals or have an almost telepathic connection with animals that neurotypical people do not have.

I find it strange that compassion or love for animals is often looked down in some spiritual circles and now in raw food ones, as being flawed, but I feel it is flawed to not have compassion for them, and is in fact disconnected.

I first really got into raw foods after becoming vegan due to visitng a slaughter house as a part of a course I was on, I wept buckets for days. I then discovered raw food after that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 08:15AM by Ariel55.

liberation ... how is attacking someone to the point of dessimating their name (komby fkin wosname) here commpassionate either ? as much as i hear what your saying i would think you could at least have the maturity and commpasion to address someone properly ...

Kombaiyashii was not attacking YOU personally just stating an opinion .. maybe that is what he/she has experienced in their life

again i hear what you are saying about all the other raw foodies out there doing what theyre doing but dont see why your taking out your anger out on this one person here ...direct it at the people your pissed off at

this site is not some fluffy feel good site where everyone gets along all the time ..its moderated by one person and the discussions sometimes go off in all sorts of directions that some of us dont agree with ..but they are discusssions none the less



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 08:44AM by Jgunn.

im also kinda insulted that you assume *most* dedicated raw foodists have no commpassion .. as a *newbie* here maybe you should get to know some of us a bit better before tossing out such a broad proclomation

most of us think shazzie is nuts .. most of us think david wolfe is nuts .. type in honey in the search directory and see what *most* of us think of that ...type in antje an roman an see where that disccusion went

instead of bitching about the problems why not direct your obvious huge amount of energy into the solution .. as you say .. bridging the gap

or should i be worried about a dark hooded visitor now too ? if you dont want animal activists looked at as nuts maybe stop acting like one .. threatening someone isnt exactly sane or logical



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 09:02AM by Jgunn.

AND im gonna add for every f'd up leather shoe wearing .. egg eating pseudo vegetarian/vegan ive ever known in real life .. i have met 10 people HERE that are TRYING to convert to a raw vegan lifestyle .. LIFESTYLE .. NOT DIET .. so cut some of these folks some slack on their journey to learning and converting and compassion for their fellow creatures of this planet .. some of us do it overnight ..some of us take 5 years .. SO WHAT if we all end up in the same conclusion .. if their not doing it fast enough for you like or happiness TOO BAD .. heres a little bridge ..get over it !

if you want a perfect world then start with yourself and invite others to share in it .. experience it .. without fear of reproach or hostility (which are showing now) ... change starts within right? and radiates outwards? be a good example and nerture and show people the way



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 09:21AM by Jgunn.

When I said the "Crazy" remark...I was thinking about places where I could meet like minded people. I considered Animal Rights people amongst them. If I did not care for animal rights, I would not have considered them. Yet from my experiences (which might be limited) I've found these people to be extreme so while I likened their compassion to animals to my own, the way they go about it is different to mine.

Hope that clears things up.

jp gunn hello) alwite?,

btw, not angry at all these days, not really even that irritated, more temporarily sad as to the raw health vs. compassionate activism schism, and so yes...

one of the primary reasons i am enjoying my currently extended visit to britain, the country of my birth/ upbringing/ cultural immersion, (albeit that my mum is in ill-health), is the ability here, to see the funny, irreverent side, spot the giggle, take the piss - in oneself first, and others soon thereafter, which, in my experience, is singulary lacking in most occupants of the (dis)united police state of ameriKKKa where i usually reside (el-lay).

my post had a number of light moments, and the mashing of the person's precious alias was one such example. i intro myself as colin in the u.s., but over there it is often pronounced colon, so when someone asks again - many times, i say, "think of the lower intestine, and many people think i'm full of $#it too!"

irreverence is 'kin funny, and i am usually keeping it light and bright,

buttttttt, i do draw one line. i find it hard to see anything humourous in the unspeakable horror perpetrated by humyns beings upon non-humyn fellow beings, and yes, when k calls people "crazy" who with passion, compassionately act/speak out for the voiceless outside their species, and are villified, locked up by the instruments of social control, as i and many routinely have been, and for some, it's many years, give considerable time, effort and money to the cause, even go on (real) hunger strikes, (juice feasting or a fasting day here and there - HAH!), no, google "barry horne" for just one vibrant example...

so well..yes, i will always, wonder at those that fail to connect with their core compassionate nature, and to temper my irritation upon this occasion i was, yessss, a little irreverent with the person's name - no need to get your knickers in a twist kids...

sure, i get/speak/think/act, the "be a shining example" bit and mostly live by that gandhian axiom, but i will tend towards one side, IF it's compassion broadly considered vs. health narrowly advocated, because for me, compassion IS health, just more resonantly and universally applied,


ok, time to chill with a compassionate organic fruit n green smoothie!

...now you can all k'off!!!!






just jestin' people )))))

creating love, peace and LIBERATION for ALL life and the earth through positive personal choices and universal compassion.

c man )

sure no prob and fine and dandy but being passive agressive towards anyone here that is trying to do the same thing that we all trying to do is counter productive

instead of attacking / complaining / singling out someone here how about tossing out some solutions to the problem?

things may be irreverant to you but not everyone has a thick skin as you maybe?

just something to keep in mind

anyhow im gonna go suck on a plum an go to bed PEACE !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 10:05AM by Jgunn.

liberation Wrote:
>watch out, you might get a
> hooded visitor after dark;o)

This was a joke and I take it as such but it pretty much displays what I meant about the animal rights people that I have known who have been more serious. When people are like this and are serious I call them crazy because they try to build a movement on compassion but then want to terrorise the people that could put an end to it.

It is like how Bill Ayres destroying the student movement that kept the Vietnam war going. It did not stop because of terrorism. Terrorism helped prolong the war.

"humyns" brought a smile to my lips.

whoa. i didn't think i was going to say anything else on this topic and obviously this has nothing to do with raw food anymore, but, Kombaiyashii, your statements about 'terrorists' are too erroneous in my opinion to let be and without being challenged.

Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground did not destroy the student movement. They were a very small group of people that emerged out of a movement that was struggling (and failing) for many different reasons. Nor were those people terrorists. There is not one person that was hurt in any of their actions so to use the same word that other people to describe people who fly planes into buildings is very misleading. And, for good or bad, they had very little impact in either prolonging or shortening the Vietnam war. The main thing that prolonged the war was that the US doesn't like giving up easily. And similar things can be said about the animal rights movement.

Sorry to sound ranty, but I've studied social movements extensively and I feel that many people make incorrect assumptions about them frequently.

Point taken...I didn't think about the language I was using. However, a definition of a terrorist would be someone that strikes fear into others for political motivations. If a group were to kidnap a scientist, torture, brand and tattoo the guy to scare other scientists then this is terrorism. Or if you were to dig up their family pets and impail them in their garden then this is terrorism. You may think these people deserve this kind of treatment but the fact is that does nothing for your cause. If Palistinians desided to go the civil discourse route, they would be a lot further than if they went the suicide bomber route. Israel knows this, that's why they have been caught setting up these terrorists.

Bill Ayres was a terrorist though, I remember my dad coming home on nights where the IRA bombed the station he commutes from. Just because nobody died in those bombings, doesn't mean that it was not an act of terrorism. The term is highly politicised in the US now though but there's no other word I could really use.

The spelling in this thread is so .....either bad or purposely skewed that I have no clue what it's about, but I'll own up to being crazy.

If you want to talk about "animal rights" crazies, why don't you also consider how "crazy" it is that it's normal to kill living beings systematically, wherein the beings are brought to life merely to take that life for the pleasure of eating their flesh and secretions? If that's not "out there," then maybe you could shift your perspective a bit and not be so selfish and human-nistic. Just because humans built a sidewalk doesn't mean that land is now ours.

Jeez, I'm sorry okay!!!

Look at the quote for yourself, you'll see that it's taken completely out of context. I was saying I was thinking about meeting up with animal rights people because they have the same kinds of concerns that I do, yet I call them crazy for the way they go about it.

Yet it's spun to say that I am calling animal rights people crazy for being 'compassionate' over animals. Not what I said.

LOL, I'm sorry okay. I didn't think I was hitting such a sensative spot. I guess it's like calling a conspiracy theorist, a conspiracy theorist...

I am into animals rights but I may not be into hanging around animal rights people...

This is one of those threads where I dont get what the point is.

All I can say is that I have compassion for anyone who decides to eat raw in order to heal in any way,or to open up spiritual channels that I feel SAD blocks simply from the numbing effect of it.

Brian

me either brian ..

i was a bit Rabid on liberation last night and for that i apologize

but i still feel that singling someone out for an offhand comment instead of addressing the real issues from the original post a bit pointless

my 2 cents

Jgunn Wrote:
> but i still feel that singling someone out for an
> offhand comment instead of addressing the real
> issues from the original post a bit pointless
>
> my 2 cents


Hey it's okay. I think it's because I'm new to this that I sometimes don't know where sensative parts are and I open my mouth (or write stuff down on the keyboard) without thinking.

I've read quite a few posts talking about the controversy in this movement out of things like dun dun dun cocoa...If this kind of thing we are worried about, then I think we're doing pretty well...

I really like it when people speak their mind. It's much better than seeing newage affirmations all day. Through a debate, the best information comes to light.

Perhaps liberation has a good point...I am looking at Raw through the eye's of health and lesser on Animal Rights...I do obviously think animals should be free but I am seeing the animal rights aspect as more of a bonus. I'm way more into human rights at the moment because without these, animals won't have a chance for freedom.

The animal rights people should probably look at cointel pro and then judge to see if their movement has elements of that within it. Then try to divorse themselves from that cointel pro.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 11:48PM by Kombaiyashii.

this issue IS important, despite the disdain of some who would seemingly rather be wringing their hands over this micronutrient over another, because the question of universal compassion, IF answered and overcome, could help foster understanding between two groups that have much to potentially unify them towards facilitating positive change throughout the planet.

therefore, my feeling is that the central issue and question of the posting remains, and to reiterate, i just used k's "crazy" jibe to open up the discussion, so i encourage us to move on from that one, even though his(?) view of who the real purveyors of terror are, and where they reside, remains open to question for me.
whether one's heart is with gaza or tel-aviv for just one example, tends to be influenced by so much HIStorical bias, that i agree, another debate for another day perhaps...say's he, glancing down at a "free palestine" t-shirt, proudly worn under an "animal liberation" hoodie. none of us in our cosy, cushioned comfort knows how we might act after decades under say, the zionist jackboot, or at the bloody hands of the vivisector?, etc. etc....would we rise up against our oppressors as proud freedom fighters?

anyway back to raw compassion, or not...

sooooo, my considered view remains, that based upon a majority of, (not all), self-described raw-foodists i have met, read, and heard about, that health is the passion and focus; and yes they say, "of course we love animals", but, but, but oh so many qualifications tend to follow...and wow, the resistance i have encountered from this "community" around for just one example, respect for both bees and nature's plan, rather highlights my assertion. before i hear, "get off the bee thing", or "but they are bees", or it's "love honey", and "they are free to come and go", i wonder if such a rationale would be tolerated if the beings in question were our precious companion cats, dogs, or the "fluffy club" of dolphins, horses and elephants?

as an el-lay resident, i remain dismayed that two of the influential local raw chefs, messrs juliano and amsden, fiercely defend their selling of products of bee torture and murder, and the promotion of their establishments as being "compassionate", "ethical" and "vegan", and note that "vegan" has a clear dictionary definition, which is obviously being ignored. this is but one indicative example of self-serving ethics and ego, over compassion for ALL life.

again, the point of driving this point home, is actually to awaken us all, (including myself), from denial as to where the lines are drawn in what i would call, our "circles of compassion"; and ultimately to perhaps unite us as a shining energy for positive change, the power of which cannot be resisted...and then, perhaps we just might draw our species back from the precipice....

i know, i still wrestle every day with why i care for my mum versus your mum, or humyn life versus say a cockroach, or indeed, a bee versus a bird, rather than living in universal compassion with
A L L life and the earth, as nature ordained for us.

i am edging much closer to non-attachment in recent times by increasingly applying myself to the irresistible power of self-love and universal compassion, and yes, living and raw food does help move us along a simpler, kinder more universally congruent path, so a humble thank you to my fellow raw truth-seekers :O), however, we must unite and transcend perceived differences, and i sense that caring for nature and everything and everyone on the planet has potential to bring together vegan activists for both non-humyn beings and raw health fooders...IF we honestly address where our respective "circles of compassion" begin and end, and then lovingly extend............

pleasant dreams...

While I agree with everything you say Liberation I think that maybe you forget where some people are coming from and how far they may have travelled already. I am not refering to anyone on this board as I don't know you but as an example say

- A very overweight person, with blood pressure, diabetes etc. decides to try and look outside the doctors surgery for help - big step. they discover that diet might be to blame - wow. they tentitively step out off the hamster wheel along the path of discovery - huge step. all their friends and family think they are mad - difficult. At this point I think they are probably quite absorbed with 'self'especially if big changes both emotional and physical are taking place. Concern about animals I am sure will come along when there is a 'gap' in their mind - for most people at any rate.

I think there is a tendancy for people to get far too self absorbed as you point out - worrying about blue algae and so on but in a way it's not their fault. If you are new to raw food and not confident in your own decisions there is a lot of literature out there that bangs on about all that stuff ad nauseum. People are fearful, believe it and get sucked into that route.

The people that really make me mad are not the folk who are doing their best, listening and learning all the way but those who don't care.

I am astonished to hear what you say about the raw food restaraunts in L.A. They should be a shining light for raw fooders but don't you think that when a profit line is at stake principles go out of the window.

Sorry if I've rambled on a bit - just my thoughts after following this thread.

I really wish harmony to everyone

yes, you are quite right flipperjan...start to help someone by first acknowledging where they are...

when on the street doing "vegan outreach" towards passing cadaver/secretion consumers, rotting skin wearers, ("tested" drug users etc. etc., (exactly where i was not sooo long ago), i always find the most effective entry point to be their "knife and fork choices". then if they implement quick, easy, simple, convenient veggie to vegan diet changes, they will see a rapid win, win, win result...for their health, the health of the planet, and all of it's inhabitants)

many of them soon get it, and in checking back with people i have encountered, as i am always out connecting/chatting with people whatever/wherever, the rest of the anthropocentric hurdles follow...dairy, fur, "leather", zoos, circuses, fishing/hunting, wool, honey, "sport", insect killing etc....and a wonderfully compassionate momentum often gathers pace...

which is WHY i am puzzled that having come through the diet door, many raw foodists seem to have become myopic and fail to recognize that compassion towards all life, and a raw vegan diet are interconnected, and so potentially powerful on a global level. think : sustainable living as a natural extention of a compassionate, simple raw/vegan way of life, and then we will really have something!)

(and yes, flipperjan, when there is a commercial factor and ego, as with the el-lay raw restaurants who ignore the definition of "vegan", integrity is often diluted.)

sure flipperjan, the really closed minded/closed hearted are leaving the heaviest footprint right now, and yes, arguably they should be our focus, and indeed, they are mine with my constant "vegan outreach"; but it does not stop me expecting an advanced level of awareness from those who are already embracing raw food.

aaahhhh "expectation", it trips us up soooo very often....so before i am in danger of becoming the central character in trollope's tale of disintegrating woe, "he knew he was right", i will gracefully express my thanks, move on and listen for a while...flowing onward, and upward, i sincerely appreciate everyone who has contributed to my question, as to the degrees of universally applied compassion in our raw food "movement", and i love you all, and particularly, thank you for your insight, flipperjan, kombaiyashii, ariel55, jgunn, annex, utopian life, phantom, supersaurus:O), wherever we all are in deciding where our respective "circle of compassion" currently extends...

You've also got the people who look into nature for their diet...If you look at our closest animal relatives, they eat bugs and insects...Perhaps these would be part of our ancestral diet as well. If so then that opens a new type of ethics since the dilema of 'eating our natural ancestral diet' vs 'not hurting one living organism' arises. If one eats our natural ancestral diet, would he then be unethical?

I think right now raw food has not been tested or refined nearly enough. Perhaps we are missing something in our diets which will lead to ill health over longer periods of time. If so then would we be worse people if we weren't bringing up offspring as healthily as possible over not harming what may be our natural diet. There's no way to tell...

I say each to their own. There are way worse people in the world, rockefellers and rothschilds for instance.

You know - there are two kinds of vegetarians - scientific and moral ~__~
Scientific vegetarians may occasionally eat meat to validate their reality -__-
Moral vegetarians never eat anything that contains any animal byproducts -__-
I'm a 100% vegan, vegetarian because unless mortally threatened—morally - , -
I cannot cause unnecessary suffering 4 my personal pleasure and continue my --->
Quest for Compassion, Love and Harmony with my Higher Self - at the same time -__-
Exercise strengthens my body -__- Study develops my mind -__- Meditation ^ _ ^
(Stilling my mind and focusing on God's pure love) empowers my Spirit ~__~
Meditation helps me resist temptation .,. And make the decisions !__!
Necessary to improve my good health and happy well being °__°

Alkaline AL

I think Kombaiyashii just made an interesting and important point about raising children. I'd suggest that the nutrition concern for raw vegan children might be best addressed by making sure that their raw food diet meets all the conventional nutritional needs, including B12. That can be done by learning how to read nutrition charts and by summing up the nutrient percents to at least get a general sense that needs are being met. Vegan B12 supplements are available.

On animal compassion, I think Liberation expressed that some people do develop a stronger sense of animal compassion after becoming vegan. That's been true in my own case, so I agree that it happens, and I think it's a very good thing. But I really have a lot of respect for vegans who start out being vegan BECAUSE they've already developed that compassion. I believe they will be more committed to vegan from the start. My husband was like that, and I think his level of commitment was influencial for me.

It does seem unfortunate that so-called "vegans" would sell bee products. Has anyone considered the possibility of hanging out for a while in front of the restaurant(s) with a sign saying, "Bees are animals too" or "honey is not vegan". Or "Honk if you like bees". Or "This restaurant is not vegan". And then handing out brochures that include a true definition of the word. And the more people willing to do it, the merrier. Might get some kind of result.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2008 08:25PM by suncloud.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It does seem unfortunate that so-called "vegans"
> would sell bee products. Has anyone considered
> the possibility of hanging out for a while in
> front of the restaurant(s) with a sign saying,
> "Bees are animals too" or "honey is not vegan".
> Or "Honk if you like bees". Or "This restaurant
> is not vegan". And then handing out brochures
> that include a true definition of the word. And
> the more people willing to do it, the merrier.
> Might get some kind of result.


I agree with your other points but I would feel sorry for the owner of the place...A more productive thing might be to make a list of financial crimes of the international banks with links to documents and videos and then post them through peoples doors...If I saw picketing of a vegitarian restaurant for selling honey, I'd probably think of them as cointel pro. Not only are you hurting the guys business but your also making a fool out of your movement by coming across as 'crazy.' This will probably only delay change.

I think prioritise would be the best word...Sort out the biggest crimes and then build a movement on negatives. In other words, what people don't want (because everyone can agree on that) whereas a movement on things that people want (positives) will forever be debated.

if bees were the size of cows, they would get it immediately i am sure, so hey suncloud), yes, local protests can be very effective, though i am already high-profile with santa monica police having been arrested for previous peaceful demos and actions, so i prefer a variety of other tactics, eg. expose their contradictions in front of other customers at the counter every time we go in. i was successful appealing to leaf cuisine (3 local raw/vegan restaurants) who have dropped all products of bee torture and murder. thank boss rod at his website.

now everyone, feel free to prick the ego, hubris and denial of rawvolution bosses matt amsden and janabai, and juliano's raw boss juliano and partner ariel at their restaurants:

rawvolution: 1 800 9976 RAW

julianos raw : rawjuliano@yahoo.com and rawariel@gmail.com

love and liberation,
c

with regard to the big culprits, the biggest are the toxic "food" corporations, so raw/vegan comrades, hit 'em where it hurts...in their brimming pockets by encouraging the public to "go vegan" en masse! so easy if we have the numbers, and highly effective literature is waiting for you in bulk for a small donation, or free if you are destitute, at veganoutreach.org for u.s. people. (in the uk, viva has their version too.)

we have already handed out tens of thousands, and it is SOOOO uplifting when people regularly return smiling, and gush, "you have changed my life" and suchlike :O)))))

consider the unspeakably horrific facts about the "food" corps.:

no. 1 murderer of our fellow non-humyn beings - 1 million deaths per hour in the u.s. alone 24/7.

no. 1 polluter on the planet, by far.

no. 1 poisoner of humyns via diet.


get out there and play your vital part in the solution, raw comrades))))