Where do you get your B12?

I was wondering if you could actually eat the culture of the Kombucha fungus? That would be natural, I dunno about vegan

I have also heard that some b12 supplements aren't very bioavailible...How do you know the difference?

Kombaiyashii,

There is a quite frenetic thread on this elsewhere, with many links to studies. Please take some time to read through it; lots of valuable stuff. I take seaweed and dried mushrooms, but apparently, am a ticking timebomb for Bell's Palsy. . . Good raw sources are [traditionally] considered to be: organ meats, eggs, raw dairy, common seaweeds, soybeans, alfalfa, bladderwrack(Thalli or Fucus vesiculosis; a type of medicinal,rather than food, seaweed--may be polluted with mercury and is difficult to find raw) and hops. Good luck.

this was a decent article posted by Rawgosia ..i cant find the original thread tho sorry :/ and there is some stuff written by Bryan about that I cant find either ... the search engine doesnt seem to like short word searches or its gimmped up again ..

Posted by: rawgosia (IP Logged)
Date: July 23, 2006 04:38PM


An intersting (and very long ) article that I once read (unfortunately available only in cache):

"VITAMIN B12: ACHILLES' HEEL OF VEGANISM?

Since our nutrients that we use normally come in complete packages, and our bodies require them in that form, it is the case that nutritional deficiencies never occur alone. B12 is part of the B-vitamin complex, and is found wherever those vitamins are found. Our bodies have low needs for b12. Our stomach secretes Intrinsic Factor which is required to join with b12 for absorption purposes lower down in the intestines where it is normally produced by bacteria in our guts. When we are not entirely healthy and our stomach’s function is compromised we may have troubles creating enough Intrinsic Factor (IF) for b12 absorption. Acids in the stomach can inhibit the secretion of IF as well. Of course, IF is also dependent on other substances produced within the body, and if these are lacking, then it may show up as a b12 problem as well.

The solution, of course, is to resolve the underlying habits that give rise to the metabolism problems that predispose oneself to the symptoms supposedly associated with b12 lack. To correctly diagnose oneself as b12 deficient, one would have to test our systems for their abilities to properly digest, absorb, and assimilate b12, and we would have to determine and eliminate as possibilities all those other shortages and bodily conditions that predispose a person to not being able to use b12 within themselves. Very few people in the country bother to do this, yet they are quick to agree that they have b12 deficiencies if it so suits them.

By and large, a person who goes onto a raw food diet will often experience many difficult changes in their body, many of which are aggravated by the continuance in such simple bad habits as overeating, eating frozen foods, eating spices, miscombining foods, drinking stimulative substances such as coffee and teas and alcohol from time to time, eating too many dried foods, binging, and many others. On top of this, the body will have difficulties obtaining enough nutrients at first from raw foods due to the low concentration of nutrients in raw foods and the protective membranes the body has built up in various locations of the body (such as in the intestines, stomach, blood vessels) that were necessary when the person ate predominantly of over-rich and concentrated cooked foods, with all their high levels of toxic matter. It takes time for a body to reassert normalcy of function.

In going raw, many people have to acknowledge this compromised state of their bodies by eating a transition diet that does not so drastically change the conditions under which their body has adapted itself to get its needed nutrients from the food it is given. So some people will still eat a bit of meat from time to time, others will continue eating some cooked starches, others steamed veggies. Over time, as these people slowly improve their overall health, and as they persevere in steadily improving their diet, they will find that they can free themselves from all poor eating habits, which includes the eating of meat and dairy. It is the case that meat eaters are the main ones diagnosed as having b12 "deficiencies". B12 is needed in only extremely low doses by the body, measured in less than micrograms, and it’s very easy for us to store reserves that can last us for years.

It is not at all obvious from your descriptions of what you were doing that b12 was your problem. There are so many things to consider, some of which I already mentioned above, and more of which include the amount of time one has been raw, how much one follows other healthy habits in their life (such as getting adequate sleep, sunshine, fresh air, water, etc), how many years one has eaten a cooked food diet, the predominance of various types of foods in their former diet, what other types of supplements one takes, what types of drugs one takes if they do, the type of other ingredients that are in supplements containing b12, the amount of exercise one gets, and many more. Sometimes it just takes a little perseverance to allow a body to get over a certain stage of adjustment, and the problems sort themselves out on their own. This may or not be the case with you.

As is always the case, it is sometimes best to proceed cautiously, while ever slowly striving for improvement and this, as others suggested, may be the best thing for you in terms of your diet. I would not be in any great rush to blame your symptoms on a b12 deficiency when it has not yet been adequately shown that other factors were not responsible for your problems. To do so would be to lay blame where it is not due, which leads to misleading conclusions about causes symptoms. It is only wise to conclude that something is true, such as b12 deficiency, when all other factors have been considered and eliminated as causes.

There are innumerable substances that have not yet been isolated in foods due to their low concentrations in foods, especially raw foods, and to the difficulty in developing techniques to isolate them. There are no doubt many substances in our foods that our bodies have very little need for, even less need than for b12, and so these substances will undoubtedly occur in minute quantities in our foods and in our selves. There have been no tests conducted to determine the effects of so-called deficiencies of these substances and how the levels of these unknown substances relate to the b12 and other nutrient issues.

For this reason and the others addressed, plus others that I haven't discussed here, it is wiser to say, if one has not properly addressed all the considerations that would allow a true determination of b12 deficiency, that one DOES NOT KNOW the true or complete reason for their symptoms, symptoms which may or may not be consistent with a true vitamin b12 deficiency (if that can be determined), instead of just assuming they are correct in concluding it was a b12 issue.

In reply, in general, to testing for b12 and other substances, I offer the following observations, and possible conclusions.

The current tests that are supposed to establish b12 deficiency are incapable of establishing b12 deficiency because the tests are not conducted in a wholly scientific manner. Of all the common and popular b12 tests that are currently used, there is not one that can fully and truly establish, on its own or in its conjunction with other popular tests, the presence of a b12 deficiency. Specifically, these tests are often for substances that can't (such as certain b12 analogues), or that can't be used on their own (any b12 substance), to establish a b12 deficiency. Thusly, if one uses the tests to determine whether they have a b12 deficiency, they will be making a mistake.

To determine whether a person has a b12 deficiency, a scientific experiment would have to be designed. This experiment would necessarily have to include a series of tests consisting of many different types of tests carried out over a period of time, such as a week or a month, and the results would have to be exposed to critical scrutiny or cross-examination to be sure the entire experiment and its actual result was: 1. really capable of indicating a b12 deficiency at all, and 2. whether, if it could do this, could it do it in any one particular individual with all his/her unique habits, indulgences, and predispositions.

Of the commonly used tests for b12 deficiency that are currently used by the medical belief system and other delusional and self-promoting interests, none are capable of showing clearly and undoubtedly that the person given the test has a b12 deficiency. The tests used are individual tests, not groups of tests, and are not carried out over periods of time. The tests only test for one particular item that the users of the test BELIEVE might indicate a b12 deficiency. These tests are then sold to us by their unscientific promoters as TRULY indicating a b12 deficiency, and as scientific (just because they were using a test), when in reality the tests are not scientific (they do not follow well-established rules and procedures of scientific discovery).

People who commonly use these tests do not understand the scientific process. Subsequently, most, if not all, everyday people, including even a large majority of so-called scientific experts, are not capable of determining what a scientific process is or how it is that only a correct scientific process, (which includes as ONE part of it a series of various time-based well-run tests), could establish any idea as true, such as a vitamin b12 deficiency causing someone’s symptoms. Thusly, these people are EASILY lead into making false assumptions and drawing false conclusions and thereby blaming something that was not conclusively shown to be the cause of their problem. This means, that in the b12 case, if they decided to blame b12 and then use b12 supplements, they will have just been "conned" (con being the abbreviation of confidence) into paying a con-artist ( a con-artist is someone who displays a talent at using fear, uncertainty, conniving, persuasion, common gullibility of people, doubt, confusion, illusion, deceit, speciousness, charisma, pomp, and other tools of the advertising industry to convince others that the con-artists unsubstantiated BELIEFS are meritorious or valid) some money for a dubious product that more than likely just adds to the person’s overall problems, particularly in the long term.

To make recommendations to others, based on the results of misunderstood, inaccurate, and thereby misleading b12 "tests", is pure foolishness. The tests are founded in neglect of the wholeness on which life is based. As a consequence, they will have little or no meaning in the search for wholeness, or health. One might as well as recommend that a person consult a crystal ball gazer, and based on the ball gazer's wisdumb, assume that they have a b12 deficiency and therefore take b12 supplements. Even if the b12 user claims health improvement (as much as improvement is often a subjective term), this still does not mean the b12 supplement was really needed or that the person had a b12 deficiency.

An alcoholic could test himself by taking a supplement of alcohol pills, feel positively better as a result, and then claim it was because of an alcohol deficiency that he felt such terrible symptoms after a day of not drinking, due to the "positive" results of his "test". As we can see, this is not a scientific-based test. Many, many more tests, of huge variety, taken over a period of time, and which would be given great scrutiny, would be needed to be conducted by the biased alcoholic to understand how alcohol played a roll in his problems, and so on, in order to substantiate any claim that his original problems were legitimately due to an alcohol "deficiency". Of course, a person who is grounded in correct principles in physiology can easily conclude alcohol is a source of the original problem; however, it is SADLY the case, that in regards to vitamin b12, practically NO ONE is well grounded enough in physiology or biology to be able to make any conclusions about the b12 issue other than that the issue of b12 is a mystery to them. People who use mysteries to determine their actions are behaving VERY foolishly.

A person who makes conclusions and follows them up with recommendations is wise to choose from sources of information or knowledge that are rational, sensible, accurate, and truthful. Current b-12 tests are inadequate in scope and concept and thereby do not reveal themselves as adequate sources; as such, one can only conclude and recommend that b12 testing be ignored by less than deeply and truthfully informed scientifically conscious health seekers.

Any "test" for b12 deficiency MUST ADDRESS and RESOLVE the following important issues, among others:

1. what TYPE or TYPES {TYPES(S)}, of the various types of b12, is used or are used by the body?
2. Is the particular body under investigation able to DIGEST the TYPE(S) of b12?
3. Is the particular body under investigation able to ABSORB through the various digestive, protective, and other cellular membranes of the body, these TYPE(S) of b12?
4. Is the particular body under investigation able to ASSIMILATE in its cells (ie, use in its chemical processes) these TYPE(S) of b12?
5. What TYPE(S) of b12 are in the person's blood stream, urine, lymph, and other tissues and are these TYPE(S) being excreted as normal wastes or are they actually being used beneficially?
6. Are excreted b12 TYPE(S) indicative of the wrongful nature of the b12 TYPE(S) or of the body's inability to USE the b12 TYPE(S), if these TYPE(S) have been determined to be USEABLE TYPE(S)?
7. What are the normal LEVELS (or quantities and concentrations) of ALL b12 TYPES in a truly HEALTHY person?
8. What is the normal RANGE (or VARIANCE) of ALL b12 levels in a truly HEALTHY person from hour to hour, day to day, week to week?
9. What are all the OTHER NUTRIENTS that are needed to work in conjunction with the correct types of b12 in order for them to be used?
10. What are the normal LEVELS and RANGES of other nutrients in the body that are required for correct b12 metabolism?
11. How does Wholeness, Ripeness, Fullness, Completeness of Food forms affect digestion, absorption, and assimilation of b12 in the body?
12. What SUBSTANCES, especially commonly eaten or absorbed substances, INTERFERE with, OVERBURDEN, or otherwise COMPROMISE, or the body's b12 metabolism.
13. What other common or less common PRACTICES or ACTIVITIES interfere with, overburden, or otherwise compromise a body's b12 metabolism?
14. IF b12 deficiency can be established in a human, what are the SYMPTOMS that are SPECIFIC to and ONLY specific to this deficiency?
15. IF b12 deficiency can be established in a human, what are the SYMPTOMS that are GENERAL to this deficiency (meaning what OTHER deficiencies or problems share these general symptoms)?

Endless other questions could be posed, yet even from the short list above one can deduce that it is terribly difficult to establish what a b12 deficiency is or how it comes to be, let alone what its symptoms are. This complicated process would involve subjective and objective factors in each individual case, as the testing system, assuming it was truly accurate in all cases, was applied to the individual. The testing system itself would be difficult to establish as giving anything other than probabilities, due the infinite complexity of the human body and the added dimensions of the infinite external activities and influences that can affect the human body. Many, many, many tests and a whole lot of subjective analysis would be required. And the end result would only be a probability. No one would know for sure, even after all that effort. For instance, there could be other elements, as yet undiscovered by science, missing from the person's body or diet that contribute to the problems.

If b12 is missing from a diet, the only truthful, irrefutable, and logical conclusion that can be made is that the diet and other lifestyle factors are not whole. In regards to diet, our bodies are whole organisms that require food in its whole form so that they can get wholy what they need from foods. That is, we need to get not just ALL the parts that make up our natural foods, but to be completely healthy for the long term, we need to get ALL those parts ALL TOGETHER at once, WHOLY TOGETHER, in WHOLE form, FULLY and NATURALLY BALANCED, so that WE ourselves may remain that way as we bring the food into us. As Nature doesn't provide us with b12 trees, vitamin A bunnies, protein popsicles, glucose bushes, magnesium plants, or tri-glyceride turnips, we don't need to pursue individual elements, and its unwise and harmful to do so. Pursuing b12 from a testing perspective is pursuing health from an unwhole perspective and can only lead to unwholeness in the long run.

The b12 tests of today are predominantly all SINGLE tests of ONE simple little aspect of just ONE of the questions asked above. These tests are thus COMPLETELY unscientific and are absolutely INCAPABLE of allowing anyone to make any kind of judgment on whether the person subjected to the test is b12 deficient or not. The tests, whether one or two together, have just as much, and probably MORE, ability in determining whether SANTA CLAUS exists or not. The individual tests are inherently useless as anything other than a part of a complete and proper scientific investigation, which in itself would be necessarily incomplete because not all known nutrients have been discovered yet. As individual or even combined tests, they can only be used by profit motivated con-artists to manipulate the actions of a fear-based, misinformed, gullible, and therefore highly susceptible public.

It is astute to note that ALL supplement programs must address similar questions as posed above, and since they, like the b12 tests, DO NOT, their unscientific and false natures are demonstrated as clearly as the FALSE nature of the common b12 testing programs used to determine b12 deficiency.

Our current economic system is largely driven by the commercial prostitutionalizaton of science. The scientific process has been misused and abused by self-interested parties seeking to gain personal fortunes instead of truth. Truth has been waylaid, and that is why those parties that push illogical testing programs and supplements in general are always opposed to complete scientific inquiry. They make extra-ordinary claims that can't be backed up by truthful science, and when those that are more truth-motivated complain, these pill pushers and test touters, instead of opening their claims up to scientific ( rational, unbiased, critical, orderly, well documented and supported) inspection, proceed to create SPIN by accusing their "attackers" of being ignorant, unwhole in approach, "scientific", and so on.

It is truly amazing what the impostors of truth do. In their condemnable practice, they use small elements of the scientific process, such as individual or combined "tests" here and there, in order to pass their pursuits onto the unknowing and gullible public as "scientific" procedures and unjustifiably claim the legitimacy that comes with all respected truly scientific endeavor. But when true scientific investigation comes knocking and reveals the wide open holes in their foolish claims, they choose to accuse their "attackers" of "denying" science or nature, or they claim that "science" doesn't know everything, etc., etc.

By their reckoning, then, one can only assume that ONLY these profit-motivated and self-interested persons, who most apparently have no regard for rational and critical inspection, ARE the ones who DO know everything. All WE have to do is take THEIR word for it. Suspiciously, their gains are immediate, often financial, while our (dubious) gain "will be coming in the future" as the spinners unerringly point out. That's what the spin process comes down to. Deception for the purposes of their immediate gain, and our immediate loss of money, with interest to be paid in the future via loss of health, freedom, more money, and more gullible mindlessness.

Again, when the error of the spinner's ways is pointed out, instead of answering all the questions and providing sensible explanations, they throw accusations, insinuations, guilt trips, fear traps, and other verbal abuse into the face of the inquirer. They NEVER answer the full line of questions that would provide for rational conclusions. Of course, rational conclusions would end their profit making and other self-serving industries, and so we recognize their game. They are not truth seekers. If they were truth seekers, they would have nothing to lose but all to gain --- the TRUTH. The truth is the most beautiful intellectual delight in the world, for it benefits most maximally not only the seeker, but ALL fellow beings and other lifeforms on the planet, and the planet itself, and for that reason all truth-seekers look first for truth before they look for personal profit. This distinguishes them from those that seek first personal benefit before truthful exposition, such as confidence men, sworn believers, and other self-interested parties.

Tests induce fear when they are handled unwisely. Fear leads to irrational behaviors, one of which is to follow expert "scientific" testers who by using the tests they promote admit they don't have a fundamental understanding of wholeness, or health. A person who has great fears of being b12 deficient, to assuage their fears, has many cheap options to choose beyond taking dubious expensive supplements or tests, as listed in my previous posts. One can even go to the extreme of eating meat or dairy. At least its natural. Whole foods are best.

To make conclusions on what a simple test says is to make conclusions on what Santa said. How about making conclusions from what we already know to be true and from what makes darn good sense. And then how about following practices that are harmonious with what nature used to get us and all the other millions of species here in the first place. Surely we can conclude that it was pretty good what she did and we don't have to meddle around with her. Let's use our brains to recognize the accord of nature, instead of using our brains to falsely believe nature got it wrong. After all, we are a part of nature. Nature wouldn't provide us (itself) a brain to use against itself. We have a brain because it was useful for us, so let’s continue to use it useful, in accord with nature. Just because there are a lot of people using their brain against themselves doesn't mean that it is correct or good to do that. We can still all use our brains in a sensible, life-inspiring, and successful manner, of which nature is all about.

Let's use our brains to think sensible and rational thoughts consistent WITH nature, instead of AGAINST nature, and let's practice doing this in order to create HABITUAL RATIONAL THINKING, so that we create a habitual rational thought process, or MIND, that consistently operates in a manner truly the best for us and that properly represents us and, so, in thus doing, will unerringly lead us back to realize, understand, and thus CONNECT with who we REALLY are --- NATURE!--- and thereby FEEL ourselves as we REALLY are---- NATURAL!"

Thanks Jgunn...I actually have raw ewes milk in very small quanities every day...however, I was thinking of going all vegan.

I am thinking that perhaps a safe but still highly vegan idea would be to stock up on b12 and then go vegan for a while and then restock...

Still, the article mentioned that he previously talked about other ways to derive b12...Are their any vegan ones?

What about my Kombucha idea?

[Are their any vegan ones? ]

Yes, all natural B12 is produced by bacteria and that is almost all of it except for the traces produced in labs completely synthetically, I write traces because it's extremely expensive and inefficient compared to what bacteria can do.

Bacteria are not animals, they are in an entirely different domain. Thus almost all, essentially all, B12 is vegan.

Methylcobalamin is arguably the best source but cyanocobalamin works, too.

Kombaiyashii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Jgunn...I actually have raw ewes milk in
> very small quanities every day...however, I was
> thinking of going all vegan.
>
I am not sure how effective this is as from what i understand .. any oral b12 cant be utilized by the body anyways ..or hardly utilized

... because its produced in a healthy digestive system ..taking supplements in food or pills is pretty much useless

anyways thats my understanding of how b12 works

i took B shots for years on and off and quite honestly dont feel any worse for where then when i stopped them about 12 months ago .. guess will wait and see

The best (and ONLY) reliable sources for vegan B12 are:

1. a vegan B12 supplement (preferably methylcobalamin, not cyanocobalamin)

2. your own feces (if you don't consider that to be an animal product).

I prefer the first option.

Read up. Check references for all B12 articles (They may be listed within the article or after the article), and don't believe claims that this or that vegan food is a reliable B12 source, if the claims come without a reliable reference.

Go to www.vegansociety.com for their comprehensive articles on B12.

Check "Vitamin B12 Importance", by Gabriel Cousens.

I suggest that you do the research with an open mind and try to put any preconceived personal ideology aside. Don't just go with what appears to be the "IN" thing. Do the right thing for your health.

But if you prefer to experiment, at least be aware of deficiency symptoms - although these could be too little too late.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2008 10:59PM by suncloud.

Its interesting that you list #2 because that would indicate that the human body manufactures B12. If it wasn't in the food going in how else could it be in the feces coming out ?

EZ rider,

Definitely common sense would indicate that, or that the human body manufactures it.

But those researchers who have studied B12 extensively claim that human B12 is manufactured in an area of the colon that's too far down for sufficient quantities to be absorbed. (Read Gabriel Cousen's article, "Vitamin B12 Importance", or articles from the 60-year old Vegan Society, www.vegansociety.com)

Long-term Vegans who don't supplement with B12 are consistently found to be deficient.

For myself, a long time ago, I logically determined that if B12 came from animals, then I must make my own since I'm an animal. Probably most people think that.

I went 15 years as 100% vegan, with no B12 source or supplement. I ate a lot of spirulina, (because I liked it). But I started getting the classic (very uncomfortable) tingling in my hands and feet, indicating the beginning symptoms of nerve damage.

Luckily I was aware of symptoms of B12 deficiency, so I began taking supplements. It took a month for the symptoms to leave, and they've never returned. I'm now 22 years vegan (close to 100% raw during those years, always raw now). B12 is still the only supplement I regularly take.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2008 11:17PM by suncloud.

AFAIK, there is no vegan source.

Rabbits (who are true biological vegans) eat their own sh!t for B12.

Me, I take a pill (even though I'm not 100% vegan, couldn't hurt to be safe). I don't take one every day, maybe about once a month.

Doug Graham gets shots of B12, IIRC, but I don't like needles.

Communitybuilder,

Good for you for taking the supplement!

My understanding is that the methylcobalamin in Vegan B12 supplements is a specific type of bacteria.

Bacteria aren't animals.

I agree with Arugula above: "Bacteria are not animals. They are in an entirely different domain."

EZ rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its interesting that you list #2 because that
> would indicate that the human body manufactures
> B12. If it wasn't in the food going in how else
> could it be in the feces coming out ?

It isn't manufactured by the human body. It is
manufactured by bacteria that live in the large
intestine. But almost all nutrient uptake occurs
before the large intestine, in the small intestine.
This is why we can run out if we don't replenish
our supplies--because we can't absorb what is
manufactured in our bodies. At least, that's the
way it works for most people tested.

We are hotels for bacteria. There are 10 times
as many bacteria cells in the human body as human
cells, approximately 10^14 versus 10^13.

..here's something on Primates and B12..

"... it is not known how nonhuman primates, consuming only plant material, obtain this vitamin, but it is possible that vitamin B12 is synthesized by microorganisms in the gastrointestinal tract (Uphill et al., 1977). Primates that practice coprophagy may obtain vitamin B12 from ingested feces (Oxnard, 1989). Little is known about the biologic availability of vitamin B12 in natural food ingredients (Baker, 1995). Supplemental vitamin B12 is usually added to animal feeds as cyanocobalamin..."

[books.nap.edu]

Chimpanzees are known for eating termites, a source of B12.

My B12 comes in tablet form..

I have heard that different bacteria feed on different food sources. I have also heard that the friendly bacteria that live in the gut feed on raw foods and that the unfriendly bacteria thrive on meat and dairy. That makes me wonder if a person eating raw foods for a long time would have a much larger population of B12 producing bacteria and therefore produce enough B12 to sustain themselves ?

[I have also heard that the friendly bacteria that live in the gut feed on raw foods and that the unfriendly bacteria thrive on meat and dairy.]

Yes.

[hat makes me wonder if a person eating raw foods for a long time would have a much larger population of B12 producing bacteria and therefore produce enough B12 to sustain themselves ]

I don't think so because both the aerobic bacteria (friendly) and anaerobic (nonfriendly) produce B12.

But I don't know about the actual levels present, if one type produces more than the other, etc.

Interesting that "the friendly bacteria that live in the gut feed on raw foods and that the unfriendly bacteria thrive on meat and dairy."

But I don't think "a person eating raw foods for a long time would ....produce enough B12 to sustain themselves."

There's still the problem that the B12 is produced where it's not absorbed.

And of course I'm just one person, but it didn't work for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2008 06:43AM by suncloud.

I've always heard that hydroxcobalamin is more effective B12 supplement not methylcobalamin because most b 12 deficiencies are to do with lack of intrisic factor and hydroxocobalamin can be absorbed by those people with lack of intrinsic factor. Methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin cannot.

Some additional info on B 12 here [www.rawfoodexplained.com]

It seems as though B12 is not an animal product then but a bacterial one.

I guess the logical question from here is that are there any other nutrients created by bacteria which cannot be synthasised in the body?

They can also produce riboflavin, B6, and K2.

Are those found in plants?

Kombaiyashi, yes, you can get these from plants.

Ariel55, uptake is not a problem if you get the droplets or a chewable tablet and let it dissolve or absorb through your mucus menbranes under your tongue. This way you can bypass the GI tract and still have good uptake.